Are Japanese-made console games DEAD without Nintendo/Sony/MS financing them?

A

a Master Ninja

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Sony's money is the reason games like Street Fighter V and Bloodbourne are being made. Microsoft's money is the reason Scalebound and D4 exist. Nintendo keeps paying for games from Koei Tecmo and Platinum. Heck, Nintendo almost comes off like a guardian angel of the Japanese console games, what with them going out of their way to rescue troubled projects like Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third.

Obviously rising development costs hurt or sunk a lot of developers last generation, but things seem particularly dire in Japan. The absolute biggest Japanese third party franchises on consoles even seem to be on thin ice. Final Fantasy XV will apparently make or break AAA development for the company going forward. Metal Gear Solid 5 has essentially a paid demo to recoup development costs along with being cross-gen. Resident Evil is not only getting the usual HD Remasters but the new game is staying cross-gen and going episodic.

I understand that the Japanese market stopped caring about consoles, but why did the (still large) Western console market stop buying Japanese-made games? Are Nintendo/Sony/MS just delaying the inevitable for a few years? Will Japanese support for consoles/PC become little more than ports of low budget/F2P mobile games? Has there been a major shift to Japanese indie/smaller budget PC/console releases that I'm just not aware of? Is there any hope for a resurgence of Japanese console games?
 
I would say not entirely (something like Resident Evil would exist anyway barring huge declines as it appeals primarily to the West and has a large sales volume), but I do think there would be notably less of them.

Japan hasn't really picked up digital distribution outside of phones (as in the local market) - though there are some exceptions - so the easiest way of bypassing the issue of not being able to compete at the $40-$50+ million budget level is not easy for them to work.

a Master Ninja said:
Will Japanese support for consoles/PC become little more than ports of low budget/F2P mobile games?
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I would like to note these aren't always low budget though.

Monster Strike has a team of over 100.

a Master Ninja said:
I understand that the Japanese market stopped caring about consoles, but why did the (still large) Western console market stop buying Japanese-made games?
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Polarization made it such that the biggest games got tons of sales, and those that couldn't offer comparable content at the same price point saw huge drops in sales down to only people notably interested in them instead of more casual buyers as well.

Japanese publishers tend to have less money than Western publishers so there is a hesitation barrier before pouring $50+ million into a product. We saw Western publishers who couldn't keep up go out of business last generation.

a Master Ninja said:
Is there any hope for a resurgence of Japanese console games?
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It depends how you would categorize games that are like both on a smartphone and a console or things like cross-platform Vita/PS3/PS4 games, since those do exist.

If you don't consider something like God Eater 2: Burst to be a "console game" though, then I don't think there's much chances of things going up notably from here.
 
It appears that most of the genres that come out of Japan have fallen to super niche status in the last 10 years, and that includes franchises that were really big even in the PS2 and early PS360 days (there are exceptions to this of course - MGS, Resident Evil, etc)

It means that you are probably going to see platform holders invest to lure that audience into the ecosystem, but the games are going to have to retrench like the schmup genre did and learn to budget within the constraints of their sales potential. Trying to throw AAA budget money at these genre games is probably over unless a platform holder (or bad investor) wants to pay the bill.
 
I don't think that's the reason at all. I think it's mainly because they (or shareholders... whoever has more of a voice in these companies) are so out of touch with their audience.

Edit: Look at Valkyria Chronicles releasing on PC. That game did extremely well... look at all the dislikes and negative reactions from the FF7 PC port on PS4. These are just a couple of examples.
 
Not, entirely but for the most part -outside of very strong franchises such as RE, MGS- yes.

DJIzana said:
Edit: Look at Valkyria Chronicles releasing on PC. That game did extremely well...
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What does the port of half a decade old game have to do with new games being produced ?
 
The problem is they don't have the huge international marketing boost of big companies like Activision, EA or Ubisoft.
 
It's not just Japan. The high cost of game development has changed and closed big western studios too. Where Japan went dependent/mobile/handheld/smaller, western games have gone DLC/monetization/yearly/conglomeration.

A change will come for both while the industry figures everything out. We'll see all companies explore options over the years and Japan will find its place again.
 
Japan can't afford to advertise like the west can, or establish IPs by advertising, so... yes.
 
llehuty said:
The problem is they don't have the huge international marketing boost of big companies like Activision, EA or Ubisoft.
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You really think that's the issue though?

People blame MS for sending D4 to die, but I think it sold about what it was ever going to sell and they knew that.

Would any amount of money make Bayonetta 2 compete with Destiny, Halo or CoD in the West?

I love these games, but they feel like a niche genre to me.
 
llehuty said:
The problem is they don't have the huge international marketing boost of big companies like Activision, EA or Ubisoft.
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I think one thing left out here is actually that these are also international companies.

Publishers who have tons of developers in both North America and Europe are more likely to have large appeal in both markets as their cultural values are an amalgamation of them.

A studio consisting of only Japanese developers is more likely to make creative choices that will clash heavily with audiences elsewhere. It's not an inevitability, but the likelihood is much higher.
 
Not EVERY Japanese made game.....as next year proves games can still be made...and i'm sure Vita to ps4 up-ports like god eater 2, which actually look pretty decent don't cost that much, but you definitely won't be finding anywhere near the same amount that was around even in the first half of 7th gen, let alone 6th gen.

All those devs moved over to handheld, mobile or left the industry alltogether
 
Nirolak said:
I think one thing left out here is actually that these are also international companies.

Publishers who have tons of developers in both North America and Europe are more likely to have large appeal in both markets as their cultural values are an amalgamation of them.

A studio consisting of only Japanese developers is more likely to make creative choices that will clash heavily with audiences elsewhere. It's not an inevitability, but the likelihood is much higher.
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And North America does not have a vast cultural chasm with Europe in the first place.
 
StoOgE said:
You really think that's the issue though?

People blame MS for sending D4 to die, but I think it sold about what it was ever going to sell and they knew that.

Would any amount of money make Bayonetta 2 compete with Destiny, Halo or CoD in the West?

I love these games, but they feel like a niche genre to me.
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What separates Bayonetta from Devil May Cry, which sells relatively well?
 
To be honest I'm pretty surprised that Sony hasn't just bought Capcom at this point. With Nintendo out of the third party game, IPs like Resident Evil, Street Fighter, et al. have a long history on PlayStation consoles and would considerably boost their "IP mascot" stable.
 
I have never understood the Japanese market. Why play games on an underpowered little handheld why you have an hdtv and high powered console? I suspect it has something to do with small living spaces.
 
^ They go from place to place by train and other forms of transport, more than staying home. So just by nature of not being home, they have come to prefer handheld for games. Thrown in the basic mobile craze that happens everywhere in the world just cause everyone has a phone, then its amplified

Renzoku said:
To be honest I'm pretty surprised that Sony hasn't just bought Capcom at this point. With Nintendo out of the third party game, IPs like Resident Evil, Street Fighter, et al. have a long history on PlayStation consoles and would considerably boost their "IP mascot" stable.
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What you do think this is, the 90s!? xD

A 300 mill Gaikai acquisition is a big investment for Sony. While MS burns 400 million on some nothing NFL deal, billions on Mojang..and god knows what else
 
Boy... this topic is really depressing.

I'd like to think this is just a transition period to the new generation and we'll start seeing more stuff soon from Japanese developers. Was there a similar dry spell at the start of last generation on consoles? I can't seem to remember.
 
speculawyer said:
I have never understood the Japanese market. Why play games on an underpowered little handheld why you have an hdtv and high powered console? I suspect it has something to do with small living spaces.
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I really liked having two gens of games to play. For a while during the GCN/PS2/XBOX era, handhelds carried the 2D gaming torch until Indies picked it up.
 
Peltz said:
Boy... this topic is really depressing.

I'd like to think this is just a transition period to the new generation and we'll start seeing more stuff soon from Japanese developers. Was there a similar dry spell at the start of last generation on consoles? I can't seem to remember.
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There's always a dry spell at the beginning while devs get used to new hardware. But this is different...many devs don't have any incentive to invest in console development anymore, and seeing as how AA development budgets are dead, there's really no way to say 'make a smaller scale game'. Why Sakaguchi has no intention of every coming back is the same story for many veteran former console devs
 
I wish MS would fund another Lost Odyssey. I loved that game but, since MS doesn't seem to care about competing in Japan this gen like last time they won't.
 
DigitalDevilSummoner said:
What does the port of half a decade old game have to do with new games being produced ?
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That they shouldnt treat Steam/digital Distribution on PC as a red-headed stepchild. There is serious money to be made with Japanese style games on Steam. Most japanese developers (or their translation department) had a success Story with their Steam release. Even Idea Factory who is despised in some circles had great success with Agarest on Steam.

But you still have some developers who avoid steam to push their own digital storefront (like 5pb with Steins:Gate) where they can sell 5 copys.
 
Renzoku said:
To be honest I'm pretty surprised that Sony hasn't just bought Capcom at this point. With Nintendo out of the third party game, IPs like Resident Evil, Street Fighter, et al. have a long history on PlayStation consoles and would considerably boost their "IP mascot" stable.
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Capcom is quite strong third-party developer for Nintendo handhelds - look at Phoenix Wright and the latest installments of Monster Hunter. One can even remember RE: Revelations initially being Nintendo 3DS exclusive.
 
I do not think so, but definitely Japan made games do not sell like they used to.
Gaming in the west is really mostly defined by the west and the top 3 publishers are 2 USA and 1 France.

The only successful eastern developer I would say has been Level 5 for the most part. I think YW is going to be pretty big when it hits the west.

speculawyer said:
I have never understood the Japanese market. Why play games on an underpowered little handheld why you have an hdtv and high powered console? I suspect it has something to do with small living spaces.
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Small living spaces + Long periods of time traveling between places + Not being home that often = Portable gaming is king.
When I was in the UK I could see why the 3DS/Mobile is doing well over there. No air conditioning meant I did not want to stay inside. The weather outside was very nice and it was pleasant being outside. The trains took a bit to get places, so you could boot up your system.
The TL;DR version is that you have to live in the culture a bit to understand it.
 
Capcom needing Sony to make SF5 happen is definitely pretty alarming. They are being super safe now. I wouldn't be surprised if the DmC & DMC4 re-releases on PS4/XONE are a "Darkstalkers Resurrection" style barometer to see if they should continue with the series.
 
Are Japanese-made console games DEAD without Nintendo/Sony/MS financing them?
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TheSlySoul said:
I do not think so, but definitely Japan made games do not sell like they used to.
Gaming in the west is really mostly defined by the west and the top 3 publishers are 2 USA and 1 France.

The only successful eastern developer I would say has been Level 5 for the most part. I think YW is going to be pretty big when it hits the west.
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I was going to say "Capcom" but I remembered they are in decline nowadays, and Square Enix's reputation is not in its best... at least Nintendo is doing somewhat strong.
 
DownGrader said:
I was going to say "Capcom" but I remembered they are in decline nowadays, and Square Enix's reputation is not in its best... at least Nintendo is doing somewhat strong.
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Yeah, but the topic said no Nintendo. Capcom is strapped for cash despite the success of RE6 (too big of budget I guess) and Konami is no where to be seen.
 
Would Bloodborne really not find any financing? I mean why would Namco Bandai say no after the success the Souls series had?
 
Kinyou said:
Would Bloodborne really not find any financing? I mean why would Namco Bandai say no after the success the Souls series had?
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According to what I found online, Namco only published Dark Souls II worldwide. It seems From Software actually published it in Japan.
My guess is that they could not afford to publish it so Sony decided to fund it for all regions.
 
Japan just needs a couple of big hits to get them back on the map again. They need to stop trying to Westernise their games though, last generation was ridiculous and full of over-compensation. There's a reason why Japanese games were so popular during the PS2 and previous generations.
 
TheSlySoul said:
Yeah, but the topic said no Nintendo. Capcom is strapped for cash despite the success of RE6 (too big of budget I guess) and Konami is no where to be seen.
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Oops, now I realised that Nintendo is in a very interesting developer/publisher/console manufacturer position which is clearly off-topic here. What about Konami... yes; the same for Namco Bandai and Koei Tecmo (the latter basically went in a very niche market), aside from occasional successes like Dark Souls and Hyrule Warriors. This topic is surely depressing...
 
Kinyou said:
Would Bloodborne really not find any financing? I mean why would Namco Bandai say no after the success the Souls series had?
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New IP pretty much. I think Sony went to From Software anyway, though. I feel Street Fighter V is a bad example for this thread, btw. Everyone knows it would have been made eventually even without Sony.
 
If we're saying PS4/Vita games don't count, NIS, Namco, Atlus, Compile Heart, Sega don't count, then yeah sure. But that would be super stupid and absurd. Are Japanese console AAA blockbuster independently developed new IPs "dead"? Probably, yeah. But there's still many devs making console games in Japan, in fact they're some of my most anticipated PS4 games (Disgaea 5!).

And honestly the problems with Capcom, Konami and Squeenix all seem related to the companies. Capcom is insanely risk adverse and makes bad decisions, Square seems to have management problems and is terrible at managing it's best IPs, Konami...I don't what what the fuck they're doing but it's not "developing games without Metal Gear in the title", that's for sure.

Subaru said:
I guess it would be easy to find financing, but would Bandai Namco develop it alone?
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They did for Dark Souls 2, right? A "Dark Souls 3" probably wouldn't have been as high budget and thus maybe not as good as Bloodborne, but I find it hard to believe they'd say no.
 
Team Vernia said:
New IP pretty much. I think Sony went to From Software anyway, though. I feel Street Fighter V is a bad example for this thread, btw. Everyone knows it would have been made eventually even without Sony.
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Namco would have published it I bet if Capcom did not want to finance it.
Surprisingly Namco can afford to publish games since they have great success in Japan. Also SSB is going to rake in much money for them.
pixlexic said:
They are all migrating to pc and mobile it seems.
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Monster Strike is raking in the money hard. Yoshiki must be very happy.
 
Team Vernia said:
New IP pretty much. I think Sony went to From Software anyway, though. I feel Street Fighter V is a bad example for this thread, btw. Everyone knows it would have been made eventually even without Sony.
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Not in the same form. Let's not bring this false equivalency up again
 
I have little doubt that games like Street Fighter V and Tomb Raider 2 would've have been made anyway without these deals. It's just a lot lower risk for them to get $$$ from someone now rather than hope the game sells well enough to justify the cost.
 
speculawyer said:
I have never understood the Japanese market. Why play games on an underpowered little handheld why you have an hdtv and high powered console? I suspect it has something to do with small living spaces.
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In big cities in Japan you don't use your own car to go to different places. It's more convenient to use trains and because of that you can play on handhelds while you wait to arrive to your station, in some big stations there's free wifi so you can see kids and adults there playing online games inside the station, I believe that's the reason why games like monster hunter and phantasy star online are a big thing. I lived in Tokyo for a couple of years, you'd be surprised how many people you can find playing during rush hours. I too did that eventually.
 
I see that post about nintendo paying tecmo-koei for games, uh they make games without nintendo or anyone's money, they've had no problem making the Musou(warriors) series at all. Heck they'll get more money with Dragon quest heroes next year, If anything they dont need the money and they are releasing PC products nowadays so thats a good sign that they've expanded their market.
 
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