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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Book 2 finale is even worse.
At least that one had a "omg at least I hope Book 3 can be better" factor, Book 4 is the end and it'll be crap
Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
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At least that one had a "omg at least I hope Book 3 can be better" factor, Book 4 is the end and it'll be crap
JadedWriter
Member
Wait that's you? Explains the kuvira lust, you guys have the same eyebeyebrows.
I told you guys, but all Chariot did was make fun of me. :,(
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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Imagine if Lin would've never gotten her bending back, I bet that would've been more interesting.
Book 2 finale was worse to me. Because for all of the awfulness that was the last 20 min of Endgame, the first half wasn't that bad. Book 2's finale was a trainwreck front to back. And it was pretty boring the entire time tbh.
Not even the long fight sequences were interesting. The only thing I found interesting about Book 2's finale was Tenzin in the Spirit World and Tenzin + Korra's talk in the tree. But the rest was really really bad.
Also @ TAK I didn't know that was you in your avatar. I didn't mean anything by my last comment. I'm used to Kuvira, and I like it a lot more then what you have now. All I meant. I wish you would bring it back. Seriously. Korra is about to end. Why not ride out the series with it?
EDIT: On a technical level, you guys are right Endgame is much worse. Like, the writing there was atorcious. Book 2 had the shitty Jinora plot device. But it wasn't anywhere as mind numblingly bad as Korra getting her powers back from Spirit Aang. Really, the last 15 min of Endgame was just insanely bad on all levels.
I think Book 2's finale was just bad in terms of like, the visuals and the pacing. And just the story being told. But outside of Jinora it wasn't like offensively bad. Basically, I took more issue with Book 2's execution, not so much the premise. Wheras Book 1's finale, the premise was fucked. Both the premise and the execution.
So I guess I'll agree with you guys. You are right, Endgame is worse.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Also amazing how useless everyone is.
Winterfang
Banned
I didn't liked that Kuvira didn't cared about his fiancée. That makes her character more cliché and ruins his fiance also. At least Milo wasn't part of the kidnapping, he is insufferable.
Maybe the design looks too sci-fi. But the idea of a mech itself, isn't that far fetched. Well...okay. I think the idea that they are able to harness spirit energy into laser beams is kind of silly. BUT...the spirit energy does exist. So it's not like it doesn't make sense or came out of no where.
I just think the idea of a big walking robot, just looks damn silly (or rather the design itself, since we've had robots before in Season 1). It's like, they've done such a bad job with Kuvira up to this point. That it's even more funny to see the final showdown elevate her to cartoony villain status with a big fuckin mech. I really still can't believe this is what they chose to end the series on.
Even Zaheer (for all the flaws of them not fleshing him out enough, or the flaws in his philosophy)...it just felt more tangible. Like he was trying to shift the way the world would move on post Harmonic Convergence. So it felt like his actions (and what he was trying to do) had more importance.
Vs Kuvira....just a personal vendetta. A Napoleon Complex ego stroking shallow villain. It's like...okay. So that's how you are ending this eh?
It's just so weird to me. Because like, before Amon was a fraud...the implications of Amon's movement, and what it meant moving forward felt big. Unalaq (despite being a shit villain)...the Harmonic Convergence plot was like insanely important to the world. And even Zaheer, while he felt like a one man army, what he was trying to do, felt like it was going to move the world in a new direction (with the Avatar cycle no longer existing -- period).
Kuvira just feels like a silly dictator trying to stroke her ego (basically like Ozai, but without all the build up, and generations of war to back it up).
So it's such a bizarre thing to go with. Apart of me thinks the writers were lazy, and just decided to default back to Ozai style plot. Thinking, they could mirror the Aang finale with Korra's finale.
But considering each season felt like it had a conflict with some real weight, and real impact on the world of Avatar, this is just weird. The only thing that really held this season together, was Korra's fall out from the previous 3 seasons. Her reacting to people trying to take away her identity and her not knowing if the Avatar is relevant anymore. So it was the struggles she had. But even that plot was handled so wonky. And even when she finally did get her groove back, I never really felt like...the resolution felt emotionally impacting enough.
I know this wouldn't be popular, but I wish they would have just focused more on Korra's training and her going through her emotional issues. Because I feel like we kind of got this erratic season that didn't do enough well (but tried to do a bunch of things mediocre).
JadedWriter
Member
Yeah she's "good hitler" which is like a God damn oxymoron. They could've given her a decent back chose not to, which really just bothers me. She's like Dick dastardly with tits, which blows cause at the beginning I was confident that they wouldn't fuck her over.
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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
There's nothing to "get", she's just a bad character and bad villian, and you're trying to rationalize how Byrke fucked up.
Lol what is there to get? She has no deep motivation or conviction for why her taking over drives her. That it's something she has to do. She has no past that we saw that pushed her character and shaped who she is. She's just a greedy villain that wants power. Nothing more, nothing less. Villains like this aren't bad if they have a cool design and are fun to watch. For some, Kuvira is that. But she never really impressed me beyond her initial introduction. She always felt like wasted potential.
Also considering this is the end of the series, it really seems kind of strange to end the show on a shallow villain/ that is just bad to be bad. I guess apart of that was to focus on Korra's own demons. Her own struggles (but even that was kind of handled poorly).
It's a shame, because there was so much going for Kuvira's plot. The political implications. Even just like, her history with the earth kingdom. Even the plot with Aang/Zuko post the Fire Nation wars (and how they took the colony from the earth kingdom). But none of that mattered.
What we got instead was just a greedy/ego person that just wanted as much power as possible. Okay.
I still think Book 4 will be looked at better once the show is over. I mean, episode to episode. I always think the season will be a failure in terms of the overall plot they were telling. But in terms of episodes, I think this will hold up better.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Toa it was funny for a while, but it now feels like you're purposely being stubborn. There's nothing to get about Kuvira, she could have been an interesting character but she didn't get any development whatsoever and her motivations are pretty fucking simplistic. It's fine if you like her, but there is little reason for anybody else to like her and it largely feels like people that do have some like this romantic ideal of what she should be. But she isn't that.
The same reason you keep praising S2 finale. It's ok if you liked it, but if the large majority of the fanbase doesn't it doesn't mean everybody else is wrong and you're right. This isn't the fish poster of Fargo TV.
The same reason you keep praising S2 finale. It's ok if you liked it, but if the large majority of the fanbase doesn't it doesn't mean everybody else is wrong and you're right. This isn't the fish poster of Fargo TV.
Astral Dog
Member
At this point, there is not much they can do, just make Kuvira a true sociopath/cartoon villain, and snap, a fight with Korra were she is overconfident and laughs, that would not be so bad.
I liked when she just blow everyone up at the end of last episode, more moments like those would have been better. but she is kind of a slighty less evil version of Unalaq.
Edit: also, whats up with the Earth Empire?
How are they going to justify them abandoning Kuvira? since they were formed, they wear those freaky masks and are more cartoony than the equalists, we dont know whats up with them, are they really loyal? or just forced like Suyin says?
lol to be fair, would be hard being a fan of this series that loves everything. Imagine thinking Book 2 was the best season of the show, and yet a lot of the fan base thinks its horrid.
I've seen quite a few people on GAF who think the entire series has been great front to back (even saying they had no issue with Book 1s ending). I've also noticed like, when you read the comments on IGN's reviews, or AV Clubs, it seems a lot of people really love this series and think it's pretty perfect.
Oh yeah, definitely. They chose the path they were going to take with her. At this point they need to just blow shit up and go crazy with her. I wish I didn't find that robot so silly looking though lol. Although I'm sure at some point, Kuvira will be taken out of it, and will be fighting on land. The fight should be interesting.
Also, whatever complaints you have of this show, the choreography can be amazing. Zhaeer + Korra in Book 3's finale had some incredible moments. So I do expect this finale to deliver an epic fight. I just hope they don't have Kuvira in that robot for the majority of the fight.
Please Bryke, no Big Blue Korra Kaiju against the mech.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Some people have different standards for TV. For example I don't hold anime to the same standards as western TV, because if so there would only be a few shows I would consider damn amazing enough to keep up with some of my favorite dramas/sci-fis, such as Cowboy Bebop.
Maybe it's the more you watch amazing tv and read great novels the more your standards are raised to what is considered amazing.
I'm going to mock The Mob Doctor or w/e the fuck is called if I've already seen The Sopranos. I want to ignore that shit like Big Bang Theory exists when there is a much better nerd sitcom in the IT Crowd. I do the same for a lot of FOX shows now, because I've watched some of the best drama out there (The Wire, Breaking Bad, True Detective, etc...)
Maybe. I dunno. I just always take the position that, if someone enjoys something, then that is all that matters. I guess in terms of debates, that really doesn't hold too much water (especially if you are using that argument to tell other people they are wrong).
I guess I see it both ways. I get annoyed when people are saying you are being nitpicky, or you just look for things to hate. Or you don't love things. Blah blah.
I do understand how like, it can be frustrating to be a big fan of something. And then like a lot of the convo surrounding it is always negative. But I also just think that, it's the nature of discussing a show. Personally, there are plenty of things that I love dearly, and I find it baffling when others tear it apart. But I also, engage in the conversation and try to explain why I think they are wrong (like really articulate my view points on it).
And, if it gets fatiguing, I just ignore it or don't jump in the debate.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Should spirit energy even harm Korra? The beam should supercharge her so that she can just wipe the entire battlefield without breaking a sweat. She should be able to that anyway.
To echo Azula's sentiments, I care about good and consistent writing and characters irrespective of medium. The whole Korra series has been all over the place and it's been really frustrating because I want it to be good.
To echo Azula's sentiments, I care about good and consistent writing and characters irrespective of medium. The whole Korra series has been all over the place and it's been really frustrating because I want it to be good.
Would be funny if Korra got hit with the beam and then instead got 20x bigger.
THIS ISNT EVEN MY FINAL FORM.
It's pretty depressing when the main character of the show is pointless enough that any other character would be more interesting. When Korra threatens Bataar the first time, "hahaha"? Seriously. I would take ANYONE at this point over Korra. Give me that kid in the wheel chair from TLA his life would be better guaranteed.
Icyflamez96
Member
Kuvira doesn't have much depth from what we've seen of her, but I still find her to be one of the more fun to watch villains in fictional content.
Well that's great.
That said, if you think she's super entertaining and fun, then I think that's great. And really elevates this season quite a bit (compared to those that haven't been a fan of the season, or don't find her at least entertaining).
Imagine if Unalaq had a cool design, and was actually fun to watch. Would have helped the Season quite a bit. Even if the earlier episodes were messy.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Yeah, even Bataar didn't even respect her, not to mention the Republic president who treats her like some inconvenience.
Hehe. My guess is that the beam will somehow restore her connection with all the previous avatars after she 'sacrifices' herself by placing herself in front of the beam and the city or some crap.
Admiral Woofington
Member
One is welcome to like w/e the fuck they want. But we live in a world where having an opinion without being able to back it up is meaningless. Nobody said we aren't fans because we are very critical of the show, if so we wouldn't be watching as we aren't reviewers who are paid to watch and review it. We are being critical because you're able to recognize faults in the show. Not many shows, even the best ones, are perfect and deserve criticism. The difference between a good and bad show though is that the good definitely outweighs the bad.
Saying shit like "you guys are just haters, you wouldnt be watching the show if it wasn't good"
or " the show is amazing, I really liked the episode you are just hating and being negative"
Isn't making you look well. It makes you look ignorant if you don't back it up. If the supposed 'haters' are bringing in arguments towards scenes, character development, pacing, writing, and other complaints and your only retort is that the show is good w/e it is frustrating. We genuinely want somebody to debate with, not everybody is so stubborn they can't change their minds on certain aspects.
Heck I mean look at you and I. We're pretty much polar opposite on the character of Bolin, yet I can still see many of the faults and wasted opportunities.
tl;dr if you have an opinion on a show then back it up, because saying you like/hate something and therefore it's good/bad isn't painting you in a pretty picture.
edit: that's part of the reason I'm so critical of people who like Kuvira and Asami as they are shown in the show. You can come up with all of these made-up reasons as to why they're great, but i have seen none.
JadedWriter
Member
Imagine if Asami and Varrick make Korra her own Korrazord, or if Asami, Mako, Bolin and Korrra get these robots that combine into some Voltron esque thing. This is a much funnier take on Voltron:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VGOQ9F88-g
Astral Dog
Member
Thats an overall problem with the series villains, i mean i think even Unalaq had potential (just not as much as Amon, with his ideologies, presence, voice and design) if he was written less shallow, more fleshed out or cut the crap and just be evil.
He could be something with his worship of the spirits and envy of the Avatar itself, maybe bring his connection with the Red Lotus instead of saying it after he is dead.
Then Kuvira is more or less the same, i think she had potential as a personal threat, but that was thrown out the window after a few episodes.
Zaheer and group were interesting to watch and had great battles, at least he had the scene with Korra on book 4. could have used more backstory., otherwise he is good.
Still,its good there is some variety,at least.
She has no motivation, no depth, no conviction. What do you find great about her? Curious.
If you think she has a cool design, and is fun to watch. I could see that. I personally find her boring. But I think her character is pretty damn shallow. And her goal/what she's working towards feel like just a one off personal vendetta.
She's not a bad villain in that she's been succesful, but she's not particularly fleshed out.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I've seen him post in other threads and always brings in an argument to his case, at the very least this could be the first time we get actual reasoning as to why she's a good villain.
So far I find her boring, yet effective in the sense of the very basics of villain-ing. She brought in a threat, grew her power, and his now a worldwide threat. From the basics she's fine, but as a character?
Kuvira definitely has motivation and conviction. That's literally her entire character. No depth though, so she becomes one note and stale. She has dimensions but they don't tie back into anything interesting. She's like an Azula caricature without the interesting character flaws and family drama.
Yeah but what is it? It's power and greed. Okay.
That's pretty simplistic and not all that interesting. So yeah maybe it's not right to say she has no motivation/conviction. Rather her motivation/conviction is pretty lackluster. But you are right, she's motivated to do what it takes to get power, so much so she'll do anything.
I always kind of imagined they would give us a backstory with her. Like she suffered under the rule of the old Kingdom/system. That she was embarrassed and abused. ANYTHING. Something. But instead we just get her straight up, just wanting power. That's really it.
And again, I think that can be fine if the character has a cool design and is fun to watch (some of you think she does, and that's great).
JadedWriter
Member
Yeah she's pretty one note. One note isn't bad if you write it with flair like Dio, if not, write them like an actual person please.
I just uploaded your album. I'll PM you now. Should lift your spirits.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I feel the show was trying to convince me that she wanted to unite the earth kingdom for some noble goal, and at the beginning. Jesus christ. What happened? You remember all the discussions we had over how they could have portrayed her movement? Something about keeping it morally grey where they are doing a lot of good with the possibility of characters like Bolin staying by her side?
I wasn't asking for Game of Thrones politics/alliances where there is no single right answer, I just wanted a morally grey character that didn't immediately make an imperialistic/dictatorship look evil.
Right now Kuvira is the Corypheus of the TV world. A villain that started out promising and ultimately became boring.
I wasn't asking for Game of Thrones politics/alliances where there is no single right answer, I just wanted a morally grey character that didn't immediately make an imperialistic/dictatorship look evil.
Right now Kuvira is the Corypheus of the TV world. A villain that started out promising and ultimately became boring.
I hope that wasn't a pun/ nothing can after the beating Kuvira just took here. =(((
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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
She got Anon'd.
JadedWriter
Member
I'm fine with one note determination. You just have to have that character do interesting things. As it is, not enough was done from Kuvira's perspective to really elevate her from merely functional, which would be fine if the protagonists filled in that space well.
But they don't, so
But they don't, so
Yeah but like, why for the final season? Did we really need a one note villain? Just seems really disappointing to me.
And like, some have made the argument that, you can't judge the season in the context of it being the last one. Which I think is fair. But even stepping away from it being the final episodes, I still kind of find the way they did Kuviras character...sort of strange.
I just think like, given that all the season's villains at least had a premise that felt more then one note (that had an impact on the world), it seems strange to me to have Kuvira be this one note villain that just wants power and to take over land.
I'm still hoping they find a way to tie this all into some bigger thing. I know, a lot of this season has tied into Korra's like, struggle for relevance. And her own past villains trying to take her identity and worth away. But I wonder how like, what Kuvira is doing (trying to push land invasion, and building an empire)...ties into all of this.
At least to me, this really just feels like a one person, personal vendetta.
Me thinking she;s not bad doesn't mean I think she's great either.
I find her compelling as an opposing force to the heroes. She works well as a villain and as a general contrast. Well enough to be quite entertaining, definitely.
I don't really feel as though them not getting into the nitty gritty of her background deflates what she's added thus far. If they never delve into a real contrast between worldviews come the climax, then I'd probably be more inclined to find disappointment, but all that means is that there is still story to tell as of now
Bryke's half ass writing never bothered me anyway.
Sie sind jetzt alle Ziele des Erdreiches.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I think it's pretty clear at this point that the writing staff doesn't know how to write an interesting villain. Azula is the outlier. Amon had the biggest opportunity to be among the greats and look at what happened.
It is just so strange they are playing it so safe with this season. Season 1 (aside from the end) was taking a lot of risks, and yet here we have a very by the books simple, generic season and villain.
JadedWriter
Member
I think they flip flopped on how the conceived and actually wrote her. Because as everybody has said she had potential, but they never really spent enough time with her to actually allow her to deliver on that promise. I'm at the point where I would've sacrificed a large chunk if not all of the airbender kid ep for a Kuvira back story ep, because that ep was nothing more than a retread of a message from season 2.
Bryke's half ass writing never bothered me anyway.
I will never unsee the clipping in this scene.
Thanks for replying. Was genuinely curious. To be fair, I don't think they need like entire episodes of her backstory. But I do think it could have helped her character substantially, if we knew what shaped her to be the psychopath she is today. Know what I mean?
Like, even if her motivation was always just pure power and greed (and there was nothing beyond it then that), I think background gives characters like this a bit more depth, and helps explain why a character wants power and greed.
The way we were presented Kuvira, it seemed like there was a legitimate political plot and reason behind her actions. And Kuvira herself seemed like an interesting character. But as the season jumped back and forth and moved on, Kuvira just descended into a total Psychopath who's sole reason is just to get as much power as possible.
Seeing as she once worked for Su, and was content with it, I don't get how she goes from being Content in Zao Fu...to wanting to be the dictator of the entire world. There is this big gap in the character for me, that never made sense. It always rubbed me the wrong way.
I feel like the writers implied earlier on (when Kuvira was working with Su), that Kuvira really believed in something higher. But it turned out she didn't. So I've just found this character to be continuously disappointing. But I can't argue against her being fun or compelling to watch. I don't feel that way, but if you do I totally understand. Thanks for replying. Was curious.
Zuko and Azula grew across multiple seasons. They were fundamentally tied to Aang, his journey, his friends and each other. Lot of drama, lot of agency, lot of interesting situations.
Amon had the swagger, but never fundamentally tied into Korra's journey like he should have. And then he is forgotten immediately after.
Oh well, 50 minutes of Legend of Korra left, y'all. I'm hoping for the best finale of the series.
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