• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows

Status
Not open for further replies.
Toa TAK said:
I guess we're locked in an eternal battle.

As Kaiju.
Click to expand...

Nah, I've got a better idea.

3606511-pacific-rim-jaeger-gypsy-danger-hd-wallpapers.jpg
 
Veelk said:
If you just mean that she violently ended a war...

Look, I feel in the whole "Oh, korra is a hotheaded thug" thing, we've kind of forgotten the reason that it's bad.

I'm not opposed to an avatar (especially one that isn't Aang) using violence as a means to resolve a conflict. The situation with Kuvira, if Korra had gone out and tried to reason with her using actual reasons, and especially if Kuvira couldn't provide good reasons for why she was doing this except out of pure hatred for Suyin or whatever, then I would have absolutely no problem with Korra shrugging and saying "Well, I tried." before going Avatar state on the whole army. But the Kuvira situation is just badly written because we don't have much reason for why she's doing what she's doing.

Compare this to Kyoshi's sitaution. First off, we don't know much about Kyoshi's character, but in every portrayal we see her, she's calm and collected. When Aang contacted her about Ozai, she simply said that he must do his duty as the avatar. That's what Kyoshi is characterized by, her commitment to doing her duty as the avatar. She does not seem inclined towards violence. Meanwhile, Chin is portrayed as a stereotypical tyrant that's trying to conquer the earth kingdom and even wants the avatar to bow to him. He's just a generic bad guy. Could their be more details to their encounter than we know of? Of course, we only get a brief summary of the event from Kyoshi.

But given that this is TLA, where we usually have well written and justified conflicts between groups of people, given Kyoshi's general demeanor, and given the brief characterization of Chin, I'm not sure I see a reason for why I should object to Kyoshi doing what she did. It's not like she intended Chin to even die. She just decided that his conquest was not right, so she moved Kyoshi offland so that he couldn't conquer it. Chin died because he fell off while this was being done. She didn't really care that she killed him and considered it for the best, so whatever.

Compared this to Korra in the past. Her immediate reaction to every conflict was to beat it down with violence. She saw the world as very simple. She was a good guy, they were bad guys. Beating them up is not just what she's supposed to do, but it's something she loves doing. She loved fighting and violence. The reason Amon is as much of a failure as she was is that Korra never cared about the equalist conflict. She was just looking for a villain, and Tenzin would be the one to handle all the boring sociological stuff about if nonbenders are being treated fairly or not. Same with Unalaq, she only cared about learning about spirituality insofar as she needed to kick Spirit ass. It was especially obvious in the finale where she just choose to keep the spirit portal open. She didn't give any reasons for why she thought it was a good idea, it was more of a "Hey, why not" sort of thing. And the show goes along with her line of thinking. Meaning, when Korra doesn't give any thought to the equalist conflict or decides that keeping the portal open on a whim is a good idea, the writers do the same. That's why no one calls Korra out on her inconsideration. That's why no one asks "Hey, korra, WHY do you think it's a good idea to keep it open?"

And then came Zaheer. He was one step forward, two steps back. Before she met Zaheer in the spirit world, she was completely ready to throw down with him as soon as she heard he was an enemy. THat's all Korra needed to know. But then they talked in the spirit world, and he gave her his reasons for why he was doing what he was doing. At that point, Korra had to step back, because she couldn't classify him as just Baddy McBadguy at that moment. And it would have been great in the writers pursued this, but they instead opted to focus on Zaheer's viciousness. His team attack Korra while she's resting, and he is willing to hurt the air nomads, including children. And then he explains he is personally going to kill her. Even if his philosophical leanings might have a point, the position he puts Korra and the others in don't really leave any breathing room for moral ambiguity to flourish. So, aside from that ONE MOMENT in the spirit world where Korra makes a pathetic attempt at resolving this through talk (mostly because she isn't good at that stuff), he's essentially Baddy McBadguy even if he might have something worth while to say.

So then we finally come to present day. Korra is trying to do things diplomatically. These posts explain why it doesn't work pretty thoroughly.

So where am I going with all this? The reason that Korra is a bad avatar isn't that she's violent. It's that she's just....stupid, and her default inclination happens to be violence. If it happened to be evasiveness (like Aang) it'd be just as bad. What seperates Aang and Korra is not their personal inclinations, it's their (and by extension, the writers) ability to reflect on the world. In the first two seasons, Korra just sees herself as a good guy without giving any thought to the larger sociological/political/moral/spiritual issues at play. As far as she's concerned, she's just the weapon that puts down anything that threatens whoever she sees as the good guys, which is usually based on their associations with her. That's how Tarlok and Unalaq convinced her to join them. "Hey, we can teach you new ways to fight" and that's enough for her to become their agent. She had the opportunity to grow in season 3, but that the way the situations were written didn't allow her to grow by reflecting on the moral questions that Zaheer presented. You can't ask someone to honestly debate the merits of your philosophical position when you have a gun to the heads of their friends and family. And now we have Kuvira. Yeah, Korra wants to be reflective now, and try to see the moral complexities of the situation, but this fails because the writers can't seem to write intelligent polticial debate. There are potential points that could be raised. I suggested them myself. But Korra doesn't bring them up. Suyin doesn't bring them up. Kuvira doesn't bring them up. No one brings them up, presumably because the writers haven't thought of them, or else I don't know why they wouldn't include them.

Of course, I have to emphasize: Korra being stupid is a symptom of the SHOW being stupid. I don't know who headed writing for TLA, but whoever it was was intelligent enough to understand the various political and moral implications that situations like that held. Whoever is writing Korra...don't. They just don't. They've definitely heard the complaints. They know moral reflection is something Korra needs to do, but they don't know how moral reflection itself works. So we get the epic confrontation with Kuvira that goes "Uh...you should stop this because it's wrong for....reasons. " "you know, I had to make a lot of hard choices in the past. Hard choices I am not going to specify or explain in any way." "Still...back off?" "You and I are a lot alike, Korra." "Yeah, because we both fight....like pretty much every other main character on this show" "Right, therefore go talk to Suyin to get her to back down. I won't do anything while you have your back turned. Pinky swear. " "kay".

This isn't anything like Roku or Kyoshi. With Kyoshi, we don't get a lot of details. It may very well be that the situation was much more complex than what we got, and it may be that Kyoshi acted wrongly, but based on what we did get, Kyoshi's actions were are well justified on both a character level and thinking level. With Roku, it was a mistake to let Sozin live, but he had good reasons to let it go at the time, and Sozin only did what he did as a split second decision DECADES down the line. There's no way Roku could have predicted that would happen and all the moral implications of having done it are well defined in the minds of the writers because even the characters debate this. This just isn't the case with LoK. The writers here get an idea that has potential for a lot of moral conflict, but they never do anything with it. That's what makes Legend of Korra so much lesser than TLA. That's what makes Korra an idiot in the face of Aang. The characters have to be able to reflect on the world around them in deep ways, and the writers just seem incapable of that. Had TLA been written by these guys, we'd have the same issues, just in a different way.
Click to expand...

This also makes some of your points without resorting to the "LoK is stupid" adjectives:

how_did_book_3_change_korra____a_thought_comic_by_neodusk-d84aocj.jpg


And while I agree that so far, Kuvira's motivations and the political debate hasn't been greatly discussed or expanded upong in the show, or told to my liking and yours in a way I personally would find fulfilling, It's not completely ineffective as you make it out to be with your adjectives. People who've watched the show with me, not major ATLA fans but fans of other shows like GoT, House of Cards, etc., are impressed by LoK political content, for an animated show. I still see hints in the show and writing that the political debate will be expanded upon. I was glad they showed the darker side of Kuvira and we'll probably see the camps, just so we actually feel like Kuvira is the real villain. You concentrate too much on small exposition conversations between the main characters, like Korra's small talk with Kuvira.

I very much doubt that is all we'll get as far as political debate, mostly because all Kuvira and Korra agreed to was for more time for Suyin to respond, that is all. Korra wasn't exactly convinced that Kuvira is in the right, but she was willing to not totally oppose her in that instant. That scene wasn't meant to be the big philosophical debate you think we're missing. The entire Book is that debate.

But, whatever, I don't disagree that much with you, of course, but I still think you should hold out on some criticism until the season ends.
 
Joeytj said:
And while I agree that so far, Kuvira's motivations and the political debate hasn't been greatly discussed or expanded upong in the show, or told to my liking and yours in a way I personally would find fulfilling, It's not completely ineffective as you make it out to be with your adjectives. People who've watched the show with me, not major ATLA fans but fans of other shows like GoT, House of Cards, etc., are impressed by LoK political content, for an animated show. I still see hints in the show and writing that the political debate will be expanded upon. I was glad they showed the darker side of Kuvira and we'll probably see the camps, just so we actually feel like Kuvira is the real villain. You concentrate too much on small exposition conversations between the main characters, like Korra's small talk with Kuvira.

I very much doubt that is all we'll get as far as political debate, mostly because all Kuvira and Korra agreed to was for more time for Suyin to respond, that is all. Korra wasn't exactly convinced that Kuvira is in the right, but she was willing to not totally oppose her in that instant. That scene wasn't meant to be the big philosophical debate you think we're missing. The entire Book is that debate.

But, whatever, I don't disagree that much with you, of course, but I still think you should hold out on some criticism until the season ends.
Click to expand...

I call this stupid because the simple fact is there is no content to be discussed. Kuvira wants to unite the earth kingdom because Zaheer left it in chaos. Okay, we got that.

The villages seemed to be doing alright when we saw them and it is Kuvira who staged the bandit attack, but no one seems to have realized this yet, so lets say as far as Korra knows, Kuvira was doing them a favor by putting them under their rule. However, no one can pretend Zaofu is under a similar threat of anarchy. It is still a peaceful city state that has taken no aggressions against Kuvira or her policies.

So, knowing all that, Kuvira's reasoning for why she wants to take Zaofu is....? Nothing. The show gives us nothing. There are potential answers Kuvira can give based on political standing or personal feelings or a number of things, but none of them have made themselves present. "I am conquering Zaofu because _______." No one at present can fulfill that blank right now.

So Korra wants to debate this...but without Kuvira giving some kind of content, there is nothing to debate. That's where the stupidity part comes in, not speficially to Korra, but the show as a whole. Because if they actually had reasons why Kuvira is doing this, this WOULD be where they enter in. Korra, like Kuvira, asserts that it's wrong to invade it, but we don't really know why. Are invasions in general bad? Or is there a specific reason it's wrong to invade Zaofu in particular?

Debates happen when we try to support some kind of assertion with reasoning. But all that's happening is Kuvira says A, Korra says B, then some nonsequitors like "i've had to make tough decisions" or "We are a lot alike" that don't have any relevance to the invasion of Zaofu. Or atleast Korra would draw attention to the fact taht she has no reason to invade Zaofu. If nothing else, she would make some kind of argument why invading Zaofu is wrong. She doesn't, she just says "don't do it." And then Korra leaves to try to convince Suyin of....something, I don't even know what.

And I can't imagine why they would withhold that very vital information. I honestly can't think of any context in which it would make sense for Korra and Kuvira to act that way if they had actual reasons they could have offered for their arguments. Joey, I wish it were otherwise, but I think you're just giving the writers too much credit here.


AAs for the comic you mention, I agree with it except that it's more proposing how Korra could be written to be more complex than she actually is. Book 3's protection of the new air nation lasted a few episodes, but not that many and didn't leave any lasting change on her character. I don't necesssarily disagree with the conclusion, but it's worded in such a way that implies that Korra is actually a complex character like Aang except in a bad light. Well, yeah, that's what bad writing is. By that logic, there is no such thing as a bad character so much as a badly portrayed character. Which can be true, i suppose, but it doesn't change the fact that Korra is badly written all the same, and therefore more or less the same thing as a bad character.
 
Veelk said:
I call this stupid because the simple fact is there is no content to be discussed. Kuvira wants to unite the earth kingdom because Zaheer left it in chaos. Okay, we got that.


So, knowing all that, Kuvira's reasoning for why she wants to take Zaofu is....? Nothing. The show gives us nothing. There are potential answers Kuvira can give based on political standing or personal feelings or a number of things, but none of them have made themselves present. "I am conquering Zaofu because _______." No one at present can fulfill that blank right now.
Click to expand...

That's not the definition of stupid, last time I checked.

And look, she's conquering Zaofu because Kuvira wants all or nothing now, like she said in the premier episode "I won't celebrate until the entire Kingdom is united." Why she transformed he role of protector of states and stabilizer to uniter, what made her power hungry? We still haven't exactly, word for word in the dialogue, found out, but the battle of Zaofu is most likely meant to show precisely why Kuvira's reasoning will also run it's limits. Although, most fans and watchers already know sufficient history to understand that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And that's it.

It's also meant to be self evident. We, the audience and fans, know that Kuvira's excuse of protection under her rule doesn't apply to Zaofu. Suyin, Korra and the Airbenders don't need to say that. It's meant to be obvious that Kuvira's excuses don't apply to Zaofu and that her motivations are much more tyrannical now. We've been told since Book 3 that Zaofu "is the safest city in the world", and I'm starting to see why the writers made such a big deal out of it. It was to show both how Suyin's own hubris and ideology would be her downfall, but also show later on why Kuvira's power will go too far since Zaofu doesn't need her protection, and Kuvira's official reasons to dominate it fall flat. The characters also show they understand this. Along the way, Kuvira's mission was distorted from stabilizer to "great uniter" becoming obsessed with it. Bryke have indeed said the entire Book will show how Korra and Kuvira are similar but "became" different in the end, and Kuvira's motivations will also be expanded upon.

But that also doesn't make the show stupid, or Korra stupid.

It would've been cool to have more episodes and more seasons of exploring Kuvira's psychology, but that's not exactly LoK's raison d'être with these shorts seasons. It could be better, of course, and I still believe we need more action in order to forgive some of the ordinary writing in some episodes, but, meh.
 
This is BS, for a number of reasons. For one, young or old, they need to establish basic motivations for characters for anyone to have a clue what they're doing and why. Children are not so stupid that they can't comprehend these things.
Click to expand...

My girlfriend's daughter is in third grade, has the best grades in her class, takes enrichment classes because of her outstanding reading ability, and I'm pretty sure she would struggle with what you expect in terms of political debate.

As a perfect example, she just finished Harry Potter and was unable to understand exactly why Snape was a heroic figure.

As for the plot of LoK right now, both of our daughters, my girlfriend's and mine, understand that Kuvira is the bad guy, but I can guarantee they have no idea how ominous a "re-education camp" is.

It's not that children are "stupid", a word I detest as both a parent and teacher. It's that they are ignorant, in the classic non-slang sense.
 
This doesn't have to be super difficult. A normal child would be able to understand that someone is doing something wrong for the right reasons, that there is not one path to a goal like happiness and stability and everything has advantages and disadvantages. Kuvira could be demonstrated as genuinely well intended, but going to put society as a big entity over the needs of individuals.
 
Hamlet said:
Speaking of shipping got this result from the shipping machine.

Pairing: Toa TAK x Hiroshi Sato
Tags: Bending, Ahegao, Irrumatio
Location: Zaofu
Click to expand...

I don't know what's worse, an old man. Or someone in a wheelchair...

Pairing: Toa TAK x Katara (adult) x Tarrlok x Opal x Korra (Wheelchair)
Tags: Bending, Femdom, Bending
Location: Cave
 
i got this.

Pairing: Toa TAK x Guru Laghima x Mechanist x Vaatu
Tags: Netori, Dirty, Shibari, Kemonomimi, Tsundere
Location: Boiling Rock

What.

&
Pairing: Sokka (young) x DreamDrop x Korra
Tags: Femdom, Water
Location: Harbor

Jesus..
 
hi guys... sorry if this has been asked before.

is there some streaming service with the full seasons so far?... I just watched Avatar: Last Airbender on LATAM Netflix a couple of months ago, and I'm very interested in watching Korra, but it isn't there.

I have Hulu Plus, but it only hast the last 5 episodes or something like that.
 
zruben said:
hi guys... sorry if this has been asked before.

is there some streaming service with the full seasons so far?... I just watched Avatar: Last Airbender on LATAM Netflix a couple of months ago, and I'm very interested in watching Korra, but it isn't there.

I have Hulu Plus, but it only hast the last 5 episodes or something like that.
Click to expand...

Ah you just missed it as Nick had the complete series up on its website for a couple of weeks.
Still got these other options with Amazon, Itunes and Google play as they have all the episodes.
Pretty sure you can also get it off the PSN store and the Xbox store in certain regions
 
Complete summary from the recent Bryke OldScratch interview.

David asks what is left to be done on the episodes. There’s 1 and a half episode’s worth of animation to come back. Second to last episode is about to be scored. David goes, “That’s gotta be bittesweet?” and Bryan’s like, “Na, I just wanna finish. I want to go to sleep.”
Click to expand...

David has a bit more ADR. His producer goes, “You have to bring me in one day.” David says he’d be surprised how secretive the recording sessions are. Bryan jokes that THEY care about it being secret, but Nickelodeon doesn’t. “They leak stuff all the time. Not on purpose.” David mentions leaking something a while ago and Bryan’s like, “I remember.”
Click to expand...

More in the link.
 
So, I've just finished both Book 2 and 3 in the last week.

I can see why Book 2 has the reputation it has - particularly in the first half. I can also see why Beginnings has the reputation it has.

Book 3? Okay, wow. Just...wow.
 
TrueBlue said:
So, I've just finished both Book 2 and 3 in the last week.

I can see why Book 2 has the reputation it has - particularly in the first half. I can also see why Beginnings has the reputation it has.

Book 3? Okay, wow. Just...wow/
Click to expand...

Book 2's finale was awesome, right?
 
TrueBlue said:
So, I've just finished both Book 2 and 3 in the last week.

I can see why Book 2 has the reputation it has - particularly in the first half. I can also see why Beginnings has the reputation it has.

Book 3? Okay, wow. Just...wow/
Click to expand...

What about book 3?

beginnings is also overrated, slightly

i hate the term overrated

so im probably jk deep down
 
Toa TAK said:
Book 2's finale was awesome, right?
Click to expand...

Eh, it was mostly dumb fun. Really dumb fun. I think the Jinora asspull was the bit that made me raise my eyebrow most of all.

Icyflamez96 said:
What about book 3?

beginnings is also overrated, slightly

i hate the term overrated

so im probably jk deep down
Click to expand...

Book 3 is fantastic. I can imagine it was what a lot of people were hoping for when the series was first announced. I won't go into too much detail until Book 4 finishes, but I'd probably put LoK Book 3 over at least one of the ATLA Books, I just dunno which one yet.

Beginnings is also not overrated, it's rated just fine. :P
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

The Legend of Korra and Last Airbender Sequel First Look
News 
11
1K
lifa-cobex replied
‘Avatar’ Sequel Series ‘Seven Havens’ Ordered at Nickelodeon, Set After ‘Legend of Korra’
News 
33
2K
Lambogenie replied
I need your opinions... I'm writing a book
34
210
DeafTourette replied
Soul legend of RDR2 fame D'Angelo dead at 51
1
310
Toots replied
Afroman. The myth, the legend
NSFW Drama Event 
32
451
Mr Reasonable replied
Top Bottom