Fighting Games Weekly | Dec 8-14 | Sony pleads the FiF

I've been pretty crazy busy the last couple of weeks with IRL stuff, NEC yesterday was the FGC thing I'd watched in a while. Did anyone watch the First Attack they did last (?) week with xD1x and Zero? I played Smash for a few hours like 2 or 3 weeks ago and had a great time and want to try to get into it, but I've had literally zero time to play games in the last couple of weeks. Figure I could at least watch that at work if it's good/informative for beginners, that few hours of Smash is about the only Smash I've ever played in my life, was a weird transition coming off of mostly just SF-esque games. I want to try to give the game a solid go, I might have a group of online friends that I can play with on a regular basis, which I haven't had for any fighting game in 5+ years.

Also is the netcode for Ultra on PC still all over the place? Last I checked after the first (or second?) patch people still seemed to be having experiences all of the place with it.
 
mbpm1 said:
ezgif-4056685839.gif
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Why lmao

This is more useless than bones in a mannequin

Btw season 1 Penny is in the running for the goat
 
Been sneaking some Xrd time in between studying for finals.

Got a Ky, Zato, Slayer, and Elphelt now. Working on Potemkin, Millia, and Venom now.

Feels weird being able to play all these characters at a decent level already just because of old knowledge.

Trying to decide who I should work on next.
 
Clawww said:
I hope there's an online mode with best of 3 matches! Other usability stuff is something they should hopefully have figure out on their own by now and by looking at other games. There are great suggestions in various threads here and on SRK; I'm not sure how useful it is though unless devs are directly asking for feedback or confirming that they're 'listening.'
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What speaks against it? They might do it themselves, but it doesn't change the fact that there's also a chance they just miss things or just look at things in another way than we do. Expecting them to know everything is unrealistic.

Kimosabae said:
Being that Capcom is a Japanese company, attempting direct feedback is cumbersome, unless you have access to an event where reps are present. Capcom Unity would be the best bet for internet discussion, but then you'd have to post on Capcom Unity.
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Ono has twitter, Haunts/Boyes have GAF accounts and I see no reason why posting at Capcom Unity would be something that should discourage anyone in participating.
As I said things should be reasonable and not unfeasible like a godlike netcode that works without lag on fisher price internet.
I can post the final thing on capcom unity if necessary. Better do it now rather than regret it later just because it's "cumbersome".
 
Some features off the top of my head
  • Tap to assign Button Checks (ala HDR and USFIV - but let people unassign buttons!)
  • Training Mode features! (live frame data would be nice for one ala VF, but I know others games have heaps better shit out there. The select to reset position was a nice start in USFIV)
  • Dojo feature from SFIV iOS to teach new comers about FG basics. There were trials designed to teach AA, blocking cross ups and high low attacks, how to deal with fireballs and other special moves. Was a pretty fun way to practice and teach some fundamentals by giving you grades on how well you performed. (SFIV Volt got rid of it in that version for some reason, even though it was an update/sequel...)
  • Playback in trial mode so you can see what the combo actually looks like before you go do it. This gives people something fun that's single player to do.
  • Rematch button (may even incorporate an option to rematch but with random stage too)
 
enzo_gt said:
I wish custom assists never make it into Marvel.

SG doesn't feel like Marvel at all, only thing I'd take from it is combo length.
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Come back into the thread and see this nonsense, smh

I need that stupid Viper Optic Blast and Dante Acid Rain assist like now. :lol
 
I could give you a wishlist for features in SF5:

Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.

Yes, it's that important. It's going to be a lot of time, money and effort but if they can't produce S-tier netcode for the game, the entire endeavor is irrelevant.
 
DunpealD said:
What speaks against it? They might do it themselves, but it doesn't change the fact that there's also a chance they just miss things or just look at things in another way than we do. Expecting them to know everything is unrealistic.



Ono has twitter, Haunts/Boyes have GAF accounts and I see no reason why posting at Capcom Unity would be something that should discourage anyone in participating.
As I said things should be reasonable and not unfeasible like a godlike netcode that works without lag on fisher price internet.
I can post the final thing on capcom unity if necessary. Better do it now rather than regret it later just because it's "cumbersome".
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I guess I'm just pessimistic about it. I read wish lists and people throw out a bunch of genuinely fantastic ideas and I'm just like, yeah, they're not going to do it. I don't have much faith in them implementing the nitty gritty usability stuff we'd all like to see and I just get slightly sad thinking about how none of it will come to fruition. Maybe it will, who knows.
 
Kumubou said:
I could give you a wishlist for features in SF5:

Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.

Yes, it's that important. It's going to be a lot of time, money and effort but if they can't produce S-tier netcode for the game, the entire endeavor is irrelevant.
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Quoted for truth. Please Capcom.
 
The minute you include custom assists, you have to suddenly balance every move so the assist version isn't broken. This is already necessary in marvel- for example, vanilla lariat assist having the hard knockdown property of the point version being removed in ultimate.
 
Kumubou said:
I could give you a wishlist for features in SF5:

Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.

Yes, it's that important. It's going to be a lot of time, money and effort but if they can't produce S-tier netcode for the game, the entire endeavor is irrelevant.
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The entire last generation kind of contradicts this.
 
enzo_gt said:
SG doesn't feel like Marvel at all, only thing I'd take from it is combo length.
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It sort of does. Well, maybe not Marvel 3. But I find it feels similar in a lot of ways to the older titles. I mean it's been a while since I've played all of them, but it's apparent to me when I watch match videos for those games and SG.
 
fader said:
wish marvel 3 used skullgirls gameplay.
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They're pretty similar. Mike has just gone to great (can't emphasize enough) lengths to tackle some of the more common issues plaguing lower and mid level execution.
Dahbomb said:
Custom assists are the future and the greatest thing that Skullgirls has brought to the fighting game genre.

People hate on that for no real reason.
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You haven't played online until you could set your own delay against someone in Eastern Europe or Japan.

SG was in the same generation as other fighting games in every regard except that one. Something as simple as that put it in it's very own category.

Maybe this is just my unique judgement as an online warrior, but that is how I feel after hundreds of hours online between all the BB and MvC3 versions (and dozens with SF).
 
Kumubou said:
I could give you a wishlist for features in SF5:

Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.
Don't use delay-based netcode.

Yes, it's that important. It's going to be a lot of time, money and effort but if they can't produce S-tier netcode for the game, the entire endeavor is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I see the charm to rollback netcode, and it would work correctly if the game had something in place to ensure that the game was running smoothly online so the instances of lag were rare. That will probably never be the case with Internet reliability though. I always heard how people thought SFxT's netcode was amazing but it was an utter mess to me, even beyond all the times it had to be patched. Every match felt like a freaking flip book, with skipped frames and teleporting happening all over the place. I'd rather have SFIV netcode where you can see a cross up coming then getting hit by a magical one that continues with a train of pain that makes you lose the whole match.
 
Clawww said:
Saying SG doesn't feel like Marvel at all is wrong and Mike Z would prolly laugh at that
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Mike Z also called Skullgirls "MvC2 Fixed," though.

The game shares a lot with MvC, doesn't feel like it though, for a bunch of reasons (animation, movement & speed in the neutral). This is a good thing.
 
Zissou said:
The minute you include custom assists, you have to suddenly balance every move so the assist version isn't broken. This is already necessary in marvel- for example, vanilla lariat assist having the hard knockdown property of the point version being removed in ultimate.
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Obviously so. It's not like I am asking MVC3 to suddenly introduce custom assists. the whole game has to be made with that in mind.

Imagine fucking Nova's Energy Javelin as an assist. Actually this is fun to theorize which assists you could have in MVC3 with custom assists:


*Deadpool's L Gunshot as an assist. Would basically give short characters something to be scared of as they duck many popular horizontal assists.
*Skrull's Tenderizer assist L version. Basically a Cold shot that also OTGs... godly.
*Dante's Hysterics as an assist (mini Missiles)
*Vergil's Lunar Phase (crazy lockdown)


All still not as broken as Hidden Missiles though.
 
LUCKY n WILD said:
I see the charm to rollback netcode, and it would work correctly if the game had something in place to ensure that the game was running smoothly online so the instances of lag were rare. That will probably never be the case with Internet reliability though. I always heard how people thought SFxT's netcode was amazing but it was an utter mess to me, even beyond all the times it had to be patched. Every match felt like a freaking flip book, with skipped frames and teleporting happening all over the place. I'd rather have SFIV netcode where you can see a cross up coming then getting hit by a magical one that continues with a train of pain that makes you lose the whole match.
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Which is why you want rollback netcode that allows you to set your own delay ala Skullgirls. We can even toss in miniature American flags and everyone wins.
 
You know what else would be cool?
Dramatic Battle Mode.

Or hell even give us that SFxT 4 player 2v2 everyone on screen at once mode for shits and giggles.

Setting up Team battles like in KoF games, or setting the size of the team like Tekken 3 would be pretty sweet as well. Maybe even a draft mode, where you take turns building your team one character at a time.

Fuk just give us a puzzle fighter mini-game in SFV. That shit would sell like hotcakes off that alone imo.
 
LUCKY n WILD said:
I'd rather have SFIV netcode where you can see a cross up coming then getting hit by a magical one that continues with a train of pain that makes you lose the whole match.
Click to expand...

A cross up that you saw coming but are still unable to block because the delay prevents your input from actually being the one you want at that time is better?
 
Regarding people who don't like rollbacks in their games (and this seems to be the case for a lot of people!), most GGPO-based games actually let you set the input delay that you use. If you want less rollbacks (and less severe ones), you can increase the input delay. If you want to try to play offline, you can zero it out and tough it out when you hit a sketchy connection. The best part of that is that it means your input delay is consistent, which makes it easier to adjust. That and honestly, a lot of the rollbacks you never notice, but allow you to push the delay far lower than what a straight delay-based interface would allow.

enzo_gt said:
The entire last generation kind of contradicts this.
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It is a bit hyperbolic, but I think the sub-standard networking (especially in the biggest games) really hurts the genre as a whole. It effects every level of play, really. Top players generally dislike playing online because the game plays differently due to the delay. Is that something that can be fixed 100%? No, but there's a lot of improvement that could be made. It hurts new players, too... not so much the raw netcode (as they're less likely to notice), but the second most important thing is matchmaking, and this is something most FGs also handle terribly as well. There's no point to putting up a new player up against someone who has 5,000 games played. That's the sort of body montage that leads to people to quitting within 3 games and never coming back. The most important thing to keep games interesting for players at all levels is to make sure the matches are evenly matches (or some familiarization thereof).
 
That Rivals of Aether thread had a small conversation topic that has always been interesting but I never see anyone talk about it enough. How come Street Fighter exists as the genre king of traditional (for the sake of this discussion traditional = "lifebar depletion") fighters and smaller or more alternative games a la Guilty Gear, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, et al. still find large or devoted followings, but Smash as the genre king for the "platformer fighter" (basically, Smash's entire emphasis on staying on stage while forcing others off and dynamics involving stage design and interaction) doesn't have any alternate takes period, never mind alternate takes that are successful?

Is it really just about people feeling they have to twist the basics of the design just enough so that they're more originul™/don't appear as straight up derivatives of the game play style or is it just fear that you have to directly compete with the Galactus in the room that is "every character you probably grew up playing at some point in the last 30 years from Nintendo vs. themselves" as just John Doe Entertainment? I personally feel like there's a niche that can be capitalized on as long as a dev team makes an attempt that focuses on the strengths of the design while creating a strong visual identity for themselves.
 
Beesuit said:
You know what else would be cool?
Dramatic Battle Mode.

Or hell even give us that SFxT 4 player 2v2 everyone on screen at once mode for shits and giggles.

Setting up Team battles like in KoF games, or setting the size of the team like Tekken 3 would be pretty sweet as well. Maybe even a draft mode, where you take turns building your team one character at a time.

Fuk just give us a puzzle fighter mini-game in SFV. That shit would sell like hotcakes off that alone imo.
Click to expand...

Forget all this casual stuff imo.

We need an extensive training mode, good online, great mechanics, and a balanced roster. Don't give them any ideas on how to waste resources they need to produce a good base game first.
 
Skullgirls matchmaking and netcode (on PC anyway) is pretty much the best I've ever played, so just copy them. lol

Being able to adjust my GGPO delay and seeing my NUMERICAL PING after being paired up is a big deal!
 
Marz said:
Forget all this casual stuff imo.

We need an extensive training mode, good online, great mechanics, and a balanced roster. Don't give them any ideas on how to waste resources they need to produce a good base game first.
Click to expand...

I guess if they're really hard-pressed for resources, all this stuff could wait for an add-on update later down the road.

Nyoro SF said:
Being able to adjust my GGPO delay and seeing my NUMERICAL PING after being paired up is a big deal!
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Damn, I never would of thought of that at all lol
 
SolarKnight said:
A cross up that you saw coming but are still unable to block because the delay prevents your input from actually being the one you want at that time is better?
Click to expand...

Video games are visual. Once that element is thrown off and appears to be fast forwarding is when I'm thrown out of the game and feel like I'm playing someone's sick replay.
 
Azure J said:
That Rivals of Aether thread had a small conversation topic that has always been interesting but I never see anyone talk about it enough. How come Street Fighter exists as the genre king of traditional (for the sake of this discussion traditional = "lifebar depletion") fighters and smaller or more alternative games a la Guilty Gear, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, et al. still find large or devoted followings, but Smash as the genre king for the "platformer fighter" (basically, Smash's entire emphasis on staying on stage while forcing others off and dynamics involving stage design and interaction) doesn't have any alternate takes period, never mind alternate takes that are successful?

Is it really just about people feeling they have to twist the basics of the design just enough so that they're more originul™/don't appear as straight up derivatives of the game play style or is it just fear that you have to directly compete with the Galactus in the room that is "every character you probably grew up playing at some point in the last 30 years from Nintendo vs. themselves" as just John Doe Entertainment? I personally feel like there's a niche that can be capitalized on as long as a dev team makes an attempt that focuses on the strengths of the design while creating a strong visual identity for themselves.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head, essentially. Fighting big brands is hard, and it's rare that you see any strong competition emerge to veteran franchises unless the stars literally align. And doing that against Nintendo is pretty difficult.

Visual identity is a massive part of that IMO. In gaming today, I feel like games tend to lean towards some safe niches in terms of visual style that gamers of all kinds resonate with (8-bit/blocky, pastel TF2 look/realism). I think it's hard enough to create a protagonist that stands out, let alone one that does so to enough people to make back your investment. It won't be any of the current franchises out that dethrones MK/SF.
 
Kumubou said:
It is a bit hyperbolic, but I think the sub-standard networking (especially in the biggest games) really hurts the genre as a whole. It effects every level of play, really. Top players generally dislike playing online because the game plays differently due to the delay. Is that something that can be fixed 100%? No, but there's a lot of improvement that could be made. It hurts new players, too... not so much the raw netcode (as they're less likely to notice), but the second most important thing is matchmaking, and this is something most FGs also handle terribly as well. There's no point to putting up a new player up against someone who has 5,000 games played. That's the sort of body montage that leads to people to quitting within 3 games and never coming back. The most important thing to keep games interesting for players at all levels is to make sure the matches are evenly matches (or some familiarization thereof).
Click to expand...
You bet it does. Imagine the thought process of your casual fighting game fan when they play the premier fighter(s) and the online experience is ass. If you were in their uninformed shoes would you even consider going online with B tier fighters like BlazBlue, KOF or a rinky dink $15 remaster/indie fighter? It's a bad first impression and it sets a bad tone for everything that isn't pushed by brand power and marketing dollars.
 
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