Support NeoGAF

[Watch Da Birdie]

I think every member here has what I'd like to call a "GAF Bias", a bias against posts or threads that focus on a certain topic. Not exactly an all-out aversion, rather, when you see the subject that you are biased against, you usually roll your eyes, or just skip over it. A lot of people, for example, treat anime like this---people commonly say that when they see an anime avatar, they don't pay any attention to the user, and naturally I imagine they avoid most anime threads.

For me, it's comic books. Specifically, pretty much mainstream American comics, basically the superhero ones. Basically, when I say comic book in this thread, assume I'm talking about those. Now, I have nothing against people who enjoy comic books...I have my own nerdy interests as well, but I find it a bit difficult to really get into comic books. Unlike manga, which I enjoyed as a kid (I don't read it as much since my bad eyes make it difficult for me to follow the black-and-white images), comic books are a bit more intimidating. Manga, you can pick a series, and jump in without any problems, but like comic books, there's all these confusing terminology to learn, how each story ties into one another, the various continuities, it's pretty intimidating. I find comic book movies interesting enough---certainly not the GOAT for me, but entertaining, and I always wanted to become more familiar with the source material, but I just can never find myself having enough interest to read through a comic.

Whenever I see a panel from a comic posted on GAF, I'll admit, I *don't* get it. Specifically, when someone posts a comic thread about a cool new story-arc, or a cool panel thread, I just can't get over my bias towards it---the art is pretty much never appealing to me, and looks downright bad, the flow of the comic is usually confusing, and the dialogue is often cringeworthy, or extremely unnatural to me. I go into these threads hoping to learn more about cape comics, and find possibly a series I might like, but I always come out feeling the exact same sense of biasness towards them. The only comic panels I enjoy are the old-school cheesy ones like the Thanos Copter, and the 'Wall came tumbling down!" one. Otherwise, I dunno, I just have this weird aversion to comics that I can't seem to cure myself over. I have nothing against super-heroes, either, I enjoyed a lot of the animated DC properties for example, and I'm really into Kamen Rider, but when it comes to reading western super-hero comics, my brain just switches off.

 

[Josh7289]

That just means that you don't like something that other people like. It's normal that there are many things like that for each of us.

 

[guek]

What kind of manga are you into

 

[Htown]

Manga, you can pick a series, and jump in without any problems, but like comic books, there's all these confusing terminology to learn, how each story ties into one another, the various continuities, it's pretty intimidating.

Um

what?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Um

what?

Yeah, I had to do a double take there.

 

[Bloodember]

There's more to comics than just super hero comics, also there are more publishers than just Marvel and DC.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

What kind of manga are you into

Really fucked up shit.

Nah, basically I just enjoyed the Shonen-genre pretty much as a kid (which is on the same level as superhero comics, so it's not like I consider them beneath me intellectually or anything), and whenever I feel nostalgic I might read through one.

My favorites were Yu-Gi-Oh, BoBoBo, Shaman King, Kinnikuman, JoJo, etc. I've never really been too much into the huge ones like DBZ, Naruto, Bleach, or One Piece, although the first I'm marathoning the anime right now, and with One Piece I read through it a few years ago during the Pirate War Arc and enjoyed it, but I think it's a bit over hyped at times and it's difficult for me to read because of how packed each panel is, it hurts my eyes.

Um

what?

Am I wrong?

With manga, you find a story you like, and there's a linear set of chapters you read to understand the story more or less.

But with comics, you have the stories written by different people, spread out over-time and interconnecting with one another, it's hard to figure out for a newcomer what to start with.

 

[Ramza]

Manga, you can pick a series, and jump in without any problems, but like comic books, there's all these confusing terminology to learn, how each story ties into one another, the various continuities, it's pretty intimidating.

Manga, you can pick a series, and jump in without any problems, but like comic books, there's all these confusing terminology

Manga, you can pick a series, and jump in without any problems

Dafuq?

 

[Parallax]

Um

what?

my reaction too

 

[Supermanisdead]

There's so many comics writers and artists that it's basically impossible to find one you don't like. Just google around.

 

[bengraven]

Um

what?

Yeah, um, the OPs argument is flawed.

American comics at least usually have a page describing what happened before and who our characters are. I've read many many manga that started an issue with "I'M FULLY POWERED AND GOING TO FUCK YOU UP" "NO I'M GOING TO FUCK UP YOU!" and what the fuck, who's the bad guy, what happened?!

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

Yeah, um, the OPs argument is flawed.

American comics at least usually have a page describing what happened before and who our characters are. I've read many many manga that started an issue with "I'M FULLY POWERED AND GOING TO FUCK YOU UP" "NO I'M GOING TO FUCK UP YOU!" and what the fuck, who's the bad guy, what happened?!

That's only in individual issues, though. You don't really get that in the trades.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I mean if you tell someone you want to read about Goku, you know where to begin...Dragon Ball, Volume 1. There's an easy to understand linear progression of the character.

But you can't do that with, say, Spider Man. When you say you want to read about Spider Man, it's who's run, what universe, which continuity, etc.

Manga just has far less baggage than western superhero comics. I think people would agree with this point, right?

 

[Goliath]

I don't see how Manga is easier to pick up then superhero comics? For one, their is a HUGE cultural barrier in fully understanding some phrases or situation in Manga without first understanding the Japanese culture. Then of course finding Manga isn't easy for everyone and waiting for some to get translated officially can be a long wait.

As for Superhero comics, there are plenty of trades that contain individually contained stories that don't expand into the rest of the comic book universe. A quick wikipedia origin or power review is all you need to fully understand many comics. " Wolverine has lived a long time (think Highlander), has a metal skeleton and claws and has gaps in his memory." There, you are now fully capable to read about 90% of his comics. It's only intimidating because you wanna make it so.

 

[joelseph]

I used to have the same assumptions you do about comics. I jumped in on SAGA and have come to realize that there is a whole portion of the comic industry that is not super hero related. It's an extremely rewarding medium.

 

[Baconsaurus Rex]

Yeah comics suck

 

[Cyan]

You're projecting, dude. It's like people who think they don't have accents while everyone else does.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I don't think comics are JUST superheroes even, I realize there's a lot out there focusing on a variety of issues, although I'll admit I'm not really a comic aficionado.

My issue is that I want to like the superhero ones, I think I'd enjoy them if I could get past the initial barrier that's keeping me from doing so, but I just can't.

You're projecting, dude. It's like people who think they don't have accents while everyone else does.

Err...projecting what exactly?

I really don't understand what you're going with with that metaphor. If I understand it correctly, that would be like if I came into this thread and said everyone else had biases, but I don't.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Confusing terminology?

 

[Delta Assault]

Not all comic books are confusing to get into. If you want to read The Walking Dead, just start with the first trade, or the first compendium. Then buy the next trade with the number 2. And so on.

Same with something like Y the Last Man. The trades are all numbered. And they're all written by the same guy.

Or you can pick up Watchmen, which is one tome with all 12 issues.

 

[Slayven]

Um

what?

my reaction too

Y'all's ancient Krytopian game ain't tight?

 

[Parallax]

That's only in individual issues, though. You don't really get that in the trades.

do you need that for trades? they usually are a continuous story arc.

I used to have the same assumptions you do about comics. I jumped in on SAGA and have come to realize that there is a whole portion of the comic industry that is not super hero drivel. It's an extremely rewarding medium.

come on now

 

[Mudcrab]

I mean if you tell someone you want to read about Goku, you know where to begin...Dragon Ball, Volume 1. There's an easy to understand linear progression of the character.

But you can't do that with, say, Spider Man. When you say you want to read about Spider Man, it's who's run, what universe, which continuity, etc.

Manga just has far less baggage than western superhero comics. I think people would agree with this point, right?

No, not really. It's all one continuity and there's only one universe (aside from special one time things which are advertised as such). Comics often have jumping on points intended just for new readers. I mean I'm certain you have a basic knowledge of Spider-man from pop culture in general which is more than enough to start.

Yeah comics suck

 

[DeadTsar]

But with comics, you have the stories written by different people, spread out over-time and interconnecting with one another, it's hard to figure out for a newcomer what to start with.

I understand this sentiment

 

[Cyan]

Err...projecting what exactly?

Projecting your own knowledge and experience as common knowledge or as the baseline. Manga are less confusing to you because you have lots of experience with manga, not because manga are inherently less confusing.

 

[guek]

Really fucked up shit.

Nah, basically I just enjoyed the Shonen-genre pretty much as a kid (which is on the same level as superhero comics, so it's not like I consider them beneath me intellectually or anything), and whenever I feel nostalgic I might read through one.

My favorites were Yu-Gi-Oh, BoBoBo, Shaman King, Kinnikuman, JoJo, etc. I've never really been too much into the huge ones like DBZ, Naruto, Bleach, or One Piece, although the first I'm marathoning the anime right now, and with One Piece I read through it a few years ago during the Pirate War Arc and enjoyed it, but I think it's a bit over hyped at times and it's difficult for me to read because of how packed each panel is, it hurts my eyes.



Am I wrong?

With manga, you find a story you like, and there's a linear set of chapters you read to understand the story more or less.

But with comics, you have the stories written by different people, spread out over-time and interconnecting with one another, it's hard to figure out for a newcomer what to start with.

Look into a series called runaways by Brian K Vaughn. You could also try Thor the Mighty Avenger by Roger Langridge. There's also more graphic novel style stuff like Y the Last Man, Walking Dead, Fables, etc.

 

[tokkun]

I have a GAF Bias against threads about whether some celebrity had a particularly unattractive photograph taken of him/her.

 

[Slayven]

I don't know why folks think you need 50 years of study just to read a comic series, 98% of comics are just as easy to jump into as 98% manga. If not more so

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

No, not really. It's all one continuity and there's only one universe. Comics often have jumping on points intended just for new readers. I mean I'm certain you have a basic knowledge of Spider-man from pop culture in general which is more than enough to start.

I know Spider-man's uncle died, and he was bitten by a radioactive Spider.

But I'm pretty sure I'm not just imagining the fact that there's multiple continuities involved with mainstream superhero comics? Besides the reboots, of course, aren't there multiple Earths and such?

Projecting your own knowledge and experience as common knowledge or as the baseline. Manga are less confusing to you because you have lots of experience with manga, not because manga are inherently less confusing.

No, I think I'm objectively correct here.

Ignoring the actual plot of manga, and other issues that arises as a result of cultural barriers, I'm talking about Shonen Manga and Superhero Comics, which are about on the same level intended for the same age group. Manga is written by one author, and is a linear story. There's a set beginning, and a set end. There might be animated adaptations, and spin-offs written after the fact, but usually there's a Point A, and a Point B, and you just read in a straight path.

For comics, it seems that this isn't the usual method of telling the story...instead, while you might have a linear run, there's never really a solid beginning point, and no real ending point, when it comes to a character's story. You usually have to sort of search around to find out which is the BEST version of that character's story, and it comes with a lot of recommendations.

I'm not a manga expert or anything, I just think the way it works is far simpler for a reader looking for a decent story without needing a lot of prior knowledge.

 

[Parallax]

I don't know why folks you need 50 years of study just to read a comic series, 98% of comics are just as easy to jump into as 98% manga. If not more so

its much easier to jump into comics now than it was years ago helps new readers.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Your bias seems mostly formed from assumptions and just plain not liking the specific stuff that's being posted, which is fine.

I know Spider-man's uncle died, and he was bitten by a radioactive Spider.

But I'm pretty sure I'm not just imagining the fact that there's multiple continuities involved with mainstream superhero comics? Besides the reboots, of course, aren't there multiple Earths and such?

Yes but it's not that complicated. You've got regular Marvel and Ultimate Marvel, those are the two main universes in which the books take place.

It is possible for comics to get sometimes get outta hand with regards to connecting storylines and such, but that's more of a failure of the writer/editor than of the entire medium/industry

 

[joelseph]

come on now

I changed the word to be less offensive. My sincere apologies.

 

[Abounder]

I have nothing against super-heroes, either, I enjoyed a lot of the animated DC properties for example, and I'm really into Kamen Rider, but when it comes to reading western super-hero comics, my brain just switches off.

DC Animation is the best in the business when it comes to superheroes, everything else is basically a step down. Maybe you would like shorter series like the Watchmen

When it comes to manga, Marvel/DC, etc. my bias is with Sunday Funnies.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Read well regarded collections or graphic novels to ease yourself into some of the better known characters. Any character that's completely out of the blue you can do a 5 minute wiki search to get the gist of their powers and motivations.

For example, you don't really need to have read/seen anything beyond the most recent Batman/Superman films to read through all of The Dark Knight Returns or Year One.

Or you can read standalone works like a lot of Alan Moore's stuff and just marvel at his (mostly based on real) world-building.

 

[Slayven]

its much easier to jump into comics now than it was years ago helps new readers.

Marvel has had the "basic shit you need know" page 1 in comics since the 90s.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Am I wrong?

With manga, you find a story you like, and there's a linear set of chapters you read to understand the story more or less.

But with comics, you have the stories written by different people, spread out over-time and interconnecting with one another, it's hard to figure out for a newcomer what to start with.

Guys he's not wrong about this aspect. Take Batman. There's different series like Batman, Detective Comics, Batgirl, Batwoman, Robin, Nightwing, etc. It's not uncommon for there to be cross over between the various serious especially on a major storyline. I can see how it can be confusing to know which order to read things in and which issues to get.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Marvel has had the "basic shit you need know" page 1 in comics since the 90s.

I always wondered, why is that only a Marvel thing? Like did they copyright that? Cause DC still doesn't do that. It could be DC cheaping out on page count or using the page for the main story but I don't know.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

OP, I'd say that it depends on what exactly you're looking for in comics. One of my favorite things about superhero fiction is that the big two superhero universes encompass many different type of genre fiction (classic caped crusader, cosmic, street-level, fantasy, horror, western, etc.). Identify a specific character, team, or setting you want to read, and be sure to specify that you want something accessible for a new reader.

Also, you may want to check out one-off stories or series that don't interact with the mainline continuities at all. Popular recommendations for this kind of story include The Dark Knight Returns, Kingdom Come, and All-Star Superman.

And if you want specific in-continuity series that you don't need to know continuity for, I recommend Hawkeye by Matt Fraction. Started a few years ago, ending in a few months with its 22nd issue, collected in three trades so far, fourth is on its way. Very little reliance on continuity from what I've read.

And yeah, like someone else said, look into non-superhero western comics.

This is coming from someone who started reading superhero comics this past August.

 

[Fawoosh]

I understand the frustration with cape comic continuity and half a century worth of lore. I've been reading comic books since I was 5 and finally gave up on capes half way through college. I got tired of trying to keep track of crossovers, major plot points from years ago, and which ones were canon or redacted because they were just too stupid.

Look for shorter or smaller series that stand on their own. I'm currently reading (or have read) and recommend:

The Marquis (Horror)
Blacksad (Detective Noir)
Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy)
The Fuse (Detective Sci-Fi)
Wild Blue Yonder (Action/Adventure)
The Goon (Cartoon Horror)

 

[Slayven]

I know Spider-man's uncle died, and he was bitten by a radioactive Spider.

But I'm pretty sure I'm not just imagining the fact that there's multiple continuities involved with mainstream superhero comics? Besides the reboots, of course, aren't there multiple Earths and such?

Guys he's not wrong about this aspect. Take Batman. There's different series like Batman, Detective Comics, Batgirl, Batwoman, Robin, Nightwing, etc. It's not uncommon for there to be cross over between the various serious especially on a major storyline. I can see how it can be confusing to know which order to read things in and which issues to get.

99% of that stuff is not needed to read one series, and when it is they will just give you a blub about it.

I always wondered, why is that only a Marvel thing? Like did they copyright that? Cause DC still doesn't do that. It could be DC cheaping out on page count or using the page for the main story but I don't know.

That is a good question, don't know why they don't.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I know Spider-man's uncle died, and he was bitten by a radioactive Spider.

But I'm pretty sure I'm not just imagining the fact that there's multiple continuities involved with mainstream superhero comics? Besides the reboots, of course, aren't there multiple Earths and such?

DC has multiple Earths. it isn't confusing however, it says right on the cover "you are reading about the Superman of Earth 23 where he is black and the president of the United States" if that particular Superman interest you, you pick up his comics.

then you have regular old Superman of Earth one (or is it prime? I forget) and if you like that read up on that. 90% of the focus that DC comics devotes will be on that Superman for example but the other Earths are used to tell other stories by different writers and such. Marvel also has alternate universes/ print labels to tell other stories with their most popular characters. like the ultimate line, the Max label, etc, etc.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Guys he's not wrong about this aspect. Take Batman. There's different series like Batman, Detective Comics, Batgirl, Batwoman, Robin, Nightwing, etc. It's not uncommon for there to be cross over between the various serious especially on a major storyline. I can see how it can be confusing to know which order to read things in and which issues to get.

This really isn't as hard anymore since the creation of trade paperbacks. They're usually numbered and are collected by author. I agree that it's probably more difficult then manga, but anymore all you really have to do is come here and say a character and there will probably be a dozen people recommending story lines and authors with links to where to buy them.

I know Spider-man's uncle died, and he was bitten by a radioactive Spider.

But I'm pretty sure I'm not just imagining the fact that there's multiple continuities involved with mainstream superhero comics? Besides the reboots, of course, aren't there multiple Earths and such?

This isn't the type of stuff you should be worrying about when you're just getting into comics. It's like just getting into Power Rangers and trying to figure out what goes on in every series instead of focusing on one at a time. A lot of the time the separate universes have their own books and continuity, so you can almost always just hold off learning about the greater multiverse until you feel established enough in the main one.

Honestly man, if a comic book series is good it stands on it's own and can give you the feel of all of the characters history as it goes. Sure, you might miss a reference or two of past history of the character, but over all it shouldn't take away from the story being told.

 

[Mumei]

I found comics confusing at first when all I knew was that there was various Superman comics, or Spider-Man, or Batman, or X-Men, or whatever else comics. I was approaching it from the perspective of reading manga, where the work is the result of a single creator and his assistants (and whatever editorial meddling went on). So, I had this idea like I'd have to know, "Okay, I have to read Batman: Knightfall before I read Long Halloween, and I have to read Year One first, and The Dark Knight Returns has to be read later because it occurs much later in the chronology..." or something like that. I won't say that's exactly how I was envisioning it, but I don't suppose I was much less clueless.

But once you realize that while you could choose to read a creator's run in its entirety, it is often entirely possible to say, "I just want to read Days of Future Past," or, "I just want to read Superman: Secret Identity," or, "I just want to read Spider-Man: Blue," and you'll get a complete story arc. This makes getting into comics much less daunting than getting into manga, I think.

 

[Lum1n3s]

I mean if you tell someone you want to read about Goku, you know where to begin...Dragon Ball, Volume 1. There's an easy to understand linear progression of the character.

But you can't do that with, say, Spider Man. When you say you want to read about Spider Man, it's who's run, what universe, which continuity, etc.

Manga just has far less baggage than western superhero comics. I think people would agree with this point, right?

I get where you're coming from and it makes sense, comics have so much more variety out there that it can be hard knowing what to get into. Especially since there have been a ton of storyline from both Marvel and DC.

The only reason I got into comics was because of the DC reboot that went on which helped out a lot. If someone were to ask me where to begin with comics, honestly the hardcovers are the best thing to go by but other than that I'd be at a complete standstill lol.

 

[Slayven]

Of course Lord Mumei pipes in to talk about him keeping in touch with the riff raff by consuming the little people's penny dreadifuls.

 

[Wiktor]

I think superhero comic books are very hard to get into if you didn't get used to them as a kid. They're full of dumb contrived convetions you have to ignore to enjoy them fully and that's not easy thing to learn as adult.

So my advice would be to read non superheroes comic books for a start

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I found comics confusing at first when all I knew was that there was various Superman comics, or Spider-Man, or Batman, or X-Men, or whatever else comics. I was approaching it from the perspective of reading manga, where the work is the result of a single creator and his assistants (and whatever editorial meddling went on). So, I had this idea like I'd have to know, "Okay, I have to read Batman: Knightfall before I read Long Halloween, and I have to read Year One first, and The Dark Knight Returns has to be read later because it occurs much later in the chronology..." or something like that. I won't say that's exactly how I was envisioning it, but I don't suppose I was much less clueless.

But once you realize that while you could choose to read a creator's run in its entirety, it is often entirely possible to say, "I just want to read Days of Future Past," or, "I just want to read Superman: Secret Identity," or, "I just want to read Spider-Man: Blue," and you'll get a complete story arc. This makes getting into comics much less daunting than getting into manga, I think.

Boom. nothing hard about American comics at all..

 

[Slayven]

I think superhero comic books are very hard to get into if you didn't get used to them as a kid. They're full of dumb contrived convetions you have to ignore to enjoy them fully and that's not easy thing to learn as adult.

So my advice would be to read non superheroes comic books for a start

He watches Kamen Rider.....shit is the same

 

[Cyan]

I think superhero comic books are very hard to get into if you didn't get used to them as a kid. They're full of dumb contrived convetions you have to ignore to enjoy them fully and that's not easy thing to learn as adult.

So my advice would be to read non superheroes comic books for a start

Conventions, there's the word I was looking for. Superhero comics have certain conventions just as manga do, and if you're accustomed to them they seem normal, and if you aren't they might be confusing. Just as in any genre.

 

[Mudcrab]

I think superhero comic books are very hard to get into if you didn't get used to them as a kid. They're full of dumb contrived convetions you have to ignore to enjoy them fully and that's not easy thing to learn as adult.

Let's be honest here, manga also has "dumb contrived convetions" one gets used, and if you can ignore (or even enjoy!) those then leaning to deal with the equivalent in western comics isn't too hard. Works vice-versa too.