Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows

Status
Not open for further replies.
I genuinely don't want to get back into it I've debated my side time and time again and I don't have the energy. I was debated out with today's Sony/NK shit. But I can assure you that fucking around with fans with wink wink nudge nudge lines is not the right way.

I'm not about to debate you, brother Woof. Just reading where you stand on the implementation of a girl-girl relationship in a television show.

Fleshing the relationship out. You know actually building it up and making it feel organic. Basically doing a good job as opposed to waiting for the last second to do it because they didn't want to take the risk and do it right earlier on.

That's easier said than done, you know. Straight relationships get away with holding on to the moment until the very end because a male and female lead are nearly always implied to be interested in one another. It's the default setting.

Now I won't say the romance is well done if indeed Korra ended up with Asami. I don't think it has to be perfect to fly. I don't think it would be a negative if it did go through. (pending something hilariously stupid occurring over the final 50 minutes).

No one here is against it for that reason. At least not here. Some just want it written in a way that makes sense and that is written well. This doesn't just apply to a girl-girl romance. I would say this for anyone. That's why I said IMO korra should end up single since there was no ro,ance plot in Book 3-4 and Korra was not interested in romance.

I can dig it.
 
I'm not about to debate you, brother Woof. Just reading where you stand on the implementation of a girl-girl relationship in a television show.

No one here is against it for that reason. At least not here. Some just want it written in a way that makes sense and that is written well. This doesn't just apply to a girl-girl romance. I would say this for anyone. That's why I said IMO korra should end up single since there was no romance plot in Book 3-4 and Korra was not interested in romance.

The way it should be written is the same way any romance should be written.
 
I'm not about to debate you, brother Woof. Just reading where you stand on the implementation of a girl-girl relationship in a television show.



That's easier said than done, you know. Straight relationships get away with holding on to the moment until the very end because a male and female lead are nearly always implied to be interested in one another. It's the default setting.

Now I won't say the romance is well done if indeed Korra ended up with Asami. I don't think it has to be perfect to fly. I don't think it would be a negative if it did go through. (pending something hilariously stupid occurring over the final 50 minutes).



I can dig it.

You are asking what the right way to write one is, and then are saying that because of the stigma, they don't need to write it well. Okay. You have valid points about it being hard to write for, so I can understand. But you are seriously going to tell me, Bryke wanted this relationship from the get go?

I'm not seeing it. So...

Yeah. Seems to me if Asami and Korra is something they do, it's something that was decided in the back half of writing the show. And while they had stigma and pressure to go up against, they still could have done more then this (at the very least, in Book 4).

Korra has had no romance plot for 2 books. So at least to me, it makes more sense to just not have her be in a romance. But if you want to argue that the romance should just happen because it would be positive, then okay. I still think it would be shit writing. But if it's something Bryke really wanted, and had to do it this way because of these limitations, I certainly couldn't fault them.
 
You are asking what the right way to write one is, and then are saying that because of the stigma, they don't need to write it well. Okay. You have valid points about it being hard to write for, so I can understand. But you are seriously going to tell me, Bryke wanted this relationship from the get go?

I'm not seeing it. So...

Yeah.

I'm not saying anything other than I personally wouldn't mind if it went down that way. I'm not going to throw my hands up in the air like "these motherfuckas" if it happened, or didn't happen. It would be an interesting development to me.

I can see why you want it to be well written; we all want that.
 
I'm not saying anything other than I personally wouldn't mind if it went through that way. I'm not going to throw my hands up in the air like "these motherfuckas". It would be an interesting development to me.

I guess I wouldn't mind it either? I dunno. Well the writer in me, doesn't think it would feel organic or be done well. But then the progressive side of me, is okay with it. Given the positive benefits. I dunno.

I still think Korra being single is also positive. How often are female characters the main protagonist in their own story? Let alone animation? And how often are female characters forced into romance? I don't just mean in terms of gender, but just in general. If the character isn't into romance (or isn't interested in it), then maybe they shouldn't be in a romance.

I guess I can see where you are coming from. I dunno. LOL just going to wait until the finale and then see what happens. Maybe I'll change my mind depending on how its done.
 
Might as well have Korrasami becaue Korra and Asami are the only people in the entire show who can hold a normal, friendly conversation anymore.
 
Like, I'm not sure what all everyone is expecting for a Korrasami reveal. So I think we should wait for the finale even to see if it happens at all and how it is portrayed.

Korrasami would be immensely worse than Makorra. Women should be able to be portrayed as friends without suggestions or implications that they are secretly attracted to each other. Inserting a sexual undercurrent into completely platonic interactions seems almost voyeuristic in a way. And it would treat an incredibly significant and intrinsic part of one's personal identity as a flippant lifestyle choice, oh it's time for the finale, guess Korra is into women now. I get that people are not earnestly suggesting it would be a good idea, but sometimes the line gets blurry.

Not sure where this is coming from.

(Speaking from an American perspective) our culture is more likely to see gay implications in regards to male platonic relationships than female ones. Women can be a whole lot more affectionate with their female friends without having to worry about people making judgements about their sexuality. For male platonic relationships, it seems that "no homo" and "bromance" get tossed around often in order to ensure people don't mistakenly assume that they're gay for each other.

Some of the media I follow features lesbian relationships, yet people seem to completely ignore them or even dismiss it as a "friendship" while simultaneously insisting that there is a gay relationship between two male characters that spent maybe two scenes together total.
 
Might as well have Korrasami becaue Korra and Asami are the only people in the entire show who can hold a normal, friendly conversation anymore.

Bolin and Varric can have normal conversations with anyone, as normal a conversation you can have with them anyway.
 
Alright everyone get your predictions in.

I'll say Korra reconnects with her past lives because I made that bet.

Korra won't die.

In fact, I don't think any of the main cast will die. If they do it will be Lin or someone like that. Secondary or tertiary character.

Vaatu comes out of the vines? I dunno. They've been showing the vines too much. It's a chekovs gun.
 
I admit I could be on the wrong side of this. I understand the discrepancy between the status quo where poorly written straight relationships get little flak preventing its creation but gay relationships get thrown through the wringer trying to reach an impossible standard to merit inclusion. And I do think having positive depictions which aren't perfectly written is better than having no depictions at all.

But at the same time I don't agree that depictions are positive just because they exist. I'm not saying Korrasami is some super negative stereotype, I just don't think you get a lot of net positives for something that exists only in a couple minutes of a fourth season finale. It's one thing to be poorly written and it's another not be written much at all. Their sexual identity and relationship should be ongoing and recurring to actually have a lasting impact; parting words offered as one leaves the room provides very little in my opinion. But hey, maybe parting words are all we can manage right now.

Not sure where this is coming from.

(Speaking from an American perspective) our culture is more likely to see gay implications in regards to male platonic relationships than female ones. Women can be a whole lot more affectionate with their female friends without having to worry about people making judgements about their sexuality. For male platonic relationships, it seems that "no homo" and "bromance" get tossed around often in order to ensure people don't mistakenly assume that they're gay for each other.

Some of the media I follow features lesbian relationships, yet people seem to completely ignore them or even dismiss it as a "friendship" while simultaneously insisting that there is a gay relationship between two male characters that spent maybe two scenes together total.

The vast majority of 'no homo' utterances are not done because the person honestly believes someone will mistake them for a gay man and they wish to preemptively correct the suggestion. It's primarily used as joke/insult to shame certain behaviors and actions as non masculine and gay, thus perpetuating notions that gay men are not really male or masculine. It's used to enforce traditional norms regarding the male gender, masculinity, and sexuality, not as a form of sexual identification. Female friendships don't have this problem because they don't suffer from the same toxic definitions and standards that make intimacy so incompatible with masculinity, which in turn is seen as being incompatible with homosexuality. (see The Mask You live In for a more expansive look at this).

I'd also add that when unnecessary sexualization of female interaction occurs it is coming primarily from straight men for obvious reasons. It's also one of the common complaints regarding cultural notions of lesbian identity, in that it's straight males who are trying to set the rules and definitions by which lesbians operate and are identified by. And in that sense, I'm in absolutely no position to be offering an opinion about whether Korrasami is a 'proper' expression of a lesbian relationship or not in the first place.
 
I predict Kuvira loses.

I predict we'll get a confirmed ship.

I predict it will be a very flashy episode, and it won't be dreadful, but will leave people feeling, "huh, guess that was that."
 
I predict it will be a very flashy episode, and it won't be dreadful, but will leave people feeling, "huh, guess that was that."

Yeah.

To me this show is firmly in the "good but not great" category. I'm expecting to be entertained at least which is more than I can say about most of the stuff on Crunchyroll these days.m.
 
I'll jump on the Kuvira dies train, sorry Toa. But I don't think it'll be Korra who kills her though as she's rarely ever given the last blow to the villains in this show.
I'm guessing Kuvira will cause it herself or someone from the Beifong family maybe I dunno.
 
Interesting speculation from this reddit post... I think.

If my continuing comparison to Napoleon is correct then she'll be imprisoned off the coast of the united republic on a wooden barge to suppress her bending and will react to defeat by barely letting it phase her, thinking her supporters will eventually come for her and allow her to return to the Earth Kingdom/Empire. Maybe in following comics they actually do rescue her off the barge and she comes back to power only to be defeated again and imprisoned within the Fire Nation past the gates of Azulon.

Napoleon was pretty psychotic by today's standards. He took stress and problems very well because of it, making his strategic brilliance even better. Kuvira seems to have this same skill. I doubt she would have the same breakdown Azula had. Azula nutted the fuck out because she was slowly going insane due to the betrayal of everyone she thought she could trust. Kuvira won't change her demeanor in incarceration.
 
tumblr_ngqwdvxGSV1s0t533o2_r1_500.jpg


Why she look like a frozen character
 
Hey, if you're gonna jump the shark, might as well do it in your last episode!

incoming discussion about how the show's already jumped the shark multiple times
Kaiju Korra was jumping the shark, Kuvira's mech was the show back flipping over the shark. They'll be doing some Tony Hawk 1080 shit over the shark with the finale.
 
The vast majority of 'no homo' utterances are not done because the person honestly believes someone will mistake them for a gay man and they wish to preemptively correct the suggestion. It's primarily used as joke/insult to shame certain behaviors and actions as non masculine and gay, thus perpetuating notions that gay men are not really male or masculine. It's used to enforce traditional norms regarding the male gender, masculinity, and sexuality, not as a form of sexual identification. Female friendships don't have this problem because they don't suffer from the same toxic definitions and standards that make intimacy so incompatible with masculinity, which in turn is seen as being incompatible with homosexuality. (see The Mask You live In for a more expansive look at this).

I'd also add that when unnecessary sexualization of female interaction occurs it is coming primarily from straight men for obvious reasons. It's also one of the common complaints regarding cultural notions of lesbian identity, in that it's straight males who are trying to set the rules and definitions by which lesbians operate and are identified by. And in that sense, I'm in absolutely no position to be offering an opinion about whether Korrasami is a 'proper' expression of a lesbian relationship or not in the first place.

(I've heard/seen the phrase used to dismiss notions of being gay plus also as an insult but toxic masculinity is a different discussion.)

Like, there's a difference between viewing Korra and Asami's relationship as romantic vs. sexualizing their relationship.
 
Kaiju Korra was jumping the shark, Kuvira's mech was the show back flipping over the shark. They'll be doing some Tony Hawk 1080 shit over the shark with the finale.

720 Twisty McFlip + Grind + Grind + Grind + Manual + Kickflip + Grind + Kickflip + Handstand + Manual + 360 Air Jesus
 
Korra and Asami are nice to each other and are friends so everyone jumps to shipping them.

It's a gross thing that this is the first thing that comes to many people's (read: dudes) minds. It's as if women can't be friends and either they are being fake or they must be lesbians.


It's part of the reason why I hate shipping and most fandoms overall.
 
I like how apparently Korrasami can't be a thing because being a lesbian/bisexual must be PART of their characters instead of something that's just there and they slowly realized over the 3 years they spent only talking to each other.
 
Korra and Asami are nice to each other and are friends so everyone jumps to shipping them.

It's a gross thing that this is the first thing that comes to many people's (read: dudes) minds. It's as if women can't be friends and either they are being fake or they must be lesbians.

It's part of the reason why I hate shipping overall.

This is kind of a rude assumption to make.

Two friends becoming lovers is an appealing idea to a lot of people. This isn't something exclusive to either homosexual or heterosexual relationships.
 
Korra and Asami are nice to each other and are friends so everyone jumps to shipping them.

It's a gross thing that this is the first thing that comes to many people's (read: dudes) minds. It's as if women can't be friends and either they are being fake or they must be lesbians.


It's part of the reason why I hate shipping and most fandoms overall.

I just don't think the plot is there, to establish a more than friends relationship. What it has shown, is that Korra and Asami have become close friends, to the point that she confides in Asami. But really close friends do that too. I think at this point in the story, Korra has no foundation for any relationship of that level, and her being single would make the most sense (from a technical writing perspective). Her and Mako getting together would be the most insulting (although at least there, you could argue they have a pre-established romance plot, meaning they have shown to have those feelings).

So I feel like people are really wishing for something that isn't there. And I understand why. I mean, some people are just "shippers" who love fantasizing about their favorite pairings. But there are some folks, that genuinely want it to happen, because gay couples in TV (and especially childrens shows) is very is non-existent. So having a show like Korra have the main protagonist be gay, would be a pretty big thing in TV history. And, there are some people that just genuinely think they would make a good couple (I think they would, if the writers had actually written it that way).

From that perspective, I can understand it. But I still think the story needs to support it. If this kind of relationship was going to happen, I would want it to be done right (like actual good writing, or something that felt real or organic).

I guess the argument against this (which is what Trey was arguing), is that the stigma and pushback right now, would make it impossible to have a gay relationship in a kids show be fleshed out and properly built up. That it would have to dance around the issue, and then be done in the last episode (since the show is over and doesn't have to worry about being canceled).

I feel torn on it.

If Bryke 100% wanted Korra and Asami to be lovers, but knew they couldn't. So instead of fleshing it out and building it up, they danced around it by instead establishing a close friendship plot, and then decided to drop it in the last 20 min of the series. I could understand that. I mean, especially if they wanted it, but couldn't. Like they decided around Book 2 they were going to do it, but couldn't because of the push back.

I guess my issue more then anything, is that I look back at the overall context of this series. And I find the whole Korra x Asami relationship kind of ridiculous (even on a friends level). So them going to romantic lovers, would just feel really really contrived to me. But again, yeah given the historical importance of that happening, the benefits that could come from it happening, the fact that Bryke have been pretty shit writers in general anyways (taking shortcuts, having contrived plot points)...would it really be that bad? Like out of all the shit they've done, could we not let this pass?

So personally, I would rather Korra ends up single. If they do pull a Korra x Asami thing, okay. I'll still think it was not supported. But I'll be okay with it because of the importance of it. That and, I actually like Korrasami and have supported it all the way back in Book 2. So bad writing aside, I would be down.

ANYTHING is better than Korra x Mako at this point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom