……forgetit
Member
Too be fair, avenger is as close to universally loved as a movie can get.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Thank God a giant corporation loves me: Marvel Studios edition
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
- Status
Too be fair, avenger is as close to universally loved as a movie can get.
Bill Paxton makes the movie.
Cruise pulls off comedy a lot better than any other blank-slate white leads I've seen in the last couple of years.
And it's based on japanese pulp fiction, of course the plot barely makes sense.
the plot was fine. it relies on video game logic and macguffins (kinda like.... whisper it... every marvel movie ever); it's serviceable. not socially conscious hard sci-fi or anything, just really fun pulp.
you're underselling the cruise missile; he's always been a great action lead and he completely sells his arc in the movie. he alone has more charisma than every member of the avengers combined. (and I'm a huge chris evans fans)
and the script isn't bad, it's very clever and funny.
it's also a ton of fun. you neglected to mention that part.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
these are things that barely fucking matter though, the things that Marvel can easily change to make fresh without losing the heart and soul of the characters.
I will agree that Ronan came out worse but Guardians was such an obscure concept that it was very smart of Feige to just let Gunn do what he wanted with his interpretation.
In the end, the GOTG movie is far more faithful, or at least respectful, to the book than even Marvel's current GOTG comic, in which Bendis is pretty much shitting all over everything that Abnett & Lanning did in their iconic run.
Stuff like that is extraneous. Plus the MCU shouldn't be a carbon copy of the comics, it's its own universe.
……forgetit
Member
FunkyPajamas
Member
lol this thread is a battlefield.
Guys, chill.
Guys, chill.
Gambit 1138
Banned
Starlords lineage and relationship with gamora completely change things though. It's going to radically alter the story going forward. Besides I was just pointing out that the films aren't as faithful to the comics as the OP said.
I haven't actually read the novel so I have no idea how the whole time loop businesses is handled there, but during the movie it just was so distracting with its nonsensicalness and inconsistency.
And I thought Cruise did a fairly bland job compared to MI 4, which was the last movie I saw him in. And RDJ has him beat hands down.
But I guess that's enough OT discussion.
It's cool, OP. No reason to even apologize. If you had said the same about Sony on the Gaming side, you'd have a lot of agreement.
I've really enjoyed nearly all of the MCU movies, and can't wait for Avengers 2 and all of Phase 3. WB/DC can only hope they are as successful.
Perfect.
I've really enjoyed nearly all of the MCU movies, and can't wait for Avengers 2 and all of Phase 3. WB/DC can only hope they are as successful.
Marvel is king.
Perfect.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I love the MCU so much. I don't like all the movies in it (Thor movies are meh, iron man movies suck with the exception of the first one) but the whole connected universe is fantastic.
For example, after they revealed the names of their next couple of movies, me and my brother started to speculate what the names of the movies could mean. A discussion of half an hour based purely on the NAMES of movies! The connected universe itself is already a great experience, the fact that most Marvel movies are also good is almost just a bonus
For example, after they revealed the names of their next couple of movies, me and my brother started to speculate what the names of the movies could mean. A discussion of half an hour based purely on the NAMES of movies! The connected universe itself is already a great experience, the fact that most Marvel movies are also good is almost just a bonus
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I deeply lament what GotG did to Nova. Still really like the movie though.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I think it'll definitely happen(all bubbles burst), it's just a matter of when and I'll be the first to admit I have no idea when that'll be. Looking at the next 7 or so years, there is a pretty spectacular glut of very expensive movies and all it really takes is one domino to fall. DC's in a more precarious position in terms of failure, but Marvel's in a more precarious position of over-exposure. Sometimes all it takes is one spectacular failure and/or a group of executives whose egos grow to the point of hurting their own films by resorting to cheaper/quicker filmmaking, pushing out great creative minds, etc.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
that's it, I'm watching Batman & Robin this week.
Also: upon rewatch The Avengers is... kind of really boring to watch.
"oh yeah, they got a giant monster... and another one" and it just goes on with spawning like a videogame. The plot is not interesting in the slightest, and the fun of the movie can be summarized in two words: "puny god". But that's about it for a two hour movie.
Iron Man 1, though originally not intended to start anything, remains much more watchable since it's about his humanity, not "things hitting things".
I'm pretty confident that Guardians is probably not as much fun on second viewing either.
Also: upon rewatch The Avengers is... kind of really boring to watch.
"oh yeah, they got a giant monster... and another one" and it just goes on with spawning like a videogame. The plot is not interesting in the slightest, and the fun of the movie can be summarized in two words: "puny god". But that's about it for a two hour movie.
Iron Man 1, though originally not intended to start anything, remains much more watchable since it's about his humanity, not "things hitting things".
I'm pretty confident that Guardians is probably not as much fun on second viewing either.
Mr. Poolman
Member
I've seen this fight before.
Back when I was a kid and at the comic book store someone asked, which was better, Marvel or DC?
I'm having a lot of flashbacks in arguments and tone.
Back when I was a kid and at the comic book store someone asked, which was better, Marvel or DC?
I'm having a lot of flashbacks in arguments and tone.
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
The problem I have with Marvel Studios is that their output is almost too good.
In retrospect, Marvel is the only studio that has something to say.
GotG I didn't like as much as everyone apparently does. IMO the movie's main characters were totally bland (except Star-lord, who was great), the villians were boring as hell and the story was utterly forgettable. The comedy and action were nice, but just those don't make a good movie IMO.
The Winter Soldier is my second favorite Marvel movie, but no one in that movie is as likable as Tony was in IM1.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Eww. Eww. No way.
Great title change lol.
Cyborg will rule them all.
I need an Aqualad and Zatanna movie, dammit
Cyborg? Lol What?
Shit I would do that work for minium wage. Cause I could write off games shit as a business expense.
I think people take for granted the unprecedented risks that Marvel has taken when they call their movies "safe". Two years ago, it would be going against all conventional wisdom to predict that Guardians of the Galaxy would be as big of a success as it has become, that it would outgross Superman/Man of Steel, Spider-Man, X-Men, and Captain America domestically, it would be the highest grossing movie of the year after Transformers worldwide, it would be the highest grossing MCU movie after IM3 and Avengers, that mainstream audiences would love a talking racoon and a talking tree, and that an obscure comic to even die-hard Marvel fans could become a household name appealing to children and adults alike.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom two year ago that Marvel releasing a new property in an off-season August would go on to be a top 3 grossing movie of the year, that an off-season April would have been good for the $176M domestic grossing CA:TFA sequel to be a top domestic grossing movie of the year (later to become the 2nd after GOTG), or that an off-season November would have been good enough for the $449M WW grossing Thor sequel to go on to gross $644 M WW and end up in the top 10 WW grossers for 2013.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom that a hammer wielding Norse god from another realm could exist in the same universe as the tech based Iron Man and still be considered a financial success especially if Green Lantern was the movie that came out a month before that year instead of a month afterwards.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom that superhero movie based on a B-list superhero franchise starring the Hollywood pariah Robert Downey Jr. (who, until that point, never had proven success as a blockbuster lead) and an upstart independent studio (created as an offshoot division of their main business, comics, which had never dabbled in creating their own films) would be able to have a breakout blockbuster certified success.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom that bringing a group of B-list heroes into a separate film franchise (a move that has not been done before), not starring the newly transformed B-list to A-list Iron Man in the title or as the leader of the team, would have beat the sequel to the critically acclaimed and commercially successful Dark Knight in the box office that year. Not only that but it would go on to become the top 3 grossing movie of all time.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom that comic book movies that are very faithful to their comic book source material can be successful in the mainstream film going world. Conventional wisdom would say some comics just couldn't be faithfully adapted and still be successful yet those expectations have been turned completely on their heads. People said you can't have a movie with Cap wearing red, white, and blue "spandex" or Thor wearing what he wears without people people considering it too campy to take serious and deciding not to watch the movies for that reason.
Marvel has helped pioneer bold paradigm changing schools of thought in not just comic book adaptation to film but they've helped make people rethink what can create success in film in general. While people can now try to act like all these moves are safe now that they are proven and how Marvel's calculated risks and planning can have it's success attributed to sticking to some kind of "formula", these are lessons that competing studios attempting to emulate and replicate Marvel's success still haven't really learned. The blueprint is practically laid out and still no one studio has proven to "get it". What Marvel does is supposedly so "safe" and "by-the-numbers", yet no one has taken that #3 spot from the Avengers after having 2 years to do so. Not even Marvel's own Iron Man 3 has taken that honor and yet instead of going with more Iron Man sequels or Avenger sequels like most studios would do to milk those franchises for all they are worth, they are introducing at least as many new franchises as they have sequels in the upcoming years.
If people don't like Marvel's movies or think they get more praise or have more success than they deserve, that's your opinion and that's fine, but people trying to discredit what Marvel Studios has down to lay the groundwork for the success they are enjoying today as well as the influence they have on comic book movies and the film industry in general is mind boggling.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom two year ago that Marvel releasing a new property in an off-season August would go on to be a top 3 grossing movie of the year, that an off-season April would have been good for the $176M domestic grossing CA:TFA sequel to be a top domestic grossing movie of the year (later to become the 2nd after GOTG), or that an off-season November would have been good enough for the $449M WW grossing Thor sequel to go on to gross $644 M WW and end up in the top 10 WW grossers for 2013.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom that a hammer wielding Norse god from another realm could exist in the same universe as the tech based Iron Man and still be considered a financial success especially if Green Lantern was the movie that came out a month before that year instead of a month afterwards.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom that superhero movie based on a B-list superhero franchise starring the Hollywood pariah Robert Downey Jr. (who, until that point, never had proven success as a blockbuster lead) and an upstart independent studio (created as an offshoot division of their main business, comics, which had never dabbled in creating their own films) would be able to have a breakout blockbuster certified success.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom that bringing a group of B-list heroes into a separate film franchise (a move that has not been done before), not starring the newly transformed B-list to A-list Iron Man in the title or as the leader of the team, would have beat the sequel to the critically acclaimed and commercially successful Dark Knight in the box office that year. Not only that but it would go on to become the top 3 grossing movie of all time.
It would have gone against conventional wisdom that comic book movies that are very faithful to their comic book source material can be successful in the mainstream film going world. Conventional wisdom would say some comics just couldn't be faithfully adapted and still be successful yet those expectations have been turned completely on their heads. People said you can't have a movie with Cap wearing red, white, and blue "spandex" or Thor wearing what he wears without people people considering it too campy to take serious and deciding not to watch the movies for that reason.
Marvel has helped pioneer bold paradigm changing schools of thought in not just comic book adaptation to film but they've helped make people rethink what can create success in film in general. While people can now try to act like all these moves are safe now that they are proven and how Marvel's calculated risks and planning can have it's success attributed to sticking to some kind of "formula", these are lessons that competing studios attempting to emulate and replicate Marvel's success still haven't really learned. The blueprint is practically laid out and still no one studio has proven to "get it". What Marvel does is supposedly so "safe" and "by-the-numbers", yet no one has taken that #3 spot from the Avengers after having 2 years to do so. Not even Marvel's own Iron Man 3 has taken that honor and yet instead of going with more Iron Man sequels or Avenger sequels like most studios would do to milk those franchises for all they are worth, they are introducing at least as many new franchises as they have sequels in the upcoming years.
If people don't like Marvel's movies or think they get more praise or have more success than they deserve, that's your opinion and that's fine, but people trying to discredit what Marvel Studios has down to lay the groundwork for the success they are enjoying today as well as the influence they have on comic book movies and the film industry in general is mind boggling.
A problem I think Marvel and DC both have is that they have opened up too much about their plans in the future. I mean, we already know everything they have planned out for the next 4-5 years and that's crazy. This leads to two problems, one personal and one logical problem.
1.
When the bubble will burst (and it will, eventually) they're left with a bunch of promised movies that will result in a loss. If history's to be believed it only takes one movie to destroy everything. Batman & Robin ruined comic book movies for years and it took a couple of major successes to bring it back. If, for instance, Dr. Strange turns out to be a huge disaster Marvel needs to rethink their entire stategy, because they don't seem to have any plans for that scenario. They fully believe that every movie they make will turn a huge profit, but you can never depend on that.
DC has it even worse, they have made their entire line-up for the coming years known based on the belief the movies will be a success. Man of Steel wasn't a big success though, and from what I've seen of the buzz, they need to do a lot of hyping to be able to make Superman vs. Batman something people want to see.
2.
My personal problem with showing your hand too early is that the movies now lack any kind of tension with the characters. I don't care if I see Thor grabbing Tony Stark by the throat in the Age of Ultron trailer, if I hear Stark say this is the end of everything or that you can see Captain America's shield lying shattered. Why? Because we know that in the end it will be okay and all the heroes will prevail. There are at least two more Avengers movies coming, RDJ as Tony Stark will be one of the mains in Cap 3. The mere fact that we know that that Captain America 3 is already confirmed means that the scene where Cap's shield is broken will mean nothing in the grand scale of things.
I remember that when at the end of the credits in The Incredible Hulk Robert Downey Jr. showed up to talk about (supposedly) recruiting The Hulk/Abomination for The Avengers I was super hyped up. Sure, if you had followed the news, you'd know that an Avengers movie was the endgame, but I sure as hell didn't know that when I saw the movie. People had the same reaction when they saw Thor's hammer at the end of Iron Man 2, they were damn excited. Now we all know what movies are coming, so the only question remains is what movie their going to give us a preview of and that's far less exciting than being completely surprised.
At the moment this is less of a problem with the DC Universe, because it doesn't really exist yet, but you can bet your ass that they are going to play up some kind of drama, which we as viewers know won't be important at any time in the future, because we already know that they're going to show up as one happy (or grimdark) gang in the Justice League movie.
1.
When the bubble will burst (and it will, eventually) they're left with a bunch of promised movies that will result in a loss. If history's to be believed it only takes one movie to destroy everything. Batman & Robin ruined comic book movies for years and it took a couple of major successes to bring it back. If, for instance, Dr. Strange turns out to be a huge disaster Marvel needs to rethink their entire stategy, because they don't seem to have any plans for that scenario. They fully believe that every movie they make will turn a huge profit, but you can never depend on that.
DC has it even worse, they have made their entire line-up for the coming years known based on the belief the movies will be a success. Man of Steel wasn't a big success though, and from what I've seen of the buzz, they need to do a lot of hyping to be able to make Superman vs. Batman something people want to see.
2.
My personal problem with showing your hand too early is that the movies now lack any kind of tension with the characters. I don't care if I see Thor grabbing Tony Stark by the throat in the Age of Ultron trailer, if I hear Stark say this is the end of everything or that you can see Captain America's shield lying shattered. Why? Because we know that in the end it will be okay and all the heroes will prevail. There are at least two more Avengers movies coming, RDJ as Tony Stark will be one of the mains in Cap 3. The mere fact that we know that that Captain America 3 is already confirmed means that the scene where Cap's shield is broken will mean nothing in the grand scale of things.
I remember that when at the end of the credits in The Incredible Hulk Robert Downey Jr. showed up to talk about (supposedly) recruiting The Hulk/Abomination for The Avengers I was super hyped up. Sure, if you had followed the news, you'd know that an Avengers movie was the endgame, but I sure as hell didn't know that when I saw the movie. People had the same reaction when they saw Thor's hammer at the end of Iron Man 2, they were damn excited. Now we all know what movies are coming, so the only question remains is what movie their going to give us a preview of and that's far less exciting than being completely surprised.
At the moment this is less of a problem with the DC Universe, because it doesn't really exist yet, but you can bet your ass that they are going to play up some kind of drama, which we as viewers know won't be important at any time in the future, because we already know that they're going to show up as one happy (or grimdark) gang in the Justice League movie.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Because people who enjoy them have lost their minds.
Because I too enjoy the marvel movies but I find no reason to constantly remind people if the fact.
Yes, we get it. Winter Soldier had really great action.
Yes, we get it. Some people thought guardians was going to bomb, but it was a huge hit instead.
Okay. No one is arguing any of this, why keep bringing it up?
Let me put it to you another way. I think the show Family Guy is one of the stupidest things in modern culture. I can't stand it, and I am perplexed and annoyed by those that find it funny. However-it would never even occur to me to enter a thread where fans of the show were celebrating their love of it and post my feelings. It takes a certain type of motivation to even entertain that thought.
Gambit 1138
Banned
People forget that Marvel and comic Book movies in general were already increasing in popularity and revenue and the
Box office for years. It was a no brainier that marvel would eventually set up their own studio for better creative control. Considering that even stuff like hellboy and 300 were raking in the dough and even garbage tier marvel films like fantastic four were making money there wasn't much of a risk at all.
People who didn't think guardians of the Galaxy could be a blockbuster have small minds. There is not a single IP that can't be successful so long as the execution and marketing is
done correctly.
Box office for years. It was a no brainier that marvel would eventually set up their own studio for better creative control. Considering that even stuff like hellboy and 300 were raking in the dough and even garbage tier marvel films like fantastic four were making money there wasn't much of a risk at all.
People who didn't think guardians of the Galaxy could be a blockbuster have small minds. There is not a single IP that can't be successful so long as the execution and marketing is
done correctly.
Every Marvel movie I've seen has either been dreadful or painfully mediocre. Awful looking CG.... Although admittedly that's something plaguing Hollywood. The movies also have terrible humor. The type of humor you would find on Full House or some lousy CW show.
The movies are the type of safe crap the public consumes I'm not surprised by their success.
The movies are the type of safe crap the public consumes I'm not surprised by their success.
Agreed OP. I look forward to every Marvel and I love all the comic book threads popping up. I really need to start reading the comics. Would love to but I'm too stubborn to pay for a Marvel Unlimited sub to read on my PC when I would rather read on a tablet that I don't have lol.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'm glad I have no standards at all.
I've liked, if not loved, the worst comic book movies out there. X-Men Origins Wolverine, Spidey 3, Amazing 1&2, X3, Daredevil, Elektra, Scott Pilgrim, all of the crappy Reeve movies (first is great, but it's really downhill from there), the Burton and Schumacher Batman movies (universally crap '89-on).
Maybe it's because the standard for comic based entertainment before that like Super Friends or Spider-Man and his Amazing friends. Like real bottom of the barrel trash. Or NBC's Spider-Man for live action stuff.
Marvel movies hit this inoffensive area where they aren't that amazing, but they are all great. Even the worst of them are nowhere near as bad as Elektra, X3, Spidey 3, or the Burton/Schumacher Batmovies.
You guys just need to chill and lower your standards. Because there is no possible way superhero schlock can be "high art". It's always going to be idealistic representations of people dressing in funny costumes.
Even the "deepest" of them like the Nolan Bats are still a guy dressing in a Bat costume trying to "save my city."
Universally campy schlock. So roll with it and enjoy the ride.
I've liked, if not loved, the worst comic book movies out there. X-Men Origins Wolverine, Spidey 3, Amazing 1&2, X3, Daredevil, Elektra, Scott Pilgrim, all of the crappy Reeve movies (first is great, but it's really downhill from there), the Burton and Schumacher Batman movies (universally crap '89-on).
Maybe it's because the standard for comic based entertainment before that like Super Friends or Spider-Man and his Amazing friends. Like real bottom of the barrel trash. Or NBC's Spider-Man for live action stuff.
Marvel movies hit this inoffensive area where they aren't that amazing, but they are all great. Even the worst of them are nowhere near as bad as Elektra, X3, Spidey 3, or the Burton/Schumacher Batmovies.
You guys just need to chill and lower your standards. Because there is no possible way superhero schlock can be "high art". It's always going to be idealistic representations of people dressing in funny costumes.
Even the "deepest" of them like the Nolan Bats are still a guy dressing in a Bat costume trying to "save my city."
Universally campy schlock. So roll with it and enjoy the ride.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It took 10 pages before we got this statement. Not sure if thats a good or a bad thing.
I liked bits of GotG, but most of the movie felt like a series of meandering events. The characters weren't that fleshed out, and some of the designs were off.
I thought Captain America 2 was actually a bit better. I actually tuned out of most of the first one because it was uninteresting.
As for the rest, I can't say I'm a big fan.
I thought Captain America 2 was actually a bit better. I actually tuned out of most of the first one because it was uninteresting.
As for the rest, I can't say I'm a big fan.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I had to see how much of a clusterfuck the thread was turning into before I chimed in.
You're welcome.
...how DARE you talk shit about Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends!
- Status