Support NeoGAF

[PLASTICA-MAN]

One question guys... Character models in AC are the same between cutscenes and gameplay ?

Nope , and the custcnes use a weak SSS coppared to ingame models that do'nt use it just like Dead Rising 3 cutscnes using more details and ressources than gameplay (the game runs well in gameplay while very laggy in cutscnes since custscnes use SSS on characters while gameplay doesn't : confirmed by the devs).

 

[Maninthemirror]

It sure wasn't gameplay...

There are 3 levels

Realtime ingame inengine
Cutscene
Gameplay


Reveal was realtime ingame inengine
Yesterday was cutscene and Gameplay

You are basically comparing a Photomode to actual gameplay

 

[kinggroin]

How ? Her whole face is so smooth together with no differential including the eyes , that alone makes her ridiculously less detailed than the left picture. It's like you add add makeup and then a layer of blur affect and you get the picture on the right

The only thing you see about that image is skin texture defficiency. We're not going to have a productive discussion here. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Summer Haze]

How ? Her whole face is so smooth together with no differential including the eyes , that alone makes her ridiculously less detailed than the left picture. It's like you add add makeup and then a layer of blur affect and you get the picture on the right

Yeah, that's what I was saying. I can just about see pores in her skin, but they're hard to see under all that vaseline.

The more I look at that comparison, the more I wonder how anyone can say the AC image looks better. Artisitcally? Sure. But in terms of realism, the UC4 shot is on a different level for me.

 

[Odah]

Sup? Didn't follow the thread...is there an uprage about the graphics or something or what?

 

[Loris146]

Nope , and the custcnes use a weak SSS coppared to ingame models that do'nt use it just like Dead Rising 3 cutscnes using more details and ressources than gameplay (the game runs well in gameplay while very laggy in cutscnes since custscnes use SSS on characters while gameplay doesn't : confirmed by the devs).

Ok , thanks

 

[Maninthemirror]

The only thing you see about that image is skin texture defficiency. We're not going to have a productive discussion here. Let's just agree to disagree.

there isnt much to agree to disagree, 99% will chose the image on the left, well maybe not 99%, 90%

 

[Can Crusher]

Dude on the left has a much more technically accurate depiction of skin. Easily. Still think Elis's model is more impressive (which was my original post)

You mean she's prettier.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I'm looking at both. Elise looks more alive, more like a real person than homeboy on the left. Though he looks more detailed technically, he looks kind of phoney. I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Its like the sum of his technical parts don't equal a greater whole. Not sure.

Going slightly off track, the animation between the two is another factor. Though I'm not sure that counts as character modeling


Edit: Dear God Arno looks like shit. That's why I never mentioned him as an example for Unity.

He looks stylised but verging on realistic. She looks like anime realism. Not like a real person at all to me. She isn't convincing enough to verge on realism yet.

 

[iNvid02]

giraffix aside, and if this vertical slice is any indication, its very good to see them moving away from LEAVE NO MAN ALIVE to a stealthier approach similar to the last of us

 

[kinggroin]

Even that difference is IMO only due to light conditions, DOF, and water effects. Reposting that image where I adjusted color and DOF to match the reveal trailer more closely. If you look at the hair you see that DOF blur makes it look less "polygony".

This is a bad compare anyway. Clean no damage Nathan wouldn't look as detailed as himself with all those cuts blood bruises and sweat, anyway. The biggest difference is frame rate for now.

 

[Asbear]

I know it's alpha and would've maybe run a higher average than 30 if the framerate had been unlocked, but I can't help but think maybe ND underestimated the PS4, and once they had a lot of AI and CPU heavy stuff going they realized the 60fps target is not possible.

Either way I'm fine. as long as the framerate is stable. You won't care for 30fps after playing for a while, and as long as it's first party you won't be able to see how much better it could've looked. That's always my regret when buying console ports, is when I see a PC gamer play the same game at a higher framerate. That never happens with first party titles luckily.

 

[Odah]

Looks like Tomb Raider: DE quality wise

 

[nelsonroyale]

You mean she's prettier.

Haha of that there is no doubt.

 

[Dictator93]

Technically, UC4 looks as good as all the other modern games. I am not sure why everyone has to make a big stink about it.

Ryse, UC4, Unity all basically use the exact same capture process just with different ways of doing shading / translating the capture material into ingame animation. Is it that surprising that they look similarly pretty?

 

[ArchedThunder]

To me the Uncharted 4 characters look more impressive than the ACU ones, both look great but the ACU characters look more synthetic while the Uncharted 4 characters look more natural.

Though I do love that we are debating which near photo real characters look better, brings a smile to my face because not long ago characters in video games didn't look anything like real people.

 

[charsace]

He looks stylised but verging on realistic. She looks like anime realism. Not like a real person at all to me. She isn't convincing enough to verge on realism yet.

Neither of them look realistic to me.

 

[Odah]

Technically, UC4 looks as good as all the other modern games. I am not sure why everyone has to make a big stink about it.

Ryse, UC4, Unity all basically use the exact same capture process just with different ways of doing shading / translating the capture material into ingame animation. Is it that surprising that they look similarly pretty?

Looks like people are upset(?) because it doesn't look as good as the reveal trailer from E3...I guess.

But does graphics really matter that much nowadays? Especially with such underpowered consoles.

just sayin

 

[Summer Haze]

Hell, I'd even go so far as to say the in-game character model for Ellie in TLoU:R is better than that woman in ACU:

Minus the hair, obviously.

 

[Ricky_R]

Neither of them look realistic to me.

The one on the left is the closest though.

 

[Corpsepyre]

As awesome as this looked, really hoping they bump it up to 60 for the final game, and make it look like the initial reveal trailer. Don't know if that'll be possible, but playing Uncharted in 60 would be an instant boner.

 

[kinggroin]

there isnt much to agree to disagree, 99% will chose the image on the left, well maybe not 99%, 90%

Do you know what agree to disagree means? This isn't an objective discussion. I'm going to assume you don't know since your made up numbers don't even indicate objectivity.

That or you're a very subtle, very creative comedian.

You mean she's prettier.

No. I mean she looks more life-like. Vaseline compression or not.

...to better explain; the Nathan Drake in the initial reveal murders everything posted in this thread. He's not prettier.

He looks stylised but verging on realistic. She looks like anime realism. Not like a real person at all to me. She isn't convincing enough to verge on realism yet.

I wouldn't say a Bluray quality image of the Final Fantasy Spirits Within old scientist dude looks more real than a blurry DVD of Geena Davis, even side by side. I'm just not articulate to explain why I feel this way, but it expect and completely understand why people choose the left guy.

 

[Savantcore]

Uncharted 4 looks fun to play.

 

[Blimblim]

I've just put online my own fixed version of the UC4 video (the original was straight from Sony btw, we of course did not fuck up the video ourselves ):
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_psx_uncharted_4_gameplay_demo-16117_en.html

 

[Dictator93]

To me the Uncharted 4 characters look more impressive than the ACU ones, both look great but the ACU characters look more synthetic while the Uncharted 4 characters look more natural.

Though I do love that we are debating which near photo real characters look better, brings a smile to my face because not long ago characters in video games didn't look anything like real people.

Well they did, just not in many games.

Looks like people are upset(?) because it doesn't look as good as the reveal trailer from E3...I guess.

But does graphics really matter that much nowadays? Especially with such underpowered consoles.

just sayin

I do think it is is kinda bad on NDs part to float that OBVIOUSLY inaccurate to game footage that they did. I mean, 60 fps in that cutscene is not the same as 60fps in gameplay with similar quality...

Hell, I'd even go so far as to say the in-game character model for Ellie in TLoU:R is better than that woman in ACU:

Minus the hair, obviously.

I think that is stretching it. You are confusing dirt and detail painting into a difuse texture for being better looking technically. The shading on the eyes and soft tissue in ACU is pretty obviously more advanced, if not just perhaps overdone in the screens posted. But it being based upon maths , means it looks better from different positions and lighting conditions...

 

[StuBurns]

You know how in films they always wet the streets because the blacker road glistening looks cooler?

Betta Grafiks.

 

[Facism]

Hell, I'd even go so far as to say the in-game character model for Ellie in TLoU:R is better than that woman in ACU:

Minus the hair, obviously.

this is the thing, though. A character face with actual human issues or flaws, like a scar, freckles, whatever, will always look better than the real-doll esque nonsense people are arguing about here.

 

[kinggroin]

Hell, I'd even go so far as to say the in-game character model for Ellie in TLoU:R is better than that woman in ACU:

Minus the hair, obviously.

I agree with this actually. At least this image anyway; funny thing is I find it more real than Drake's brother still, haw!

 

[Conduit]

Even that difference is IMO only due to light conditions, DOF, and water effects. Reposting that image where I adjusted color and DOF to match the reveal trailer more closely. If you look at the hair you see that DOF blur makes it look less "polygony".

Why not compare cut-scene vs. cut-scene????

 

[Odah]

I do think it is is kinda bad on NDs part to float that OBVIOUSLY inaccurate to game footage that they did. I mean, 60 fps in that cutscene is not the same as 60fps in gameplay with similar quality...

Well I kind of got used to it to never trust any reveal trailers/gameplay demos.

Ubisoft does it, EA does it and numerous other game studios/publisher's.

I think the only one's that I have never seen doing this are Bethesda and 4A Games

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Hell, I'd even go so far as to say the in-game character model for Ellie in TLoU:R is better than that woman in ACU:

Minus the hair, obviously.

Definately if you add such detail (this is TLOU PS3 since the Remaster uses the hires models from cutscnes in game):

And this happens in gameplay (Uncharted 4 surely ahs it) while AC:Unity doesn't even have it in cutscenes.

 

[SeanR1221]

I think it looks fantastic, especially now that I've watched it in HD on youtube.

 

[dex3108]

Did anyone noticed that PSX Live gameplay is 99% same as gameplay they have released on YT few seconds after demo ended on PSX? Same enemy movement, placement and AI. Everything is almost exactly like on PSX except that bug when Drake ended up under map.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Well, I'm having a tough time deciding between these two shots. Elise gets bonus points for hair that obviously Steve Drake is not going to match, but when I was playing Unity I thought the other models were not up to her standard.

All i see is a wonderfully stylized model with what appears to be proper sub-surface scattering, wrinkles, sweat, blemishes, more detailed mesh, textures, etc vs a fucking mannequin from Madame Tussauds fucking wax museum.

original
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7561/15346980123_306f90f032_o.png

Elise has the immaculate powdered makeup look. UC4 is still better, ND are one of the best out there for cut scenes. Looking at some past Creed games cut scenes models, this is a big step up. Elise overall and animation captures femininity very well, maybe the best I've seen.

Alright now THIS GUY looks like he came straight from Madame Tussauds. Holy shit scary bad.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

This is a bad compare anyway. Clean no damage Nathan wouldn't look as detailed as himself with all those cuts blood bruises and sweat, anyway. The biggest difference is frame rate for now.

I think so, too. But I'm still not convinced that the hair is completely on par in the new footage.
Hope they reach 60FPS, iirc the got TLOU:R up to 60FPS only a few weeks prior to release, so I don't think we should be too worried that UC4 isn't running at 60FPS a year prior to release.
The E3 teaser showed that they can achieve this fidelity at 60FPS with enough optimisation.
The question is whether or not they have enough time to optimise and polish the whole game to that level.

 

[TronLight]

Definately if you add such detail (this is TLOU PS3 since the Remaster uses the hires models from cutscnes in game):

And this happens in gameplay (Uncharted 4 surely ahs it) while AC:Unity doesn't even have it in cutscenes.

Where is this slide from?

 

[Summer Haze]

All i see is a wonderfully stylized model with what appears to be proper sub-surface scattering, wrinkles, sweat, blemishes, more detailed mesh, textures, etc vs a fucking mannequin from Madame Tussauds fucking wax museum.

Hahaha. This.

 

[Gbraga]

I've just put online my own fixed version of the UC4 video (the original was straight from Sony btw, we of course did not fuck up the video ourselves ):
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_psx_uncharted_4_gameplay_demo-16117_en.html

Thanks Blimblim! I sure am glad my internet doesn't have caps anymore.

Time to upload some more Uncharted.

 

[kinggroin]

So my wife is as crazy as I am

She says brother Drake looks like a Pixar movie with really good graphics and Elise looks like a VHS of a red head.

 

[Dictator93]

Hope they reach 60FPS, iirc the got TLOU:R up to 60FPS only a few weeks prior to release, so I don't think we should be too worried that UC4 isn't running at 60FPS a year prior to release.

I think you should be weary of your hope. Scrounging up an extra 100% performance for an alredy good looking game in ecosystems with already low level APIs and mature graphical technqiues (people have been working with post shader model 2.0 for how long now?) is kind of a pipe dream.

Rather I imagine they will unlock the framerate near release and itwill fluctuate depending upon screen complexity quite heavily.

 

[djshauny]

The models look great. Why is everyone complaining?

 

[nelsonroyale]

This one gets to me...The texture work is superb:

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Where is this slide from?

Found it on the web but it must be from their SIGGRAPH presentation .

 

[StuBurns]

Did anyone noticed that PSX Live gameplay is 99% same as gameplay they have released on YT few seconds after demo ended on PSX? Same enemy movement, placement and AI. Everything is almost exactly like on PSX except that bug when Drake ended up under map.

Of course, they probably played it dozens of times to get the path exactly right. Although it's not quite the same. For example, the uploaded version doesn't have the tree stump cover deteriorating as quick as the live version did. For whatever reason, the AI was slower then. It's a shame, that was cooler in the live version.

 

[Summer Haze]

So my wife is as crazy as I am

She says brother Drake looks like a Pixar movie with really good graphics and Elise looks like a VHS of a red head.

I respect your (and your wife's) opinion. But I genuinely feel like we're looking at different shots.

 

[JP]

also, is it me or did they show a choice of pathways to take? i think they even showed two instances of that.

Been pointing this out all along, they seemed to be drawing attention to it in a few places. What seems to happen is that each section (that they showed) is an open area and there are just different way ways of getting from point A to point B.I t's still linear but the locations shown seem to be wider and taller and as I mentioned somewhere, I think that's one of the reasons for the lasso/hook type thing as it lets people deal traverse the verticality in ways that just wouldn't have been needed in the earlier games.

They've shown nothing suggests it's completely open now but the way I see it is that (using this diagram) in the earlier games you would start in one side of the large cube and travel in a straight line through 3 smaller cubes to get to the other side and that was essentially it.

The way I see it now is that they seem to have expanded the level so that you've all of the space shown in diagram to play around in while moving from one side to the other. You can still go in a straight line but there is the option to travel through it differently and if there are enemies in that area it may change how you interact with them.

 

[benny_a]

This one gets to me...The texture work is superb:

Looks like Knack

(I mean the stone / rock shading looks so similar between games nowadays.)

 

[Jigolo]

The models look great. Why is everyone complaining?

Because it's a big console exclusive and a very popular game. It's cool to hate on anything popular.

E.g - this thread over 2000 posts, Zelda thread over 2000 posts


Edit: actually over 3000 posts per thread. My bad

 

[nOoblet16]

For those comparing Elise to the model of Nate's brother . Just look at the eyes, eyebrows and eye lashes and you'll see AC4 model is nowhere near. Even Ellie from TLoU has better eye in the picture posted two pages ago. Also I have not seen a single white woman in her 20s with absolutely immaculate skin with zero marks or wrinkles or anything on her face, even with makeup it shows up when you are that close to a face. What I am trying to say is that it's incorrect to claim AC4 model is alive and real while the UC4 model looks lifeless as some dude did a few pages ago.

 

[Gbraga]

About this comparison, I think AC Unity looks absolutely amazing (honestly better than this gameplay demo), and Elise's model is incredible in motion, but in this comparison, Brother Drake is a lot more impressive to me.

Elise's hair is great though.

EDIT: Ellie atually kinda looks better than both though, haha.