D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, but he pissed people off. Don't piss anybody off.
CM Punk signs with UFC
- Thread starter Dysun
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Yeah, but he pissed people off. Don't piss anybody off.
But don't be afraid to rub people the wrong way to get that brass ring like Austin!
Oh, is that what wrestlers are paid for? Weird.
Again, bizarre. Let's say an actor stars in a film that makes $300 million. I can see you'd be there shouting them down for complaining they only got paid $100k. Can't they appreciate making so much money for 3 months of work?!
How is it ego to not want to travel? It's entirely his choice to make! I don't understand how you see the world. You have this weird irrational hatred, facts and details be damned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgUyzKwrTcU
Jordan was pretty legit at rigged MLB-level baseball though
TunaMarshmallow
Member
If his training goes well, they can try to give him the Herschel Walker treatment. (In short, if he's good enough to beat someone bad, then they can book him against bad fighters and get a few fights out of him.)
If his training goes poorly--which it probably will--then they can give him the James Toney treatment.
If his training goes poorly--which it probably will--then they can give him the James Toney treatment.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Exactly. I feel like the real Vince would know that...
Really though, to listen to Austin he was as much of a pain in the ass. It seemingly doesn't matter if you piss Vince off as long as you make him money for the most part.
WWE is a fun place to work!
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Big problem is that Punk wasn't able to make serious money outside of merch for his year+ title reign he was given. Whether it ultimately was management's fault, or Punk's fault, or the doctor's fault, he was unable to recapture being the main draw of WWE and some of that fault certainly falls on him for that.
Now, if he were to mention coming back, he's in the main event, and he's a money draw. That may be the roundabout way this is going, and nothing will make Vince happier than putting aside butthurt for the mutual love of money.
Yes. Wrestlers are paid to be athletic and look like they lift weights once in a while.
A better argument would be Jeremy Renner throwing a bitch fit over not getting paid as much as RDJ for The Avengers.
You don't think it is an ego/laziness problem in jumping into the highest level of MMA competition as a complete amateur and publicly announce you don't want to travel to get the training you need to not get smashed? That's insulting to whoever he's going to fight and insulting to UFC as a company for giving him an undeserved shot that he's not willing to put full effort into. Which ties nicely into him being unappreciative of what he got from the last company he worked for.
funkystudent
Member
My prediction.
Dude is going to get knocked the f out in one of his first 2 fights and will be wrestling in Japan by Wrestle Kingdom 11.
Dude is going to get knocked the f out in one of his first 2 fights and will be wrestling in Japan by Wrestle Kingdom 11.
Employees are paid to make their employer money. Employees who make their employer more money should be paid more. How many weights a wrestler lifts is completely irrelevant unless it impacts how much money it makes their employer.
No I dont. Do fighters start off training twice a day flying across the country to do it? I don't think so. No one would start. He hasn't made his decision about his team, and his preference is to get the best group of trainers he can while balancing his need to train as often as possible by being relatively close to home.
What a monster.
Kano on the Phone
Member
That's a different conversation. I was taking issue with stro saying that he somehow got more than he deserved, like he was just some dude who walked in and was placed in the main event and didn't sell a shitload of merch and make them a lot of money. Whether or not that was Cena or Hogan money isn't relevant because Punk made a solid case for not getting a bigger bite of the money he did make for them.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Id feel the same way about him if I was a comic book writer tbf. After all that shit he talked abiut part timers hes decided to go and do two things that he is absolutely not qualified to do and take a paycheck from people who deserve it.
Definitely not Punk's fault. Nothing in WWE was his fault. It was always politics and people holding him back. Couldn't be that when he got the chance to pretty much say what he wanted on TV, he became an ultra snarky annoying dude who was really proud of himself for saying insidery things, looking directly into the camera, and calling people "toolbox". You can blame HHH and Nash getting involved with his angle, but who do you blame for him being an annoying twat on TV that ruined any of his coolness he had gained form the pipe bomb. Nothing has ever been his fault and this goes back to his days on the indies. Always the booker's fault. Always the fault of the shitty dude he had to work with. Never his fault. Nothing ever is.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Interesting hole in Punk's story about female fighters in UFC from the Observer:
Punk said he reminded Vince how people think his product is horrible and barbaric, and he said Vince said “Did you know they are going to have women fight?” and Punk said, “Yeah, it’s the coolest thing in the world, you’ll see.” He said Vince was out of touch.
“It’s more promotion (for the Rumble), more eyes on the product, my home town people will be going crazy. Then the next week (it was actually more than three months later, the May 5, 2012, fight in Las Vegas against Miguel Cotto) HHH walks Mayweather to the ring.”
There is one huge flaw in this subject. First, Vince had so much of a problem with UFC being barbaric that he was in talks to buy Pride and had paid people to research him starting his own MMA promotion years ago. At one point, they at least entertained the idea of buying UFC itself. When he decided against starting his own promotion (his idea was an all-heavyweight promotion built around Bob Sapp, with the idea Sapp would also become a major outsider draw as a pro wrestler on major shows), it was never about barbaric. His complaint was being unable to protect investments, i.e., the most charismatic guys may lose at the wrong time. It was the same thing he said in 2007 when UFC was gaining in popularity and outdistancing WWE in many demos, that the UFC business model couldn’t survive because you would spend all kinds of money behind marketing someone, and then if they lose, all that money is wasted. Where Vince missed the boat is that, unlike with boxing, in UFC, because the fan base was more a pro wrestling fan oriented base, one loss doesn’t kill ones marketability.
When this all went down, I was told Vince’s reason was he didn’t want his world champion on UFC’s FOX show and not being identified, or treated like somebody who wasn’t a big star. Keep in mind that I’d say 80% or better Punk would have been identified had he been in Sonnen’s corner. He was identified on UFC television many times later that year when he attended live shows. But Vince didn’t know that.
More than anything else, these comments Punk attributed to Vince made him appear to be the old man who is now out of touch. It was one of the most talked about things from Punk’s entire rundown. However, something doesn’t appear to make sense on the surface.
In January 2012, how would Vince McMahon have known UFC was about to have women fighters? Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta were asked about that subject constantly, and the answer was always the same. “There will never be women fighting in the UFC.”
The stories about women fighting in UFC and Ronda Rousey in UFC didn’t even break until mid-November, nearly 11 months after this conversation.
Again, the Vince McMahon who is so out of touch he thinks UFC is barbaric and people will die, has figured out women are fighting in UFC nearly two months before White sees his fight that opened his eyes to the subject, sees the potential, but even then keeps it quiet from almost everyone. The idea that maybe McMahon heard about Rousey and assumed she was in UFC doesn’t add up. Rousey’s first real big mainstream was being on the cover of the annual ESPN Body Magazine, and that was still months away.
Punk said he reminded Vince how people think his product is horrible and barbaric, and he said Vince said “Did you know they are going to have women fight?” and Punk said, “Yeah, it’s the coolest thing in the world, you’ll see.” He said Vince was out of touch.
“It’s more promotion (for the Rumble), more eyes on the product, my home town people will be going crazy. Then the next week (it was actually more than three months later, the May 5, 2012, fight in Las Vegas against Miguel Cotto) HHH walks Mayweather to the ring.”
There is one huge flaw in this subject. First, Vince had so much of a problem with UFC being barbaric that he was in talks to buy Pride and had paid people to research him starting his own MMA promotion years ago. At one point, they at least entertained the idea of buying UFC itself. When he decided against starting his own promotion (his idea was an all-heavyweight promotion built around Bob Sapp, with the idea Sapp would also become a major outsider draw as a pro wrestler on major shows), it was never about barbaric. His complaint was being unable to protect investments, i.e., the most charismatic guys may lose at the wrong time. It was the same thing he said in 2007 when UFC was gaining in popularity and outdistancing WWE in many demos, that the UFC business model couldn’t survive because you would spend all kinds of money behind marketing someone, and then if they lose, all that money is wasted. Where Vince missed the boat is that, unlike with boxing, in UFC, because the fan base was more a pro wrestling fan oriented base, one loss doesn’t kill ones marketability.
When this all went down, I was told Vince’s reason was he didn’t want his world champion on UFC’s FOX show and not being identified, or treated like somebody who wasn’t a big star. Keep in mind that I’d say 80% or better Punk would have been identified had he been in Sonnen’s corner. He was identified on UFC television many times later that year when he attended live shows. But Vince didn’t know that.
More than anything else, these comments Punk attributed to Vince made him appear to be the old man who is now out of touch. It was one of the most talked about things from Punk’s entire rundown. However, something doesn’t appear to make sense on the surface.
In January 2012, how would Vince McMahon have known UFC was about to have women fighters? Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta were asked about that subject constantly, and the answer was always the same. “There will never be women fighting in the UFC.”
The stories about women fighting in UFC and Ronda Rousey in UFC didn’t even break until mid-November, nearly 11 months after this conversation.
Again, the Vince McMahon who is so out of touch he thinks UFC is barbaric and people will die, has figured out women are fighting in UFC nearly two months before White sees his fight that opened his eyes to the subject, sees the potential, but even then keeps it quiet from almost everyone. The idea that maybe McMahon heard about Rousey and assumed she was in UFC doesn’t add up. Rousey’s first real big mainstream was being on the cover of the annual ESPN Body Magazine, and that was still months away.
SpideySenses
Member
Eh, it was probably a later conversation and he got confused about the timeline. Either way, I'm guessing Vince was just giving him any excuse to shut him up, he's a control freak, Punk could have given him a milllion good reasons and he still wouldn't have budged.
I heard it. You stayed on topic pretty well for the most part. The story about that dude from the Netherlands was crazy. The guy sounds like a real piece of work.
Thanks man, that means a lot.
Just thought, the biggest time gap that really annoys me is whenever Nash talks about the finger poke of doom. He always said that Goldberg would have gotten his pay off on the nWo if he never punched that limo window... That was almost an entire year apart and different guy in charge even.
Hmmmm. Plus didn't he start the whole acquiring MMA fighters as Pro Wrestlers? Seems to me yes. At least in this country in a big time promotion.
Yeah wtf, Vince brought in Ken Shamrock, had him do shoot style matches while using UFC footage to hype him. Even did his own version of the octagon for a gimmick match. In the 90s. I'm sure he's well aware of everything that goes on with UFC since they are his biggest PPV competition.
Sato Koiji
Member
Punks opponent should have absolute dynamite in his hands. The hands dont even have to be very technical...just fucking loaded.
Mark Munoz?
CM Punk VS Mark Munoz...oh yeah bring it on!!!
Mark Munoz?
CM Punk VS Mark Munoz...oh yeah bring it on!!!
Ninja Scooter
Member
Mark Munoz might actually legit kill CM Punk.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
I get a concussion just watching this video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x71ew1_owen-hart-vs-ken-shamrock-dungeon-m_sport. see: 1:55, 2:05, 2:40, 3:12 etc.
LOL wtf I never knew this happened. I automatically thought of the Lion's Den match he had with Blackman. This is great. Love how they push Stu Hart's dungeon as if its something legit then Owen throws a spinning wheel kick.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Meltzer's "hole in Punk's story" theory has more holes in it than Punk's story.
You can't dismiss out-of-hand the very real possibility that Vince didn't know the difference between UFC and Strikeforce. That's foolishness. It's well-known that the "UFC" and "Ultimate Fighting" brands are kinda like "Kleenex" to the casual crowd. Also, at the time, Strikeforce was much more available to the general public than UFC, with their deals with NBC and CBS on broadcast, and Showtime on premium cable.
Also "The idea that maybe McMahon heard about Rousey and assumed she was in UFC doesnt add up. Rouseys first real big mainstream was being on the cover of the annual ESPN Body Magazine, and that was still months away." -- That's silly. It perfectly adds up.
Muddying the waters between what is Strikeforce and what is UFC, of course, is the fact that in March 2011, Zuffa, UFC's parent company, had already purchased Strikeforce.
In late 2011, Rousey had been all over the media "talking herself into" the fight with Meisha Tate for months (especially from Aug-Nov) before the fight was even announced, and Tate and Rousey's back-and-forth frothing hatred was well-covered in the media.
The scheduling of Rousey v. Tate as the co-headliner of Strikeforce's Jan 2012 event (the same month CM Punk was denied) was already known by the MMA media in November 2011. The original headline fight was to be Barnett vs. Cormier for the Strikeforce Heavyweight Tourney FInal was officially scratched in December 2011 leaving Rousey/Tate the headliner.
So the fact that a UFC-owned company was going to have a Women's fight headlining their event was known in Jan. 2012.
Vince knew about UFC in 1997. Specifically the UFC. He also used their footage and promoted UFC PPVs on Raw in 1997 when he brought in Ken Shamrock, then again when he brought in Dan Severn. When Brock Lesnar signed to the UFC and won the title, the WWE.com website congratulated him. Are you really implying that Vince somehow forgot what the UFC was over the course of 15 years because of a new company that popped up? The same UFC he had an actual business relationship with at one time? Get the fuck out. That's some asinine shit right there. This is the same Vince that remembers specific deals he made with people all the way back to the 1970s. Suddenly he forgot all about the UFC, the biggest direct competitor to his PPV business? The same UFC that WWE had the final word on letting TUF follow Raw or not?
There is absolutely zero chance Vince McMahon didn't know the difference between UFC and a smaller promotion at any point. Zero. Even if he WANTED to forget, UFC comes up in their conference calls and business meetings all the time. You can't just not know who your main competitor is.
There is absolutely zero chance Vince McMahon didn't know the difference between UFC and a smaller promotion at any point. Zero. Even if he WANTED to forget, UFC comes up in their conference calls and business meetings all the time. You can't just not know who your main competitor is.
I give this 10/10 concussions! Would eerrrr watch again but my head feels all foggy.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Didn't know or didn't care? Either is completely understandable. Like I said, Strikeforce was OWNED BY ZUFFA at the time. Owned by UFC. You think Vince bought that "we're going to run them as separate brands" bullshit line Zuffa was running about Strikeforce (the same bullshit Vince had spewed about WCW, Smackdown, and ECW) for one minute?
Also, in terms of mainstream cable TV, in the leadup to this, Strikeforce was actually more available than UFC at the time. It had deals with NBC, CBS, (with events broadcast on OTA TV) and Showtime in the years when UFC was pretty much resigned to Spike and PPV.
Again, there is ZERO chance Vince McMahon didn't know the difference between UFC and Strikeforce or any other MMA company. Vince worked personally with the UFC in the 90s and worked with them and Spike when UFC was picked up by Spike. As late as 3 years before women fighters were in UFC, WWE.com had a write up about Brock in the UFC. He didn't just suddenly forget or stop caring, especially as UFC started eating into and surpassing WWE's PPV buys. Absolutely stupid argument you're trying to make.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I just read an article that proposed CM Punk vs. Joe Rogan.
I'd watch it. Even though the true entertainment would be the result of Rogan's drug test.
I'd watch it. Even though the true entertainment would be the result of Rogan's drug test.
This would never happen. Joe would probably land a head kick that would destroy him.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Joe would either land a jumping reverse hook kick or get a twister.
All dat dere alpha brain gives him bullet time all the time.
For those who don't know: Rogan's a legit Tae Kwon Doe fighter and I imagine his BJJ is at a "good enough for UFC" level.
Imagine Joe's spinning back kick into the soft, under developed abdominals of Punk.
Ninja Scooter
Member
He'd probably be able to beat Punk AND call his own fight at the same time. "I hurt him Mile!"
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Is he good? Not familiar with UFC at all.
I have to wonder if a fight with Cathal Pendred would be sanctioned. He would beat the brakes off CM Punk. I don't see it happening.
Well, no.
Well, no.
Listening to the pod with Cabana, and the interviews at the UFC event on the weekend... I have to say Punk does strike me as a bit of a diva. Whenever anyone asked him if he was ready he cracked that same tired, "look at me, look at this suit, don't I look good?" joke and flashed his school-boy smile. All his answers were self-serving and he name checked all the right people and said all the humble things... but man is he SMUG! And he did a lot of press, a lot of it.
I don't want to slap him with a "tone" argument, but he clearly cannot turn off the "face."
And the pod with Cabana. He had such a rich career and it's all "why wasn't I at this PPV, why wasn't I in this story, why why why?" There are only so many wrestlers and not everyone can headline every PPV, and not every wrestler gets everyone they want in a storyline. And he talks about going to Vince with all these story ideas and promotion ideas. I don't know how the WWE works, but is that how things are done? You talk to Vince? Is that the order of escalation? Did he go over peoples heads? Do the superstars usually come up with angles and ideas by themselves all the time?
Maybe they do, but from the pod I kind of felt like Punk was trying to throw his weight around a bit too much.
Although all that shit with HHH seems about right, HHH comes off as an asshole lol.
I'm sure the WWE sucks for the most part, but Punk is probably a pill.
Start off? No. Fighters also don't start off in the UFC on PPV. Would Punk demand to be "close to home" for Wrestlemania? No he would go. That's what he's stepping into. He's doing a PPV. If his best shot means spending six months in Brazil training, and he willfully chooses not to because he wants deep dish, than that's on him.
I could toss that up to a dart throw. In January 2012 there were thousands of people talking about women in the UFC. It's something there was a lot of public interest in.
Also consider in that quote Vince supposedly knows women are gonna be in the UFC, and he asks Punk if he knew that "they are going to have women fight?" What does Punk say? "Yeah." So how does Punk know?! It's just people reading the tea leaves.
I don't see Vince being this anti-women fighting guy though. I mean, doesn't Punk's wife FIGHT in the WWE? Despite the knock on Vince being he's stuck in the 80s with all the body builder types, he still gave Punk the strap for 400+ days. Vince may be a little slow and out-of-touch at times, but I don't think he'd ever tell fans what they do or don't want.
Guh? What was this podcast?
Demand? He doesn't need to demand anything from anyone. He can do whatever the hell he wants.
Neither of you make any sense and really the feelings the two of you have toward this whole thing sound like they're more about each of you and not him. It's just a little weird how far people are willing to go to make sure he and this whole thing are terrible.
Ninja Scooter
Member
He's not good, but Punk's not anything. It's like if John Cena played basketball against Kwame Brown.
It makes perfect sense to think a dude with no fighting experience going to have his first fight at the highest level of MMA to not want to leave his city to do training is a cocky, lazy asshole. He's a guy that complains about money and respect, and then gets a chance that no one in his place should get and openly announces he isn't going to do the same thing that EVERY fighter does and either travel or relocate to camp. He apparently thinks he's better than Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, GSP, and anyone else. Despite not even having an amateur fight to his credit. All while getting an immediate PPV match when so many dudes have to work years just to get a shitty UFC contract and work up to a PPV. All while bitching about part timers in WWE taking his spot and money.
You're assigning so much nonsense on to someone else I don't even know where to begin. Thinks he's better than Anderson Silva, Jon Jones and GSP? Huh? Because he wants to get a team together in a place he can dedicate the most time to?
This crusade of yours is ridiculous. He HAS to be an asshole, so you'll twist anything and everything to make it true.
An amateur not going to a camp that isn't near him is pretty cocky. Lazy as shit at best. The highest of top talent travel for camp. But CM Punk, a dude with absolutely zero fighting experience, announces he won't do traveling to train for what is an opportunity that no one has gotten before just because he's known from something else? I fail to understand how that doesn't sound like asshole behavior.
I'm a UFC fan who knows almost nothing about WWE, but it seems like this guy is gonna definitely make uncle Dana some $$$. It might be a short sighted cash grab which ends up hurting the UFC's legitimacy, but clearly this CM Punk guy is popular, polarizing, and controversial. If he's actually an amazing mma fighter too, which I highly doubt, that would be the perfect recipe for success in this sport. I mean not every scrub that gets signed gets a 14 page thread here.
So according to you he's top tier talent who needs to travel like the other top tier talent? I get the feeling that if he announced he was going to travel long distances to train with the best in the world you'd say he was being awful presumptuous to think he could just drop in with amazing trainers.
If he can assemble great trainers 90 minutes from where he lives so he can work at it as often as he needs to for the next year, that's a cocky thing to do? You're being completely unreasonable.
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