D3RANG3D
Member
It sounds interesting.
avatar quote.
Well I tried to look for it on amazon all I got back was some yaoi.
I would like to see more moe characters in anme who are strong and "mature".
- Thread starter HolyBaikal
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It sounds interesting.
avatar quote.
Well I tried to look for it on amazon all I got back was some yaoi.
Owlowiscious
Member
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Oh, I read the OP, but the thread is a bit long.
But I feel like there is still dissent about what moe is to a lot of you, anyway? From the last few pages, at least
I meant to say that anime moe characters are not something I like, is all. I consciously avoid it.
Why does it matter to you how a poster define moe though? I do not belong to any tinfoil conspiracies about any cultures... I donno how that bit got in there. Im just a girl who cant enjoy as much anime and mangas as I used to when I was younger cuz there's this trend of misrepresentation of my gender everywhere. Im sure some women writers are also involved in the whole thing, too. And my voice isnt the end-all-be-all of whats wrong with moe. Just saying that it's not for me and that I make swift judgement inwardly against anyone that likes it.
But, Im game for discussion and I try to have an open mind.
I havent been familiar with a lot of moe context, but I am familiar with the Elin race in TERA online. Isnt that an example of a moe representation?
Tell me why do the moe fanbase condone childlike looking characters to have their underwear shots displayed?
In any case, educate me, senpai-sama ;___;
or maybe i am part of the illuminati. kufufufufu~
That's not true. There is moe in appearance and moe in actions. Technically the action part should mean it's not possible but I can give you two examples why it doesn't matter.
The first is comedy. When someone makes a joke about a dead person in a comedy it is funny in the context of that show. Try to deliver that same joke in regards to someone who actually died and you will run the risk of you coming across as a jackass depending on how close the recipient was to the deceased.
The second is related to the idea of moe in appearance. Humans have a tendency of looking at subjects a different way depending on how they look. That's why a study last year revealed a tendency for people who identify themselves as not black are more likely to view black children 3-5 years older than they are after age 10. As a result when a crime occurs they are more predisposed to seeing such children as less innocent while white children are seen as even more innocent.
Source (start reading at page 6)
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf
So by designing characters as moe certain type of artists (I would guess most are cynical) are intentionally trying to distract their audience from the fact these characters are doing things way beyond their perceived age range.
A very good example of a moe anime that turned out be a very good mature show on par with Death Note, FUll Metal Alchemist is "Puella Magi Madoka Magica"
I strongly recommend watching the first 3 eipsodes since the first one needs you to watch the entire series to make sense of why it happened but it is the next 2 where you can determine whether or not you can tolerate the style it has going for itself.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
HolyBaikal
Banned
Noooooooo. :<
I just think that too many people care too much about too many things about "adulthood" that aren't really that important. Like having children and being married and having a white collar job and thingies like that.
I think that workplace equality is very important.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
... Not sure how wanting to provide for your family is a 'thingie' that are not really important...
Also, I giggle at the quotation marks :> "Adulthood" Oooooh~
... I donno, you seem to be a bit too obsessed with the idea of "Innocence Lost". Let it go~ Let it go~ etc.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Yeah. That's the sense I got too. Just when you think you're having a conversation and making a breakthrough, people begin taking the topic everywhere just to win some non-existent argument. I'm beginning to think we need an "adult" and "children" member tag on GAF so you can know when you're talking to someone worthy.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I think that people being able to help and take care of others is important.
But I think there are some expectations and ideas of adulthood that aren't very healthy or helpful. When I said white collar, I was thinking in terms of social status, not being able to help others.
I believe in the philosophy, "it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice."
Chairmanchuck
Member
Isnt the definition of a moe character that they somehow posses the exact opposite of these traits?
Artofwar420
Member
You are a bit naive. You can't help others if you don't have at least some clout to do that, be that economic or social. And since we live in a culture (most of us anyway) that is based on networking and having purchasing power, pretending "being nice" is the currency will not get you very far.
pants
Member
No. The way you guys use the word 'moe' is much closer to meaning Yamato Nadeshiko (closer) than moe
HolyBaikal
Banned
Well, I do kind of want that, yes. I have a lot of criticisms of moe, even as a fan of them. Just like a lot of people have feminist criticisms of video games, even though they're a fan of them.
As well, as a fan of moe who is really passionate about, I want to support it and help it be critically improved. I can agree with many of the criticisms people make of moe. And I would be happy to see it improve. But I can't give up moe.
I want to do whatever I can to help and support moe. And if that means lessening some of the many problems in moe, I'm very okay with that. A lot of the problems in moe bother me, too.
The things with moe that are wrong, really really upset me and make me very upset. Like how Haruhi would grope Mikuru. And how submissive Mikuru was. I don't like that kind of moe, and it really bothers me. And there are so many examples like that. And it makes me enjoy anime less. I'm very outward about it because some things really bother and upset me on a very deep level, of something I would otherwise love so much. I even think I upset people a lot in the NekoPara thread with my beliefs about something things about moe or anime or something like that.
But I think why I made this thread is that I want to do my best to support and help moe. To be something more about cuteness and happiness and empathy and sensitivity and femininity. Rather than something that's cruel to women and female characters.
GrandHarrier
Member
Moe is the girl in Macross series that I fucking hate and thankfully a trope that tends to get subverted in them.
Fuck you Ranka. Sheryl is superior waifu.
Fuck you Ranka. Sheryl is superior waifu.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Well, it's a little presumptuous to bunch white collar people into a bunch of social status climbers. I'm sure a lot of them are doing their jobs to provide for their families and not to puff their chests up.
And I think it's nice that people want to do so. Like, real nice, not just some fluffy niceness nicety idea of nicenice. Like, for example, sometimes it's 'nice' not to say blunt words but sometimes it is much nicer to be honest with some people. Both are types of niceness... Promoting only one idea of niceness is kinda skewed. Soft nice isn't always the best approach.
:3
HolyBaikal
Banned
That was kind of vulgar and mean. :/
I like some things about Ranka Lee more, and some things about Sheryl Nome more. But overall I liked Ranka Lee more.
Though my favourite girl or woman female character from Macross Frontier was Klan Klan. I just wish she wasn't a boobservice character in her giant form. I would love watch a show about a character like her.
I like some things about Ranka Lee more, and some things about Sheryl Nome more. But overall I liked Ranka Lee more.
Though my favourite girl or woman female character from Macross Frontier was Klan Klan. I just wish she wasn't a boobservice character in her giant form. I would love watch a show about a character like her.
Okusan is too cute.
HolyBaikal
Banned
B-But I wasn't saying that. ._.
I was saying that being worried about social status or having a family doesn't make you mature. And it should be okay to represent mature characters with that.
You can be mature and work at a bakery. You don't have to be a CEO or want to be a CEO to be mature. And you don't have to be married or be in a relationship or have children to be mature.
GrandHarrier
Member
-Snip-
I've just always loved how Macross subverted the tropes in really interesting ways. I mean, for as goofy as it is, I loved the fact that Macross 7 did so particularly well: The main character, Basara and the expected Moe' character, Mylene never actually hook up and the fantasy couple from the previous series, Max and Miriya, were a separated couple that had a realistic and conflicted relationship.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Are you trying to pretend slap me? That's rude and not nice. :<
GrandHarrier
Member
Not at all. Just a silly Minmei gif. Removed it because it wasn't the point of my post.
smileyforall220
Member
One of the problems that moe brought forward, was that it flattened characters. Generally speaking creating characters with this moe mindset, depth and variety(and the ability for strong female characters like outlaw star) had been removed in the place of formulaic feminine caricatures, which I think has ruined anime for the most part from an art form that could compete with film, to taking a seat with mass produced cheapness that panders to extreme tastes.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
Cheap cash-in will always be cheap cash-in, with or without moe. Even if moe never exit, they would just use another generic pandering archetype.
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