Dictator93
Member
I find it interesting that in America, stores being closed on sundays is some how religiously connotated.- While in Europe (gemrany), it is a worker's rights issue.
Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.
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I find it interesting that in America, stores being closed on sundays is some how religiously connotated.- While in Europe (gemrany), it is a worker's rights issue.
Christian Fundamentalism used to be a million dollar affair. Now there are mega churches and billions of dollars going around. So they stopped trying to crush piles of CDs..temporarily. They successfully got the stickers placed on them though. They never took their eyes off of the prize though because they seem to have more power and money than ever before, even if gay marriage has passed. It's like, they make such a big issue over things, you start to believe they actually cared about it in the first place instead of it all having been an intelligent power play.
Christian Fundamentalism, to be more clear, would be the politically minded who use religion as a tool to help them deal with the public. So yes while we may have won a few battles for gay rights, we've lost the economic war to them for the next 20 years and we don't even know it yet.
Speaking of fundamentalism
Putin: Crimea is as sacred to Russia as Temple Mount for Judaism and Islam
Putin: Crimea is as sacred to Russia as Temple Mount for Judaism and Islam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55_wtYx55FM
Video of Ukrainian soldiers being shelled shelled mid-interview. No deaths.
Video of Ukrainian soldiers being shelled shelled mid-interview. No deaths.
Yeah, that was... random. And apparently baffled Russian historians
Russian 'Humanitarian Convoy' Heads for Separatist Moldovan Region
The convoys must, of course, pass through Ukraine first.
The convoys must, of course, pass through Ukraine first.
Resident_UA
Member
I hate to post a link to a Russian news agency, but that's the only English version of this article that I was able to find. So if anyone is wondering what Ukraine won with the Maidan happening the article below pretty much answers this question. Staying out of this joke Union is a pretty big victory. 
http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/765744
http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/765744
Another independent media channel in Russia is in trouble
Russian liberal TV channel forced to quit premises
Russian liberal TV channel forced to quit premises
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
To try to curb currency depreciation and inflation, Russia increased their interest rate from 10.5% to 17%, what the fuck.
Gilly
Member
Holy Shit how much longer can Russia handle these sanctions/falling oil prices
The measure failed utterly. The rouble is already down to yesterday's levels at 65-70 per dollar. And now they have a stifling interest rate to boot, even as they head for recession. Their economic situation is out if control.
http://m.bbc.com/news/business-30492518
Their only saving grace at this point are their reserves, but they'll burn through them in a year if the oil price doesn't rebound. After that, all that's left for them is tax hikes or spending cuts.
http://m.bbc.com/news/business-30491170
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
How much of their current economic woes are attributable to sanctions versus normal economic ups and downs?
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Oil prices too?
Most is oil, but the rouble fell faster than it should have due to oil alone, so there are indications that the sanctions are contributing to imposing a fenomally low faith in the currency. No one is buying roubles right now who aren't planning on selling them right away at the next minor spike. It will probably fall even more now that speculators know that the CBR doesn't have a grip on the situation.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
So what you're saying is it will soon be a good time to vacation in Russia on the cheap?
More qualified people would be able to offer an opinion, but right now it looks like a full on rout of the rouble. Raising your interest rates by 7% in the middle of the night in order to try and fix the currency exchange rates doesn't seem to have a huge rate of success from my understanding, and certainly when the UK tried it in the 90s it just confirmed the markets fears that things were out of control and the problem worsened.
Putin is a super politician. You see his recent trip to India? He brought the new leader of Crimea with him in an attempt to legitimize him. This will basically be his puppet in Crimea just like he has one in Chechnya. India didn't even know about it, until the end when he revealed he wasn't there for talks with Indian leaders, but some random Indian merchants interested in doing business in Crimea.
Also, it's pretty interesting to note the religious resurgence in Russia and how it's perceived in the US. For decades during the Cold War, the Soviets/Russians were looked at as godless communists who didn't have any humanity to them, God would punish them etc. Now they embrace their Russian orthodox religion more openly, whereas the west has become secular and you now have protests like Pussy Riot at their Church and people calling them fundamentalist religious nutjobs etc. Some Russian propaganda posters even show the US and EU as satanists.
This won't end well for Russia. Oil prices ridiculously low, the limited sanctions preventing them from exploring other opportunities, and their allies are not strong enough to help them. They can't get more indebted to the Chinese. Almost about to enter a deep recession soon if things don't change. This can lead to two things, growing resentment at Putin for basically reversing a decade of massive growth, or resentment towards the US and basically conspiring to destroy Russia, thereby increasing their devotion to Putin to save them.
Also, it's pretty interesting to note the religious resurgence in Russia and how it's perceived in the US. For decades during the Cold War, the Soviets/Russians were looked at as godless communists who didn't have any humanity to them, God would punish them etc. Now they embrace their Russian orthodox religion more openly, whereas the west has become secular and you now have protests like Pussy Riot at their Church and people calling them fundamentalist religious nutjobs etc. Some Russian propaganda posters even show the US and EU as satanists.
This won't end well for Russia. Oil prices ridiculously low, the limited sanctions preventing them from exploring other opportunities, and their allies are not strong enough to help them. They can't get more indebted to the Chinese. Almost about to enter a deep recession soon if things don't change. This can lead to two things, growing resentment at Putin for basically reversing a decade of massive growth, or resentment towards the US and basically conspiring to destroy Russia, thereby increasing their devotion to Putin to save them.
The sanctions have had a significant impact. Far more than the United states or Europe had even hoped. Without the oil crash it would have been a far more muted impact but the same can be said for the oil crash. The oil crash would have been nowhere as severe if they actually had access to the credit market.
EricTheCleric
Member
Gazprom firing 25% of its staff
Stock market index down 20%
Ruble is now at 80 to 1,
things are looking really grim
Stock market index down 20%
Ruble is now at 80 to 1,
things are looking really grim
So what you're saying is it will soon be a good time to vacation in Russia on the cheap?
I consulted the Magic 8-Ball and got the response "Yes, yes, no doubt about it, yes". I didn't even know it had that function. But seriously - yes.
They really are. Everyone is scared as fuck
According to the BBC, the internal Russian media is trying to ignore the situation for now.
http://m.bbc.com/news/business-30492518
RT, to my surprise, did not. The results have been... interesting. Their story already have over 1000 comments, with more posted faster than I can read them. It's way beyond their moderators and completely insane. Tons of schadenfreude from westerners interspersed with attempts to downplay the situation ("this is actually good for Russia - it will strengthen its export sector!") and the utterly mental, like one guy calling on Russia to nuke the West in return and another saying that "if jews continue attacking Russia, expect a real holocust pretty soon".
The last one got four upvotes by the way.
http://m.bbc.com/news/business-30492518
RT, to my surprise, did not. The results have been... interesting. Their story already have over 1000 comments, with more posted faster than I can read them. It's way beyond their moderators and completely insane. Tons of schadenfreude from westerners interspersed with attempts to downplay the situation ("this is actually good for Russia - it will strengthen its export sector!") and the utterly mental, like one guy calling on Russia to nuke the West in return and another saying that "if jews continue attacking Russia, expect a real holocust pretty soon
".The last one got four upvotes by the way.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
RT, to my surprise, did not. The results have been... interesting. Their story already have over 1000 comments, with more posted faster than I can read them. It's way beyond their moderators and completely insane. Tons of schadenfreude from westerners interspersed with attempts to downplay the situation ("this is actually good for Russia - it will strengthen its export sector!") and the utterly mental, like one guy calling on Russia to nuke the West in return and another saying that "if jews continue attacking Russia, expect a real holocust pretty soon
The last one got four upvotes by the way.
I know RT attracts the crazies, but fucking hell.
Entryhazard
Banned
As I expected it seems that most of the Russians are clinging to Putin blaming the West for their crisis
Not really, people actually started opening their eyes to the ugly truth.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I'd say it's the sanctions and the oil prices having a combined effect that's greater than the sum of its parts.
Phantast2k
Member
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/17/world/europe/obama-signing-russia-ukraine-sanctions-bill.html
^ yeah, sanctions, oil price, shitty economic environment as it was. Like a perfect storm.
^ yeah, sanctions, oil price, shitty economic environment as it was. Like a perfect storm.
Interesting story that I think is pretty fair in explaining the causes of some of the problems of today. It doesn't absolve Russia of what it is doing now just as Germany is not absolved of what it did during WWII due to what the winners of WWI did to Germany. It just does a good job of cause and effect and how actions you make in the past can cause bad shit to happen in the future. BBC Article: Viewpoint: Why the shadow of WW1 and 1989 hangs over world events
IMF, Ukraine fail to reach pact on next bailout tranche: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/12/19/uk-ukraine-imf-idUKKBN0JX1LK20141219
The EU believes that Ukraine will need $32 billion in funding in order to avoid a default.
S&P cuts Ukraine's investment rating to CCC-: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...s-p-as-bailout-delay-raises-default-risk.html
The EU believes that Ukraine will need $32 billion in funding in order to avoid a default.
S&P cuts Ukraine's investment rating to CCC-: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...s-p-as-bailout-delay-raises-default-risk.html
Good article. Thanks.
Agreed, thanks for posting.
Yes, good article.
I remember my father telling me of the West's betrayal of Russia after the collapse of the USSR and how the Russians were expecting their own Marshall Plan to rebuild and re-integrate Russia into the European economy. It never came and, well, as Sachs writes: the rest is history.
EricTheCleric
Member
Moscow Times has been taken down by a team of hackers (they claim) that seems to hate Russia, they are using the hastag #fuckrussia.
I guess this is an example that just about any ignorant idiot can be a scriptkiddie
I guess this is an example that just about any ignorant idiot can be a scriptkiddie
Possibly the so called "volunteer battalions" shown in this German state television news report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf0vbGj9cO4
Ukraine doesn't pay pensions to those old people since this month. It's quite obvious what they are trying to do.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/26/ukraine-banks-suspend-services-pro-russia-donetsk
Electricity to Crimea was "just" cut for a short time and has since been restored but still shitty from a humanitarian perspective, yeah.
I think the goal of Ukraine's leadership, ultimately, is to cut off the east more or less completely, which would likely lead to Russia supporting the east in a bigger official capacity, in terms of aid, financial support and so on. Such a move by Russia would inevitably lead to further international pressure on Russia, something the Ukrainian leadership would certainly welcome.
We'll see where it all goes. Personally, I expect Russia to annex the Donbass region sooner or later as Putin has fallen victim to his own propaganda and can't just back out of Ukraine without any kind of political "win". For Ukraine, they'd "get rid" of a region that's worth nothing economically and they could also move forward with their plan to join NATO.
pants
Member
Because the civilians that lives there and I suppose paid taxes are not an acceptable target in a war/skirmish?
Indeed they are not, however there is something to be said for both sides. Yours is one side, the other is that as the invader, the Russian federation should bear responsibility for the people of the Donbass.
Now that the ceasefire seems to be holding, many of Ukraine's volunteer neo-Nazi battalions are returning from 'the frontlines' to spread their terror on the civilians of Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_P8H5nq60E
pants
Member
We cant place this burden on civilians, they should be afforded all the services and pensions/grants owed to them as legal Ukrainian tax paying citizens. The fact that they are occupied by an invading force/populist movement/however you want to see this conflict is not of their making nor should they be made accountable for it.
Phantast2k
Member
The title of the story appears to be unnecessarily alarming when the essence is:
The reason for that appears to be the fact that volunteer battalions found cigarettes and alcohol in these humanitarian convoys on two occasions:
http://maidantranslations.com/2014/...l-help-donbas-but-we-wont-sponsor-terrorists/
Akhmetov has been suspected of having connections to the new DNR leadership and funding at least one of DNR's battalions. Also red cross convoys seem to arrive just fine.
However this part seems legit bad, even though based on just one witness account:
Of course all of it plays into the Russian narrative that Ukraine and the West are trying to exterminate Donbass population to extract shale oil & gas.
Why are both of you pushing this narrative? Azov is not mentioned in the Amnesty report and where does the notion come from that Aidar are nazis?
There is apparently just one battalion which is connected to nazi ideology: Azov. There are around 50k soldiers & volunteers deployed by Ukraine (according to wiki). Let's assume Avoz is 500 men strong. That's 1% being nazis (let's assume they're all nazis in that battalion) in Ukrainian forces. Surely this is pretty much in line with Western OR Russian armed forces?
There are quite a lot of (religious) fascists or straight up nazis among the Russians in donbass, yet weirdly enough it's all about Ukrainian nazis with you lot.
The founder of the fucking Novorossia is a Russian neo-nazi for fuck's sake:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Gubarev
Why do you think he chose a modified confederate flag as a flag for Novorossia?
But I'm sure this will be ignored and not commented on like the last few times this was discussed.
From what I understand the people can still come out of DNR & LNR territory into Ukraine held territory to get their pensions and other gov. services.
And funny how you called them "tax paying citizens". I am not aware of any tax agreements between those bullshit republics and Ukraine.
If anyone could be singled out as a culprit here is Russia. They started this shit and now don't have the balls to go all the way like in Crimea. They along with their bullshit republics are holding these people hostage.
pants
Member
It's not okay to force people to travel outside of their areas to collect what is owed them. And yes they are tax paying citizens? Not that the tax paying is critical at this stage, since if they are prevented from paying tax it's not their fault, but they are citizens.
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