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[Iacobellis]

Good lesson on how valuable anecdotal evidence is.

You're not alone. The Wii was "new", and consoles don't seem to have an everybody appeal anymore. Blame it on tablets.

 

[1st Course]

How come? It's selling much more comparatively in a more competitive market.

You have to remember big reason PS2 sold what it sold because of strong emerging market sales.

Just look at mid/late 2008 PS2 sales:

Europe: 48m
US: 42m
ROWT: 29M
Japan: 21M
Total: 140M

Post-2009 PS2 was still selling millions WW despite being dead in US/EU/Japan. Final numbers PS2 probably sold 40m+ in ROTW.

PS4 outselling PS2 will depends on how it do in emerging markets.

 

[c0de]

I thought that was PC?

What? Are PC gamers paying for it, too, now?

 

[mutatedwombat]

PS4 is on Wii numbers (over PS2) until now but unlike it still didn't released any major exclusives. PS4 will sell way more than 80 million specially if WiiU and XBO doesn't make something that boost permanently their sales (big price drops, buy major publishers).

For this year there are exclusives announced like Uncharted, The Order, Bloodborne, No Man's Sky, Rime, Persona, multiplatform games like Metal Gear, The Witcher 3, Evolve, Batman, AC or The Division and console exclusive from important indies like Devolver, Jonathan Blow or the creators or Dear Esther to name a few.

And for later we also know there's stuff coming from Sony like GT7, a new GoW, TLG and new IPs from Guerrilla, Quantic Dream, Media Molecule, Bend or Sony Japan. Plus other exclusive games like Street Fighter V.

The first year may have been light in terms of exclusives and high quality games, but this won't last. In any case, PS4 sold has a tie ratio of 4.42 games per console, an insane number more typical of mid generation than from a year after release. So maybe you didn't like the game released these year, but the people who owned a PS4 bought an average of more than 4 games.

Wow, 80 million would bring them up to the same level as Steam, which currently has 75 million active* accounts.

* logged in in the last month

 

[c0de]

You have to remember big reason PS2 sold what it sold because of strong emerging market sales.

Just look at mid/late 2008 PS2 sales:

Europe: 48m
US: 42m
ROWT: 29M
Japan: 21M
Total: 140M

Post-2009 PS2 was still selling millions WW despite being dead in US/EU/Japan. Final numbers PS2 probably sold 40m+ in ROTW.

PS4 outselling PS2 will depends on how it do in emerging markets.

More like how long Sony is going to keep it alive in these markets. Add Japan with 21 million which seems to be out of reach for current gen consoles.

 

[MisterR]

I just wanted to chime in and point out some of the disbelief over how many people ACTUALLY have PS+. There was some concerning comments about that earlier in this thread...

...Not everyone thinks PS+ is a bargain, or a great value. There are plenty who think the PS3 was the better console last gen because multiplayer was still free. There's also still a lot of happy PS3 owners in general.

For many across the world, PS+ was never perceived to be the 'value' many Americans believe it to be. Americans pay $60 a year and think they're getting free stuff... The rest of the world looks at it is, "Uh, free stuff? Um, can we have the drugs those guys are sniffing, because you're clearly not getting free stuff... and your value decreases with each and every month that goes by when you're not downloading a game you'd actually want..."

Throwing multiplayer behind a pay wall on the PS4 isn't helping matters of perception around the world, either.

The United States does NOT equal the rest of the world. PS+ was always held with some contempt everywhere else.

So you are the official spokesman for the rest of the world outside of the U.S.

 

[2thepoint]

Unbelievable numbers!

Are these numbers for the entirety of 2014 or as of Jan 5?

 

[Rymuth]

I just wanted to chime in and point out some of the disbelief over how many people ACTUALLY have PS+. There was some concerning comments about that earlier in this thread...

...Not everyone thinks PS+ is a bargain, or a great value. There are plenty who think the PS3 was the better console last gen because multiplayer was still free. There's also still a lot of happy PS3 owners in general.

For many across the world, PS+ was never perceived to be the 'value' many Americans believe it to be. Americans pay $60 a year and think they're getting free stuff... The rest of the world looks at it is, "Uh, free stuff? Um, can we have the drugs those guys are sniffing, because you're clearly not getting free stuff... and your value decreases with each and every month that goes by when you're not downloading a game you'd actually want..."

Throwing multiplayer behind a pay wall on the PS4 isn't helping matters of perception around the world, either.

The United States does NOT equal the rest of the world. PS+ was always held with some contempt everywhere else.

Middle Eastern. Love PS+ and so do my friends across the region.

 

[2thepoint]

I just wanted to chime in and point out some of the disbelief over how many people ACTUALLY have PS+. There was some concerning comments about that earlier in this thread...

...Not everyone thinks PS+ is a bargain, or a great value. There are plenty who think the PS3 was the better console last gen because multiplayer was still free. There's also still a lot of happy PS3 owners in general.

For many across the world, PS+ was never perceived to be the 'value' many Americans believe it to be. Americans pay $60 a year and think they're getting free stuff... The rest of the world looks at it is, "Uh, free stuff? Um, can we have the drugs those guys are sniffing, because you're clearly not getting free stuff... and your value decreases with each and every month that goes by when you're not downloading a game you'd actually want..."

Throwing multiplayer behind a pay wall on the PS4 isn't helping matters of perception around the world, either.

The United States does NOT equal the rest of the world. PS+ was always held with some contempt everywhere else.

I am in Ireland and I truly love PS Plus.

I have an enormous selection of games to choose from, and that list just keeps on growing and getting bigger.

You do not speak for anyone, so can you cut back on the shameful hyperbole?

 

[GHG]

I just wanted to chime in and point out some of the disbelief over how many people ACTUALLY have PS+. There was some concerning comments about that earlier in this thread...

...Not everyone thinks PS+ is a bargain, or a great value. There are plenty who think the PS3 was the better console last gen because multiplayer was still free. There's also still a lot of happy PS3 owners in general.

For many across the world, PS+ was never perceived to be the 'value' many Americans believe it to be. Americans pay $60 a year and think they're getting free stuff... The rest of the world looks at it is, "Uh, free stuff? Um, can we have the drugs those guys are sniffing, because you're clearly not getting free stuff... and your value decreases with each and every month that goes by when you're not downloading a game you'd actually want..."

Throwing multiplayer behind a pay wall on the PS4 isn't helping matters of perception around the world, either.

The United States does NOT equal the rest of the world. PS+ was always held with some contempt everywhere else.

I have friends here in the UAE and back home in the UK who own ps4s and have ps+.

Its not held with contempt by anyone I know.

Maybe this is just your opinion? If so that's ok as nobody can argue how you feel.

 

[cebri.one]

Glad for Sony. They deserve this sales, but this next year, with Bloodborne, Uncharted and the rest is going to be even more impressive

+ probable pricecut for the holidays. If the economy keeps going well in most of the west i expect them to do quite well.

 

[airmangataosenai]

More like how long Sony is going to keep it alive in these markets. Add Japan with 21 million which seems to be out of reach for current gen consoles.

People on this forum need to better educate themselves on this subject better: "ROTW" is and always has been a significant part of the success of the Playstation brand. We have little info on these territories other than the shipment figures Sony gives us but they always have made up a huge portion of their sales, including their handhelds. The Vita is poised to maintain it's lead on the Wii U based almost entirely on sales from emerging markets.

 

[jurec84]

I just wanted to chime in and point out some of the disbelief over how many people ACTUALLY have PS+. There was some concerning comments about that earlier in this thread...

...Not everyone thinks PS+ is a bargain, or a great value. There are plenty who think the PS3 was the better console last gen because multiplayer was still free. There's also still a lot of happy PS3 owners in general.

For many across the world, PS+ was never perceived to be the 'value' many Americans believe it to be. Americans pay $60 a year and think they're getting free stuff... The rest of the world looks at it is, "Uh, free stuff? Um, can we have the drugs those guys are sniffing, because you're clearly not getting free stuff... and your value decreases with each and every month that goes by when you're not downloading a game you'd actually want..."

Throwing multiplayer behind a pay wall on the PS4 isn't helping matters of perception around the world, either.

The United States does NOT equal the rest of the world. PS+ was always held with some contempt everywhere else.

Small central-to-eastern EU country, got the whole PS family and PS+ since the beginning and it's great value for money. I also have a brother and sister with PS4, both with PS+.

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

insane numbers, But shows get the right price point for a console and right performance then it will sell, Also helps having the playstation brand which we all grew up with so didnt need convincing much to switch back from the xbox brand like i and my friends did.

So my question is, With the Order looking delightful, And with Bloodborne out soon, How many PC gamers or even X1 owners will buy the ps4 for Bloodborne? Considering how popular the souls series is.

As one would assume 20 mill ps4's being sold by end of march isnt out of the question.

 

[ConanTheKing]

I gotta jump in and say PSN+ is fantastic value. It's a bit slow on the PS4 at the moment (Still good value) due to the small library of a new console but wait till it gets like the PS3 and you get like 4 games a month, 2 indies and 2 AAA titles.

You'll rarely buy games again, you'll play games you never would have considered buying and be pleasantly surprised, it is amazing.

 

[FDC1]

insane numbers, But shows get the right price point for a console and right performance then it will sell, Also helps having the playstation brand which we all grew up with so didnt need convincing much to switch back from the xbox brand like i and my friends did.

So my question is, With the Order looking delightful, And with Bloodborne out soon, How many PC gamers or even X1 owners will buy the ps4 for Bloodborne? Considering how popular the souls series is.

As one would assume 20 mill ps4's being sold by end of march isnt out of the question.

20M will be reached before Bloodborne release.

 

[Joni]

Wow, 80 million would bring them up to the same level as Steam, which currently has 75 million active* accounts.

* logged in in the last month

It would also still be below Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. It would be really bad if the bestselling console couldn't do better than the worst of the previous generation.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

So my question is, With the Order looking delightful, And with Bloodborne out soon, How many PC gamers or even X1 owners will buy the ps4 for Bloodborne? Considering how popular the souls series is.

Huge bunch of PC gamers are jumping to PS4 when Bloodborne hits, according to the biggest Finnish gaming forum - and the other game is UC4. So it's a sleeper hit/system seller. Somehow people are underestimating its hype, or are just being console warriors (jelly), I don't know.

 

[TomShoe]

Small central-to-eastern EU country, got the whole PS family and PS+ since the beginning and it's great value for money. I also have a brother and sister with PS4, both with PS+.

I have friends here in the UAE and back home in the UK who own ps4s and have ps+.

Its not held with contempt by anyone I know.

Maybe this is just your opinion? If so that's ok as nobody can argue how you feel.

I am in Ireland and I truly love PS Plus.

I have an enormous selection of games to choose from, and that list just keeps on growing and getting bigger.

You do not speak for anyone, so can you cut back on the shameful hyperbole?

Middle Eastern. Love PS+ and so do my friends across the region.

It's a symptom of free games picked by someone else. Not everyone is going to like the games offered, that can't be helped. His friends may have different tastes in games, but it seems like more people are at least neutral on the service than seem to be negative.

 

[Wabba]

Great numbers! what was the last numbers for xbox one?

 

[VicDaMoan03]

Hey developers PS4 ( and Xbone to a lesser extent) are selling really well. Stop making games cross gen with the PS360.

 

[GarciaHotspur]

Great numbers! what was the last numbers for xbox one?

" almost "10 millions shipped on november

 

[FDC1]

Great numbers! what was the last numbers for xbox one?

almost 10M shipped Mid november.

 

[Blobbers]

I just wanted to chime in and point out some of the disbelief over how many people ACTUALLY have PS+. There was some concerning comments about that earlier in this thread...

...Not everyone thinks PS+ is a bargain, or a great value. There are plenty who think the PS3 was the better console last gen because multiplayer was still free. There's also still a lot of happy PS3 owners in general.

For many across the world, PS+ was never perceived to be the 'value' many Americans believe it to be. Americans pay $60 a year and think they're getting free stuff... The rest of the world looks at it is, "Uh, free stuff? Um, can we have the drugs those guys are sniffing, because you're clearly not getting free stuff... and your value decreases with each and every month that goes by when you're not downloading a game you'd actually want..."

Throwing multiplayer behind a pay wall on the PS4 isn't helping matters of perception around the world, either.

The United States does NOT equal the rest of the world. PS+ was always held with some contempt everywhere else.

I foresee a PM in your inbox soon because you obviously have some mad numbers.

Share, share.

 

[Conduit]

Great numbers! what was the last numbers for xbox one?

Sold trough @ that time??? Maybe 8 mil.

 

[NEO0MJ]

So tell me what are the "middleground" games then. I've thought they're the "indies" like it has been for 30 years now. Games like No Man's Sky, Remember Me, Journey, Rime, FEZ and so on.

I already said in my post that some high budget indie games are middleground but they're not the standard. All the ones you mentioned are some of those high budget indie games.

 

[thuway]

Just a question, but when does MS officially release "sold through" numbers?

 

[bombshell]

5 Million since Sept. Great numbers. I think they can hit 35 Million WW at the end of 2015.

13.5 at the end of September was shipped, so it's more than 5 million since then because this new number is sold through.

 

[FDC1]

Just a question, but when does MS officially release "sold through" numbers?

they likely won't anytime soon

 

[Grinchy]

Everyone keeps replying to the "expert" on Americans. You'll find a lot of those around here.

I guess he has a point, though. Those idiots in Guyana don't realize that the games that come from their subscription come at the cost of the subscription. Come on, Guyana. Stop being such typical stupid Americans. You too, Suriname.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

I already said in my post that some high budget indie games are middleground but they're not the standard. All the ones you mentioned are some of those high budget indie games.

Thus being the current middleground. There's no spinning in this. Current middleground are the indie games. Sony has them covered.

 

[Xando]

Just a question, but when does MS officially release "sold through" numbers?

Only when they want to. They usually report shipped numbers at the earningsreport, sometimes xb1 only sometimes 360 + X1.

 

[thuway]

they likely won't anytime soon

Is there any official event or time where they have to answer for the sales? Perhaps an earnings call?

 

[Rymuth]

It's a symptom of free games picked by someone else. Not everyone is going to like the games offered, that can't be helped. His friends may have different tastes in games, but it seems like more people are at least neutral on the service than seem to be negative.

He never talked about his 'friends'

He said the everywhere else i.e the whole world, has contempt for PS+.

 

[FDC1]

Is there any official event or time where they have to answer for the sales? Perhaps an earnings call?

financial results only include shipped numbers

 

[Mpl90]

What was ROTW's supposed share on overall PS4 sales the last time we had an update about sell-through numbers? Anyone?

*lights SwiftDeath's signal*

 

[AnthonypUK]

Just a question, but when does MS officially release "sold through" numbers?

When they are winning? so not this gen


we'll get "shipped - Xbox family" numbers at the earnings call.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Thus being the current middleground.

Yeah but like I said they're not the standard. For every Journey and Skullgirls you have ten Nidhogg and Retro City Rampage. Not bad games at all but hardly on the level of something like No man's Sky.

 

[spwolf]

Small central-to-eastern EU country, got the whole PS family and PS+ since the beginning and it's great value for money. I also have a brother and sister with PS4, both with PS+.

I am prolly ur neighbor and everyone I know thinks ps+ is fantastic value... Games here are very expensive so getting "free" games monthly for €4 is considered cheapo. These subscription services have a good chance to get eastern Europeans to spend more on games

 

[AnthonypUK]

Yeah but like I said they're not the standard. For every Journey and Skullgirls you have ten Nidhogg and Retro City Rampage. Not bad games at all but hardly on the level of something like No man's Sky.

Thats a bit premature on the No Mans sky front, since noones played it.

 

[kruis]

almost 10M shipped Mid november.

That number probably includes all the Xbone consoles pre-ordered by retailers for the entire holiday season (including December).

 

[c0de]

People on this forum need to better educate themselves on this subject better: "ROTW" is and always has been a significant part of the success of the Playstation brand. We have little info on these territories other than the shipment figures Sony gives us but they always have made up a huge portion of their sales, including their handhelds. The Vita is poised to maintain it's lead on the Wii U based almost entirely on sales from emerging markets.

Yes, ROW is definitely quite big for Sony and was always. Question is why.
Does Sony just sell the PS brand in way more countries than the competition? What is known about in which all 3 sell their consoles?

 

[Cornbread78]

" almost "10 millions shipped on november

10 million sold NPD announcement incoming.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Can't believe I missed this.

PS4 is in an extremely strong position right now. They have room for a price-cut this year, the line-up is hugely better this year compared to last, and they still shifted over 18m.

I would go as far to say their position is unassailable at this point.

 

[FDC1]

What was ROTW's supposed share on overall PS4 sales the last time we had an update about sell-through numbers? Anyone?

*lights SwiftDeath's signal*

If by ROTW, you mean everything outside North America, Europe and Japan, that's very hard to say.

USA is somewhere between 6~6.5M
Japan is close to 1M
UK is between 1.5~2M
Germany and France are each over 1M

That's already at least 11M

Spain + Italy must represent 1M too

Add 1 to 2M for Rest of Europe.

 

[thuway]

That number probably includes all the Xbone consoles pre-ordered by retailers for the entire holiday season (including December).

WHAT O_O ??? Seriously?

 

[mutatedwombat]

Huge bunch of PC gamers are jumping to PS4 when Bloodborne hits, according to the biggest Finnish gaming forum - and the other game is UC4. So it's a sleeper hit/system seller. Somehow people are underestimating its hype, or are just being console warriors (jelly), I don't know.

A lot of PC gamers will buy PS4s, but they won't sell their PCs to do it. They aren't crazy!

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Yeah but like I said they're not the standard. For every Journey and Skullgirls you have ten Nidhogg and Retro City Rampage. Not bad games at all but hardly on the level of something like No man's Sky.

That's why I said there's underground as well. From AAA-esque indies to the underground 8-bit pixel quizz games. Sony has it all. So they have the middleground covered. It's just really ignorant to say "there's no middleground" because there is, and has always been: the middleground is indie gaming.

The whole gaming industry started as "indie gaming", we're living in a reneissance of sorts at the moment. You can create AAA games with only few thousand dollars, that is the middleground. People are capable and people are willing to create these masterpieces. And I love it.

"But indies are not games". I don't think Call of Duties are games, but apparently the sales figures are all that matters. Go figure.

 

[Xando]

If by ROTW, you mean everything outside North America, Europe and Japan, that's very hard to say.

USA is somewhere between 6~6.5M
Japan is close to 1M
UK is between 1.5~2M
Germany and France are each over 1M

That's already at least 11M

Spain + Italy must represent 1M too

Add 1 to 2M for Rest of Europe.

If i remember right germany was supposed to hit 1.5 million by the end of 2014.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

A lot of PC gamers will buy PS4s, but they won't sell their PCs to do it. They aren't crazy!

Did I say anything like that? Every gamer has a PC, at least here in Finland, and a console on the side. PC gamers have been waiting to get an excuse to buy the PS4 and Bloodborne seems to be just that excuse.