Stereogatari
Banned
Agreed, no argument there. ND never definitely said 60fps was happening anyway.
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Naughty Dog won't push Uncharted 4 to 60fps if it compromises player experience
- Thread starter Slowdive
- Start date
Agreed, no argument there. ND never definitely said 60fps was happening anyway.
Cornbread78
Member
It's Naughty Dog. If I remember right, one of the TLOU documentaries should them making sure TLOU would run at 30FPS on PS3 and it had a 60fps hit marker there.
I'm sure on this hardware, if they are still a year out really, there will be a load of optimisation done. The game is already at around 37fps.
I'd expect them to do their best. If they can't that's fine but I'm sure they'll try.
I'm sure on this hardware, if they are still a year out really, there will be a load of optimisation done. The game is already at around 37fps.
I'd expect them to do their best. If they can't that's fine but I'm sure they'll try.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
It's never going to be 60 fps, and it doesn't need to as tight, responsive and quick gameplay is not exactly the core of a nice Uncharted experience.
Oh it's one of those original "has no gameplay" posts, you're fucking hilarious! Generic blonde anime girl avatar must be so proud of you.
Are you familiar with the concept of 'confirmation bias'?
"tiring effect on my eyes", really now...
really
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
But it's still the same game. Still waiting for what "better" is. If by better you mean runs faster then yeah I agree.
Problem with that line of argument is that not everything conducive to better gameplay is about input response. The input response from a well designed locked 30fps is more than sufficient. We're talking a fraction of a second input delay here.
However, some of the things that going 30fps allows could be argued to be just as important to the overall gameplay experience, if not more so. Things such as larger and more complex environments, more NPC's, better physics, better graphics and effects that increase immersion and all the rest.
Driveclub is actually a good example of this. The sort of visuals and weather effects we're getting in the game are likely a no go on the console at 60fps, but absolutely add to the overall gameplay experience, in-fact, they are paramount to it. The volumetric clouds constantly affecting visibility and track conditions, the lighting and the way it interacts to the environments, the physics based rain and water collation on windscreens etc, the number of snow particles, the way they move around or are illuminated and so on and so on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrti17fCDmw
Ninja Gaiden Black, Forza Motorsport series, most fighting games just off the top of my head. I'd bet that Halo 5 will continue the tradition of well done AI. Most console games aren't 60fps though, so its a pretty small pool to pick from, but I think the ones I mentioned are enough to show that it obviously can be done. Hell, you can look at a game like Battlefield 4 and see that its got a LOT of intensive physics-based stuff going on, yet it still runs 60fps while looking pretty good in the process.
Do you really think that Uncharted 4 is going to feature ground breaking AI or something?
Another good example.
And if Uncharted takes these things to new heights, then I'll concede they didn't do it all for the pretty. I'm quite sceptical that will be the case, though.
vpance
Member
First Light ran a better than the regular game which made unlocked even more enjoyable. Playing around with the 30 FPS lock on it looked nice and cinematic
But I like having that extra smooth camera pan too much to keep it on. Gameplay wise Im not sure how much an effect it really has though. At the end of the day it's not a fighter or DMC or anything like that. Of course, it would feel better, at least perceptually.
? But it did, I switched between the two options and 30fps felt noticeably bad to look at compared to 60. I had the same reaction when going back to GTAV on ps3 after the ps4 remaster.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
Can it not be at something inbetween 30 and 60 and work? like um lets say 50 fps.
perineumlick
Member
If TLoU would have been a shit game at 30fps, 60fps wouldn't have made it better. Frame rate wasn't the reason for it's greatness.
I mean the gameplay is improved by 60fps because moving, turning the camera, aiming, are all improved because they feel far smoother.
Err... pretty sure you misinterpreted his post.
Not that that really excuses the tone of the rest of your post, but just FYI
MGSV.
Well yes, I am a fan of 60 fps gaming and I probably would have bought a PS4 for a 60 fps Uncharted game.
It does depend on the game. For example, I still thoroughly enjoy Zelda ocarina of time, since the gamplay revolves around its low frame rate. It is an inherently slow game, with slow moving enemies requiring slower responses with mechanics to suit
It might not be before, but that demo was amazing, the way they incorporated the encounters with the vertical level design that the Uncharted theme and settings allow was top notch, it's exactly what many people who had a problem with the series' campaigns wanted.
That said, any encounter from Uncharted 3 at 60fps still wouldn't be a "tight gameplay experience" compared to the encounter we've seen from Uncharted 4, so there's that.
I agree with you that 30fps is "ok" for this game, but I strongly disagree with this idea that 30fps is ok because the gameplay is nothing special. That was one of the best encounters I've seen from any third person shooter. It reminded me of Crysis, which is my favorite FPS campaign (at least the first half)
No but not ALL could make the cut with the allocated resource and budget. The demo and articles already published have shown they are, far wider areas of play, open level design and path choice, world physics and improved AI both from enemies and as yet unseen Sam co-op play in the game, I would say they are aiming for exactly that.
It is still early days with the hardware, software not to mention resource allocation. But the single biggest thing is time, with the best part of a year to finish off and having a game that (I assume they meant) does not dip below/hovers around 37 then a ton can happen in that time to improve the performance (infact most likely time for it to happen as optimising is always last on the schedule) even if quick wins like lesser quality shadows or more aggressive LOD.
jmaine_ph
Member
While I don't doubt Kojima, that game isn't out yet.
It's also 200+ peoples work that need optimising. Maybe the engine guys can find a magical piece of code that makes everything run 2-3x faster, but it usually doesn't work that way. For a project of this size it'll take an immense amount of work and attention to detail to optimise and keep a steady frame rate. And the PSX build probably wasn't just a random repository grab; there's tons of polish that goes into demos like that to make it run as well as it did.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I wouldn't say that the AI in MGSV is complex. Definitely not when on normal mode if GZ is any indication. It definitely doesn't seem to have the complexity of the AI like in F.E.A.R.
I think whenever people hear 30fps they think of a sub 30fps game. However locked 30fps is playable and is appealing to the eyes. Of course 60fps is preferable but for a game like uncharted where visuals is a huge part of the franchise, i think 30fps with better visuals is more desirable.
Dictator93
Member
I am pretty sure the volumetric clouds in that game are for distance clouds, and then the camera level fog is done differently.
As a quick example, in the PSX demo the enemy pathfinding and traversal seemed to be pretty well done. How much of it was canned is up for debate, however.
How is that relevant though? The Last of Us was good on PS3, then the PS4 version made it great. Even if you think it was great on PS3 it was still even greater on PS4.
Then for a game with as much aiming and shooting as Uncharted the impact will be even bigger than it was for TLoU. Hopefully we get an option as it's best case scenario.
quickwhips
Member
You though the trailer was 60fps?
GrizzleBoy
Banned
There are people, real life people who believed this would be 60fps?
Come on now....
Come on now....
Uncharted 4 isn't sporting complex AI either, and there's lots of subsystems going in MGSV, as well as enemy back up like choppers and vehicles, plus the variable weather, and an active day/night cycle, plus it's open world.
MGSV will be the outlier though because the graphics already take a hit due to the cross gen status of the game and it's focusing on performance first.
Jesus Christ.
I hope all the 60 FPS die hards just don't pick up U4 since it doesn't meet their "gameplay smoothness" standards.
In fact I wonder what third person shooters some play with the majority of them at a locked 30 on console. As for me I can't wait to get this bad boy inside my PS4.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
NeoGaf Believe...
How exactly? The PSX demo was already 30hz.
vpance
Member
Is it really complex though? That kind of stuff was around since MGS2.
People are mistakenly correlating scripted behaviors and triggers as something super demanding and advanced I think.
onken
Member
Very disappointing but true.
e~ what is WAY worse is everyone defending this. Talk about Stockholm syndrome...
Well I truly do hope that the game makes some worthwhile non-visual improvements that improve the experience if they do indeed decide to go 30fps. I'd love for Uncharted to be a game that is not only pretty, but also fun to play.
Omnistalgic
Member
how about a choice with less graphical effects at 60 to please fans?
Or maybe multi-player only at 60?
Hmmmm, to me doesn't matter that much, gameplay looked crazy smooth, and DC is proof that 30fps can be done right.
Or maybe multi-player only at 60?
Hmmmm, to me doesn't matter that much, gameplay looked crazy smooth, and DC is proof that 30fps can be done right.
GZ is out right now, you can try it.
It just needs to be more complex than UC's to make the argument. And it is.
Look, i am a PS player too, two of my most anticipated games are P5 and Bloodborne, but it's not the first time ND fails to deliver stuff they were pimping before, they ain't really 'Gods' you know.
Nop, GZ's gameplay is nothing like 2,3 or 4's. Same basis, but advancing each iteration.
And i know how AI works, trust me, and it can be pretty demanding, but mostly i was replying to a post saying that you can't find a 60fps game with complex AI. Apparently you can.
During races you can actually see the clouds move around above you, constantly changing in volume or shape, and immediately changing the lighting around you and the entire level. For example, sometimes a cloud will move over above you, and cast a shadow or darker hue over your surroundings, or the visible track ahead of you and so on. The great thing about the clouds in Driveclub is that the sort of lighting and shadows they deliver changes based on the type of cloud, it's relation to the sun and so on. A much more complex and rich implementation than any other game I've experienced.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
There are a lot of AI routines and "states" that interrupt their normal routines, like being told to search. Remains to be seen how they truly are. MGSZ does a really neat trick of convincing the player that every enemy in the base has their own schedule.
True, I see your point, P.S. I don't think i've ever said naughty gods on this forum.
Beer Monkey
Member
So far 60fps this gen looks like 60fps of last gen's 30fps games anyway.
Totally agree!
Yes unless there's thousands of enemies, or you're doing something really wrong, enemy AI really shouldn't be a bottleneck in a third person action game.
that should still have nearly no effect on performance. They're following simple state machines (though maybe slightly more complex than in most games) and every now and then they will perform a pathfinding/search operation or some more demanding checks, but they're not doing any complex CPU intensive simulations each frame. Good AI in an action games pretty much comes down to bells and whistles