Thunder Monkey
Banned
Only good thing about it is the dog!
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Thank God a giant corporation loves me: Marvel Studios edition
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
- Status
Only good thing about it is the dog!
Bobby Roberts
Banned
NOW you're tripping.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Well... I was one of the few fans of Scrappy-Doo.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Your opening gambit makes even MORE sense now.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Having no standards or expectations means you are rarely, if ever, disappointed by anything.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It means you also willingly eat a TON of shit.
just another day at the movies for Thunder Monkey
TetraxShards
Member
Story checks out.
I feel like we have this thread every week.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
But I'm not disappointed by it either!
edit: Oooo! I love the edit MrRobertBobby.
Inertia Creeps
Banned
This is almost as terrible as the idiot who claimed Kathleen Kennedy hasn't been involved in a movie better than Avengers and Winter Soldier or whatever earlier in this thread.
Discotheque
Banned
just google 'kathleen kennedy movies'
Bobby Roberts
Banned
OF COURSE YOU DO
edit: seriously, comparing Kathleen Kennedy to Kevin Feige is one of the weirder turns this particular conversation has tried to take. People don't even have a real firm grasp on what it is DIRECTORS do in these topics sometimes, and people are going to finely contrast the abilities and duties of two completely different film executives by using a metric that seems more fitting to use on say, the people who wrote, shot, edited, and/or starred in the movies?
Inertia Creeps
Banned
No, I can't explain why films such as Schindler's List, Munich, and Persepolis aren't as well crafted, insightful, and relevant and important to our growth as a culture as milestones such as the Avengers and the second Captain America movie, you're right, I'm sorry. I actually do like MCU films btw.
How does that make.
Wrong?
There is currently a "Universe building" arms race between studios because of Marvel.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I sort of was excited about them before, but the 2014 MCU movies (CA:WS and GOTG) were so great that I'm really excited now
Like the Cinematic Universe idea a bunch too
Inertia Creeps
Banned
?? You asked me to explain why a completely separate person and opinion from earlier in the thread was asinine and I did, what are you on about now?
I was asking about the person you quoted. Cuburt.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Marvel adapted their publishing strategy to film, combining it with storytelling and even production aspects already currently in use in television.
That's one thing.
Trying to say the executive who helped shape that particular production strategy is somehow easily "better" than another executive because... what, because other movies didn't try to make Schindler's List after Schindler's List came out?
It's a really, really weird argument to even enter into, honestly. Marvel Studios is doing what Marvel Publishing's always done. It was a risk to try and adapt that to film, a risk they've mitigated and modified as they've gone along. But so far as the history of turning motion pictures into multimedia franchises, this isn't as landmark and revolutionary as it's being made out. It's just that they had the opportunity to do so where others didn't NEED to pursue that opportunity, and they made good on it.
How this makes Kathleen Kennedy somehow a lesser executive compared to Kevin Feige, I don't know.
Then again, the fact people are arguing over which executive excutives the best like 80s kids used to argue over whether Magic Johnson or Isiah Thomas was a better point guard is part of the reason this thread title got changed, I'd bet.
edit: I don't think this a bubble that's going to burst insofar that "Superhero movies" stop being a thing - but I do think there's going to be a point where the idea of a unified continuity IS going to fall out of favor, and it'll probably take one or two movies seriously denting the projected income for a studio for people to say "maybe we shouldn't try to link every fucking thing we have into the same world just because we can."
Because it's not necessarily proven that doing so inherently improves the quality of your story.
That's one thing.
Trying to say the executive who helped shape that particular production strategy is somehow easily "better" than another executive because... what, because other movies didn't try to make Schindler's List after Schindler's List came out?
It's a really, really weird argument to even enter into, honestly. Marvel Studios is doing what Marvel Publishing's always done. It was a risk to try and adapt that to film, a risk they've mitigated and modified as they've gone along. But so far as the history of turning motion pictures into multimedia franchises, this isn't as landmark and revolutionary as it's being made out. It's just that they had the opportunity to do so where others didn't NEED to pursue that opportunity, and they made good on it.
How this makes Kathleen Kennedy somehow a lesser executive compared to Kevin Feige, I don't know.
Then again, the fact people are arguing over which executive excutives the best like 80s kids used to argue over whether Magic Johnson or Isiah Thomas was a better point guard is part of the reason this thread title got changed, I'd bet.
edit: I don't think this a bubble that's going to burst insofar that "Superhero movies" stop being a thing - but I do think there's going to be a point where the idea of a unified continuity IS going to fall out of favor, and it'll probably take one or two movies seriously denting the projected income for a studio for people to say "maybe we shouldn't try to link every fucking thing we have into the same world just because we can."
Because it's not necessarily proven that doing so inherently improves the quality of your story.
Inertia Creeps
Banned
Oh, shared universes aren't "bold paradigms of thought" or whatever moronic hyperbole that guy was spouting in that essay, the 1960s Batman series got it's own movie, the Matrix had video games that were concurrent with the film's narrative and tied directly into it, etc. etc. The only unique things about the MCU compared to all of these is the $$ it's made and how long it's going to slog on for.
None of your examples have solo characters on film that are their own franchise combining into a teamup.
The thing damn near every studio is trying to emulate.
cheezcake
Member
Every studio? Who else is doing that out of curiosity
I said damn near :/
But off the top of my head the Bourne franchise, the Monster mash universe, WB/DC, Sony, Fox.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe#Impact_on_other_studios
DC Entertainment and Warner Bros, Sony and Fox
I think they were going to do the same thing with Tom Clancy's characters, starting with Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit, but I don't know if they're still doing it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
C'mon man. That one's more like having more than two Doctors in an episode of Doctor Who.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm definitely going to see it if it happens. I haven't been disappointed by a Bourne film yet. The last one with Renner wasn't AS good as the first three, but it was still a solid spy flick.
Inertia Creeps
Banned
No studios are trying to emulate this. DC/WB are the only studio with a franchise teamup planned with Justice League, and they've been trying to make one since 2007, before the first Iron Man came out. Even Fox has stated that the Fantastic Four and X-Men universes will be separate, so no X-Men/FF team up. Sony also has no plans to team up Spiderman with Venom or whatever either if that movie ever comes out at this rate, he's not even 100% confirmed to appear in it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah, Sony does have a plan to create a single Spider-Man universe that fits multiple movies and spinoff films within it. They've said as much publicly.
It's just that they're REALLY shitty at actually getting that done. Hell, they don't seem to have a solid grasp on making actual Spider-Man movies first.
It's just that they're REALLY shitty at actually getting that done. Hell, they don't seem to have a solid grasp on making actual Spider-Man movies first.
Inertia Creeps
Banned
I never said they didn't, I said they have no confirmed plans for characters from all of these spinoffs coming together in a teamup film, like "every other damn studio" does apparently.
The only reason Fox and Sony are pushing Gambit, Deadpool, Female spidey lead, Venom, villain teamup is to build up hype for big crossovers... and big $$$$$.
ASM2 plot is literally for that reason. Hell Sony may be doing this with Robbin Hood http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=907739
You also left out Monster mash and Bourne (Universal?)
Schweinehund
Member
They're fun movies but I don't think most of them will be memorable in 10 years for me.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Needs to be a "BAN" gif.
Need's Bish's face on it
It fits so perfectly, I can actually imagine it
DC did the first crossover with Jimmy Olsen from Superman 1/2 in Supergirl 
Seriously though who gives a shit? I'm a DC guy but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy Marvel films too. We're getting a shit ton of mostly good superhero movies, and if one studio wants to one-up the other, we'll just get (hopefully) better films, can't we just be happy about that?
Seriously though who gives a shit? I'm a DC guy but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy Marvel films too. We're getting a shit ton of mostly good superhero movies, and if one studio wants to one-up the other, we'll just get (hopefully) better films, can't we just be happy about that?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Of course they do. That's the whole point of them sharing a universe/continuity. It's a given. Otherwise they wouldn't go to the trouble in the first place.
I find it funny that some people seem to seriously think that a person's taste in movies is a reliable predictor of intelligence. It's like saying anyone who listens to the top 40 is a moron. I can't stand most pop music myself but some of the smartest people I know (and I come across a lot of exceptionally intelligent people in my line of work) listen to what I'd consider garbage music.
Taste in consumer art is a piss poor reflection of intelligence. What you have to say about the art you like or dislike though and how you go about conveying your opinions speaks volumes.
Taste in consumer art is a piss poor reflection of intelligence. What you have to say about the art you like or dislike though and how you go about conveying your opinions speaks volumes.
The 1960's Batman getting a movie is like the equivalent to The Simpsons Movie or South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut, or any other TV shows that have been made into movies or movies that have been made into shows (although it's far more likely that they keep the television cast for a movie based on the TV show than keep the movie cast for a TV show based on a movie).
The Matrix is unique in it's tying a video game directly after the movies, but unlike the MCU, there is no tie back from the spin-off material to the movies (the main franchise). The MCU has had their Marvel One-Shots introduce character which played roles in the movies and have had characters play roles in both the movies and TV shows that run concurrently.
The Matrix treated their expanded universe similar to how Star Wars did, in that they'd use other mediums to tell side stories or fill in the blanks to existing stories. Yet there was nothing created in these other outlets that went on to have more effect in the "movie universe" for lack of a better term. Disney even when as far as saying that all Star Wars expanded universe content was non-canon. That includes stuff that LucasArts promoted as telling separate canonical stories in the universe but we have yet to see, say, Starkiller appear in a movie or whatever other fan favorite characters that were supposed to be canon.
Marvel hasn't yet done something on the level of taking Daredevil and putting him in The Avengers but they can since they've planned for the possibility for stuff like that to happen. They've negotiated with actors specifically for these types of crossovers to take place.
But Mahvel did set the billion dollar trend, and Universal is also trying their hand with a new monster connected universe. What's really remarkable are the plastic crack sales, Avengers are coming for you Batman
Hasn't the idea of the movie crossover basically been relegated to monster movies for the most part? Even the Godzilla films or you can even count the random Freddy vs Jason or Alien vs Predator movies.
In that sense, the idea of a "villain" crossover is much more common than a "hero" crossover in Hollywood.
Inertia Creeps
Banned
The dude I have been responding to has been adamant that Marvel has been pushing new creative boundaries with their shared cinematic universe. I said they haven't, and that shared, interconnected universes aren't a new thing in storytelling. He the claims that this isn't true, because only Marvel has a film where multiple separate characters in their shared universes have a "teamup together movie" that "every damn studio" is specifically trying to emulate. I then pointed out the only confirmed movie that's part of a shared universe that has separate characters in it teaming up in one movie is Justice League. This is fact. There is no confirmed "Spiderman and the Sinister Six and Venom and Blackcat all together" movie, there is no confirmed "Past and future Xmen and X-Force and Deadpool and Gambit team up" movie. If you say there absolutely 100% is and that it's planned and guaranteed to happen, you're talking out of your ass. I never said that Spideman couldn't cameo in the Venom movie or that Gambit can't appear in an ensemble X-Men movie. But is in no way "given" that all of these franchises are going to shoehorn all of their separate characters into single big tentpole event films like the Avengers and it's not the only and "whole point of sharing a universe/continuity" either, things that work well for one property aren't a guaranteed match for another. Look at the Star Wars EU or the extended Halo universe or whatever else if you think otherwise.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I know. I read the thread. I was just responding directly to your claim that Sony wasn't trying to build a shared cinematic universe. They are.
That doesn't mean I disagree with anything else that you said, or that I think you're on the wrong track with the general thrust of your argument. Just that you'd gotten a detail wrong.
Now, if you wanna continue to act like I've blown an O-ring and are proceeding to rain all manner of hot mud all over the entirety of your thesis, go ahead, but I'm gonna suggest you might be overreacting a little
Inertia Creeps
Banned
This is wrong, some of the Matrix games tie directly into the plot, similar to the Animatrix, with regards to the plot and introduction and actions of characters. For example Enter the Matrix was finished and released in 2003 before the final film even came out, and specifically introduces Mary Alice as the Oracle before she is later seen in Revolutions.
Gambit 1138
Banned
My big hope is that after the big Marvel reboot in April we get a unified canon across all Marvel media like Disney is doing with the Star Wars Universe
ASM2 used a good portion of the movie to seed characters that will likely appear in the Sinister Six movie, whether they decide to go with Garfield or any of the original actors or not.
Days of Future Past was practically a crossover movie between the "original X-Men trilogy" cast and the "First Class" cast, the latter of which was part of a movie that seemed to originally be considered a semi-prequel/semi-reboot of sorts. DoFP only served to highlight how messy that continuity was when they tried to combine it so I have a hard time seeing it really as much more than a crossover between the 2 series.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think they're going this route too, but again, my question is why is this such an awesome thing?
I mean, it's just taken as fact that it is, nobody seems to question it - but does sharing a single continuity really help the storytelling THAT much? Especially considering most of the stories people tend to cite in superhero stories as being some of the most compelling and interesting are standalones or what-if/elseworld stories?
There are positives to doing it, yes, and the sense of interconnectedness maintains a cool-factor that doesn't wear off too easily, but there's also some serious negatives, negatives that are usually solved by the writers who find themselves inside that continuity by.. breaking it, ignoring it, or completely discarding it for their own universe.
A shared continuity seems like it opens up storytelling possibilities, but it ends up constricting them. It ends up taking choices off the table.
Gambit 1138
Banned
No it really is awesome. I think like 30% of all internet fights have to do with the canon of some beloved series because of poor studio oversight and creator sloppiness. A shared continuity where everything counts creates a greater sense of quality control and no debate on wether a character or event actually "happened". Nobody has to feel bad or get upset for buying or loving a book or comic or movie/show that gets thrown out and no longer counts a few years later.
Plus it allows people to get even more immersed in their favorite characters because each piece of media can explore different aspects and in some cases far greater detail than the movies can. It makes it feel like a real living breathing world.
Inertia Creeps
Banned
DOFP is a crossover film, not sure how I forgot that example. Still isn't any sort of evidence that "every damn studio" is trying to specifically emulate Marvel's Avengers (this is from someone else who I am referring to in the post of mine you quoted, he was saying nobody but Marvel did a "team up with different characters from a shared universe" at first and now everyone is trying to copy specifically just that about the MCU ) Not sure why you're pointing out ASM2 teasing the Sinister Six, Spiderman 2 teased plot points for the future sequel in a post credits sequence 10 years ago.
There you go again highlighting one sentence out of my whole post in an attempt to discredit me.
Yes, Enter the Matrix is actually a good point since Ghost has more of a role in the game than he does in the movie.
But this stuff wasn't very successful or well-received so even despite being "first to do some of the same things, how does that not make Marvel the ones who get the credit for influencing the industry when other studios follow their lead?
And again, it's still falls more into the realm of supplemental material to fill in the blanks that the movies don't focus on. There is nothing introduced in, say, the Animatrix that later plays a part in the movies. As someone who was a big fan of the Matrix and all that expanded universe they built, I would have enjoyed some more nods to that stuff, especially since the Wachowskis were directly involved with much of it, but it wasn't meant to be consumed in that way, unlike how Marvel wants people to watch the DVDs, the TV shows, and the movies to get all the pieces.
- Status