Giant Bomb GOTY 2014 - Destiny Has Brought Us Here
- Thread starter daydream
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njean777
Member
You say opinions are opinions, then lead your argument with an opinion... then you insult people who like destiny. You sound just as bad.
Cheesewheel
Member
It's done by the people who made 999 and Zero Escape which he really enjoyed. However, being nothing more than a visual novel means that it would never score highly.
Unaha-Closp
Member
Destiny getting on is no different to the time Syndicate got on and only Jeff liked it and when Dota 2 got on when only Brad liked it. It does seem that Jeff and Brad have more sway than anybody else though. That may just be a perception thing I guess. They talk the most and host/co host the thing.
It has slightly more gameplay than Ace Attorney series so if anyone likes those, Danganronpa should feel right at home. Altho DR is way more darker and twisted.
I was disappointed the music wasn't even mentioned in Best Music category. DR has an amazing soundtrack.
nobodyshero
Banned
It's absolutely different, because no one else actively disliked and could mount legitimate arguments against Syndicate or DOTA
njean777
Member
What was Alex's prime argument against Destiny other then he found it boring? That isn't a great argument either. Dans was the same way. It isn't always about if the game is interesting to you or not. Jeff was the only one who said he was massively disappointed by Destiny (yet for some reason still plays it). Brad always defended Destiny against Jeff's tirades.
nobodyshero
Banned
Even then, they all have good to great things to say about Wolfenstein or Diablo. Even brad. It just makes zero sense.
You know...that was probably key to getting it in there, it wouldn't have survived that long otherwise. Brad did his research.
That the mission design was terrible.
They all had plenty legitimate arguments against Destiny.
I'm pretty amazed at the number of salty pages dedicated to trashing Brad & Destiny.
Maybe it's 'cause I've no personal attachment to the genre, but man do people read as being WAY over-invested in the subject.
There's interesting theories on the matter for sure. Destiny doesn't deserve to place. The rest of the team didn't like it. Brad stonewalled the game into the Top 10. Destiny ranking kept my favorite game from getting on the list.
That's all well and good. But to me these arguments are completely irrelevant in the face of the Giant Bomb GOTY deliberations process. They'd make more sense if levied against a faceless outlet like CNET purporting to releasing an objective list of 2014's Best. A list more in line with Metacritic's end of year tally. That's simply not how Giant Bomb operates or presents themselves to their audience.
Destiny got on that list because Brad had the passion to get it there. You can agree with the choice or not, but it completely deserves the spot. Remember, the list isn't Metacritic Top 10 of 2014, it's Giant Bomb's Top 10 GOTY, a site driven by personalities beholden to no one to offer an objective best-of list.
The compete failure to respect this process and it's participants boggles my mind. It's a fluid and scatter-shot process, informal and unpredictable. So much so that a relative unknown like Guilty Gear can make a last second entry/win in the Best Looking Game category. That's the beauty of it. The nominees and winners are infused with the site's collective personality.
I find that far more interesting than comparatively championing my personal faves and vilifying the disliked. For the record, I've played exactly two games in that Top 10 list, and it doesn't bother me in the least that my favorite of the year "wasn't represented".
I guess if people just didn't take it so personally there wouldn't be so much salt. It's discouraging to read so much ire directed toward a site that purportedly brings us such joy. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with the picks, but I honestly believe the foundation of these arguments are entirely flawed in expectations for "the process". The angle it's currently being argued from is bearing out nothing but defamation, hostility and sour grapes.
Which is a shame as the whole conversation deserves to be so much more upbeat as GOTY proceedings are commonly considered a celebration of the year in gaming.
Maybe it's 'cause I've no personal attachment to the genre, but man do people read as being WAY over-invested in the subject.
There's interesting theories on the matter for sure. Destiny doesn't deserve to place. The rest of the team didn't like it. Brad stonewalled the game into the Top 10. Destiny ranking kept my favorite game from getting on the list.
That's all well and good. But to me these arguments are completely irrelevant in the face of the Giant Bomb GOTY deliberations process. They'd make more sense if levied against a faceless outlet like CNET purporting to releasing an objective list of 2014's Best. A list more in line with Metacritic's end of year tally. That's simply not how Giant Bomb operates or presents themselves to their audience.
Destiny got on that list because Brad had the passion to get it there. You can agree with the choice or not, but it completely deserves the spot. Remember, the list isn't Metacritic Top 10 of 2014, it's Giant Bomb's Top 10 GOTY, a site driven by personalities beholden to no one to offer an objective best-of list.
The compete failure to respect this process and it's participants boggles my mind. It's a fluid and scatter-shot process, informal and unpredictable. So much so that a relative unknown like Guilty Gear can make a last second entry/win in the Best Looking Game category. That's the beauty of it. The nominees and winners are infused with the site's collective personality.
I find that far more interesting than comparatively championing my personal faves and vilifying the disliked. For the record, I've played exactly two games in that Top 10 list, and it doesn't bother me in the least that my favorite of the year "wasn't represented".
I guess if people just didn't take it so personally there wouldn't be so much salt. It's discouraging to read so much ire directed toward a site that purportedly brings us such joy. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with the picks, but I honestly believe the foundation of these arguments are entirely flawed in expectations for "the process". The angle it's currently being argued from is bearing out nothing but defamation, hostility and sour grapes.
Which is a shame as the whole conversation deserves to be so much more upbeat as GOTY proceedings are commonly considered a celebration of the year in gaming.
South Park and Jazzpunk were genuinely funny, but not funny enough to make me sit through playing the "game" part of them
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare, Far Cry 4, and Hearthstone had polished but largely unoriginal mechanics and what's more had not even a spark of life in terms of aesthetics.
But both Shadow of Mordor and Bayonetta 2 I despised so much aesthetically I couldn't stand to play them even if their mechanics do seem somewhat more interesting.
So the only games on their top 10 list I enjoyed were Destiny, Mario Kart 8, and Shovel Knight
and I can think of PLENTY of better games than Shovel Knight this year
the games I'd put on instead?
NaissanceE (this was this year's "Journey" for me)
Escape Goat 2 (one of the best puzzle platformers of all time, and the best soundtrack of the year)
Divinity: Original Sin (a new standard for turn based combat mechanics)
Thief (my second favorite stealth game of all time after the original Thief)
Drive Club (the only driving game with real cars I've ever enjoyed, also the most a videogame has ever looked like the real world)
Rusty's Real Deal Baseball (the best new portable game this year)
Dark Souls II (a huge disappointment, but only because Dark Souls was the game of the generation)
then it's a tough fight as to what should take Shovel Knight's place, maybe Lovely Planet or Cloudbuilt or Fract OSC or Captain Toad or Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
oh, and Destiny is easily #1, mostly for the Crucible. Still haven't played the raids.
I most respect Jeff's love of Luftrausers, Patrick's love of P.T., Vinny's of The Fall, and Dan's of Smash Brothers even if I don't feel that way about those games.
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare, Far Cry 4, and Hearthstone had polished but largely unoriginal mechanics and what's more had not even a spark of life in terms of aesthetics.
But both Shadow of Mordor and Bayonetta 2 I despised so much aesthetically I couldn't stand to play them even if their mechanics do seem somewhat more interesting.
So the only games on their top 10 list I enjoyed were Destiny, Mario Kart 8, and Shovel Knight
and I can think of PLENTY of better games than Shovel Knight this year
the games I'd put on instead?
NaissanceE (this was this year's "Journey" for me)
Escape Goat 2 (one of the best puzzle platformers of all time, and the best soundtrack of the year)
Divinity: Original Sin (a new standard for turn based combat mechanics)
Thief (my second favorite stealth game of all time after the original Thief)
Drive Club (the only driving game with real cars I've ever enjoyed, also the most a videogame has ever looked like the real world)
Rusty's Real Deal Baseball (the best new portable game this year)
Dark Souls II (a huge disappointment, but only because Dark Souls was the game of the generation)
then it's a tough fight as to what should take Shovel Knight's place, maybe Lovely Planet or Cloudbuilt or Fract OSC or Captain Toad or Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
oh, and Destiny is easily #1, mostly for the Crucible. Still haven't played the raids.
I most respect Jeff's love of Luftrausers, Patrick's love of P.T., Vinny's of The Fall, and Dan's of Smash Brothers even if I don't feel that way about those games.
brickwalker0
Member
(Only on Day 2 so far)
A real shame Driveclub didn't get a mention for Best Looking.
I really feel like the rest of the group considers the game taboo just because Jeff so adamantly hated it when he reviewed it. Justice has not been served.
A real shame Driveclub didn't get a mention for Best Looking.
I really feel like the rest of the group considers the game taboo just because Jeff so adamantly hated it when he reviewed it. Justice has not been served.
Neitherside made arguments that swayed the other. Thing is, the list is suppose to be a consensus. Its hard to say that thats what it was when 6 of the 8 objected to Destiny being on the list. By comparison, only Brad and Jeff disagreed about Mario Kart.
I feel like when you're talking about subjective opinions regarding the best games of the year "it was boring" is a very valid stance.
RedRooster
Member
Just in the GOTY episode, and am SO happy Patrick made a good fight for Binding Of Isaac. I can't believe these guys aren't putting it in the top ten of the year, there's not an indie game on PS4 I played and enjoyed more, not even close. I've got Far Cry 4 sitting in my disc drive, and I'll still boot Binding of Isaac first when I sit down to play in the evening. "Just one quick run".
I don't know if it's a case of Jeff and Brad having more sway, like their opinion counting for more within the group, as much as I get the feeling that Jeff and Brad approach the process with a mindset slightly askew to the rest of the group. There's the idea that you all sit down and agree to come to a consensus on which games best represent GB's collective top ten, and there's the idea that you come to the table with your personal favourites/dislikes and fight tooth and nail to get your own singular tastes represented. The latter is fine I guess as long as everyone knows that's the method going in, but that approach (treating the process as an argument to be won, rather than a discussion to be explored) just isn't one I can say I enjoy personally. It's a pub argument, with all the cheap debating strategies and ploys that go along with it, and those are only entertaining when you're taking part and pleasantly inebriated. For the GB roundtable thing, I'd prefer that strictly personal tastes (ones acutely misaligned with the rest of the group) remain where they should be: represented on personal lists.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
It's why people shouldn't get too caught up in review scores. Jeff gave Infamous Second Son a 4/5 and if you ever heard him talking about it you would swear he gave it a 2/5. These are human beings with opinions, opinions change over time, and you are likely going to strongly disagree with them at times. As such they can become prisoners of the moment, have nostalgia goggles, and grow appreciation for something over time just like any of us.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I realize that, and I'm asking if that's the case here.
njean777
Member
It isn't. I think many games on their list were boring, doesn't mean I am right and I wouldn't argue them down either just because I thought a game was boring.
Remember when Assassin's Creed 3 got 4 stars but won Most Disappointing Game? Remember when Mass Effect 3 got nominated for Most Disappointing but still got 4 stars and was Brad's GOTY and ended up at like #5 on their overall top 10? Remember when Brad gave 5 stars to Diablo 3 and it wasn't mentioned a single time during any of the GOTY deliberations?
These kinds of inconsistencies aren't really new to GB.
These kinds of inconsistencies aren't really new to GB.
Yea, sometimes you see all the flaws in a game and give it the score you think it deserves. And yet, you still love the shit outta it.
what you're saying is they should do the GOTY deliberations drunk
fun fact: when I worked for a magazine, this is how we determined the "100 best games of all time" list: all night drinking party
But you would if you were part of the discussion, right? That's kind of the point of those.
nobodyshero
Banned
I like destiny quite a bit, so I don't even mind it on the list, it's just odd. The only parts of the deliberations I felt were truly dumb were the infamous Donkey Kong YouTube samples, and kicking Hearthstone for best debut for a resin that should have also given Mordor the boot, despite that winning the category.
I've been pondering GB's top 10 GOTY deliberation method. Do we like this the way it is? Would it be better if each member submitted a ranked list which was tallied to decide the GOTY? (Like on GAF)
They can deliberate on which game could enter the top 20 pool for which the editors could pick a top 10 from. But the actual ranking and top 10 cut off could be done by voting. This way, it eliminates the "attrition" aspect and bitter feelings from the community.
They already informally do this but I feel like its a fight of wills and in the end, they settle.
What do people think?
P.S - I am okay with how they approach the other categories. It's just the top 10 and bitterness from the community that inspired this post.
They can deliberate on which game could enter the top 20 pool for which the editors could pick a top 10 from. But the actual ranking and top 10 cut off could be done by voting. This way, it eliminates the "attrition" aspect and bitter feelings from the community.
They already informally do this but I feel like its a fight of wills and in the end, they settle.
What do people think?
P.S - I am okay with how they approach the other categories. It's just the top 10 and bitterness from the community that inspired this post.
My man
I want to add locks to the door and replace the baffling on the podcast room walls with assorted weapons. New format for GOTY podcast is a cage match, first one who escapes gets to name the game of the year.
nobodyshero
Banned
Pretty sure they don't give a flying fuck what we think, so who cares?
nope this is way more fun. dat salt
I like the discussion format. If you break it down to a scored vote, it ends up favoring the games that everyone played enough, which doesn't work for a decision that is made early December.
Just looking at the Top 10 list, I can only think "This was a hell of a year". A lot of meaty games on there, and like the rough 11-20 is still filled with fun, meaty, polished games.
I like it the way it is (I think they did it like you describe, or something like that, the first couple of years?). Makes it more chaotic. I don't care at all about the final top 10 (I don't like Destiny but it's on the list, who cares?), it's a product of 8 people arguing so no one's ever gonna be satisfied, I just want the deliberations to be unpredictable. We've got the individual top 10s for the "real" top 10 lists. All the warring and filibustering just shows how arbitrary a consensus top 10 list really is, and that's good.
That automated list would make for a very short podcast, which is the the main attraction of this whole ordeal, the final list is only secondary.
Doesn't seem like it.
brickwalker0
Member
But I just posted about it?
I meant among the people on the podcast. There are clearly people who care far, far too much about Drive Club. People care more about Drive Club than any sane person should ever care about something that they didn't birth themselves. But at Giant Bomb, nobody cares about the game.
Also I'm pretty sure the podcasts were recorded before the weather update, so it didn't even look all that great at the time anyway. It looked slightly better than other racing games, and that's probably not going to win a best looking award any time soon because racing games have looked more or less pretty great for years now.
EmCeeGramr
Member
XCOM is GOTY 2012, it's barely ever mentioned again, nobody ever talks about playing it, or the phone/tablet versions, or the well received expansion, or the major fan mod scene with stuff like Long War, and Patrick is the only one who shows any increased interest in turn based strategy games (IIRC he actually called them out on this when they couldn't muster any interest in Fire Emblem).
brickwalker0
Member
Still bummed Wolfenstein didn't take number 10. It should have. I think everyone but Brad and Jeff thought it was a better game and Vinny had no opinion since he hadn't played much.
Listening to them debate is somewhat entertaining but I wish they would just switch to a voting systems for controversial games. Yeah it wouldn't make for good podcast material but it would settle things fairly. If Brad felt very strongly about Destiny and that's fine but kicking and screaming about it to be on the site's top ten list was unnecessary. Even Jeff at one point after thinking it through said it shouldn't be on the list. It felt like Vinny just wanted to move on and pushed for everyone to give Brad what he wanted.
Like in past years they've said "that's what personal top 10 picks were for". I mean Jeff and Vinny felt very strongly about Luftrausers but you didn't see them trying super hard for it since they could always personally put it on this list.
I guess I'm just frustrated since I just listened to a 4 hour podcast with a lot of it being an argument over the NUMBER 10 game on the list. Just feels like every year there's some dumb debate on whether a game that shouldn't be on this list should be there because of one person.
Listening to them debate is somewhat entertaining but I wish they would just switch to a voting systems for controversial games. Yeah it wouldn't make for good podcast material but it would settle things fairly. If Brad felt very strongly about Destiny and that's fine but kicking and screaming about it to be on the site's top ten list was unnecessary. Even Jeff at one point after thinking it through said it shouldn't be on the list. It felt like Vinny just wanted to move on and pushed for everyone to give Brad what he wanted.
Like in past years they've said "that's what personal top 10 picks were for". I mean Jeff and Vinny felt very strongly about Luftrausers but you didn't see them trying super hard for it since they could always personally put it on this list.
I guess I'm just frustrated since I just listened to a 4 hour podcast with a lot of it being an argument over the NUMBER 10 game on the list. Just feels like every year there's some dumb debate on whether a game that shouldn't be on this list should be there because of one person.