Starcraft 2 player disqualified from tournament because of rape tweet

it doesn't fucking matter what "rape" means in the context of "gaming culture."

"Gaming culture" doesn't exist in a vacuum. There is an entire world out there where telling a person you're going to "rape" them isn't a very nice thing to do.

Those of you defending the use of the word, I hope you don't complain about people not taking gaming or esports seriously because it's shit like this that turns women away from wanting to compete, and people from wanting to give a shit in general.
 
He failed at trash talk, people make a bigger thing out of it as it is. Yes, rape is one of the worst things there is but I doubt most people using it as a term of trash talk do want to glorify it.

People trash talk and it is not like the other terms are much better if we take them literally.
 
Zaku said:
And that's entirely fair. I'm not saying the black mark should go away, even if that were possible in this day and age. Let his actions before and more importantly after color him, not the one statement made on twitter.

If a player continues to be a stupid idiot, yes, a lifetime ban, either explicit or just tacit because no tourney will touch them, is entirely appropriate.

Over one incident? It's an overreaction, plain and simple, especially in the context.
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Agreed, which is why I ended with noting that Kas has been at least attempting to apologize and settle the situation. As long as he understands that what he said is absolutely unacceptable in this day and age.

That being said, I'm disgusted by what the situation has been morphed into by the other elements in the community. Things like victim blaming, attempting to pass the buck (eg. saying the FGC is worse), trying to play themselves as the victim, "It's not that bad, other people say it all the time," etc. Not that I'm surprised that it has come to this.
 
binaryrevolt said:
Hmm please don't kill me for this. In gaming culture does rape really mean anything sexual? I hear people say "damn bro you got raped" and things to that effect all the time and I never associated it with that vile disgusting act.
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It doesn't literally mean anything sexual because the interactions in the game themselves are not sexual. For all the times you hear people say: "damn bro you got raped" I've heard "damn bro you got anal raped" or "prepare your anus, cus I'm gonna rape you", so it's not like the meaning is totally absent from the expression in a gaming context. Obviously (I hope) most people don't actually mean physically rape an opponent when they use the expression, even literally like in this case.

It is still completely inappropriate that its use is so widespread and accepted, something a lot of people can't or don't want to grasp just because they feel it doesn't mean what it actually means.

Pai Pai Master said:
it doesn't fucking matter what "rape" means in the context of "gaming culture." "Gaming culture" doesn't exist in a vacuum.
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Pretty much this.
 
Crowbear said:
Words have meanings and trying to change their definitions when it's convenient is some grade A bullshit.

If I showed up at work and said "I'm gonna lynch a nigger today! By the way me and my friends say lynch when we mean work hard at and nigger when we mean a big project" do you think I would keep my job?

People trying to justify this garbage just because it's common in competitive gaming are the worst. Instead of trying to convince people that it's ok because gamers have been doing it for a while maybe we should try and get gamers to stop taking the word so lightly?!?!
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You're acting like that's a conversation the gaming world isn't having constantly.

It's changing. The fact he even got DQed is a sign of change: Anyone remember someone screaming "Bitch! Bitch! Rape that bitch!" while a Jean Grey was getting smoked during a MVC tourney? I doubt that sort of behavior would fly today, which is a positive sign.

Also, let's not pretend this is something he came up with randomly. However horrific it is that it even happened in the first place, "rape" is in gamer vernacular as a synonym for "destroy".

He didn't come up with it in a vacuum.
 
Seems appropriate. In this day and age you have to be very careful what you say online. It's doubly true if you're under the spotlight in any way.
 
Zaku said:
You're acting like that's a conversation the gaming world isn't having constantly.

It's changing. The fact he even got DQed is a sign of change: Anyone remember someone screaming "Bitch! Bitch! Rape that bitch!" while a Jean Grey was getting smoked during a MVC tourney? I doubt that sort of behavior would fly today, which is a positive sign.

Also, let's not pretend this is something he came up with randomly. However horrific it is that it even happened in the first place, "rape" is in gamer vernacular as a synonym for "destroy".

He didn't come up with it in a vacuum.
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Gamer culture is a subset of a much larger culture where using the word "rape" in that way is absolutely unacceptable. Just because he self-categorizes himself into the gamer subculture does not give him amnesty from how he's perceived by our culture as a whole.

I understand you're not exactly defending him here, but let's not act like people should be given a pass for things like this just because they are part of some subculture.
 
Zaku said:
My whole problem with the "lifetime ban" crowd is that it eliminates discussion and context. As horrific as the practice is, quite a few gamers use "rape" as a synonym for "destroy", not as a threat of actual rape. Let's not pretend this was an actual rape threat, here.

Certainly he should be punished, and he was: This fuck up cost him credibility and a chance at a $20,000 prize pot, which he was very close to getting before it happened. It might also cost him current or potential future sponsors. The punishment as-is suitable for the offense, especially with the apology the player issued.

If we slap lifetime bans on everybody who says a single stupid thing, esports would dissolve: All but the most level-headed players are going to say something stupid or offensive over the course of their careers, especially in the flush of victory or in the moment: Throwing them out forever the moment they say something bad is a bit of an overreaction, to say the least.

Scale up the punishments and end it with a lifetime ban for repeated and/or unrepentant offenders, certainly, but from the word go? That's just silly.
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But even if it was a lifetime ban from one SC2 league, there are other leagues that he could enter and compete in. I think him being banned from that sponsors tourneys is just. I know all gamers have their "not so PC" colloquialisms, but everyone needs to realize that twitter , and most social media, do not offer context to those statements, and we should act accordingly, because the internet never forgets.
 
TheHall said:
In that line of thinking, is calling someone a nigger, REALLY racist?

IS it?

Should people really worry if you tell them you are going to kill them irl?


We shouldn't normalize this kind of online bullshit because it's toxic to the industry
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Thank you for a perfect example. In my community people call each other niggas all the time and it is perfectly fine. To an outsider, it may not be okay and definitely should not be used in a professional setting.

Edit: Since people didn't quote my entire post, I do think that this is wrong and he should have been banned. I do not think that these words should be propagated and they do sound terrible.
 
Zaku said:
You're acting like that's a conversation the gaming world isn't having constantly.

It's changing. The fact he even got DQed is a sign of change: Anyone remember someone screaming "Bitch! Bitch! Rape that bitch!" while a Jean Grey was getting smoked during a MVC tourney? I doubt that sort of behavior would fly today, which is a positive sign.

Also, let's not pretend this is something he came up with randomly. However horrific it is that it even happened in the first place, "rape" is in gamer vernacular as a synonym for "destroy".

He didn't come up with it in a vacuum.
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I'm not pretending it came up randomly. It being in the vernacular is the whole problem. It shouldn't be used in the context of games in the first place, and the fact that it often is is not a valid defense when a normal person hears and is offended by it.

Using threats of sexual violence lightly is one of the most vile parts of gaming culture and I'm pretty sure it's a big reason why women are underrepresented in competitive games.
 
binaryrevolt said:
Thank you for a perfect example. In my community people call each other niggas all the time and it is perfectly fine. To an outsider, it may not be okay and definitely should not be used in a professional setting.
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A turn of phrase that has its roots in misogyny and actual violence isn't the same thing, though?
 
Zaku said:
Also, let's not pretend this is something he came up with randomly. However horrific it is that it even happened in the first place, "rape" is in gamer vernacular as a synonym for "destroy".

He didn't come up with it in a vacuum.
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It's a bit of a slippery slope to compare this to "ignorance of the law is no excuse" so take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt here, but not knowing that a common phrase in your social circles might be offensive to the world at large shouldn't absolve you of your actions in situations like this.

The first step in trying to remedy this kind of behavior is to draw a line in the sand like we have here and say "this is not appropriate, and this is what happens."

Given recent events, I'd say that eliminating this vacuum is pretty much the best possible thing that could happen to video games right now.
 
Afrocious said:
I think using rape as a way to say you're better than someone at a game is trite and disgusting. Also tasteless. "Oh I got raped!" No you didn't. You got your ass kicked and you got schooled, but you didn't get raped.
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Well, you wouldn't have gotten your "ass kicked" either, and why are you glorifying physical beatings?! At the end of the day they're both metaphors that aren't exactly tasteful when you think about them.
Call me PC, but we really don't need to be using rape so lightly when society is finally beginning to take slight notice of subtle social inequalities that are downright frightening to women, like how rape is a far real and greater threat to them than it is for men as a general statistic.
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I agree the use should be discouraged, I think a DQ is probably an OK way of accomplishing that. A "lifetime" ban is way overboard considering the context.
You can make way better insults and comments without using rape either. "I'm about to make this girl ask for a refund." "I am the leading cause of diabetes in SC2." etc.
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Those are terrible.
 
I think using the term rape to describe anything else is in poor taste, regardless of setting/context/target.

This dude said something dumb, and now has to suffer the consequences.
 
What a stupid tweet Jesus Christ, how do you lack the personal awareness to see that shit like that won't go well with anyone?
 
Crowbear said:
It being in the vernacular is the whole problem.
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These are still people talking to other people and every word is a choice. It's still people choosing to use the word "rape" while you can easy use "destroy" or something similar.

And for that reason, extremely harsh punishments in the public space are a good thing.
"Gaming" in general won't miss this one particular dude, he can go back to playing games for fun like everyone else.

Being able to make money off it is a privilege, "we" don't owe him a job.
 
Marcel said:
A turn of phrase that has its roots in misogyny and actual violence isn't the same thing, though?
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The word nigger doesn't have roots in actual violence? Okay.

Words mean different things to different people. Again I think his ban was justified but he was using something that is considered socially acceptable in the gaming community. I do not agree that it should be socially acceptable, therefore I have no problems with him getting booted.
 
Aurongel said:
Gamer culture is a subset of a much larger culture where using the word "rape" in that way is absolutely unacceptable. Just because he self-categorizes himself into the gamer subculture does not give him amnesty from how he's perceived by our culture as a whole.

I understand you're not exactly defending him here, but let's not act like people should be given a pass for things like this just because they are part of some subculture.
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I've never said he should be given a pass, or that anyone should. All I've said is that a lifetime ban is an excessively harsh punishment for the single offense.

He got his disqualifications, he apologized, and so long as he doesn't do it again he shouldn't be crucified for it.
 
binaryrevolt said:
Thank you for a perfect example. In my community people call each other niggas all the time and it is perfectly fine. To an outsider, it may not be okay and definitely should not be used in a professional setting.

Edit: Since people didn't quote my entire post, I do think that this is wrong and he should have been banned. I do not think that these words should be propagated and they do sound terrible.
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Not criticizing anyone here, but this particular word reclamation is often used to justify totally unrelated stuff. 4chan's use of "fag" in particular. It's kind of ridiculous.
 
pete_clarf said:
I'm still pretty new to these boards. Please tell me no one is going to come on here and defend this dipshit.
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oh boy.

There's a defense force for everything on GAF. and I mean everything. Just when you think "no one will defend this" out come one or two people.

Have fun and enjoy the show
 
Uh, fucking good. Glad to know that some Tourneys are professional enough to do the proper thing. While I do appreciate his apology, his punishment is no less appropriate. Maybe he'll take it as a learning experience.
 
binaryrevolt said:
The word nigger doesn't have roots in actual violence? Okay.

Words mean different things to different people. Again I think his ban was justified but he was using something that is considered socially acceptable in the gaming community. I do not agree that it should be socially acceptable, therefore I have no problems with him getting booted.
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You know I'm talking about sexual violence, women, and the specific minimizing language of this issue, which is a separate issue entirely from the use of the word nigger. Trying to paint me as ignorant of history is pretty low on your part.
 
binaryrevolt said:
Thank you for a perfect example. In my community people call each other niggas all the time and it is perfectly fine. To an outsider, it may not be okay and definitely should not be used in a professional setting.

Edit: Since people didn't quote my entire post, I do think that this is wrong and he should have been banned. I do not think that these words should be propagated and they do sound terrible.
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I think, you think i am agreeing with you....

I don't.

Also "May not be ok" is an understatement
 
Don't know if this has been posted yet but NightEnD (A Romanian progamer) made this a bit worse:
ZeR8POf.png

https://twitter.com/NightEnDD/status/535881157598924800
 
Inorigo said:
It was "fuck off forever and never come back" bad.

No one is entitled to a career playing video games or even a career at all. People must take responsibility for their actions.
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I think this is the defining point that needs to be made here.

Playing games for money is a privilege. Indeed one of the crazier privileges on the planet. Conduct abuse causing you to be stripped of your right to seek major financial compensation through playing games is no different than an athlete being banned from his/her sport for distasteful off-the-field activities. Said athlete is free to find gainful employment in other careers, but the privilege of enjoying that one was abused and lost.

We don't need people that think this way in esports and he can serve as an effective example.
 
Vana said:
As someone that follow the starcraft scene, here is my 2 cents:

1. No matter how bad taste it seems, rape "joke" or, killing are often said in any competitive game, just like a classic trash talk to your opponent, things like "I will kill him", "it will be a rape" or stuff like that are often said without anyone complaining about it when its said from man to man. Of course, saying "i'm going to rape you" to women, even if it is in the same context so clearly not a real threat, is way more offending to them and it is understandable that Maddelisk was offended.

2. The women in question was invited in this tournament not because of her skills as she is kind of low level but because of her gender, which is also -in my opinion but off topic- a little bit problematic.

3. Anyway, in this context, knowing the skill of its opponent it is clear, without any doubt imo, that his tweet was not like a threat of sexually or physical violence but just that he was to win easily (which he did, since as a matter of fact the game was played before the decision to ban him was taken after).

I don't want to defend Kas, because it was really an extra-dumb thing to say in a public media, especially now with all the #gamergate stuff and the tournament is in his right to ban him, joking about rape is clearly not a good thing as this word carry a lot of weight. But as bad as it is, the shitstorm after it with extreme and polarized overreactions on both "sides" ("it just a word!!! " " you all are misogynist rapist!!!" seems crazy to me and exploded out of proportion.
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What the fuck has the bold got to do with anything?
 
Zero tolerance is a nice start on behalf of the tournament organizers.

The sad reality is if you did the same for fag and nigger, a community like twitch would have about five users left.
 
Time to add one more to the list of people where social media has been the cause of their downfall. Is it really so hard to understand that saying offensive stuff to a global audience has consequences?

It's good that the tournament is cracking down on this sort of stuff, though I do think the punishment is a little lenient. A lifetime ban might be a little harsh for a first offence, but I wouldn't be disappointed if that were to happen. I think a one or a two year ban would be better.
 
Marcel said:
You know I'm talking about sexual violence, women, and the specific minimizing language of this issue, which is a separate issue entirely from the use of the word nigger. Trying to paint me as ignorant of history is pretty low on your part.
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I did not make the equalization to the word nigger, someone else did. It does serve as an example of a word that was appropriated to mean something different within a specific community. Sorry if you took offense it is not my intention.

Unfortunately, I have no idea on how we can stop it since it's been going on a very long time. It brings back awful memories for me if I took what they said literally. Maybe it is just a self defense mechanism on my part to accept the gamer definition of the word rape.

If I could eradicate it from the gamer lingo I would, but I have no idea where to start. It has been going on for a very very long time.
 
Also my two cents: Kas is never known for being a bad mannered player, he probably don't really understand the severity of the word as English is not his first language, and he took the punishment he deserves so that should be done and dusted.

On the other hand NightEnD is quite known as not being a gentleman so I wasn't really surprised about his tweet, but still shocked by what he said and the fact that he left that tweet there.
 
I thought he was just some foreign teenage kid trying to sound like a "cool American"..........dude is actually 25 years old. :/

apparently he has not been held accountable for his actions enough, growing up.
 
Good. Nothing else to say, people on the internet have been getting far too big for their boots recently. Nice to see someone actually meet with consequences for it.
 
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