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[phanphare]

Targeting and achieving are two completely separate things. Watch the TLoU doc for a quick glimpse of what they want to achieve and what they know they can feasibly achieve with what they have to work with.

it's like they realize that 60fps is unobtainable based on the game they want to make. Weird right?

for sure, but perhaps they shouldn't have misspoken in the first place. Naughty Dog is a great development studio and I guess I just took their word for it.

it's honestly not a big deal that the game won't be 60fps. Uncharted isn't a series known for its gameplay so a locked 30fps won't really hinder the experience at all. I'm more taken aback that Naughty Dog would make that claim and then not deliver on it. is that something they do a lot? I haven't really followed them for that long.

 

[Weeaboosuke]

Just lock that shit down, ND.

 

[OverturePT]

Maybe everyone should just make simple side scrolling platformers then.

It's not about making simple sidescrollers or simple cinematic adventures, it's about compromising some stuff (graphical fidelity) in favor of something else (framerate). Some people prefer framerate to a few other graphical effects. It's also funny how a lot of people were salivating and amazed at the PS4 when NG mentioned the 60fps target but now they act like it was a given that the game would end up at 30fps. It's actually a bit funny reading these threads.

 

[Javin98]

So I guess most posters in this thread are conveniently ignoring the massive improvements in God Of War 3 from E3 demo to release, huh?

Oh, and those "PS5 re-release" jokes are not funny in the least bit

 

[revimack]

The run above 30/lock at 30 setup is extremely common to console games. Most 30fps titles would run at 35-45fps if their 30fps vsync lock was removed.

It is very likely that U4 will ship at 30fps. It would be pretty odd for ND to turn around and produce a 60fps game given the game's current framerate and Straley's statements. I'm guessing that the FPS downgrade indicates development problems.

 

[SniperHunter]

the last two uncharted games ran at a stable 30 FPS and I had no problems with them.

of course 60 FPS would be awesome, but I can live with 30 FPS

 

[Dragonborn]

Make it 30 FPS with amazing graphics.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

60 fps only on HD Remake for PS5.

Uncharted Ultra HD Collection, Fall 2020. I can wait.

 

[Mr Ed]

I can see this go 30fps single player and 60fps multiplayer. Either way, i don't really care. Uncharted 2 is in my top 5 and that was 30fps. 30fps is good, anything above is a bonus.

 

[Servbot24]

Maybe everyone should just make simple side scrolling platformers then.

Not sure if this is supposed to be satirical, but these are the kinds of posts that make the hardcore 60fps crowd look completely insane. There's more to video games than 60fps, and it's genuinely sad that some people get so stuck on it.

 

[StevieP]

Bit bold of you, care to explain how it was a lie?

There was a thread where people picked up on what was downgraded already, but do you recall the framerate? I know I do.

 

[daveo42]

for sure, but perhaps they shouldn't have misspoken in the first place. Naughty Dog is a great development studio and I guess I just took their word for it.

it's honestly not a big deal that the game won't be 60fps. Uncharted isn't a series known for its gameplay so a locked 30fps won't really hinder the experience at all. I'm more taken aback that Naughty Dog would make that claim and then not deliver on it. is that something they do a lot? I haven't really followed them for that long.

I don't think they ever made a claim to hit 60fps. Their debut trailer did run at 60fps, but it was a cutscene being rendered on a PS4, not live gameplay. Their goal since then was to try and hit 60fps, but they never came out and said that it would definitely, absolutely run at 60fps. Thus the reason for my targeting comment, that suggest that ND wanted to push the hardware as hard as possible while also delivering a high level of graphical fidelity. Not being able to lock in a hard 60 means they have to pull it back to 30 and push for a constant framerate over one that is all over the board.

Based on the info out there about the game, I don't believe they ever misspoke about the framerate, just their want and desire to try and hit 60fps.

Would be really be having the same conversation if ND decided to come out and downgrade the visuals so the game would run at a smooth 60fps?

 

[Danielsan]

Getting really tired of the whole 60fps or bust nonsense. I'll gladly take 30fps locked with more graphical bells and whistles / better a.i over 60fps. Never had a problem with 30fps on the previous Uncharted games, or any other third person shooter for that matter.

Don't like 30 fps? Don't buy a console. If you expected 60fps for this console generation then you've made quite the mistake.

 

[DirtyLarry]

I've enjoyed many games at 30 FPS.
I have enjoyed many games at 60 FPS.
I have also enjoyed many games at higher than 60 FPS.

Are higher frames preferred if and when they are possible? Sure.
Are games unplayable if they are only 30 FPS? Absolutely not.
If they were, that would mean the majority of console games released over the years are filed under unplayable, which is just simply not the case.

If 60 FPS is your defacto standard for the absolute minimum amount of frames you need to enjoy a videogame, just make life easy for yourself and get a PC and be done with it. Granted you will not get to play a game like Uncharted 4 as it is a console exclusive, however your standard can be met with some well spent money.

Expecting all consoles games to be 60 FPS is a battle no one, not a single person, will win. You can complain all you want. You can demand it all you want. If there continues to be improvement in areas like overall visual fidelity, AI, AA, and the list goes on and on, there needs to be sacrifices in other areas of the presentation. More often than not FPS is going to be first on the list of an acceptable sacrifice for the overall greater good of the entire experience. This is just how things are and how they always will be when the discussion is console gaming.

 

[EmptySpace]

No one gives a shit past concern trolls on GAF and PC master race people.

Sure we would all love to have it in 60fps, but practically no one truly expected itor would consider 30fps a "serious blow".

exactly. no one in the real world gives a shit as long as it isn't ubi/ninja theory levels of stutter.

i don't need 60 fps to solve puzzles.

 

[Cave Johnson]

Which one?

The one with Quiet. Enemy systems seems far more dynamic than I remember. This is also accounting to Quiet reacting to your instructions.

 

[lukeskymac]

I've enjoyed many games at 30 FPS.
I have enjoyed many games at 60 FPS.
I have also enjoyed many games at higher than 60 FPS.

Are higher frames preferred if and when they are possible? Sure.
Are games unplayable if they are only 30 FPS? Absolutely not.
If they were, that would mean the majority of console games released over the years are filed under unplayable, which is just simply not the case.

If 60 FPS is your defacto standard for the absolute minimum amount of frames you need to enjoy a videogame, just make life easy for yourself and get a PC and be done with it. Granted you will not get to play a game like Uncharted 4 as it is a console exclusive, however your standard can be met with some well spent money.

Expecting all consoles games to be 60 FPS is a battle no one, not a single person, will win. You can complain all you want. You can demand it all you want. If there continues to be improvement in areas like overall visual fidelity, AI, AA, and the list goes on and on, there needs to be sacrifices in other areas of the presentation. More often than not FPS is going to be first on the list of an acceptable sacrifice for the overall greater good of the entire experience. This is just how things are and how they always will be when the discussion is console gaming.

Look! A reasonable post! Shun this poster, GAF! Shun hiiim!

 

[The Praiseworthy]

60fps is overrated if it's not for fast based games like racing \ hack & slash ect.

 

[Javin98]

I've enjoyed many games at 30 FPS.
I have enjoyed many games at 60 FPS.
I have also enjoyed many games at higher than 60 FPS.

Are higher frames preferred if and when they are possible? Sure.
Are games unplayable if they are only 30 FPS? Absolutely not.
If they were, that would mean the majority of console games released over the years are filed under unplayable, which is just simply not the case.

If 60 FPS is your defacto standard for the absolute minimum amount of frames you need to enjoy a videogame, just make life easy for yourself and get a PC and be done with it. Granted you will not get to play a game like Uncharted 4 as it is a console exclusive, however your standard can be met with some well spent money.

Expecting all consoles games to be 60 FPS is a battle no one, not a single person, will win. You can complain all you want. You can demand it all you want. If there continues to be improvement in areas like overall visual fidelity, AI, AA, and the list goes on and on, there needs to be sacrifices in other areas of the presentation. More often than not FPS is going to be first on the list of an acceptable sacrifice for the overall greater good of the entire experience. This is just how things are and how they always will be when the discussion is console gaming.

Why can't half the thread have sensible and reasonable posts like this?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The run above 30/lock at 30 setup is extremely common to console games. Most 30fps titles would run at 35-45fps if their 30fps vsync lock was removed.

It is very likely that U4 will ship at 30fps. It would be pretty odd for ND to turn around and produce a 60fps game given the game's current framerate and Straley's statements. I'm guessing that the FPS downgrade indicates development problems.

I don't think most consoles games would run so high if they unlock .
Most consoles 30fps games to full of frame drops for them to be any where near 40fps unlock.

 

[MvmntInGrn]

Unlock the frame rate I say. Second Son felt better with unlocked frame rate. I think it's the way to go this gen if you can't hit 60.

Please no. I found unlocked Second Son unplayable. Not every unlocked game is the same though. Unlocked TLOU performs much better than Second Son but locked Second Son was smoother than locked TLOU (don't know what method it uses, but TLOU looks and feels horrible locked).

 

[revimack]

I've enjoyed many games at 30 FPS.
I have enjoyed many games at 60 FPS.
I have also enjoyed many games at higher than 60 FPS.

Are higher frames preferred if and when they are possible? Sure.
Are games unplayable if they are only 30 FPS? Absolutely not.
If they were, that would mean the majority of console games released over the years are filed under unplayable, which is just simply not the case.

If 60 FPS is your defacto standard for the absolute minimum amount of frames you need to enjoy a videogame, just make life easy for yourself and get a PC and be done with it. Granted you will not get to play a game like Uncharted 4 as it is a console exclusive, however your standard can be met with some well spent money.

Expecting all consoles games to be 60 FPS is a battle no one, not a single person, will win. You can complain all you want. You can demand it all you want. If there continues to be improvement in areas like overall visual fidelity, AI, AA, and the list goes on and on, there needs to be sacrifices in other areas of the presentation. More often than not FPS is going to be first on the list of an acceptable sacrifice for the overall greater good of the entire experience. This is just how things are and how they always will be when the discussion is console gaming.

I'm sure there are some FPS Nazis here, but it's not just about the 60 vs. 30 thing. It's the fact that the U4 reveal trailer showcased visuals that were much better-looking than the December gameplay teaser and ran at twice the framerate to boot.

 

[cackhyena]

I'm sure there are some FPS Nazis here, but it's not just about the 60 vs. 30 thing. It's the fact that the U4 reveal trailer showcased visuals that were much better-looking than the December gameplay teaser and ran at twice the framerate to boot.

And you actually thought they'd stick with that?

 

[nib95]

I'm sure there are some FPS Nazis here, but it's not just about the 60 vs. 30 thing. It's the fact that the U4 reveal trailer showcased visuals that were much better-looking than the December gameplay teaser and ran at twice the framerate to boot.

I honestly think with a lot of extra DoF and the right lighting, it's probably close the same as the reveal trailer. I'm sure when we get to that point of the game in the final thing, we'll see as much.

 

[revimack]

I don't think most consoles games would run so high if they unlock .
Most consoles 30fps games to full of frame drops for them to be any where near 40fps unlock.

A vsynced 30fps game that suffers occasional drops below 30 will usually have a framerate in the ~40fps range. Run a PC game at around that framerate with FRAPS running and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Cave Johnson]

Look! A reasonable post! Shun this poster, GAF! Shun hiiim!

Why can't half the thread have sensible and reasonable posts like this?

A bit too enthusiastic aren't you guys? This doesn't address the exclusives, which is relevant to this topic.

Would be really be having the same conversation if ND decided to come out and downgrade the visuals so the game would run at a smooth 60fps?

But that's not what the "60" fps trailer is implying does it? Pretty risky PR move that is responsible for this thread. If ND can do it, why don't every other developers make faux-60fps for marketing campaigns every time?

 

[Servbot24]

There was a thread where people picked up on what was downgraded already, but do you recall the framerate? I know I do.

They didn't promise that the game would look exactly like the teaser trailer if that's what you're referring to.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I'm sure there are some FPS Nazis here, but it's not just about the 60 vs. 30 thing. It's the fact that the U4 reveal trailer showcased visuals that were much better-looking than the December gameplay teaser and ran at twice the framerate to boot.

Dec trailer was a cutscene and if you at the gameplay trailer the cutscenes in that look just as good.
It's the gameplay that don't look as good but then again cutscenes will always look better than gameplay .

A vsynced 30fps game that suffers occasional drops below 30 will usually have a framerate in the ~40fps range. Run a PC game at around that framerate with FRAPS running and you'll see what I mean.

Consoles develpment is not the same as PC when it comes to targetting frame rate.
Dev push hard on consoles and framerate is the first thing to go .
Take a game like LOS that drop often you really think most of the game is running at 40fps most of the time with the amount of frame drops it has .

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Why can't half the thread have sensible and reasonable posts like this?

Well, it's because Naughty Dog made a lot of comments that made them seem really set on 60fps, most notably this about LoU Remastered:

"But being able to compare apples to apples like we have now with The Last of Us, going back and playing the 30 Hz version feels, to quote some people in the office, 'broken.' There's something that can't be captured in screenshots and playing an adventure game where you just walk around and experience the world at the smooth 60 Hz.

Then when they showed off Uncharted 4, they told everyone it was in real time and aiming for 60fps.

Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter. Devs miss targets plenty of times

 

[Servbot24]

I'm sure there are some FPS Nazis here, but it's not just about the 60 vs. 30 thing. It's the fact that the U4 reveal trailer showcased visuals that were much better-looking than the December gameplay teaser and ran at twice the framerate to boot.

So?

Video games aren't birthed from the heavens. People work on them. When you work on things, they change. This shouldn't need to be explained.

 

[nib95]

On a side note, it's pretty interesting comparing how the visuals in the franchise have improved over time. I expect the final retail version of the game to look even better.

 

[jimbobsmells]

.

I like you.

 

[Noobcraft]

30 fps didn't stop Uncharted 1-3 from playing well. I wouldn't mind UC4 being 30 fps locked like prior entries, but it would be a little weird if they don't hit 60 because of the "TLOU at 30 fps was broken" comments they made around the launch of TLOU:R. Either way I'll be happy though tbh.

 

[Business]

I honestly think with a lot of extra DoF and the right lighting, it's probably close the same as the reveal trailer. I'm sure when we get to that point of the game in the final thing, we'll see as much.

I'm sure it has been discussed to death in other threads but come on, just look at the hair. The reveal trailer looks quite a lot better than the PSX demo.

If finally they lock the game at 30fps it will be a bit disappointing since they created the 60fps expectation, but if it's really locked we will be fine.

 

[phanphare]

I don't think they ever made a claim to hit 60fps. Their debut trailer did run at 60fps, but it was a cutscene being rendered on a PS4, not live gameplay. Their goal since then was to try and hit 60fps, but they never came out and said that it would definitely, absolutely run at 60fps. Thus the reason for my targeting comment, that suggest that ND wanted to push the hardware as hard as possible while also delivering a high level of graphical fidelity. Not being able to lock in a hard 60 means they have to pull it back to 30 and push for a constant framerate over one that is all over the board.

Based on the info out there about the game, I don't believe they ever misspoke about the framerate, just their want and desire to try and hit 60fps.

Would be really be having the same conversation if ND decided to come out and downgrade the visuals so the game would run at a smooth 60fps?

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/06/09/e3-14-uncharted-4-a-thiefs-end-trailer/

this is basically what I'm talking about. I get that they strategically used the word "targeting" but I still don't think it's that big of a stretch to think Naughty Dog would hit their targets. or maybe it is a stretch, like I said I haven't followed Naughty Dog for that long. my point is that Naughty Dog themselves set the expectation yet some posters in here are acting like anyone who was expecting 60fps is a crazy person.

 

[revimack]

I honestly think with a lot of extra DoF and the right lighting, it's probably close the same as the reveal trailer. I'm sure when we get to that point of the game in the final thing, we'll see as much.

Drake's model is the one thing that's reasonably well-preserved from the reveal trailer. His hair uses simpler modeling than before, but the rest of his body is similar to the reveal. Most everything else, particularly environmental detail, seems to have suffered quite a bit.

 

[sade]

We all know what this means, 30 fps implicitly confirmed.

 

[daveo42]

A bit too enthusiastic aren't you guys? This doesn't address the exclusives, which is relevant to this topic.

But that's not what the "60" fps trailer is implying does it? Pretty risky PR move that is the responsible for this thread.

The trailer was a cut scene rendered on the PS4, not live gameplay. Did we ever expect the cut scenes in past Uncharted games or TLoU to have the same fidelity and run at 30fps in actual gameplay?

I think far too many people are putting way too much stock in the fps of that trailer than they should be and taking that fact alone that ND stated "We will deliver 60fps".

 

[funkystudent]

Saw this coming a mile away after PSX.

Not defending this bullshit, if ND want to have chest hair that is manipulated by the wind of the level and a fully fictional gun straps instead of 60fps them thats a real bummer.

Pessimally how hard they PR'd 60fps after E3 and how "it was imposable for them go back to 30fps" after seeing the difference.

 

[nib95]

Drake's model is the one thing that's reasonably well-preserved from the reveal trailer. His hair uses simpler modeling than before, but the rest of his body is similar to the reveal. Most everything else, particularly environmental detail, seems to have suffered quite a bit.

It's almost impossible to judge the latter, because in the reveal trailer the environment pretty much completely has a heavy amount of depth of field applied.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Make it 30 FPS with amazing graphics.

Why stop there? I say 15fps with OMFGAmazeballs graphics.

 

[Escalario]

ND got BTFO.

 

[Javin98]

Drake's model is the one thing that's reasonably well-preserved from the reveal trailer. His hair uses simpler modeling than before, but the rest of his body is similar to the reveal. Most everything else, particularly environmental detail, seems to have suffered quite a bit.

So you can judge the environmental detail in the E3 demo when it was all heavily DOF'd? Good for you. I wish I had your eyes. /s

And the downgrade bullshit has been discussed to death so I won't bring it up again but I will just comment on the hair. The hair is the only thing that was noticeably lower quality compared to the E3 trailer.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Having an option like the Last of Us would be nice. Let the player decide what to value, visuals or frame rate.

Last of us was a PS3 game. Notice there was no 60 fps option there? You did enjoy those stunning vistas, correct?

 

[jimi_dini]

No. The average gamer doesn't care for framerate.

The average gamer doesn't care about numbers.

But the average gamer can feel that it controls way better.

 

[daveo42]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/06/09/e3-14-uncharted-4-a-thiefs-end-trailer/

this is basically what I'm talking about. I get that they strategically used the word "targeting" but I still don't think it's that big of a stretch to think Naughty Dog would hit their targets. or maybe it is a stretch, like I said I haven't followed Naughty Dog for that long. my point is that Naughty Dog themselves set the expectation yet some posters in here are acting like anyone who was expecting 60fps is a crazy person.

I wouldn't say that expecting 60fps was unreasonable based on their work on TLoU: Remastered, but I some people are treating this as spitting in the face of consumers, which is a bit unreasonable based on the info already out there from ND.

 

[Duxxy3]

Didn't care about the frame rate for Uncharted 1,2,3 or golden abyss. A lower framerate for 4 wouldn't change my opinion of the game.

 

[ICPEE]

Saw this coming a mile away after PSX.

Not defending this bullshit, if ND want to have chest hair that is manipulated by the wind of the level and a fully fictional gun straps instead of 60fps them thats a real bummer.

Pessimally how hard they PR'd 60fps after E3 and how "it was imposable for them go back to 30fps" after seeing the difference.

Does that have such a big effect on framerate?

 

[EGM1966]

The average gamer doesn't care about numbers.

But the average gamer can feel that it controls way better.

Id say market evidence "twitch online CoD aside" indicates the average gamer notices a visual upgrade more than a responsive upgrade.

Shame but thats the way it is it seems.

 

[EmptySpace]

all these hyperbole about the reveal being "a lot better" has to stop.

nd already said it is in-engine, but cut scenes are also directed. they are going for a certain tone and the reveal reflected that. there are peopke whose sole jobs are to direct the cinematics in uncharted. they don't just move the camera around a level and got done with it and voilà it's a cutscene. they change the placement of light sources, they blur background to focus on objects, they manipulate wind speed, etc. and sometimes that calls for added effect. why? because the cinematics people want to do their job right.

so yes, the reveal was in-engine and it was also directed. you can't compare a directed cut scene with a freeform gameplay segment.