Starcraft 2 player disqualified from tournament because of rape tweet

binaryrevolt said:
I did not make the equalization to the word nigger, someone else did. It does serve as an example of a word that was appropriated to mean something different within a specific community. Sorry if you took offense it is not my intention.

Unfortunately, I have no idea on how we can stop it since it's been going on a very long time. It brings back awful memories for me if I took what they said literally. Maybe it is just a self defense mechanism on my part to accept the gamer definition of the word rape.

If I could eradicate it from the gamer lingo I would, but I have no idea where to start. It has been going on for a very very long time.
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It starts when the culture changes substantially. That's not something that will happen overnight for anything. We're seeing it in bits and pieces but there's two big problems at the moment: many corporations benefit from the status quo (male-oriented gaming culture), and reactionary hate mobs that wear the veil of a social movement (Gamergate).
 
TheHall said:
"I disagree with this guy so much, i am going to spread the word and favorite his tweet"
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...Yes? People retweet controversial statements so they can be seen by more people all the time, and they favorite them so they can go back to them any time. This isn't just tweets, but literally anything from macabre news articles to videos on the internet. You think this thread was created because the OP agrees with the original tweet or because he wanted more people to learn about it? This isn't new.
 
TheHall said:
"I disagree with this guy so much, i am going to spread the word and favorite his tweet"
Click to expand...

The number of actions aren't always the same as number of approvals. There is probably a 80/20 percent split of approval and archiving\showing off something stupid, just to drag out a somewhat likely number.
 
Ikuu said:
Why should it be?
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Because playing games for money usually involves some group that puts in a lot of work to organize the tournaments, help provide the prize pool, and generally make everything happen. If they do all that, they should be allowed to set some standards of behavior for their competitors. This kind of gross "trash talk" from one entrant to another seems like a pretty clear case of unsporting behavior, so the tournament organizers rightly have the option to throw the book at the offender.
 
SmartWaffles said:
Don't know if this has been posted yet but NightEnD (A Romanian progamer) made this a bit worse:
ZeR8POf.png

https://twitter.com/NightEnDD/status/535881157598924800
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This tweet pisses me off as much as the original if not more.
 
Orayn said:
Because playing games for money usually involves some group that puts in a lot of work to organize the tournaments, help provide the prize pool, and generally make everything happen. If they do all that, they should be allowed to set some standards of behavior for their competitors
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It disappoints me greatly that this has to be explained to reasonably intelligent individuals. The fact that it had to be bothers me to no end. Nice of you to even reply; you're a better man than I am. "Are you fucking kidding?" would have been my reply, so I didn't bother.
 
To say you raped, murdered, killed, destroyed etc another team thats one thing. That falls in the category of trashtalk. Its expected. Teams are prepared for it. To say you are going to rape a girl? Now you're getting specific. You're getting personal. That falls in the catagory of being at the very least insensitive, and at worst, criminal. If he didn't know it was wrong, i suspect he does now.
 
really glad he's been reprimanded.

people still make rape jokes in Titanfall, and it makes me cringe every time.

as a general side note, the amount of attention women's rights are getting in the media right now is amazing - i feel like we're finally beginning the move towards a sexually "conscious" society.
 
SolidChamp said:
What the fuck has the bold got to do with anything?
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Sorry if I did not phrase it correctly. What I first wanted to said is, since she is definitely
a very low level compared to the other pro gamers going at this event,
she was going to lose to any of them in a brutal manner, which is why, I think, he used that word in the sense he was going to play so much better that he will "destroy"/"humiliate" her, and absolutely not in the sense that he was going to physically abuse her.

Secondly, but it is completely off topic so it is not important, but she did get an invite just due to her gender and not her skill, or to be said it differently, she has been invited because she is known and she is known because she is a girl. The fact there is a disparity of treatment just based on gender is an other form of sexism in my opinion. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter because it is some kind of "positive" sexism when you promote women in a lost exclusively man field which is nice, but on the other I guess a lot of mid/high pro gamer way way way much better than her (I cannot emphasize how much disparity skill wise there is between her and other players) did not get the chance to be invited must be pissed of.
 
angrygnat said:
To say you raped, murdered, killed, destroyed etc another team thats one thing. That falls in the category of trashtalk. Its expected. Teams are prepared for it. To say you are going to rape a girl? Now you're getting specific. You're getting personal. That falls in the catagory of being at the very least insensitive, and at worst, criminal. If he didn't know it was wrong, i suspect he does now.
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the girl was his opponent in his next match.
 
Vana said:
Sorry if I did not phrase it correctly. What I first wanted to said is, since she is definitely
a very low level compared to the other pro gamers going at this event,
she was going to lose to any of them in a brutal manner, which is why, I think, he used that word in the sense he was going to play so much better that he will "destroy"/"humiliate" her, and absolutely not in the sense that he was going to physically abuse her.

Secondly, but it is completely off topic so it is not important, but she did get an invite just due to her gender and not her skill, or to be said it differently, she has been invited because she is known and she is known because she is a girl. The fact there is a disparity of treatment just based on gender is an other form of sexism in my opinion. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter because it is some kind of "positive" sexism when you promote women in a lost exclusively man field which is nice, but on the other I guess a lot of mid/high pro gamer way way way much better than her (I cannot emphasize how much disparity skill wise there is between her and other players) did not get the chance to be invited must be pissed of.
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It sure is great to read a bargain-basement "gaming culture" version of arguments against affirmative action. Keep fighting that good fight against the promotion of women in your hobby.
 
Vana said:
As someone that follow the starcraft scene, here is my 2 cents:

1. No matter how bad taste it seems, rape "joke" or, killing are often said in any competitive game, just like a classic trash talk to your opponent, things like "I will kill him", "it will be a rape" or stuff like that are often said without anyone complaining about it when its said from man to man. Of course, saying "i'm going to rape you" to women, even if it is in the same context so clearly not a real threat, is way more offending to them and it is understandable that Maddelisk was offended.

2. The women in question was invited in this tournament not because of her skills as she is kind of low level but because of her gender, which is also -in my opinion but off topic- a little bit problematic.

3. Anyway, in this context, knowing the skill of its opponent it is clear, without any doubt imo, that his tweet was not like a threat of sexually or physical violence but just that he was to win easily (which he did, since as a matter of fact the game was played before the decision to ban him was taken after).

I don't want to defend Kas, because it was really an extra-dumb thing to say in a public media, especially now with all the #gamergate stuff and the tournament is in his right to ban him, joking about rape is clearly not a good thing as this word carry a lot of weight. But as bad as it is, the shitstorm after it with extreme and polarized overreactions on both "sides" ("it just a word!!! " " you all are misogynist rapist!!!" seems crazy to me and exploded out of proportion.
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Honestly I think people can try to trash talk without invoking words like "rape" and "murder". I don't really think the context or the history of trash talk in gaming matters. It should be something for gamers to work towards avoiding.

I don't play competitive online games often, let alone speak through a mic, but if I hear anyone speaking like this I would probably report the person.
 
Should have been lifetime, he should no better. "English is not his native language" or "It's just trashtalk" are not valid excuses.
 
angrygnat said:
To say you raped, murdered, killed, destroyed etc another team thats one thing. That falls in the category of trashtalk. Its expected. Teams are prepared for it. To say you are going to rape a girl? Now you're getting specific. You're getting personal. That falls in the catagory of being at the very least insensitive, and at worst, criminal. If he didn't know it was wrong, i suspect he does now.
Click to expand...

I am not trying to defend this dude because what he said was competently stupid and he deserves his punishment, but he was talking about the next opponent he had to play.

Also, if you quickly look at his twitter timeline you can see his English is pretty horrendous. Seems like he was just very stupid and ignorant to how impactful that word is in our culture. I'm glad he apologized quickly, and it appears the girl has accepted it and everyone can move on now.
 
vicissitudes said:
How would people feel if he tweeted "going to destroy some girl soon"?
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The "some girl" part shouldn't even be considered offensive either, since it is just dismissive of the opponent in general. It could easily be replaced by "some guy" in any instance where the opponent is some unknown and has no history/record.

This sort of thing makes for "amusing" drama though, especially when irony strikes and the person making the statement gets beaten soundly. Generally speaking for myself, beating "known" players as an "unknown" individual tend to be more satisfying given the arrogance shown commonly enough.
 
If you're someone who thinks rape is a "gaming term" you need to stop playing video games. I've been playing multiplayer games in competitive communities for about a decade now. That context doesn't make it okay.
 
For me, this just show how infantile is the mentality of people from the e-sports. I can't take serious most of them.
 
Vana said:
Sorry if I did not phrase it correctly. What I first wanted to said is, since she is definitely
a very low level compared to the other pro gamers going at this event,
she was going to lose to any of them in a brutal manner, which is why, I think, he used that word in the sense he was going to play so much better that he will "destroy"/"humiliate" her, and absolutely not in the sense that he was going to physically abuse her.

Secondly, but it is completely off topic so it is not important, but she did get an invite just due to her gender and not her skill, or to be said it differently, she has been invited because she is known and she is known because she is a girl. The fact there is a disparity of treatment just based on gender is an other form of sexism in my opinion. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter because it is some kind of "positive" sexism when you promote women in a lost exclusively man field which is nice, but on the other I guess a lot of mid/high pro gamer way way way much better than her (I cannot emphasize how much disparity skill wise there is between her and other players) did not get the chance to be invited must be pissed of.
Click to expand...

I have already stated my ignorance on starcraft, but on her blog it said she's a world champion. Can you offer some more insights as for why she has a tittle but apparently plays on a lower level?
 
angrygnat said:
To say you raped, murdered, killed, destroyed etc another team thats one thing. That falls in the category of trashtalk. Its expected. Teams are prepared for it.
Click to expand...

It. Does. Not. Matter.

It doesn't make any difference. He (or the "gaming culture" at large) don't get to pick and choose the context in which words are used. Nobody in this thread thinks that he was talking about actually, physically raping her. We all know what he "meant", and it's still disgusting and inappropriate.
 
Anton Sugar said:
It. Does. Not. Matter.

It doesn't make any difference. He (or the "gaming culture" at large) don't get to pick and choose the context in which words are used. Nobody in this thread thinks that he was talking about actually, physically raping her. We all know what he "meant", and it's still disgusting and inappropriate.
Click to expand...


Umm, why are you quoting me here? I. never. said. that. it. made. a. difference. I was simply replying to "To say you raped, murdered, killed, destroyed etc another team thats one thing. That falls in the category of trashtalk. Its expected. Teams are prepared for it."

All I was doing was pointing out that he was saying that to his opponent in the form of trash talk.
 
Pandaman said:
you should probably have said that to the guy he quoted.
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BrassMonkey1010 said:
Umm, why are you quoting me here? I. never. said. that. it. made. a. difference. I was simply replying to "To say you raped, murdered, killed, destroyed etc another team thats one thing. That falls in the category of trashtalk. Its expected. Teams are prepared for it."

All I was doing was pointing out that he was saying that to his opponent in the form of trash talk.
Click to expand...

That's my bad, I misread, sorry.
 
Seems like a fair punishment. All those demanding a lifetime ban or worse are off their rockers.

Dude apologized, she accepted, he's taking his punishment. Seems like everything is worked out.
 
Marcel said:
Victim blaming. What a surprise.

But it's just "gaming culture", right?
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Agreed and it's not even shit talking. It's just rude disgusting insults. Shit talking involved insulting the opponent's performance in the game. Actual RL insults about their RL was never a thing growing up for me. It's alien from my perspective. But maybe that's because we played side by side when I was a kid and you'd catch a punch to the face real quick from a buddy if you went over the line, lol.

Anton Sugar said:
It. Does. Not. Matter.

It doesn't make any difference. He (or the "gaming culture" at large) don't get to pick and choose the context in which words are used. Nobody in this thread thinks that he was talking about actually, physically raping her. We all know what he "meant", and it's still disgusting and inappropriate.
Click to expand...

Agreed. There are other words to use.
 
This guy got what he deserves.

pete_clarf said:
I'm still pretty new to these boards. Please tell me no one is going to come on here and defend this dipshit.
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there is literally a defense force for not washing your hands after you take a shit on this website. Using that as a standard it is safe to say that there is a defense force for EVERYTHING.
 
entrydenied said:
Honestly I think people can try to trash talk without invoking words like "rape" and "murder". I don't really think the context or the history of trash talk in gaming matters. It should be something for gamers to work towards avoiding.

I don't play competitive online games often, let alone speak through a mic, but if I hear anyone speaking like this I would probably report the person.
Click to expand...

I did totally agreed on the fact that it was a the stupidest comment to do, especially on twitter and especially after all the gamer gates crap, and I do believe that the tournament decision to ban him was fair and a good one.

What I fail to understand is how much a shitstorm it has become and how that guy is viewed like the most evil guy ever and anything below death penalty would not be enough. Everyone here agree it is not something you should say, especially to a woman, especially on something like twitter or Facebook. That is true, that is a fact and it is good that he has been punished for that. But what I don't understand is how you could actually believe that he meant anything else than "I am going to destroy you in game".

I mean, it's like this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktk4LWRXino
Do you actually thing it is a death threat worth reporting to the authorities? There is obviously no harm feelings between the two and it just mean he will just play better and win. Stupid, yes but nobody gaves a shit.

Now, posting what Kas said on tweeter is obviously different because she is a woman and this word, in this context, carry a lot more weight, but there is not doubt that it was not a rape threat.
 
Jotaka said:
For me, this just show how infantile is the mentality of people from the e-sports. I can't take serious most of them.
Click to expand...

The companies who make these games and run the big tournaments need to start cleaning house. I don't understand why commentators and players are continually allowed to participate after making blatant racist, sexist, and generally offensive comments. It is absolutely rampant.
 
jrh2 said:
The companies who make these games and run the big tournaments need to start cleaning house. I don't understand why commentators and players are continually allowed to participate after making blatant racist, sexist, and generally offensive comments. It is absolutely rampant.
Click to expand...

They benefit from the status quo. Once this controversy dies down, it's business as usual until the next one. They'd rather just clean up the mess rather than address the source of the problem.
 
RMI said:
This guy got what he deserves.



there is literally a defense force for not washing your hands after you take a shit on this website. Using that as a standard it is safe to say that there is a defense force for EVERYTHING.
Click to expand...

No one is defending him.

There are a few people who think his punishment is a little heavy-handed, on the other hand. Those people are just trying to add a bit of context and perspective to the issue rather than jump on the "hang 'em high" bandwagon.
 
Vana said:
I did totally agreed on the fact that it was a the stupidest comment to do, especially on twitter and especially after all the gamer gates crap, and I do believe that the tournament decision to ban him was fair and a good one.

What I fail to understand is how much a shitstorm it has become and how that guy is viewed like the most evil guy ever and anything below death penalty would not be enough. Everyone here agree it is not something you should say, especially to a woman, especially on something like twitter or Facebook. That is true, that is a fact and it is good that he has been punished for that. But what I don't understand is how you could actually believe that he meant anything else than "I am going to destroy you in game".

I mean, it's like this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktk4LWRXino
Do you actually thing it is a death threat worth reporting to the authorities? There is obviously no harm feelings between the two and it just mean he will just play better and win. Stupid, yes but nobody gaves a shit.

Now, posting what Kas said on tweeter is obviously different because she is a woman and this word, in this context, carry a lot more weight, but there is not doubt that it was not a rape threat.
Click to expand...

I don't think most people think that he's an evil person and I don't think he should get a lifetime ban. However this incident opens up a good point of discussion regarding the use of such insults in gaming trashtalk and me, along with some of us here, feel that such language could be kept out of trashtalking. This is especially important if esports wants to be seen as a legitimate form of sports that can stand among other types of sports.

We know that he meant that he wants to destroy the competition. What I don't agree with is the language that he has chosen. Why can't anyone just write something like "I am confident that I will win tomorrow" or "No room for negotiation, I'm gonna win" or "Tomorrow's competition is leagues behind me" if you really want to be cocky and yet be civil. Why must gaming trashtalk consist of such terms that make gamers sound like infantile children? Culture can be changed slowly through discussion and by speaking out. We don't have to dismiss it by handwaving and saying that perpertuaters aren't really going to murder or rape anyone. People know that. That doesn't mean the language is ok.
 
Phades said:
The source of the problem is outside the realm of their influence. They can only moderate issues as they enter their realm.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately true.

If the community itself is toxic, banning everyone just results in lost profits and lost community members.

The community needs to be changed, and fracturing it completely won't do that. They'll just move on to somewhere else where the toxic behavior is allowed.
 
angrygnat said:
To say you raped, murdered, killed, destroyed etc another team thats one thing. That falls in the category of trashtalk. Its expected. Teams are prepared for it. To say you are going to rape a girl? Now you're getting specific. You're getting personal. That falls in the catagory of being at the very least insensitive, and at worst, criminal. If he didn't know it was wrong, i suspect he does now.
Click to expand...
I dunno man I have heard gamers say im about to rape this dude or these these guys or this guy for years while gaming competitive online and there has never been no huge uproar. However if you are participating in a event you should be a little more careful on what you are saying. Why put emphasis on the rape a girl thing when saying you are going to rape a guy is just as bad. Rape in general is bad.
 
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