Support NeoGAF

[LordAzrael]

What would change? Brown people would be harassed and killed by cops across america for no reason at all...oh wait, too late :/

What would change? Are you stupid? It would happen MORE. That's worse than now, right?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

We just need to get a black person in office and pass through some "don't shoot unarmed citizens" legislation.

That oughta do it.

It's... it's just so simple!

My God, all this death for nothing! If only we had realized sooner!

 

[Mesousa]

What good does looting and setting fires do?

You think the next time a white cop is in a situation where he's about to shoot to a black person he'll stop and be like "Oh, maybe I shouldn't. We're almost out of tear gas"?

It sucks, but people advocating violent demonstration as a valid tactic are ridiculously ignorant.

Or they will stop and think that there will be consequences for their actions before they kill a person?

 

[Rembrandt]

Right now there are a bunch of people, like me, defending everyone up there who is peacefully protesting and raising awareness.This cause has support and this cause is gaining traction, but it isn't an overnight operation. All of that goes out the window when you prove the ignorant people right.

Were you giving support for the multitude of other situations like this? The ignorant people don't need a valid reason to believe what they do. Riots or not, their perceptions of us are already rock bottom. I don't give a fuck if suddenly they think we might riot if we get killed for no reason. I'm glad we have your support, though. It truly means a lot and has changed so much.

 

[The Technomancer]

There's a difference between being painted in a bad light, and actually doing the shit that is the bad light. One side can be defended. The other side . . . well, let's just say it makes the ignorant criticism valid.

Which is irrelevant if the ignorant perspectives already control the power structures. As far as they're concerned its already valid and theres been several fucking decades (hell centuries) of trying to change that to no effect

 

[Nappuccino]

Or they will stop and think that there will be consequences for their actions before they kill a person?

The consequence shouldn't be violent people murdering cops.

Which is irrelevant if the ignorant perspectives already control the power structures. As far as they're concerned its already valid and theres been several fucking decades (hell centuries) of trying to change that to no avail

There are tons of people making the case against this perspective. There is no case if you prove the ignorant perspective correct.

 

[Malyse]

What good does looting and setting fires do?

You think the next time a white cop is in a situation where he's about to shoot to a black person he'll stop and be like "Oh, maybe I shouldn't. We're almost out of tear gas"?

It sucks, but people advocating violent demonstration as a valid tactic are ridiculously ignorant.

A riot is the language of the unheard.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

So ignorant.

 

[Mesousa]

What would change? Are you stupid? It would happen MORE. That's worse than now, right?

They do it as much as they want now though. If you think it would create an all out war then that is not possible.

 

[jakonovski]

Right now there are a bunch of people, like me, defending everyone up there who is peacefully protesting and raising awareness.This cause has support and this cause is gaining traction, but it isn't an overnight operation. All of that goes out the window when you prove the ignorant people right.

That could be read as black people's human rights being at the sufferance of white people.

 

[NegroNinja]

Then it'll be painted in a bad light, but the protests already were painted in a bad light to most people, so gives a fuck. There's already a huge racial divide. If rioting makes it worst, then literally anything we do will make it worse. Basically our options are: be ignored and keep getting killed or bring attention to these issues and hope they don't forget. Nothing is going to change because nothing hasn't changed yet. This isn't the first time this has happened, shit, this isn't even the worst and still, nothing has changed. We have peaceful protested and nothing has changed. We've blogged, wrote books, Gabe speeches and nothing has changed. I don't get what you want us to do.

I completely agree. At some point the some action has to be taken. Protestors are being outright ignored and assaulted. Rioting isn't the answer but the peaceful protests don't seem to be doing shit either. I've been to far too many vigils for dead friends to know that no one really gives a shit and this cycle will just inevitably continue.

We protest and we get seen as "crybabies" by the general public and if we riot then we are seen as savages. As a black man in this country I honestly don't know what do about this shit anymore. I guess Nas was right, they're gonna want us all gone eventually.

 

[Nappuccino]

That could be read as black people's human rights being at the sufferance of white people.

. . . because I'm white? I mean "like me" as in "rational people."

 

[Mesousa]

The consequence shouldn't be violent people murdering cops.

I agree it shouldn't be, but if it takes that to stop cops from continually doing this then so be it.

 

[woolley]

The consequence shouldn't be violent people murdering cops.



There are tons of people making the case against this perspective. There is no case if you prove the ignorant perspective correct.

rioting =/= murdering people

 

[Dude Abides]

Any of you going to be traveling to Ferguson to join these riots you're advocating?

 

[Rembrandt]

Bringing attention and striking fear are two vastly different ideas.

They achieve the same things.

There's a difference between being painted in a bad light, and actually doing the shit that is the bad light. One side can be defended. The other side . . . well, let's just say it makes the ignorant criticism valid.

The point I'm making is that in their eyes, they have already been proven right. A protest isn't going to suddenly make them realize the error of their ways, but a riot would let them know we're tired of this shit and will prove it. I'm sorry if it scares white Americans who don't have to worry about being victimized like we do every single day.

What would change? Are you stupid? It would happen MORE. That's worse than now, right?

I would love to see how much worse it can be if we can murdered for carrying a fake gun in Walmart while white people bring machine guns into Starbucks.

 

[Malyse]

Okay, riot. Go ahead. Get arrested and/or killed. Your community is in tatters. You now have a record. The rest of the country is even more afraid of black people once they see cops getting killed by them. All of this DEFINITELY makes things worse. But it's okay, you're mad, so rioting is obviously the only option.

Over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”

Please cease and desist immediately telling oppressed people the proper way to fight their oppressors.

 

[geomon]

Let me ask you Pro-Riot people something. Did the Los Angeles Riots help the black community in L.A.? How about the 1980 Miami Riots, did those help to stop cop violence against blacks?

 

[Nappuccino]

rioting =/= murdering people

So what is the fear and consequence that's being alluded too? My apologizes if I'm inferring too much, but that's what it sounds like some people here want.

 

[The Technomancer]

The consequence shouldn't be violent people murdering cops.



There are tons of people making the case against this perspective. There is no case if you prove the ignorant perspective correct.

Which is again irrelevent because they are failing

 

[dave is ok]

So ignorant.

Martin Luther King, Jr. riot enthusiast

 

[Coins]

I'm honestly curious as to your solution for the problem then. You don't sound like you have one and would rather us just be complacent.

Also, how would rioting affect you? I'm assuming you're white, feel free to correct me, so how would rioting hurt you or your perception of the situation?



It brings attention. Regardless of what you say, it would definitely strike fear in a lot of people.

My solution to Ferguson itself is to run against the UNNAPPOSED white people elected to office there. And motivate black people in Ferguson to vote since the statistics show they don't. As for me? I live in the area so yeah, I'm kind of personally affected.

 

[Rembrandt]

So ignorant.

Thank you.

Any of you going to be traveling to Ferguson to join these riots you're advocating?

Are any of these white people going to these protests in Ferguson to support Michael Brown?

 

[Nappuccino]

The point I'm making is that in their eyes, they have already been proven right. A protest isn't going to suddenly make them realize the error of their ways, but a riot would let them know we're tired of this shit and will prove it. I'm sorry if it scares white Americans who don't have to worry about being victimized like we do every single day.

I hope you realize that this logic makes no sense. It is awful that minorities have to deal with the bullshit they do, but this isn't the way to change that. All that will happen is the opposite side coming down harder.

 

[NullPointer]

Bringing attention and striking fear are two vastly different ideas.

Worldwide attention has already been achieved. That part's done.

 

[Haloid1177]

They achieve the same things.

Except one alienates any support you have from outside communities and leaders.

The point I'm making is that in their eyes, they have already been proven right. A protest isn't going to suddenly make them realize the error of their ways, but a riot would let them know we're tired of this shit and will prove it. I'm sorry if it scares white Americans who don't have to worry about being victimized like we do every single day.

Or they'll make people think the police are right and set back all progress possibly made.

 

[Aaronology]

Please don't riot. Just vote out all the clowns that don't represent the community.

That requires consistent work, persistence, patience, diligence. All that good stuff. But everyone is so cynical now, and not just black people.

Much easier to irrationally vent and burn down the neighborhood. That'll show'em. Because peacefully protesting has never, ever worked for minorities in America </s>.

This thread is so depressing.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

This is perfect opportunity for an anarchist. Which is sad pigging backing off peoples right to protest.

 

[Brakke]

Let me ask you Pro-Riot people something. Did the Los Angeles Riots help the black community in L.A.? How about the 1980 Miami Riots, did those help to stop cop violence against blacks?

Those are tremendously complicated questions you can't really answer with "yes" or "no".

 

[commedieu]

Okay, riot. Go ahead. Get arrested and/or killed. Your community is in tatters. You now have a record. The rest of the country is even more afraid of black people once they see cops getting killed by them. All of this DEFINITELY makes things worse. But it's okay, you're mad, so rioting is obviously the only option.

This exchange is immature. There is 0 progress being made from the calm and silent movement. America looked the other way when ferguson pd abused journalists. Negroes havent been rioting up until the point of ferguson, to some how justify the abuse.

You choose to deeply disect the problem with rioting. So you do understand its the last ditch effort to do anything, as the sysyem has failed minorities, and doesn't include them in the political process. This isn't a new problem in america. Its highlighted, but thats all.

Rioting happens because the system had failed to create an equal voice for minorities worldwide, and we see the riots. Worldwide. Failures are the government. Not the people. So the people shouldn't be the only ones held accountable to a busted process that has proven to be ineffective.

People should be more up in arms that americans wanting a trial for murder are pushed to the point of weekly protests vs wagging a finger at the select group that understands why people riot.

But they aren't because no one cares that police are training guns on press members. This situation has a lot of reasons its about to happen. But absolutely none of the reasons are due to expecting legal change from it, the system is a failure. This is what happens when you deny people rights. Again, its happening all over the globe.

Shitty outcome either way as it will justify more doing nothing by americans. But its not like there is any option, nothing else is going to be done about this until non minorities notice an issue.

People on the sidelines and those that are unaffected will always minimalize what rioting is. Nothing new. "Lol why burn down your own town lol!" Is missing the point of why the person is setting things on fire to begin with.

 

[LordAzrael]

That requires consistent work, persistence, patience, diligence. All that good stuff. But everyone is so cynical now, and not just black people.

Much easier to irrationally vent and burn down the neighborhood. That'll show'em. Because peacefully protesting has never, ever worked for minorities in America </s>.

This thread is so depressing.

'cease and desist immediately from telling the oppressed how to fight their oppressors'

 

[Nappuccino]

Which is again irrelevent because they are failing

So will the riots.

 

[Malyse]

Martin Luther King, Jr. riot enthusiast

I'm certain you know much more than he does, right?

 

[jakonovski]

. . . because I'm white? I mean "like me" as in "rational people."

The other part was placing demands in exchange for human rights. The point of human rights is that they can't be taken away. There's a fundamental problem at work here, one that pretty much precludes every solution save violence. Because black people aren't going to get human rights by acquiescing, they're at best going to be tolerated or spared.

 

[Rembrandt]

Let me ask you Pro-Riot people something. Did the Los Angeles Riots help the black community in L.A.? How about the 1980 Miami Riots, did those help to stop cop violence against blacks?

Are you waiting for someone to ask you how many of the non-violent protests helped things?

My solution to Ferguson itself is to run against the UNNAPPOSED white people elected to office there. And motivate black people in Ferguson to vote since the statistics show they don't. As for me? I live in the area so yeah, I'm kind of personally affected.

You have it all figured out. Man, I can't believe we have never thought of that before. Voting is the solution to all of our problems, goddamn, you're a genius. Have fun, I hope you join in the non-violent protests if you're a supporter.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Did the Los Angeles Riots help the black community in L.A.?

Yes?

The LA Riots kicked in significant and needed reform. The carnage put a price tag on police brutality. The subsequent cleanup helped make the neighborhood a better place.



ed

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/25/151354376/after-riots-scandal-sparked-reform-in-lapd

http://www.laweekly.com/microsites/la-riots/

 

[Dude Abides]

Thank you.



Are any of these white people going to these protests in Ferguson to support Michael Brown?

I don't know, ask them.

So, you making travel arrangements or is this all just talk?

 

[Maxim726X]

I'm not advocating for riots, and it's just delicious that people here are so worried about rioting to begin with.

Not the clear injustice which would be the catalyst to why a riot might happen to begin with, no. The potential of a riot has people all messed up.

Anyway, voting isn't going to cause a fundamental paradigm shift in Ferguson, and it's an insult to their intelligence to think that the people there, who aren't fucking stupid, don't know that.

Whynotboth.gif

I have no idea where you're getting that impression from... Certainly not in this thread. It's possible to condemn what happened to Michael Brown and condemn potential riots. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[Rembrandt]

I don't know, ask them.

So, you making travel arrangements or is this all just talk?

Nah, I'm not, unless you wanna give me a ride. Are my posts considered irrelevant now?

Yes?

The LA Riots kicked in significant and needed reform. The carnage put a price tag on police brutality. The subsequent cleanup helped make the neighborhood a better place.



ed

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/25/151354376/after-riots-scandal-sparked-reform-in-lapd

http://www.laweekly.com/microsites/la-riots/

Guess that deads that argument.

 

[The Lamonster]

Nah, I'm not, unless you wanna give me a ride. Are my posts considered irrelevant now?

I won't read your posts until you set my computer on fire.

Spoiler

a dumb joke...carry on

 

[dave is ok]

Nah, I'm not, unless you wanna give me a ride. Are my posts considered irrelevant now?

If the riots were going to happen in your town, would you still want them?

 

[Haloid1177]

I agree it shouldn't be, but if it takes that to stop cops from continually doing this then so be it.

Except it'll lead to cops continually doing it even more. I just don't understand this logic. I understand the need for change, but using that kind of ideology is terrifying.

 

[Kettch]

Obviously I don't support burning down random homes and businesses, but I don't think protesters need to be obedient children herded around by police either. There's plenty of civil disobedience options that can be used that don't directly harm people, yet gain more attention than a simple march.

 

[Mesousa]

I nominate dude abides to be in charge of the Neogaf to Ferguson carpool

 

[Dude Abides]

Nah, I'm not, unless you wanna give me a ride. Are my posts considered irrelevant now?

No, just hollow.

 

[timetokill]

Let me ask you Pro-Riot people something. Did the Los Angeles Riots help the black community in L.A.?

Yes.

I can't comment on the Miami ones but as somebody from LA, yes, they did.

 

[Malyse]

Whynotboth.gif

I have no idea where you're getting that impression from... Certainly not in this thread. It's possible to condemn what happened to Michael Brown and condemn potential riots. They're not mutually exclusive.

Except, you absolutely should not condemn the riots. I disagree with rioting, but I understand the root and I absolutely do not condemn the people from taking action on their frustration. There is a whole god damned world of difference between condemnation and disagreement. That you think they are one and the same is troubling to say the least.

 

[Mesousa]

Except it'll lead to cops continually doing it even more. I just don't understand this logic. I understand the need for change, but using that kind of ideology is terrifying.

Not anymore terrifying than being a brown person in the streets when a cop shows up saying you fit a "profile" :/

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Whynotboth.gif

I have no idea where you're getting that impression from... Certainly not in this thread. It's possible to condemn what happened to Michael Brown and condemn potential riots. They're not mutually exclusive.

It is absolutely happening in this thread by several people, and if you don't see it, you're not paying enough attention.

There's at least one person who didn't have anything to say about this entire case until the quicktrip was burned down, and was condemning protesters for the idea, (key word there again, idea) of protesters shutting down a football game for getting out on the field.

As to the MLK quotes, I'm pretty sure that I've said this before, but MLK's entire legacy has been distilled down to "nonviolence" and the I Have a Dream speech, and how many good feelings those two things make people feel. Any of the other real shit he said regarding race relations isn't relevant.

 

[geomon]

Yes.

I can't comment on the Miami ones but as somebody from LA, yes, they did.

Well that's good to know that there aren't any more problems with cops killing black people in L.A.

As for Miami, I'm from Miami and I can safely say, we really don't like the cops here.

 

[Haloid1177]

Not anymore terrifying than being a brown person in the streets when a cop shows up saying you fit a "profile" :/

Really? It's not more terrifying to start committing actions in which you know reinforce the issue you're advocating against?

Reads almost like a shitty revenge movie. "They kill us, we kill them!" Accomplishes nothing. You can't possibly believe you'll gain anything with those actions.