The Hobbit trilogy - News, rumours and discussion

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L

Loxley

Member
hunnies28 said:
No chance for a Children of Hurin adaptation?
Click to expand...

Since it was published as it's own story outside of The Silmarillion - it's possible that the Tolkien Estate could license out the film rights to Children as a standalone IP. But they're pretty much against Hollywood touching any more of Tolkien's works, so I wouldn't count on it happening within our lifetime unless they have a significant change of heart.
 
K

Kyleripman

Member
hunnies28 said:
No chance for a Children of Hurin adaptation?
Click to expand...

IMO this is probably the Tolkien story that would work best if they really had to adapt another one to film.

However, in a way it's nice that there are these types of substantial stories that only exist in the books, and it might be best kept that way, even if PJ and crew ever somehow got the rights to them.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
There's actually a couple of stories from the appendices that you could make into a good movie or two. One of them could be the Dwarf/Goblin war, or another on all the stuff that happened during the TT/RotK in other lands like Erebor.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
Make the "bridge" movie that the second Hobbit originally was.

Aragorn/Legolas/Gandalf hunting for Gollum (include Dunedain)
Balin and Co. attempting to reclaim Moria
Establish a general 'growing' darkness of Sauron in Mordor
Another White Council meeting where Saruman has already 'turned'
etc.

Could be awesome.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Man God said:
There's actually a couple of stories from the appendices that you could make into a good movie or two. One of them could be the Dwarf/Goblin war, or another on all the stuff that happened during the TT/RotK in other lands like Erebor.
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Certainly possible, but the material is quite scant.
Vashetti said:
Make the "bridge" movie that the second Hobbit originally was.

Aragorn/Legolas/Gandalf hunting for Gollum (include Dunedain)
Balin and Co. attempting to reclaim Moria
Establish a general 'growing' darkness of Sauron in Mordor
Another White Council meeting where Saruman has already 'turned'
etc.

Could be awesome.
Click to expand...
There would be too many narrative threads in such a film and no central protagonist for the audience to follow. The hobbits are essential to the narrative core of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit; without them and their perspective of Middle-earth and its troubles you lose a key element of Tolkien's work. It's one of the reasons why the original Silmarillion manuscript was rejected.
 
F

Franchuzas87

Member
My problem with a hypothetical bridge film is that I'm not fond of the idea if the actors we already associate to those characters don't return (Ian McKellen, Viggo Mortensen...) or are clearly too old for the role. Orlando Bloom already suffered a bit from this, but seeing Viggo as an Aragorn pre-LOTR in 2018 would be... really weird. Probably he wouldn't want it, anyway.

Honestly, next time, if there is a next time, I'd prefer a complete new cast for new characters. Sadly, I doubt they can achieve a really great story without touching the First and Second Age. So probably is for the best if there aren't new Middle-earth films in the next couple of decades.

But, then again, I want to return to filmic Middle-earth somehow someday. So I don't know what to say. I'm just going to enjoy the six films we already have (when the EE of BOFTA comes out) and not think too much about it :p
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Franchuzas87 said:
My problem with a hypothetical bridge film is that I'm not fond of the idea if the actors we already associate to those characters don't return (Ian McKellen, Viggo Mortensen...) or are clearly too old for the role. Orlando Bloom already suffered a bit from this, but seeing Viggo as an Aragorn pre-LOTR in 2018 would be... really weird. Probably he wouldn't want it, anyway.

Honestly, next time, if there is a next time, I'd prefer a complete new cast for new characters. Sadly, I doubt they can achieve a really great story without touching the First and Second Age. So probably is for the best if there aren't new Middle-earth films in the next couple of decades.

But, then again, I want to return to filmic Middle-earth somehow someday. So I don't know what to say. I'm just going to enjoy the six films we already have (when the EE of BOFTA comes out) and not think too much about it :p
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An animated Middle-earth film might be quite charming. It also solves the problem of aged returning actors. But what tale to focus on? And what kind of art style?
 
F

Franchuzas87

Member
Edmond Dantès;143910793 said:
An animated Middle-earth film might be quite charming. It also solves the problem of aged returning actors. But what tale to focus on? And what kind of art style?
Click to expand...

Actually, I've thought about this sometimes. It could be a good alternative for a remake/reboot or telling new stories with a reasonable budget.
 
C

C00kie M0nster

Member
For the first time ever, I didn't really enjoy a Middle-Earth film. I feel overwhelmingly neutral about it. I pray the EE improves it tenfold. I needed more character moments and emotional connections. It was just too much battle and not enough everything else. I really hope that is remedied as this movie just feels unfinished at the moment.
 
G

Gabriel_Logan

Member
Was going to go see the movie but then my car broke for me so I had to buy a new one. Might be reading books only for awhile. Anyway it looks like the EE is going to be the way to go, might just wait for that.
 
T

tryagainlater

Member
I just came back from the cinema and I really enjoyed it. Much better than the last one. Maybe that makes me an idiot since everyone else didn't seem to like it much but it was a lot of fun. There was a number of nice character moments although I do agree that it could use a few more of them which the EE might fix. There was some stuff I didn't like. Alfrid being the obvious example of the bad. Some spotty CGI too. Overall, it was pretty good and led into LOTR nicely. I assume I shouldn't bother posting the OTs where I can imagine people are still acting like these films murdered their families. Oh well.

One thing that I question:
Why would Thranduil care about Aragorn and send Legolas after him? Do the Mirkwood Elves have some connection to the Rangers? Or was Jackson just desperate to give some sort of tie in for Legolas between the two trilogies.

No more Middle Earth movies to look forward to now. At least us Tolkien nuts can look forward to whatever Loxley and Dantes are cooking up for next year though.
 
F

Franchuzas87

Member
Just for fun, I did a table with the length of the principal pieces. Maybe it's not 100% accurate, but I think is pretty close. I read several times that this film is mostly the battle, but as you can see below, it takes over an hour to start, and the Ravenhill part is actually longer than the big battle itself.

Light spoilers:

hobbit3structureo7qod.png
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Gabriel_Logan said:
Was going to go see the movie but then my car broke for me so I had to buy a new one. Might be reading books only for awhile. Anyway it looks like the EE is going to be the way to go, might just wait for that.
Click to expand...
Watching all three extended editions in succession is probably the best way to enjoy this trilogy.

tryagainlater said:
I just came back from the cinema and I really enjoyed it. Much better than the last one. Maybe that makes me an idiot since everyone else didn't seem to like it much but it was a lot of fun. There was a number of nice character moments although I do agree that it could use a few more of them which the EE might fix. There was some stuff I didn't like. Alfrid being the obvious example of the bad. Some spotty CGI too. Overall, it was pretty good and led into LOTR nicely. I assume I shouldn't bother posting the OTs where I can imagine people are still acting like these films murdered their families. Oh well.

One thing that I question:
Why would Thranduil care about Aragorn and send Legolas after him? Do the Mirkwood Elves have some connection to the Rangers? Or was Jackson just desperate to give some sort of tie in for Legolas between the two trilogies.

No more Middle Earth movies to look forward to now. At least us Tolkien nuts can look forward to whatever Loxley and Dantes are cooking up for next year though.
Click to expand...
In terms of that Thranduil scene, it was indeed an invented linking mechanism rather than something explicitly stated in the Legendarium.

Aragorn does however have dealings with the Mirkwood elves, but later in life when he captures Gollum and takes him to them. The first meeting of Legolas and Aragorn is not detailed; presumably they met during the aforementioned delivery of Gollum.
Franchuzas87 said:
Just for fun, I did a table with the length of the principal pieces. Maybe it's not 100% accurate, but I think is pretty close. I read several times that this film is mostly the battle, but as you can see below, it takes over an hour to start, and the Ravenhill part is actually longer than the big battle itself.

Light spoilers:

boftastructure3lrxr.png
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. A good analysis.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
Franchuzas87 said:
Just for fun, I did a table with the length of the principal pieces. Maybe it's not 100% accurate, but I think is pretty close. I read several times that this film is mostly the battle, but as you can see below, it takes over an hour to start, and the Ravenhill part is actually longer than the big battle itself.]
Click to expand...

You see inaccuracies like that repeated a lot when people talk about movies, even ones they just saw.
 
T

Taichu

Member
Saw the film earlier today. I really enjoyed it, especially the run-up to the battle with all the armies gathering on the field. The ending was waaay too short for my liking though!

What happened to the Arkenstone??? Did Thranduil get back his treasure?
 
A

agrajag

Banned
Saw the film today in regular ol 2D. The visuals and action are spectacular and there is plenty of humor, mostly courtesy of Alfred. I liked it a lot more than the second part. Once again, I hated all the superfluous nonsense, but they made up for it with impressive visuals (sans the horrible molten gold 2.0) and inspired design choices (the baby-looking trolls are nightmare inducing and very memorable).

B-
 
T

TwntyOneTwlv

Member
I just got back from the movie. I liked it well enough. The thing that really got to me though was how bloodless the movie was. It made all the action feel cheap.
 
A

A_Gorilla

Banned
Edmond Dantès;143862643 said:
Something akin to Shadow of Mordor seems the most likely. New stories set during the Third Age of Middle-earth and possibly integrating elements from the appendices.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have The Silmarillion as an HBO/Premium network miniseries a la GoT

Not gonna happen, I know, but a man can dream...
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
Just got back from it. Loved it. I also got teary eyed by the end. I really look forward to the extended edition of this next year as I certainly felt there should be more to the ending for me though I love the perfect lead in to The Lord of Rings, made me smile something fierce.
 
M

Megalosaro

Banned
Here are my thoughts on The Hobbit.

Overall, I think it was a mixed back. I guess I'll do this in a Pros, Cons list:

Pros:
- Martin Freeman. He's always done a great job with Bilbo and his work here is fantastic still. Really did a great job.
- Bard. Whoever Bard is, he's been a joy to watch as Bard. Very likeable dude.
- Alfrid. I actually enjoyed his character alot. Some of the best moments in the movie are his. A lot of people compare him to Wormtongue, but really they aren't that similar other then they're both slimy subordinates.
- The battle itself (overall). Peter Jackson still has an eye for battle choreography and flow. Some great moments in there. I have my nitpicks though

Cons
- The Necromancer subplot. This has always been half assed to me in these movies. There is a way they could have done some cool stuff in these movies, but they way it comes across, Sauron gets jobbed. The defeat of the Necromancer sucked. Hard.
- The logic for the Orcs going to Erebor. Because they want a foothold to take back Angmar? What. Angmar is thousands of miles away, and in any case Sauron still has influence in Gundabad, which this movie painstakingly revealed. Erebor is literally NOWHERE near Angmar.
-Legolas using Orcrist most of the movie. It's bullshit that Thorin went most of the last movie and most of this without his iconic sword. Kind of a nice moment when he gives it back to Thorin though.
- When Ravenhill starts, the rest of the battle fades into the background. We go a LONG time without seeing Thranduil and Bard, not to mention the other dwarves. Instead, the big finale is removed from the rest of the battle.
- Lack of comradery. One of the things I liked best from the book is the idea the region is strengthened after the battle. The friendship between Erebor, Dale, and the woodland realm is pretty strong since all three leders become friends after the battle. That feeling of comradery is absent from this movie
 
K

kharma45

Member
Vashetti said:
Is it your role in life to spout negative insults about every aspect of this film, as well as demean people who enjoyed it?
Click to expand...

Yep, you've nailed what I was placed on this planet to do.

I wasn't demeaning him, it was more shock for such a generally derided character with little-to-no redeeming qualities to be liked.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
kharma45 said:
Yep, you've nailed what I was placed on this planet to do.

I wasn't demeaning him, it was more shock for such a generally derided character with little-to-no redeeming qualities to be liked.
Click to expand...

You were demeaning him, you were essentially laughing at him because he enjoyed Alfrid's scenes.

I thoroughly enjoyed all of Alfrid's scenes too, it's not an anomaly.
 
K

kharma45

Member
That wasn't my intention, if that's what you inferred from it so be it, it's not what I meant.

More power to you if you enjoyed Alfrid, but I can't say I agree in the slightest. He was a one-dimensional character who got far too much screen time. The comic relief that was supposed to be offered by him was embarrassingly bad and there wasn't even a satisfactory end for him. He just makes off with a load of gold for tits.

He added absolutely nothing to this film and it'd have been better off without him. He was just one of many terrible decisions in this trilogy.
 
F

Franchuzas87

Member
I liked Alfrid too, he prevented this film to be overly dramatic with so much tension going on.

Maybe is a bit over the top sometimes, but he got plenty of laughs in my theater.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
New Line: No plans to go back again to Middle-Earth on film

The final installment of "The Hobbit" doesn't just mark the conclusion of Bilbo Baggins' journey on the big screen. It's also the end of a massively successful film franchise that's earned New Line and Warner Bros. nearly $5 billion, going all the way back to the 2001 release of "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring."

"I don't know what to compare it to because I've never been involved in a project that's gone on for so long or been such a huge success," said Toby Emmerich, president and CEO of New Line, the unit of Warner Bros. responsible for releasing "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" films over the past 13 years.

The marketing campaign for "The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies" promises moviegoers "one last" trip to Middle-earth when it debuts in wide release Wednesday. Will it really be the final outing for all those dwarfs, elves, hobbits and orcs? After all, "The Hobbit" was originally envisioned as two, not three films.

"I wish I could say differently," said Emmerich. "There is nothing at New Line or Warner Bros. I think there could be another video game, and Middle-earth will probably live on in licensing and merchandising a while longer, but we do not have any plans, as far as I know, to tackle another Middle-earth movie."

"The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" filmmaker Peter Jackson, who crafted all six of the films in his native New Zealand, was similarly adamant that he was finished adapting J.R.R. Tolkien, though he would "never say never" to a Middle-earth homecoming.

"If we wanted to and I don't know whether I would want to or not it's not a question I need to worry about," Jackson said in an interview in London to promote his final "Hobbit." "Warner Bros. has the rights to 'The Lord of the Rings' and 'The Hobbit,' and they don't have the rights to anything else," said the director, who will next work on an extended cut of "The Battle of the Five Armies."

The fate of Middle-earth continuing in other realms beyond literature could be decided in a courtroom. The Tolkien estate and Warner Bros., which doesn't have permission to adapt Tolkien's later work "The Silmarillion," have been legally sparring since 2012 over exactly what the studio's film rights entail when it comes to merchandising.

"The Tolkien estate is very protective, as they should be, and I don't begrudge them that at all," said Jackson, who has expressed interest in creating a "Lord of the Rings" museum in New Zealand. "They are very protective and I don't think there's a lot of room for Warner Bros. to move, particularly."

Is it possible New Line could take a cue from the producers of the James Bond film series, or from their very own colleagues at Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, and use Tolkien's fantasy world as a backdrop for new stories? It recently proved both critically and financially successful for the video-game division.

After recasting Tolkien tales in virtual worlds, the interactive arm at Warner Bros. ventured into mostly uncharted territory earlier this year with Monolith Productions' "Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor," a game set between "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" centered on characters not depicted in the books.

"I think we'd be wary about taking too much creative license with Tolkien and making up stories ourselves that weren't based on what he wrote," said Emmerich. "It doesn't feel to me like what MGM and the Brocollis have so brilliantly done with Bond and Ian Fleming. From where I sit now, it really does feel like this is it."

Emmerich noted it's unlikely the studio would consider spin-off projects, say, a film centered on Evangeline Lilly's elf quarreler Tauriel, who was a new creation for "The Hobbit" films. Other than a possible "Shadow of Mordor" game follow-up, he insisted no return trips to Middle-earth have been booked much to his own personal dismay.

"I've been to New Zealand like 25 or 30 times," said Emmerich. "I was saying to my wife that I really hope we figure out another movie to shoot there with Peter and (special effects studio) Weta because I really can't imagine not having a reason to go there. It's one of my favorite places in the world and not going anymore would make me sad."
Click to expand...
Link


That's that then.
 
J

Jacob

Member
Fingers crossed that this is true NL/WB don't try to churn out the Middle-earth version of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them in a couple of years.

I suppose I'll have to eat crow if Fantastic Beasts turns out to actually be good, but I think the chances of that are pretty low.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
Vashetti said:
You were demeaning him, you were essentially laughing at him because he enjoyed Alfrid's scenes.

I thoroughly enjoyed all of Alfrid's scenes too, it's not an anomaly.
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"generally deried" meaning " I didn't like him no so one should".

Unless someone else quotes them, I just ignore the
bilbos_trolls_3.jpg
 
F

Franchuzas87

Member
I've never been a fan of the people who says "this is good, that is bad" instead of "I like this, I don't like that".

Sadly, in forums I usually meet more of the former.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
There's still the EE of TBoFA to go.

And perhaps even longer versions of LOTR and The Hobbit if they want to 'milk' fans further.

But yes, this appears to be it. They don't have the rights to anything else.
 
Ixion

Ixion

Member
Video games give Warner Bros a lot more freedom to create their own stories in Middle-Earth, since people seem to view video games more as fan projects to be taken less seriously. Something like Shadow of Mordor in theaters wouldn't fly.

So WB will probably just focus on that going forward.
 
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