I would like to see more moe characters in anme who are strong and "mature".
- Thread starter HolyBaikal
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entremet
Member
Basically lol.
The Omega Man
Member
incoming 50 posts from the OP where he/she apologizes or blame posters of being mean
I keep meaning to finish off Space Brothers. I heard it was ending and decided to wait for the last batch to come out, then forgot about it. I've heard good things about HxH, and I'll take a look into Parasyte. Thanks.
I forgot, there is an incident of moe's existance I'm okay with. Madoka, only because it's setting you up for the fall - and boy is it a thunderous fall.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Watch/read Type Moon stuff then. A lot of their female characters fit the more descriptor but are strong and mature
I think the only real problem was that you posted on gaf, which from what I've seen is a very not moe loving place.
Personally I would have to agree with you op. Moe (at this point) is something that is kinda here to stay, and while I think it's gotten a bit better in recent seasons, I think there could be more mature or empowering cuteness.
This thread will diverge (if it hasn't already) into a discussion of "why moe" or "moe is evil" or a question of what anime itself should be (which is a stupid statement to make for an art form)j
InfiniteBento
Member
I don't mind moe characters
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╭HolyBaikal
Banned
I don't know if that's a half joke, or what it is.
But a lot of people do like moe, that's why it's so successful.
But there is a very vocal group of people it seems like who don't like it.
I'm not sure why all of it is, but trying to understand it... I don't know why everyone doesn't like moe. And I guess different people have different people have different reasons. But.. a lot of people don't seem to like it because it seems too feminine and they don't value femininity as much as masculinity.
Here is an example of Moe (the poster on the wall, not the dude)
Are you implying Travis isn't moe?
HolyBaikal
Banned
When people reacted violently against things like anime or moe, it feels like to me that maybe the reason they feel that way is that they see it as being too feminine.
We do live in a society that femininity isn't as valued as masculinity...
There needs to be a shounen anime where all the bad characters are moe, and the main cast is more realistic like cowboy bebop or something. It revolves on them trying to stamp out the moe plague.
You project A LOT.
You project A LOT.
Aquamarine
Member
i'd fund that
yeah that must be it. guess i'm just a big ol' tea party sexist bigot.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I.. don't think I am? I hope not. I really don't know why, to be honest. I've tried understanding, but that's the best hypothesis I've come up with.
If that's not the reason, maybe I can learn something.
chicagocubsfan
Member
C'mon man. My favorite Ghibli movie is Whisper of the Heart, and that's pretty damn feminine. Moe just doesn't do it for me.
Isn't Sakura (From Card Captor, not Tsubasa) moe?
Then again, she's not child-like -- she's a child. though a strong one.
this whole moe thing though... even as an anime fan, it makes me feel like I'd be stepping into otaku territory... the ones yelling moe, fetishising child-like characters with erotic themes, or falling in love with stuff a la densha otoko
Then again, she's not child-like -- she's a child. though a strong one.
this whole moe thing though... even as an anime fan, it makes me feel like I'd be stepping into otaku territory... the ones yelling moe, fetishising child-like characters with erotic themes, or falling in love with stuff a la densha otoko
Aquamarine
Member
Think it'd fit really well with Gainax.
teruterubozu
Member
lol. Ah yes, the "benign to a fault" forum character.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Tarou is the most moe character in Shirobako and look how that turned out
It has to do with tone. Moe is fine for a lighthearted anime. Something like lucky star or potamayo would be infinitely worse without that moe aspect, that said, it really doesn't have much place in more "serious" anime.
The big problem is that a lot of people lump both together and state it as "anime is being ruined by it" when in reality we still get the steins;gates and the hunterxhunter's (and pingpong) which don't have moe characterizations.
I think that when people talk about moe stuff in anime, there tends to be too much in the way of miscommunication and misunderstanding.
But that's just my 2 cents
Edit: I think people should check out madoka magica if they think strong and moe are antithesis of each other.
WickedLaharl
Member
The ocd is real.
depths20XX
Member
Another HolyBaikal thread.
"Blah blah cringeworthy crap, blah blah I'm so sorry everyone!"
"Blah blah cringeworthy crap, blah blah I'm so sorry everyone!"
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
I'm all for better, stronger female representation in anime. I'm not, however, really a fan of Moe at all and find it to be rather tacky. To each their own.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I guess I don't belong here and I should stop posting. At least for a while. ;_;
Feel free to post, you just might wanna rein in your obsession a bit.
Aquamarine
Member
HolyBaikal
Banned
nhlducks35
Member
I dunno
lol
Spider from Mars
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The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Having not read the thread except for the OP I think it gets back to the exact same heart of the other question: what is moe? Without a clean definition this is kind of hard to talk about, but by the same token having a clean definition might actually be impossible. It appears to be a series of affectations that some people find appealing, but are those affectations able to be integrated with traits and themes that are seemingly at odds with them?
To pull on one thing specifically: if the characters are mature and able to take care of themselves, what's moe about them? Is it literally just the aesthetics at that point? How do the childish aesthetics and affectations work within the context of that maturity? And even if you could do something subversive and artistic with that, would it appeal to the kind of people who find those affectations appealing now?
I don't think they're irreconcilable by any means. But I wonder what it would serve and how much you could do with it.
To pull on one thing specifically: if the characters are mature and able to take care of themselves, what's moe about them? Is it literally just the aesthetics at that point? How do the childish aesthetics and affectations work within the context of that maturity? And even if you could do something subversive and artistic with that, would it appeal to the kind of people who find those affectations appealing now?
I don't think they're irreconcilable by any means. But I wonder what it would serve and how much you could do with it.
I really don't see how someone asking for a more mature and better representation of women in moe anime (as in not just cute fluff) is a cringeworthy.
If anything it's an interesting topic.
You're fine. People here are just butts.
I plan on making videos relating to anime (reviews and whatnot) I hope you don't mind if I do a video on this very topic eventually
I think both this thread and your previous thread are hinting at a desire for anime to crawl out of the myriad of tropes that it's stuck in right now. I don't blame you for thinking that at all. Or, you could be wanting anime to appeal to a broader audience because you're frustrated with people having such a negative reaction to something you like very much. This is also valid.
However, I think both threads are also hinting that you might want to look outside of anime for different kinds of storytelling.
Also, for the record, I don't think people are against "moe" culture purely due to accusations of sexism or because it has a feminine tone, it's that the characters look so young.
However, I think both threads are also hinting that you might want to look outside of anime for different kinds of storytelling.
Also, for the record, I don't think people are against "moe" culture purely due to accusations of sexism or because it has a feminine tone, it's that the characters look so young.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Doesn't have anything to do with femininity or masculinity. I personally dislike it because a) it encourages the infantilization of those who engage in the medium, and b) it frequently sexualizes that infantilization, which is unavoidably creepy. The overwhelming impression I get from people who engage in moe media is that they are seriously lacking in emotional maturity, and a substantial subset harbours rather unhealthy attitudes towards pre-teen girls.
TatteredHat
Member
The general consensus is that moe characters are the exact opposite of mature and strong, however there are tons of anime with strong and mature characters outside of the moe genre.
Angelus Errare
Banned
萌える - To sprout, to budd, to have a newly formed attraction, a crush in it's infant stages.
Not sure how there can be mature moe and still be "moe".
Not sure how there can be mature moe and still be "moe".
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
From my understanding of what moe is (though I'm certainly NOT an expert) you seem to have contradictory desires. Sounds like you would be best served by diversifying and learning to appreciate some other styles of anime and entertainment. When you have an obsession with a niche category of an already niche form of entertainment I think it's likely you will always have some dissatisfaction when your crave something different.
John Kowalski
Banned
.Master Anno said:
Moe characters are meant to not be strong and mature. The entire point is to be jerk off fantasies for those looking for pure, cute, and weak girls who need the protection unquestionably of a male.
Any girl who is independent, strong, and can have an actual opinion is'nt moe. The entire point of moe is having female characters who are self reliant and subservient to a male. Either the viewer or the in universe male.
That's why it's so god awful all this waifu and moe bullshit. Moe fans don't want actual female characters. They want cute things who are nothing but cute and shitty.
Any girl who is independent, strong, and can have an actual opinion is'nt moe. The entire point of moe is having female characters who are self reliant and subservient to a male. Either the viewer or the in universe male.
That's why it's so god awful all this waifu and moe bullshit. Moe fans don't want actual female characters. They want cute things who are nothing but cute and shitty.
depths20XX
Member
How is it interesting? Isn't moe inherently NOT mature. If you want better representation of women and something more mature I would just advice someone to not watch moe shit.
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