There is never a shortage of fanboys to damage control some bullshit that some company is doing.
Hey dude let me help you out, imagine that instead of FromSoft, it's EA, or Ubi, or Activision, or Microsoft doing this.
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Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin announced for PS4/XBO/PC - April 2015
- Thread starter RoKKeR
- Start date
There is never a shortage of fanboys to damage control some bullshit that some company is doing.
Hey dude let me help you out, imagine that instead of FromSoft, it's EA, or Ubi, or Activision, or Microsoft doing this.
Gouty
Bloodborne is shit
I noticed you didn't bother to respond to any of my points and instead called me a fanboy.
Keep raging.
Also, I don't have a problem with this release so I'm not sure why the company behind it makes any difference.
Pro tip: It doesn't.
Portugeezer
Member
Metro Redux did the same, but they offered a cheaper price for people who owned the original games.
Those companies do it all the time in the form of GOTY editions. No one acts like they should be throwing free games from the rooftops. Capcom makes you rebuy SFIV every time they add a few new characters and people are fine with it.
FS put out a game full of content. People decided that the asking price was worth it, so they paid for it. No issue there, right? Next: after the game releases, From puts in a bunch of work to add gameplay elements and performance improvements. This doesn't void the initial transaction - it's simply an extra service that they're providing.
Now typically, money is exchanged for goods and services. But in this case it seems that gamers feel entitled to From's services free of charge. In fact they're offended by the very existence of said service, despite the fact that it has no effect on their previous transaction. That seems pretty remarkable to me, to the point that I'm certain that I must be missing something here.
The way you guys react to everything is what's annoying about this forum and makes it difficult to read and engage in any intelligent discussion. Any time a company does something you don't like, you scream bloody murder and bring out the pitchforks against anyone who isn't on your side. It's obnoxious, childish, and grating. Who cares if it's EA or Ubi? You guys personify these companies like comic book villains who are threatening to ruin the world. They're just businesses selling a product. You don't think it's worth your money or time, don't buy it. Nobody is actually hurting you via video game pricing. There is never any "bullshit" because nobody is forcing you to buy anything.
Haeleos
Member
I don't think rational people have a problem with paying for extra content. The bigger issue is that this splits the multiplayer community in two between those who purchase the DX11 version and those who stay with the DX9 because they operate on two separate online servers. I'm fine for paying for extra content like the season pass that allows me to play with people who haven't made that decision.
My opinion: The main goal of this content was obviously to create a next gen release, so it reeks of laziness (yet again) on From's part that they didn't have the foresight of how this would be approached as an upgrade for the PC version. Instead of finding a solution, it just looks like they are having us rebuy the game to overcome the technical hurdle of having multiple versions "crossplay".
Except they don't anymore, at least when you buy digitally. The outrage over milking Dragon's Dogma and MvC3 fans by making them buy the same game during the age of digital games, has managed to slap some sense into them and they're offering upgrade options for copies of Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition on all possible platforms
King Gilga
Member
Lmao, what bullshit, from can straight up fuck off.
I'm glad I never paid for DS2 myself (it was gifted to me w/o asking by a friend who also had it gifted to him by someone w/o asking but he already owned it).
Gouty
Bloodborne is shit
Where was the lazy argument when Naughty Dog split the TLoU multiplayer base by releasing an updated version of the game? But but but different hardware. Square figured it out with FFXI so it was obviously possible.
Really looking forward to this. I was waiting for something akin to the "Prepare to Die" edition for Dark Souls, so a remaster with even more goodies is great news for me, personally.
Will cop at $20 on Steam. I normally go sub-$10 before buying, but this looks to have a lot of worthwhile content.
Will cop at $20 on Steam. I normally go sub-$10 before buying, but this looks to have a lot of worthwhile content.
Nobody was forcing anyone to buy chocolate either, but major companies were still hit with a massive price fixing lawsuit for it in 2013.
There's nothing wrong with being pro-consumer.
Im pretty sure that you know exactly what's wrong here. Some people don't like the direction that these new services are heading for. I don't see why complaining about this even needs justification since critique is a basic economic "right" for the consumer.
The problem with this practice is that it puts less pressure on the developer to finish a product in the most satisfactory way. We have seen this already happen with the online element of games and "patching" them after releasing broken games. Now, this is spiraling towards compromising design decisions on the notion that they will release a "remake" version of the game. It also begs the question on why should i buy something that i know will be remade and resold in a far superior package. It also takes resources away from making something completely new as opposed to keep milking the same foundation.
Obviously, on purely economic perspective, there is nothing wrong with what From and other are doing. But there sure as hell are more ways at looking at this picture.
Edit: This is from a PC gamers perspective.
copelandmaster
Member
PS3 vs PS4. Different platforms
PC vs PC. Same platform.
Don't be obtuse. Especially considering that loads of games come with both DX9 and DX10/11 executables all the time when you buy the game automatically. Sure, substantial changes to the game have been made between versions, apparently. But, why make make those minor changes in the first place for the sole purpose of making a little more money at the expense of the division of your fanbase on an open platform unaccustomed and unwilling to put up with the bullshit that comes with console gaming remasters?
Haeleos
Member
Naughty Dog didn't split the TLoU multiplayer base. It was released on a console that didn't have access to the game. So yes, it's fine that From are releasing this on PS4 and Xbox One. I was talking strictly about the PC version.
Having to rebuy the game completely not even a year from it's original release for the addition of DX11, some additional NPCs. enemy types and gameplay enhancements is a cashgrab, and other companies have found solutions that didn't outright involve charging people full price for a glorified patch. At even $10, I would be hard to stomach it based on this proposal of content if it weren't for the fact I'd be supporting the fracturing of the multiplayer community.
Amount of content has nothing to do with this.
I bought the PC version at full price earlier this year, and bought the season pass as well. I loved the game and still do.
What's frustrating is that being the PC, they were naturally not limited in hardware capability (even though that was the reason for a lot of their design decisions they state). And now, for this release being announced less than a year after the game launches, they're announcing a new version for a system that's totally backwards compatible, and was all along perfectly capable of achieving what they originally wanted to do.
There is no technical limitation as to why PC couldn't have had that version originally other than they didn't want to do it then, and a year later they're glad to charge you again.
I wouldn't have bought the game had I known there would be a better version of the game that is more true to their original desires for the design had I known it would be coming a year down the road. I wouldn't have bought the original release had I known it was a hamstrung version that they planned on improving on and charging so soon after.
These improvements should be coming to the PC at LEAST as DLC, because the PC was never limited in itself, it was only limited in what Namco and FROM decided to give us.
I would argue that this is actually intended to create resources for their next project. Also, not all of From is wasting their time working on this. There is almost certainly a core team working on Dark Souls 3 right now.
I agree that it's an unfortunate precedent to release game updates, but From isn't the one setting it. DSII isn't broken. Maybe fans didn't like everything about it, but it was a complete product. (I know someone is about to comment about it not having enough foil surfaces or something here, but that issue is very far removed from what companies such as Ubisoft are doing).
Splitting the user base is a legit concern, but other than that I'm not seeing anything wrong here. Would it be neat if From took a stand and said "We put out our product and it is the final product. The end." But on the other hand I'm going to enjoy the updated version.
Exactly.
I feel bad for people who bought all the DLC on PC because you pretty much bought them for no reason seeing how this new re-release will include all the DLC plus the update.
Making people work on old content is creating resources for the next project? This would could be argued if the game did not sell well in the first place, but it sold well. It's a simple way of trying to get money with the least amount of work or creativity put behind the game.
Sure, enjoy the "update". But "updates" are not something that me and some others are prepared to pay for. And i sure as hell don't want to be a part of the crowd that might make this into a trend. A consumers job is ultimately to get the best he can for the least amount of money he is willing to pay for it.
Red Liquorice
Member
Haven't watch all this yet but early on he says "NPCs" afaik there is one new NPC, unless we've heard otherwise?
Watched it. Yeah I agree in general, except his assertion that every Souls fan will want to purchase this release. From the moment it was announce I had absolutely no itention of buying this. I will take my free patch for the PS3, and I'm good. I've heard nothing about the DX11/PS4/Xbone version that makes me feel I am missing out on anything.
I completely agree dividing the PC community is stupid. Fair enough they can't impliment some of this stuff on last gen consoles so only PS4/Xbone get "new enemy paths" and whatever else crap there is, but to make PC gamers pay for the whole game again if they want in seems petty.
A consumer's job is to buy whatever they want. If it was what you suggest, no consumer would ever buy a game new.
Just because many people bought the game already, doesn't mean anyone should feel bad about rebuying it, or buying it for the first time now.
If more work is going into a game, it makes sense that cost is pushed to the consumer. I wish I had an opportunity to fund another iteration of DS1 that addresses DR/LI. If it's either remain in the state it is, or improve it and pass that cost on to the consumer, I prefer the latter.
It's a way to get money. Money can be used to make more games. Regardless of how much money DSII made, more money is always helpful.
You certainly are under no obligation to pay for it.
I think From's only elaborated on one who is supposed to be a "narrating" character, who is probably Lord Aldia.
Gouty
Bloodborne is shit
Yes. For no reason.
Anyone who purchased the game on PC and enjoyed the game for tens of hours just had their time and experiences with DS2 invalidated because of this re-release.
I feel REALLY bad for the the people who bought Star Wars on VHS.
Frank Jaeger
Member
I learned something with this press-release!
I had two exceptions to wait and buy cheaper later, which included buying Legendary/GOTY editions instead of getting the game and paying for the separate DLC, I have a lot of games and not a lot of time. So I can do that. The exceptions were:
1. WoW Expansions: I've had to stop playing WoW. Moving away from my friends time-zone puts a big dent on the social aspect of the game.
2. FROMSOFT games. I love them and I wanted to support them as much as possible.
How can they ask more money from a community that basically saved their asses in the first place - yes Demon Souls was sleeper hit and it wasn't expected to succeed - is just biting the hand that feeds them. Make a next-gen version and re-sell it, but putting the improved visuals, that have always been there by the looks of the beta/alpha footage behind a paywall after such a huge support from the PC community? I guess I'll wait for a Definitive version of bloodborne then...
Call me entitled, but for me this is anti-consumer behaviour and I'll not support this as I have been doing.
I had two exceptions to wait and buy cheaper later, which included buying Legendary/GOTY editions instead of getting the game and paying for the separate DLC, I have a lot of games and not a lot of time. So I can do that. The exceptions were:
1. WoW Expansions: I've had to stop playing WoW. Moving away from my friends time-zone puts a big dent on the social aspect of the game.
2. FROMSOFT games. I love them and I wanted to support them as much as possible.
How can they ask more money from a community that basically saved their asses in the first place - yes Demon Souls was sleeper hit and it wasn't expected to succeed - is just biting the hand that feeds them. Make a next-gen version and re-sell it, but putting the improved visuals, that have always been there by the looks of the beta/alpha footage behind a paywall after such a huge support from the PC community? I guess I'll wait for a Definitive version of bloodborne then...
Call me entitled, but for me this is anti-consumer behaviour and I'll not support this as I have been doing.
CountAntonius
Member
The PC doesn't need two versions of the same game. It doesn't need it's playerbase split, it doesn't need to charge people full price for a game they spent 75 dollars on a year ago nor kill the characters we worked so hard on. I love Dark Souls 2 have over 300 hours on it and still played ot almost daily. I haven't touched it since this was announced. It is a bullshit, unnecessary, clumsy implementation.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
This is another proof that the japanese publishers, even the ones that are already on Steam for a while, don't get the PC market.
This coulld potentially hurt the IP on PC for the rest of it's life, I hope Namco understands that...
This coulld potentially hurt the IP on PC for the rest of it's life, I hope Namco understands that...
I remember them saying they had no plans at one point, but not that there wouldn't be any. Could be wrong.
Anyways the original game was packed full of content and it seems the DLC was developed afterwards so I don't see any issue there.
Gouty
Bloodborne is shit
This is the definition of entitlement.
A community that saved their asses? Are you fucking serious? Can you possibly be any more insulting?
If I bought the DLC on PC when it came out I'd actually be pretty annoyed right now. Didn't the DLC stuff come out like a few months ago? lol.
Gouty
Bloodborne is shit
Because you're owed something more than the original agreement you made with them?
I'm hoping they offer a big discount for people who already own the PC version. Other games have done this recently, such as the Sleeping Dogs remasterFull price on PC? loool.
I hope so too, but according to that chart in Japanese it's full price. We'll see when the time comes.
What are you even talking about? I didn't sign a contract, I'm not CM Punk.
Gouty
Bloodborne is shit
Then why would you be upset? If you paid for the DLC then its because you thought what they were offering was worth what they were asking for it.
Effigenius
Member
Honestly if you bought a last gen game after new consoles came out in this day and age.... What did you expect? Everything is getting a remaster. Hold off and see. You wouldn't even have had to wait a year. I didn't buy borderlands the pre sequel. I am betting we will see a port early next year. If I'm wrong I will scoop it up cheap then. That's an option also by the way. Let's not act like this game won't be under $20 in a year and a half from now.
The PC version of SotFS is a complete disaster. They are splitting the PC online community, they are charging full price for it and they don't offer the extra content/improvements even as paid DLC for the DX9 version.
I seriously can't understand how some people defend this crap.
I seriously can't understand how some people defend this crap.
A game being "new" is one of the things that some value. You are making nonsense, that's not how our current economic theories describe ideal consumer behavior.
People can feel however they want to feel. Other than that, there are already countless arguments for this being a bad idea.
Those two are not your only options, company behavior can be dictated any way consumers might see fit. It's another issue if it's not happening and i wager that putting up with this is part of the problem.
I think they should have sold this as DLC+Sunken Crown instead of selling the Sunken Crown ones on its own.
Fanmens.
Well, at least they're patching some content in, I'll read some impressions and maybe I can get to finish it.
Yeah, I always leave a summon sign when I read "If only I had some friends...", but I never get summoned :/
Yeah, I always leave a summon sign when I read "If only I had some friends...", but I never get summoned :/
Did the re-releases come barely a year after the original release? I think that's what more people are bothered by; it's a remastering coming out so soon from its original release. Couple that with the fact the PC version is being double fucked by making the new version an entirely new purchase, at what will be close to full price. That's the true scummy shit.
Your comparison is an incredibly poor one. I don't think people are mad at the idea of a revision, but that more people are miffed by it being so soon, and the mess From is trying to get away with on PC.
Frank Jaeger
Member
I'm glad you found a sentence to dig out from my post! More power to you for managing to ignore what's going on, They say that way lies bliss!
Rereleasing a game with modifications is actually a pretty common practice for Japanese games and one that people have supported in the past. Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition and Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence both get praised for being the best versions of the best games, even though you had to just....rebuy the game again XX months later at full price...
Square's done it with Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts games, rereleasing the games again in certain territories with extra bosses and mechanics added in, or extra cutscenes that re-contextualize the story. Capcom does it with Street Fighter games, as do most fighting games. Not only is it not uncommon, but people have been supportive of it.
I don't see this as being ANY different from getting a more balanced version of DMC3 with Vergil playable, or a rerelease of MGS3 with better camera and special modes. You're paying for a version of Dark Souls with new enemy placement, 6 player online, and improved graphics. As far as enemies and 6player go, It's a Type 2 situation, not an upgrade of the old game. (6 player online seems insane, and the new enemies might be super crazy difficult) Graphics upgrade is the only flat out linear improvement.
We still get the important content (new lore and fixes, new npc's, new areas, possibly new bosses, (possibly new ending????)) for free on all current versions of the game. I was expecting the 4th dlc to be priced, not be a FREE patch. Complaining that you're being "tricked" into buying the best graphics because you have to have it?? Ugh. Stop being an actual pig. If you don't want it, don't buy it. It's really really simple. You still get the game content that MATTERS for free. (I think the price should be fair though. Balanced for those that have it versus those that don't. $30?)
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As for "splitting the userbase", the two versions of the game have different enemy placement, so you can't just replace the old version with the new, because then you just throw away the old layouts completely, which might be better for some players. They wouldn't be compatible for online either, because the new version is 6 player while the old one is 4. The userbase split is because of necessity and not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
You can't replace the old game because it's a Lost Levels remix of the old game, and they're not compatible because of the different netcode, so they end up as two audiences.
Square's done it with Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts games, rereleasing the games again in certain territories with extra bosses and mechanics added in, or extra cutscenes that re-contextualize the story. Capcom does it with Street Fighter games, as do most fighting games. Not only is it not uncommon, but people have been supportive of it.
I don't see this as being ANY different from getting a more balanced version of DMC3 with Vergil playable, or a rerelease of MGS3 with better camera and special modes. You're paying for a version of Dark Souls with new enemy placement, 6 player online, and improved graphics. As far as enemies and 6player go, It's a Type 2 situation, not an upgrade of the old game. (6 player online seems insane, and the new enemies might be super crazy difficult) Graphics upgrade is the only flat out linear improvement.
We still get the important content (new lore and fixes, new npc's, new areas, possibly new bosses, (possibly new ending????)) for free on all current versions of the game. I was expecting the 4th dlc to be priced, not be a FREE patch. Complaining that you're being "tricked" into buying the best graphics because you have to have it?? Ugh. Stop being an actual pig. If you don't want it, don't buy it. It's really really simple. You still get the game content that MATTERS for free. (I think the price should be fair though. Balanced for those that have it versus those that don't. $30?)
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As for "splitting the userbase", the two versions of the game have different enemy placement, so you can't just replace the old version with the new, because then you just throw away the old layouts completely, which might be better for some players. They wouldn't be compatible for online either, because the new version is 6 player while the old one is 4. The userbase split is because of necessity and not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
You can't replace the old game because it's a Lost Levels remix of the old game, and they're not compatible because of the different netcode, so they end up as two audiences.