RoninChaos
Member
This show would be fantastic if it didn't follow the CWs need for bitchy melodrama. It gets REALLY old.
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ARROW Season 3 |OT| Welcome to the New Age
- Thread starter Clevinger
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You a cop?
Brainiac 8
Member
Nope, I like and prefer the no kill rule.
BronsonLee
Member
Felicity Smoak: Manager of The Hardy Boyz
Plasticine
Member
No kill rule is stupid. It works in the comics because Ollie actually has a personality.
Doesn't work in the show because he's literally Batman lite. From being a huge dick to everyone that cares about him to the "omg this person has killed a hundred trillion people, I can't kill him because he wins"
or in Arrow's case, "Sara wouldn't want this...despite Sara leaving because she was tired of the no-kill rule"
Doesn't work in the show because he's literally Batman lite. From being a huge dick to everyone that cares about him to the "omg this person has killed a hundred trillion people, I can't kill him because he wins"
or in Arrow's case, "Sara wouldn't want this...despite Sara leaving because she was tired of the no-kill rule"
Pollux
Member
Exactly. And in the "real world" not the comic world the rule doesn't work. In the comics batman is just as fucking guilty as the joker IMO because every time joker gets out Batman has the chance to save lives when he finally stops him again. We all know he's going to escape.
Why are you seeking the fault with Batman and not the justice system that allows the Joker to just plead insanity instead of getting into a real jail?
because these guys decided to take up the mantle of providing justice since the justice system is incompetent/corrupt
Meanwhile they're just as incompetent/corrupt
Septimus Prime
Member
I think the problem with killing is this: he either ends up killing every villain and running out of interesting foils, or he continuously fails to kill villains and ends up looking incompetent.
I suppose there's a third possibility of clones and lazarus pits and him just killing no-name street level guys, but all of those are pretty silly options.
I suppose there's a third possibility of clones and lazarus pits and him just killing no-name street level guys, but all of those are pretty silly options.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Batman is unrealistic; film at 11.
StopMakingSense
Member
Eh, Ollie was basically a serial killer in the first season.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I felt the first season was actually the strongest mostly because of it. Ollie had a legitimate reason to distance himself from those he cared about and criminals had a legitimate reason to fear him. I thought it was especially interesting how Sgt. Chest Hair was starting bend to his way of thinking then it was all undone in the second season for reasons.
It's just boring now. All his enemies go on about how he doesn't stand a chance because he's unwilling to kill whilst they are willing to kill him and as Rex said the line about how the assassin wouldn't want him to kill a man who killed thousands was utterly ridiculous.
Jest Chillin
Member
Just because Sara was in the League doesn't mean she'd want Ollie to kill every baddie he came across. Just the same that once Ollie finds out that Thea has been trained by Malcom, he still won't want her putting her life at risk.
Not everyone wants their loved ones making the same choices that they made. Particularly if those choices were questionable ones.
Not everyone wants their loved ones making the same choices that they made. Particularly if those choices were questionable ones.
or kill some and don't kill some. Have him have the intent of killing someone like Slade/Merlin/Ra's but to make them look good, have them make it out of most situations.
For people like that shitty Komodo or Vertigo #6? Let them die. That way you build him up as someone who can kill and is actually quite good at it. When Merlin catches his arrow and tells Ollie he aint shit, it also builds up Merlin to be a real threat.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Another thing is that it seems as though Ollie's fighting methods have not evolved much since he adopted the no kill rule. To me his methods have to be better and smarter if he wants to stick by that rule . I know its a limited budget TV show, but I would like to see some development into Ollies' crime fighting methods. Nowadays he just seems to wander into a scene and fights his way out of it. Like when he said to laurel he will catch Malcolm...I was like "how?" Overall Malcolm is still arguably the better fighter. I would love to see how Ollie changes his approach.
Another irony about the no kill thing is that it's meant to inspite heroism for the Arrow with Starling City - but so far this season has steered farther away from inspiring good for the city and instead throws its chips on the Sara murder mystery.
Another irony about the no kill thing is that it's meant to inspite heroism for the Arrow with Starling City - but so far this season has steered farther away from inspiring good for the city and instead throws its chips on the Sara murder mystery.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Maybe his no kill policy forces him to start relying on more and more gadgets to fuck up the baddies instead of killing him with his bare hands.
trying to catch up to this season and for some reason...im struggling. Im just not feeling it, and I loved seasons 1 and 2. In fact, after season 2 and especially Flash, I thought / hoped we would be getting towards more actual super hero stuff, but the show seems hellbent on reverting back to season 1 "realism"... I hate how these shows seem "ashamed" of their origins, havent the Marvel movies proven that people are fine with colors and super heroes? Hell, hasnt Flash, which is destroying this on ratings?
I mean, great... Sarah gets offed by arrows, another Archer. And whats that, Komodo...another dark Archer? how original... are Green Arrow's rogue gallery really that bad that its just a bunch of people with bows?
Oh and spekaing of the Green in Green Arrow, I still hate that its just Arrow, especially now that Roy is walking around in a red costume. I mean, not even a joke that one should be Red Arrow and the other Green Arrow?
I dunno man, this season is just not doing it for me. Oh and Laurel is really bothering me now, and the funny thing is, she didnt used to, I didnt get the hate she got but now I do, shes unbearable (and I loved s Ruby in SN)
I mean, great... Sarah gets offed by arrows, another Archer. And whats that, Komodo...another dark Archer? how original... are Green Arrow's rogue gallery really that bad that its just a bunch of people with bows?
Oh and spekaing of the Green in Green Arrow, I still hate that its just Arrow, especially now that Roy is walking around in a red costume. I mean, not even a joke that one should be Red Arrow and the other Green Arrow?
I dunno man, this season is just not doing it for me. Oh and Laurel is really bothering me now, and the funny thing is, she didnt used to, I didnt get the hate she got but now I do, shes unbearable (and I loved s Ruby in SN)
Jest Chillin
Member
Arrow has always been Batman with a Bow, so similar to Batman, the colors are always going to be dark and the majority of the action at night.
Yes his Rogue Gallery is that bad and it's indeed loaded with enemy archers. Which is why they're borrowing other Rogues.
As for the "Green" aspect. I guess it's just a style choice from the producers.
Have you seen the latest episode? The first few episodes lacked focus but the latest one ties it all together and sets the arc for the whole season.
And yes, Green Arrow's rogues gallery is a lot of guys with bows. Just a quick browse of Wikipedia brings up...
Komodo
Merlyn
The Acrobat
The Rainbow Archer
The Ape Archer
The Archer from Mars
Archie the Archer (is this for real)
Beau Brummel
Black Arrow
"Counterfeit" Carson
The Crimson Archer (they are just choosing colours I swear)
GAMA the Mechanical Archer
The Iron Archer
John Centaur
Lord Kalesque
Pete Lomax
Signalman (The Blue Bowman)
Karpo
All of whom are specialist archers or have used a bow and arrow at some point.
only eps 1 and 2, like I said, trying to catch up. And that rogue gallery IS shit, good lord. Well at least they are getting that right >_>
I really wish they'd up the gadgets and arsenal in the show, isn't one of the biggest gimmicks of Green Arrow that he has a bunch of different arrows that does different stuff? It just feels like they're not playing up the superhero aspect of the show enough and are just turning it into a conversational drama, probably to save on budget.
Jest Chillin
Member
They've dabbled in the trick arrows but iirc, he's mostly used them on low level grunt types. I'm not exactly sure why they don't use gadget arrows more often. Could be budget. Could be logistics. Could be just about anything really.
I think it's that it's budget, it looks like they're choosing to spend it on filming in more exotic locales and possibly hiring more actors/extras for larger scenes near the end of the season in order to target the non-comic fan demographics rather than cater towards people who are interested in superhero shows. It's kinda disappointing because this is looking to become another Smallville.
How did the first few episodes lack focus?
Episode 1 ends with Sara's death. 2 is about Sara. 3 goes to Corto Maltese for Thea, which connects to Malcolm. Then 4 is about Sara and Malcolm.
Think there's a pretty clear plot thread running through every episode so far.
If anything, I thought season 2 was pretty all over the place until its last handful of episodes. There was a clear direction to the island flashbacks, but the present-day story kept veering off into different tangents like they were trying to check off doing as many characters as possible.
Episode 1 ends with Sara's death. 2 is about Sara. 3 goes to Corto Maltese for Thea, which connects to Malcolm. Then 4 is about Sara and Malcolm.
Think there's a pretty clear plot thread running through every episode so far.
If anything, I thought season 2 was pretty all over the place until its last handful of episodes. There was a clear direction to the island flashbacks, but the present-day story kept veering off into different tangents like they were trying to check off doing as many characters as possible.
Karak
Member
For sure. But who knows. Now everyone in the entire show will be a superhero so hey at least there will be a reason he can't kill everyone. Its becoming laughable now sadly.
Sadly we did lose our other watchers cause they are bored though. Down to 3 from 35 people. Sad
Yeah, I don't really get it. Ollie already beats the tar out of rooms full of baddies with ease. It's kind of boring at this point. The introduction of superpowers was a nice escalation and threat to him. And since every major character except Chesthair is becoming a street-level vigilante, it'd be cool to see how this group of no-powered superheros deals with these types of threats.
People say no superpowers helps differentiate Arrow and The Flash, but the two shows' tones and aesthetics are so different that it's not a problem whatsoever.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I considered Oliver's "no killing" rule to be more flexible and he did still kill in season 2 a couple times so it's still not as ridiculous as Batman's, I can see the reasoning behind not offing Slade but Malcolm... Really?
Slade fucked with his family constantly. Killed his mom. Tried to kill him (in a CW x Comic book fashion) and this is just off the top of my head.
What possible reason is there to not kill him? He killed his mom...in front of him.
It's kinda funny how at the end of the season Ollie's like, "Thank you Slade for teaching me not to kill" or whatever.
What he should have said was, "Thank you Slade for teaching me to kill. If I killed your ass when I captured you instead of giving you to the cops I'd still have a mother, my sister wouldn't be having a mental breakdown, I'd still have my company, and a ton of people would still be alive."
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Spitting some cold truth there.
Batman's rule makes more sense than people give it credit for, especially in comics where killing a character is essentially as effective as putting them in prison.
Arrows rule has never made sense. First off, it's based on Tommy's reaction being disgust at his friend being a killer, which itself wasn't that strong considering he didn't bother reporting Ollie to the police even at the time he hated him most. It was later reinforced by the Hoods, who were all "WE LEARNED IT FROM YOU, ARROWDAD!", because apparently a bunch of clearly unstable people wouldn't have killed if he didn't. From there, Ollie has clung to the rule mostly as a way of maintaining the idea that he is a hero and not just a vigilante out for vengeance.
The confrontation with Merlyn is still nonsensical even if you include that though. You don't want to kill him? Fine, just imprison him. He's sure to escape? According to who? Him? Because he is always a reliable fountain of truth. And Nyssa, whose howling for his blood out of blind rage. All he really knows is that he was trained by the league of assassins and he doesn't know the secrets of their ways except whatever he learned from Sara (which doesn't seem much, he was more interested in sexing her), and she certainly didn't seem like there was no way to imprison her. There's really no foundation to the belief that there is no prison in the world that can hold Merlyn. And if he's really that concerned, just break his arms and legs and tie him up hannibal lector style. I mean, why not? He's already imprisoning slade and others without due process and playing judge jury and warden on his ass, and if he really is that dangerous, he might as well just cripple him. I don't care how badass he is, he's not running anywhere if he has each leg broken in 4 different places or picking any locks if his fingers are shattered. For some weird reason, they're trying to paint a false dichonomy that Ollie can only either let him go scott free or kill him right there.
Arrows rule has never made sense. First off, it's based on Tommy's reaction being disgust at his friend being a killer, which itself wasn't that strong considering he didn't bother reporting Ollie to the police even at the time he hated him most. It was later reinforced by the Hoods, who were all "WE LEARNED IT FROM YOU, ARROWDAD!", because apparently a bunch of clearly unstable people wouldn't have killed if he didn't. From there, Ollie has clung to the rule mostly as a way of maintaining the idea that he is a hero and not just a vigilante out for vengeance.
The confrontation with Merlyn is still nonsensical even if you include that though. You don't want to kill him? Fine, just imprison him. He's sure to escape? According to who? Him? Because he is always a reliable fountain of truth. And Nyssa, whose howling for his blood out of blind rage. All he really knows is that he was trained by the league of assassins and he doesn't know the secrets of their ways except whatever he learned from Sara (which doesn't seem much, he was more interested in sexing her), and she certainly didn't seem like there was no way to imprison her. There's really no foundation to the belief that there is no prison in the world that can hold Merlyn. And if he's really that concerned, just break his arms and legs and tie him up hannibal lector style. I mean, why not? He's already imprisoning slade and others without due process and playing judge jury and warden on his ass, and if he really is that dangerous, he might as well just cripple him. I don't care how badass he is, he's not running anywhere if he has each leg broken in 4 different places or picking any locks if his fingers are shattered. For some weird reason, they're trying to paint a false dichonomy that Ollie can only either let him go scott free or kill him right there.
I want to see an all archer super villain team made up of these guys.
Archie the Archer. Classic.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Meh, probably more my making up an excuse for it since the writers failed to convey in a convincing fashion as to why he wouldn't kill Slade in the end even though twice in one episode he did try to kill him once by grabbing an ice pick (I think it was an ice pick) and the second with wanting Diggle to snipe him.
I think in the end it came to Oliver proving to himself that he could stop Slade and the restraint to do it without killing him all the shit that happened which would've been a lot easier even with the Mirakuru.
Cornballer
Member
- EW interview with Emily Bett Rickards about tomorrow's episode *some spoilers*
Discotheque
Banned
i love the character but do we really need an arrow origins: felicity episode?
I agree here. I'm getting a little tired of seeing him walk into doors. Have a goddamn plan in place if you're gonna be Arrow light.
I also hate the fact that he doesn't really incapacitate. Make sure motherfuckers are down. You often see him take out some baddies and leave their guns sitting next to them. C'MON OLIVER!
krypt0nian
Banned
Arrow has had a journey to becoming a hero. Heroes do not kill without giant reasons.
No Kill stays put.
No Kill stays put.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Got put on a bus, I suppose.
StopMakingSense
Member
Too many new / recurring roles.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Huh. You know, all this time, I thought she was played by the girl who played Claudia from Warehouse 13.
Jest Chillin
Member
The two characters do have very similar wardrobe design and looks to an extent. Maybe Arrow could cast Alison Scagliotti to play the role if they want the character back in the future.
Nope
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Felicity fans and "Olicity" shippers (which I'm pretty sure makes up the majority of that character's fans) demanded it.
I think I spent one good minute laughing after that Roy flip followed by quick dart into his neck. It was HILARIOUS 
Why is even Roy in that show? He's completely useless and doesn't bring ANYTHING to the show - guy must be happy to receive paycheck for doing virtually nothing on the set
Why is even Roy in that show? He's completely useless and doesn't bring ANYTHING to the show - guy must be happy to receive paycheck for doing virtually nothing on the set
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