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[Afrocious]

I don't think there can be a unanimous lifetime ban on tournaments since the tourneys are hosted by different folks and companies. It would be left to them to decide if they want the dude playing.

I do think if the tournament he's in decided to prohibit him from playing in their tourney ever again, then they have every justifiable right to do so. Furthermore, if other tourney hosts decide to prohibit him because of this news, then they can do the same.

I've tweeted things I regret too, but that's mostly autotweets from Kim Kardashian Hollywood. His stuff is way beyond that.

He is stupid.

Spoiler

But you are evil.

 

[Afrocious]

doubles

 

[L Thammy]

[*]Even if the decision was taken by the tournament administration there has been some backlash against the player the tweet was directed at.

Gross

Spoiler

gaters

.

 

[thetrin]

Man, that tweet really can't be interpreted any other way, can it?

It wasn't even a poorly worded metaphor, or a misuse of the word in a video game context. It's just...right there. And it's fucking disgusting.

 

[Zaku]

That's not a lifetime ban.

That's what I'm getting at here. A lifetime ban is the nuclear option: It's what you use when you say "This guy is an irredeemable, piece of shit who has no business being associated with this in any way, shape, or form."

People are treating this not like something incredibly stupid to say that should be punished, but like it's the worst possible crime imaginable and it has forever tainted him and esports as a whole.

It's completely blowing things out of proportion.

Yes, punish him. Hell, I'd call a single tourney disqualification getting off light, but a lifetime ban should be a special punishment reserved for repeat offenders. It's not something you pull out from the word go outside of something egregiously bad like actual physical violence or other criminal offenses.

 

[Handy Fake]

I get what you're saying, but assigning deliberate malice is also beside the point. He clearly meant his statement to draw on structures of violent oppression, even if he didn't mean he would literally commit the act. That seems pretty malicious to me. I just don't see a way around it.

I meant the term "malicious" as in him using the term "rape" to be deliberately disgusting. Like I say, I think it's a widespread thing that unthinking kids and young-adults and Alan Pardew uses willy-nilly to ascribe a sense of overt dominance.

Not that I approve, I think it should be stamped out as much as possible. I just think they were a bit heavy-handed with the punishment.

 

[Petrae]

There's a reason companies now usually have sections in their employee handbook about social media presence.

If I said something like that in a public forum and my company found out, I would be fired pretty much on the spot. That's pretty much SOP these days. If your social media behavior reflects poorly on your place of employment, even if just by association, you aren't going to be an employee there for much longer in many cases.

Exactly. And, with so many other cases of offensive social media behavior leading to discipline and/or termination, I don't quite understand why people are still struggling to get the basic concept of how to behave online.

 

[Riposte]

So... Question for everyone calling for a lifetime ban.

If you ever said something stupid and senseless at work, would you be okay with a lifetime ban from your current career? Because that's basically what you're saying here: One screw up, and you have to start over from scratch.

Let's be real here: What he did was bad, but not "fuck off forever and never come back" bad.

Stories like this (which is most stories on OT) are primarily propagated as voyeuristic opportunities to imagine and revel in revenge (justice) scenarios; get emotionally invested in something so distant from you it might as well be fantasy (symbolic possibly), imagine a villainous force to oppose, and relish the harm or imagined harm revisited on that other. This power-fantasy feels good, if not addicting, perhaps filling a void (news/message boards as a medium of entertainment, the one with the highest realism). Of course, a year-long ban, let alone a lifetime ban, would be a little extreme for a single trashy tweet (in "real" sports you get something like "3 game suspensions" (arguably less than a whole tournament) for worse), but extremeness is more satisfying in the moment and entertainment is about satisfaction.

The delusions of grandeur that defines eSports comes with a lot of responsibilities and debts. At least here, I think they did a decent enough job of living up to that. However, I'm fine if communities I consider myself apart of never has those delusions. The prospect of a "lifetime ban" is a scary one and becomes much more possible the more interconnected (less grassroots/personal) things become.

 

[Haunted]

Kas pls

I remember his memorable run during the TSL3 and his casting during some of the earlier Homestory Cups. Always seemed like a nice enough guy.

That said, that tweet was completely inappropriate and the ban well deserved.

 

[Anton Sugar]

1. real rape is horribel, there is no discussion

that said, he used this to provoke his enemy, i think people here are overreacting as soon as the word is beeing used... (and as i said, rape is horribel. doesnt change the fact that its a metaphor in gaming and widely used. is it hard to differentiate or is this word not allowed in general and for having another view im vile shit now?) :/

The "use the most vile thing you can think of as an insult" defense is not a defense at all. You do not use words in a vacuum--context is everything. I can't call someone a "nigger" JUST because I think it will make them angry, and not suffer any consequences myself.

In addition, "rape" isn't one of those words that has (nor, IMO, will it ever) reached status as a word to use as a casual insult. It's been used in gaming for a while now, yes, but I have NEVER been comfortable hearing it used. Why use it when you have plenty of other words that aren't defined as sexual violence?

 

[Maddocks]

Damn. Didn't even add a lol or a haha. So disrespectful, and so blatant. No one would take that we a joke. Ban is the only option.

 

[frequency]

Thumbs up to the Fragbite Masters staff for this decision. I hope eventually this kind of stuff can be completely stamped out in e-sports.

 

[Haunted]

When will people learn that you gotta be careful on twitter?

Never, obviously. There are so many young/stupid people with access to it.

 

[NobleGundam]

Dude gets what he deserves for such a tweet. Highly inappropriate.

 

[Stet]

btw, dont forget what gank ment...

???

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Good
They shouldn't be supporting him

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Seems a little extreme, honestly.

But, the dude's clearly a bit of a moron, so I can't say I feel particularly bad for him.

 

[HereticJ]

I'm more offended by some reactions here than what the dude said on Twitter, which when read in context, is a benign statement. Stupid use of words but what he meant was harmless.

So the guy says "I'm going to beat these people in a game." and words it in the WORST POSSIBLE WAY. BY FAR. I can't think of a worse way to say it. Just because the word "rape" was used in conjunction with a female, the internet becomes Fox News vs. Obama.

I would love if they made this guy apologize, specifically to his opponents - in a public way and allow them to choose whether or not he gets to play in the match. Anyone following these games enough will know of this incident and learn to erase the word from their gamer vocab if it exists. Banning the guy is doing nothing more than fulfilling some need for vengeance - something far worse than what this guy has done.

So hate me all you want for saying this, I'll take it. It's more important than ever in this internet age that we judge context and not content and learn to think critically instead of reacting like Salem witch hunters whenever the forbidden words are spoken. Yeah, punish the guy for making a stupid mistake so he learns not to and others learn not to. Let's not perpetuate the kind of hostility we're so upset about in the first place.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Haha, what? Lifetime ban? Some of you are ridiculous.

He got what he deserved for it, though.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Can't really defend that tweet.

He shouldn't have said it and he's paying for it.

 

[Zaku]

Stories like this (which is most stories on OT) are primarily propagated as voyeuristic opportunities to imagine and revel in revenge (justice) scenarios; get emotionally invested in something so distant from you it might as well be fantasy (symbolic possibly), imagine a villainous force to oppose, and relish the harm or imagined harm revisited on that other. This power-fantasy feels good, if not addicting, perhaps filling a void (news/message boards as a medium of entertainment, the one with the highest realism). Of course, a year-long ban, let alone a lifetime ban, would be a little extreme for a single trashy tweet (in "real" sports you get something like "3 game suspensions" (arguably less than a whole tournament) for worse), but extremeness is more satisfying in the moment and entertainment is about satisfaction.

The delusions of grandeur that defines eSports comes with a lot of responsibilities and debts. At least here, I think they did a decent enough job of living up to that. However, I'm fine if communities I consider myself apart of never has those delusions. The prospect of a "lifetime ban" is a scary one and becomes much more possible the more interconnected (less grassroots/personal) things become.

My whole problem with the "lifetime ban" crowd is that it eliminates discussion and context. As horrific as the practice is, quite a few gamers use "rape" as a synonym for "destroy", not as a threat of actual rape. Let's not pretend this was an actual rape threat, here.

Certainly he should be punished, and he was: This fuck up cost him credibility and a chance at a $20,000 prize pot, which he was very close to getting before it happened. It might also cost him current or potential future sponsors. The punishment as-is suitable for the offense, especially with the apology the player issued.

If we slap lifetime bans on everybody who says a single stupid thing, esports would dissolve: All but the most level-headed players are going to say something stupid or offensive over the course of their careers, especially in the flush of victory or in the moment: Throwing them out forever the moment they say something bad is a bit of an overreaction, to say the least.

Scale up the punishments and end it with a lifetime ban for repeated and/or unrepentant offenders, certainly, but from the word go? That's just silly.

 

[thetrin]

So... Question for everyone calling for a lifetime ban.

If you ever said something stupid and senseless at work, would you be okay with a lifetime ban from your current career? Because that's basically what you're saying here: One screw up, and you have to start over from scratch.

Let's be real here: What he did was bad, but not "fuck off forever and never come back" bad.

There are degrees of screwing up. Calling a client the wrong name is not the same as saying "I'm going to go rape a girl" in public.

This is a pretty fucking monumental screw up.

 

[stump sock]

when read in context, is a benign statement.

no.

 

[Paracelsus]

He should've been banned but for poor sportsmanship, else you are asking for a slippery slope.

 

[GhostTrick]

Usually, I'd say its fair to tease or annoy your opponent... but seriously ?
Rape ? What the heck is wrong with that guy.
That comment was both offensive and sexist.


He deserve what happened.

 

[Jenenser]

The "use the most vile thing you can think of as an insult" defense is not a defense at all. You do not use words in a vacuum--context is everything. I can't call someone a "nigger" JUST because I think it will make them angry, and not suffer any consequences myself.

In addition, "rape" isn't one of those words that has (nor, IMO, will it ever) reached status as a word to use as a casual insult. It's been used in gaming for a while now, yes, but I have NEVER been comfortable hearing it used. Why use it when you have plenty of other words that aren't defined as sexual violence?

true.
but i didn't see the word rape as an insult, seen it rather as a metaphor for overpowering/dominating the enemy without much defense... seen it more as a taiunt than an insult. oh well, sry if i offended anyone :/
so rape=gettin rekt (like the people now love to say)

btw, tought gank was related to the term gangbang. is it not?!

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

So hate me all you want for saying this, I'll take it. It's more important than ever in this internet age that we judge context and not content and learn to think critically instead of reacting like Salem witch hunters whenever the forbidden words are spoken. Yeah, punish the guy for making a stupid mistake so he learns not to and others learn not to. Let's not perpetuate the kind of hostility we're so upset about in the first place.

Cant be said enough. Too many people are offended without actually looking at the context of what is said. Its a symptom of 140 character messages became one of the default forms of communication.

Twitter in general is just a walking timebomb of offensive material. People need to learn to not use it for conversation.

 

[TheDarkTriforce]

He deserves a lifetime ban for that.

This!!!

 

[The Blackrose]

So... Question for everyone calling for a lifetime ban.

If you ever said something stupid and senseless at work, would you be okay with a lifetime ban from your current career? Because that's basically what you're saying here: One screw up, and you have to start over from scratch.

Let's be real here: What he did was bad, but not "fuck off forever and never come back" bad.

Not advocating for a lifetime ban, however when you pull something like this and get canned for it, it can come back to haunt you in future prospects.

All it takes is one person calling the previous employer, getting the "No, we wouldn't hire them again" response (because that is the legal extent they can speak on the matter), followed by an interview question along the lines of, "So what did you do to piss off X company such that they never want to see your face again?" The interviewee will have to fight an uphill battle the second he admits that he said something that could be viewed as hostile in a workplace environment. Especially if it's a workplace environment that is on a diversity kick.

Now keep in mind that since the incident occurred, Kas has been making the right moves. However, judging from posts on TL and Reddit, the SC community as a whole has been outright shit.

 

[kittens]

Sweet, I appreciate the tournament organizers taking action on this.

 

[TheHall]

true.
but i didn't see the word rape as an insult, seen it rather as a metaphor for overpowering/dominating the enemy without much defense... seen it more as a taiunt than an insult. oh well, sry if i offended anyone :/
so rape=gettin rekt (like the people now love to say)

Which is exactly what is wrong with the online culture

 

[t hicks]

What a piece of shit.

this.

 

[L Thammy]

I do agree that a lifetime ban would be harsh, but the way he worded the statement makes me think that he wasn't just falling into the use of "rape" as careless Internet lingo. The fact that he referred to his opponent as "some girl" rather than by her screen name in particular. Could he have not added "in Starfcraft" in the character limit?

 

[Popnbake]

Man, that tweet really can't be interpreted any other way, can it?

It wasn't even a poorly worded metaphor, or a misuse of the word in a video game context. It's just...right there. And it's fucking disgusting.

It can be interpreted as a dumbass using a term that can unfortunately represent owning someone in a competition.

Good lord that tweet was awful.

 

[Zaku]

Not advocating for a lifetime ban, however when you pull something like this and get canned for it, it can come back to haunt you in future prospects.

All it takes is one person calling the previous employer, getting the "No, we wouldn't hire them again" response (because that is the legal extent they can speak on the matter), followed by an interview question along the lines of, "So what did you do to piss off X company such that they never want to see your face again?" The interviewee will have to fight an uphill battle the second he admits that he said something that could be viewed as hostile in a workplace environment. Especially if it's a workplace environment that is on a diversity kick.

Now keep in mind that since the incident occurred, Kas has been making the right moves. However, judging from posts on TL and Reddit, the SC community as a whole has been outright shit.

And that's entirely fair. I'm not saying the black mark should go away, even if that were possible in this day and age. Let his actions before and more importantly after color him, not the one statement made on twitter.

If a player continues to be a stupid idiot, yes, a lifetime ban, either explicit or just tacit because no tourney will touch them, is entirely appropriate.

Over one incident? It's an overreaction, plain and simple, especially in the context.

 

[mbmonk]

He deserves a lifetime ban for that.

A life time ban for a tweet that he admits is a mistake and apologized for? Does the above punishment really fit the crime? Don't give me this... "we need to set a precedence" bs crap. You make the punishment fit the crime, bottom line. Punishments that fit the crime are fair to the offender, victim, and the community.

 

[Kinokou]

1. real rape is horribel, there is no discussion

that said, he used this to provoke his enemy, i think people here are overreacting as soon as the word is beeing used... (and as i said, rape is horribel. doesnt change the fact that its a metaphor in gaming and widely used. is it hard to differentiate or is this word not allowed in general and for having another view im vile shit now?) :/

whatever, he got his ban so it wasn't apropriate i guess.

btw, dont forget what gank ment...

Well the provocation part didn't have any effect gameplay wise since she first saw it after the match, and I'm with the crowed that don't find tries to recontextualize the meaning of rapes acceptable. It's a real horrid insult to throw around casually.

Gross

Spoiler

gaters

.

I actually dug up her blog a bit after making the thread and found one of the comments she got ”hello drama queen , i hope ur not gonna cry to much arent u? or u did already? pathetic”, it's from another starcraft player but I don't know if they were in the tournament.

I will allow my self to borrow their wording, it's kind of a pathetic comment considering the organizers apparently made their decision before she knew about the tweet.

 

[binaryrevolt]

Hmm please don't kill me for this. In gaming culture does rape really mean anything sexual? I hear people say "damn bro you got raped" and things to that effect all the time and I never associated it with that vile disgusting act.

But...... If he is a pro gamer I would expect some sort of professional demeanor and that tweet was poorly worded and uncalled for. I think it was right that they booted him.

 

[Aurongel]

He took his misogyny one step further by not referring to his opponent by name but instead as "some girl".

He deserved harsher punishment but I still commend the tournament organizers for kicking his juvenile ass to the curb.

 

[Jenenser]

Which is exactly what is wrong with the online culture

basis isnt the onlineculture here, do you know what ali said to his enemys to taunt them before a match?
its common in every kind of competition.

(btw, im the last guy who flames someone, so dont even start. but i get the reasoning they might have... a provoked/angered enemy plays worse)

 

[Zaku]

Hmm please don't kill me for this. In gaming culture does rape really mean anything sexual? I hear people say "damn bro you got raped" and things to that effect all the time and I never associated it with that vile disgusting act.

But...... If he is a pro gamer I would expect some sort of professional demeanor and that tweet was poorly worded and uncalled for. I think it was right that they booted him.

Yeah, it's frequently used as a synonym for "crushing defeat".

It's not a good practice of course, but the context here (however horrible) is that the player was stating he was going to demolish his opponent next round, not that he was going to go sexually assault a woman.

 

[MemoryHumanity]

Good. Bravo to those who issued the disqual.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

A life time ban for a tweet that he admits is a mistake and apologized for? Does the above punishment really fit the crime? Don't give me this... "we need to set a precedence" bs crap. You make the punishment fit the crime, bottom line. Punishments that fit the crime are fair to the offender, victim, and the community.

Spot on. Let his actions post-tweet now speak for him. It is after such terrible things that one can truly find the measure of a person's character.

Calls for people's head and for their banning doesn't get us real change. "Consequences" don't change the improper and offensive use of words, conversations do. Let's see what the guy does now.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Hmm please don't kill me for this. In gaming culture does rape really mean anything sexual? I hear people say "damn bro you got raped" and things to that effect all the time and I never associated it with that vile disgusting act.

Again, just because "gamers"/"gaming culture" uses the word in a certain context, doesn't mean you can ignore the largely understood context/definition of the word.

They are plenty of other words that can be used instead of "rape" in those situations.

The casual use of "rape" in gaming is a stain on the culture and, quite frankly, embarrassing as fuck.

 

[Storm Raider]

While normally a persons' social network is their own business, and shouldn't relate to their 'professional' lives really; this tweet is fucking stupid.

Like holy shit why on earth would you think or even TWEET IT?

If he said 'wreck' 'own' 'defeat' or even 'knock out' would have been better.


But let's be real here... If a girl would have said this, would it have been different?

 

[TheHall]

Hmm please don't kill me for this. In gaming culture does rape really mean anything sexual? I hear people say "damn bro you got raped" and things to that effect all the time and I never associated it with that vile disgusting act.

But...... If he is a pro gamer I would expect some sort of professional demeanor and that tweet was poorly worded and uncalled for. I think it was right that they booted him.

In that line of thinking, is calling someone a nigger, REALLY racist?

IS it?

Should people really worry if you tell them you are going to kill them irl?


We shouldn't normalize this kind of online bullshit because it's toxic to the industry

 

[vicissitudes]

How would people feel if he tweeted "going to destroy some girl soon"?

Because that's basically what he meant, but said in the worst way possible. There needs to be an educational process where gamers learn to not use certain words for certain situations.

Punishment fits the crime.

 

[Zaku]

In that line of thinking, is calling someone a nigger, REALLY racist?

IS it?

Should people really worry if you tell them you are going to kill them irl?

We shouldn't normalize this kind of online bullshit because it's toxic to the industry

If there's anyone in this thread condoning it, I haven't seen them.

There seems to be two camps here: "The punishment fit, let's see what he'll do in future" and "Crucify this bastard".

 

[Crowbear]

Hmm please don't kill me for this. In gaming culture does rape really mean anything sexual? I hear people say "damn bro you got raped" and things to that effect all the time and I never associated it with that vile disgusting act.

But...... If he is a pro gamer I would expect some sort of professional demeanor and that tweet was poorly worded and uncalled for. I think it was right that they booted him.

Words have meanings and trying to change their definitions when it's convenient is some grade A bullshit.

If I showed up at work and said "I'm gonna lynch a nigger today! By the way me and my friends say lynch when we mean work hard at and nigger when we mean a big project" do you think I would keep my job?

People trying to justify this garbage just because it's common in competitive gaming are the worst. Instead of trying to convince people that it's ok because gamers have been doing it for a while maybe we should try and get gamers to stop taking the word so lightly?!?!

 

[stump sock]

Let me reiterate; there is no context where it's "okay" to say that in a public forum. I don't care what it means "in context." If you are talking to friends in a private forum and you can throw terms like that back and forth, then who cares. Just because you post on 4chan, it doesn't mean you can go around in the rest of the world calling people "fags" because it's not offensive in your own clique.

So yes, context may be everything, but not in the way some of you are claiming. The context here is that he said that in a public forum, in relation to something pertaining to his actual source of income. That's irresponsible.