Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT| True Potential of Smash Bros.

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GregLombardi said:
You can't do a lot of things online unless it is with friends. Sakurai violated the Gabe rule, as expected: "get out of the way of gamers and what they want to do"
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I'm not sure about "For Fun," but I agree that the customs certainly don't belong in "For Glory." Sort of agree with For Fun as well. Mind you, I get that it kind of undermines the utility of the customs, but I sort of see how it could be frustrating trying to get used to how to fight certain characters, only to realize that you have to not only learn the matchups of 40 some odd characters, but the several permutations of each character.

But that's also just sort of a jab against how For Fun and For Glory are currently set up. I honestly think that there should be more flexibility in terms of setting up traditional lobbies in Smash. Like, maybe I want to play no items on non-flat stages. There should be a way to do that without being resigned to For Glory or creating a room that only friends can enter.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I'm not sure about "For Fun," but I agree that the customs certainly don't belong in "For Glory." Sort of agree with For Fun as well. Mind you, I get that it kind of undermines the utility of the customs, but I sort of see how it could be frustrating trying to get used to how to fight certain characters, only to realize that you have to not only learn the matchups of 40 some odd characters, but the several permutations of each character.

But that's also just sort of a jab against how For Fun and For Glory are currently set up. I honestly think that there should be more flexibility in terms of setting up traditional lobbies in Smash. Like, maybe I want to play no items on non-flat stages. There should be a way to do that without being resigned to For Glory or creating a room that only friends can enter.
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I think it would be fine to just have a sub-section of For Glory.

With Customs
Without Customs

Problem solved with minimal effort, I think.
 
They backed themselves into a corner by grouping custom moves with equipment. I would like an online mode that uses them, but I figure it would have the baggage of people moving around at lightning speed or KOing you in three hits because all the stuff they tossed on them. You can't seemingly use one without the other unless everyone has a mutual agreement to have only premade characters stripped of equipment.

OricWindstar said:
Shamrock's Brawler is pretty solid.
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Oh, I don't doubt you can do great stuff with the character. I just haven't actually seen him in a tourney or anything to warrant such a high placement.
 
Karsticles said:
I think it would be fine to just have a sub-section of For Glory.

With Customs
Without Customs

Problem solved with minimal effort, I think.
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I'm not going to pretend to think I have any right to speak for the real competitive scene, but I don't think that customs have a place there. And the only reason For Glory even exists is to placate competitive players. Why don't I think they have a place? I just sort of feel like they're more of an afterthought, and I think it provides an additional nuisance to unlocking a character's potential. You know, I'm trying to get good and practice and now I'm getting my ass handed to me by some Diddy (for instance) that is using custom moves and gear that I don't even have.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I'm not going to pretend to think I have any right to speak for the real competitive scene, but I don't think that customs have a place there. And the only reason For Glory even exists is to placate competitive players. Why don't I think they have a place? I just sort of feel like they're more of an afterthought, and I think it provides an additional nuisance to unlocking a character's potential. You know, I'm trying to get good and practice and now I'm getting my ass handed to me by some Diddy (for instance) that is using custom moves and gear that I don't even have.
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I think absolutely no one wants gear, but a big enough subsection of the competitive crowd would want to play with custom moves.
 
Blackquill said:
B4B_QTFIQAAtHTu.jpg


Japanese tier list, what do you think ?
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I've been constantly telling people that I honestly think Link has been nerfed. He isn't anywhere near as good as he was and everyone is telling me otherwise, then I see this image. I pretty much agree with this tier list.

I'm going through this thread adding people.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I'm not going to pretend to think I have any right to speak for the real competitive scene, but I don't think that customs have a place there. And the only reason For Glory even exists is to placate competitive players. Why don't I think they have a place? I just sort of feel like they're more of an afterthought, and I think it provides an additional nuisance to unlocking a character's potential. You know, I'm trying to get good and practice and now I'm getting my ass handed to me by some Diddy (for instance) that is using custom moves and gear that I don't even have.
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It's hard to say how much of an afterthought custom moves are. On one hand, some of them are ridiculously good, like WFT's Sun Salutation custom that juggles you all the way to the edge.

On the other hand, Sakurai actually balanced some of the custom moves in the last patch, like one of Charizard's side B moves. That suggests he cares somewhat about their competitive value. If it were just a "For Fun" move, would it matter enough to balance?

The unlocking aspect is absolutely awful, I agree. But the customization would add to the competitive scene. I liken them to assists in Marvel. They also provide a ton of customization options that make it hard to adapt to every situation, but they are also the basis of the game. Custom moves could also be like that, potentially.

BumblebeeCody said:
I've been constantly telling people that I honestly think Link has been nerfed. He isn't anywhere near as good as he was and everyone is telling me otherwise, then I see this image. I pretty much agree with this tier list.

I'm going through this thread adding people.
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Be sure to add Soldnerkei, since he mains Link and is great with him.

Also, Shamrock is a fantastic player.

Those two really stand out for me among those I have played.
 
Karsticles said:
Be sure to add Soldnerkei, since he mains Link and is great with him.

Also, Shamrock is a fantastic player.

Those two really stand out for me among those I have played.
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Just added now. But as I was saying earlier in FGW, I really don't think Link is as good as he was. Even in Brawl. Link is incredibly sluggish, but I'm willing to still play him. But I know he isn't what he used to be.

Confused Cheeseburger said:
Shulk D? Man, I've been ripped by some crazy shulk's online.
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Yeah I agree with most of the tier list. About 85% of it. I don't see how Dark Pit and Dr. Mario are lower than Normal Pit/Mario but those are the few small character notes I don't agree with. Same with Shulk, at best he's a B.

Edit: Oh and check this out.
TbBDIkw.gif

WTF!?
Playing casuals with a friend
 
Karsticles said:
The unlocking aspect is absolutely awful, I agree. But the customization would add to the competitive scene. I liken them to assists in Marvel. They also provide a ton of customization options that make it hard to adapt to every situation, but they are also the basis of the game. Custom moves could also be like that, potentially.
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Said something like this yesterday. Should let you do something like press Y on the character in character select and pick a set of customs there. The unlocking process for them is also indeed absolutely balls, which hampers their competitive practicality in tournaments.
 
BumblebeeCody said:
I've been constantly telling people that I honestly think Link has been nerfed. He isn't anywhere near as good as he was and everyone is telling me otherwise, then I see this image. I pretty much agree with this tier list.

I'm going through this thread adding people.
Click to expand...

...How do you gather that Link is actually worse than ever before? This terrible tier-list aside, there's just...nothing indicating that. His Smash attacks are much more reliable with much more priority and strength, his dash attack is an early kill move, his zoning is annoying as ever, etc.
 
BumblebeeCody said:
I've been constantly telling people that I honestly think Link has been nerfed. He isn't anywhere near as good as he was and everyone is telling me otherwise, then I see this image. I pretty much agree with this tier list.

I'm going through this thread adding people.
Click to expand...

Link is about as bad as he's always been.
 
jorgejjvr said:
I'm down too

It's my username

It says your id is incorrect
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Xbox habit sorry.
NNID: 64BitHero
I sent you a friend request

egruntz said:
...How do you gather that Link is actually worse than ever before? This terrible tier-list aside, there's just...nothing indicating that. His Smash attacks are much more reliable with much more priority and strength, his dash attack is an early kill move, his zoning is annoying as ever, etc.
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That's the thing, I don't like his Dash Attack. I hate how he leaps in the because it has such a long startup and is easy to avoid. It makes for (slightly) good air combo follow up but that's it. I prefer the old Dash attack where it was a quick running swipe. His Smash attacks feel the same yeah. But that doesn't mean he got better. They're just as good/bad as they've always been.
His Boomerang zoning took a huge nerf with how slow the startup is. That is my biggest problem. I rely on the Boomerang all the time.
Codeblue said:
Link is about as bad as he's always been.
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Mid tier then?
 
BumblebeeCody said:
Xbox habit sorry.
NNID: 64BitHero
I sent you a friend request



That's the thing, I don't like his Dash Attack. I hate how he leaps in the because it has such a long startup and is easy to avoid. It makes for (slightly) good air combo follow up but that's it. I prefer the old Dash attack where it was a quick running swipe. His Smash attacks feel the same yeah. But that doesn't mean he got better. They're just as good/bad as they've always been.
His Boomerang zoning took a huge nerf with how slow the startup is. That is my biggest problem. I rely on the Boomerang all the time.


Mid tier then?
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Accepted
 
Noob Question; Help Appreciated:

Can someone explain generally how the different blocks/dodges work and when they should be used? Like for example I'm at a loss as to why I'd ever just use the shield instead of rolling and stuff since I can better counterattack off the moving shields moves. But this is coming from someone whose Smash experience level is Button Masher.
 
AstroLad said:
Noob Question; Help Appreciated:

Can someone explain generally how the different blocks/dodges work and when they should be used? Like for example I'm at a loss as to why I'd ever just use the shield instead of rolling and stuff since I can better counterattack off the moving shields moves. But this is coming from someone whose Smash experience level is Button Masher.
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A noob question, but a very good question to ask. First thing's first: erase the mindset that one option is universally better over another. In reality, you'll be wanting to use shields, spot dodges, rolls, airdodges, and even just short hops frequently throughout a match for given purposes. Shields in particular are good for when you are able to immediately follow up with a punish. See the opponent SHAFFing into you? Shield --> Grab. Excellent punish that more often than not allows for follow up damage/launches.

Rolls are good when you need to both avoid AND reposition yourself. Unless you're responding to an attack with tremendous lag, you will usually not be able to follow up after a roll with any sort of punish. Use rolls sparingly, as mindless use of it will show a pattern for your opponent to exploit.

Spot dodges are good when you perform HARD reads on incoming attacks, or if the incoming attack is extremely telegraphed and you can time the dodge execution well. Spot dodges are quicker than shielding, generally, which allows for quicker follow ups. Multi-hit move incoming? Shield. Marth/Lucina F-Smash, and you want to inch in closer after? Spot dodge --> dash grab/attack.

Air dodges follow similar principles. Your other options would be to simply attack as you fall or just to reposition yourself with a second or third jump/up-special. Mix up your options frequently to keep your opponent guessing. A lot of people forget about this when it comes to Smash Bros., but the most important thing for any prospective competitive player to get a grasp on is the importance of mixups. They are HUGE.

Tl;dr use all for different scenarios.
 
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