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[barneystuta83]

This is what I said in another topic last week.

Realistically, I can only see it being one of the following:

- Streaming - The ability to stream Xbox One games to any Windows 10 device: Phone, Tablet, Laptop, Desktop. You will still need an Xbox One and buy their games. Will only work with digital titles or if the disc is in the tray.

There is potential it could work the other way... if there is a "proper" Microsoft PC gaming store.

So you could stream PC games bought via the Xbox store only, not Steam or other client games.

With this option, it keeps the Xbox One relevant, while giving the ability to take games with you anywhere. Any device, "one" game library. It would require a Gold Live subscription to take advantage of the streaming, with no additional subscription costs, unlike the PS Now.

Cross Play/Cross buy - One unified store, where games are shared across both platforms. In this way of doing things though, there is no streaming. You own the licence for the games on both PC and the Console.

My only doubt would be the games that are or aren't included. Would MS give up their killer console IP's immediately?

Which leads me onto...

Exclusives 12 months after Console Launch - If they were to announce something like that now, there is already a pretty decent library of games available. Forza and Killer Instinct, with Halo MCC and Sunset Overdrive coming out towards the end of the year.

People will still by the Xbox One for the big killer games. A year in gaming is a long wait for many, especially if it was to play something like Gears. People will still by Xbox One consoles. The PC market will become a second market, a second chance to sell the big games.

In the Gaf bubble, I am sure there are many who have a great PC set up, capable of playing the big AAA games, as well as a console or two (or more). However, in the general public, I'd say that most people would have one main gaming platform.

So by saying "You can't play Halo 5 until holiday 2016 on PC" would not reduce console/software sales that much, if at all.

--

On top of one of these, I'd image we would start to see a more unified app store (with some apps not compatible on various platforms). Think of it like having certain apps in the Android/Apple ecosystem that don't work on certain phones or tablets.

Any of these options are feasible and not out of the realms of possibility.

I look forward to hearing more in the coming weeks.

Not a lot has changed, I stlll think it could be any one of these or all of them.

Roll on next week.

 

[Nzyme32]

And if I had known that the console would lose all exclusive games and become a crappy PC within a year and a half I wouldn't have. If MS does go in that direction they better have some kind of amazing ambassador program for everyone who bought the console. I really don't think they will go that direction though. Remote play on PC is far more likely.

You don't lose your blessed exclusives. They would be exclusive to the windows platform. PC and Xbox are the Windows platform. You can continue to wave your phallus of exclusives and numberwang away should you choose. The only other way I can put it, is to say Xbox games are still Xbox games - Windows is the platform on which you play Xbox games - Xbox One is still an Xbox game player.

Chances are the "One Store" is the only place to get the games anyway, and PC gamers will be hesitant at that likely only picking up exclusive titles via that service, which again bodes well for the platform.

Your complaints about owning a "$500 low end PC" are your own doing, as is true with almost any device where policies change, tech changes, modes of payment and distribution change, all at the behest of the platform owner, in this case Microsoft.

Again it's all a hypothetical anyway

 

[The Shogun]

I would love to do all my gaming in the MS ecosystem.

Yep, like I said, if MS made a great Store, let me buy games from them similar to Origin / Steam / Uplay, and I would earn Gamerscore towards my regular Xbox profile I would seriously stop using Steam today.

Let me be able to compare Games with Xbox Live friends, send them messages, earn Gamerscore under one profile on PC / Xbox and I'm there day zero. So would many people I know. Don't have any of the bull shit that GFWL had and offer these features and MS could become a power player in the PC Gaming space. Unite the ecosystems it makes perfect sense.

 

[Kezen]

This is what I said in another topic last week.



Not a lot has changed, I stlll think it could be any one of these or all of them.

Roll on next week.

Streaming is the most realistic of the list I think. MS still want to sell their hardware.

 

[Ol No Bones]

I love the idea of Xbox on windows. Instead of trying to protect your console by holding exclusives to the console itself have a platform for games including exclusive games and content. Have it built right into the fabric of your operating system. A lot of devs would find that appealing to sell across a much larger install base. Console sales does nothing for Microsoft. The console is only the vehicle for selling you content. Just open up that content to a much wider base of (hopefully) interested customers and now you have something special.

 

[link1201]

I'm probably more excited about this than I should be, but I can't wait to see what they show.

 

[deadman69]

so are word and excel coming to the xbox?

 

[Alx]

so are word and excel coming to the xbox?

At least a powerpoint viewer would be useful... especially if you can share your "desktop" over Skype.

 

[Natureboy99]

Subscription-based OS.

Please don't.

They're cheap as it is. No reason to go the subscription route.

It's likely that they'll stick to requiring a Gold subscription if GFWL 2 is a thing though.


Is that not a picture of Forza Horizon 2 on the desktop image above?

All Xbox One games run on Windows 10?

 

[kodecraft]

Yep, like I said, if MS made a great Store, let me buy games from them similar to Origin / Steam / Uplay, and I would earn Gamerscore towards my regular Xbox profile I would seriously stop using Steam today.

Let me be able to compare Games with Xbox Live friends, send them messages, earn Gamerscore under one profile on PC / Xbox and I'm there day zero. So would many people I know. Don't have any of the bull shit that GFWL had and offer these features and MS could become a power player in the PC Gaming space. Unite the ecosystems it makes perfect sense.

This. Man I like this.

 

[LukasTaves]

You don't lose your blessed exclusives. They would be exclusive to the windows platform. PC and Xbox are the Windows platform. You can continue to wave your phallus of exclusives and numberwang away should you choose. The only other way I can put it, is to say Xbox games are still Xbox games - Windows is the platform on which you play Xbox games - Xbox One is still an Xbox game player.

Chances are the "One Store" is the only place to get the games anyway, and PC gamers will be hesitant at that likely only picking up exclusive titles via that service, which again bodes well for the platform.

Your complaints about owning a "$500 low end PC" are your own doing, as is true with almost any device where policies change, tech changes, modes of payment and distribution change, all at the behest of the platform owner, in this case Microsoft.

Again it's all a hypothetical anyway

And of course, the other way around would happen a lot too (previously Pc only or Pc first games, being playable on Xbox).

Specially if made xbox compatible with keyboard+ mouse.

 

[Hockeymac18]

I don't think it'll happen, but I would love to see as many "apps" released for the Xbox One as a result of this Windows 10 move. Namely, a Steam "App" would be awesome. It would essentially make the Xbox One a really convenient PC connected to my TV.

I don't see the appeal for MS to release all of Xbox One's exclusives to the PC (as much as people really want that), but I think the opposite would really make the Xbox One much more appealing to a lot of people. Situation 1: all of XB1's games released to PC doesn't do much for MS' hardware sales; But Situation 2: most/all current PC games available to play on Xbox One via third party stores (such as Steam) would be incredible and probably really help Xbox One's sales (suddenly all those PS4/Steam exclusive games aren't so exclusive anymore).

For many people the Xbox One could become a cheap "second PC" for the TV.

It don't think this would ever happen. But that's what I'd love to see come out of Windows 10 and "universal apps" on the Xbox One.

Steaming Xbox One games to a PC (or any windows 10 device) is also cool and something I hope to see come out of it.

 

[QaaQer]

How about a Windows 10 licence that's part of an xblive subscription? Actually I shouldn't be thinking of evil schemes for them.

Pretty sure subs for windows 10 are going to be a thing: recurring revenue> one time purchase. All I care about is the platform remaing open and them not forcing all software through thier store.

If I had to predict, they will do an OSX, where running nonofficial store software will throw up an ominous warning without the option to ovveride it. You can toggle a hidden setting to allow it to run, but you'll have to find that info out for yourself. Of course, they've already done an apple on the mobile side as software can only be obtained via windows store.

And lol at the idea of an Xbox steam app.

 

[Bsigg12]

Subscription-based OS.

Please don't.

They're cheap as it is. No reason to go the subscription route.

It's likely that they'll stick to requiring a Gold subscription if GFWL 2 is a thing though.


Is that not a picture of Forza Horizon 2 on the desktop image above?

No, it looks like a shitty phone/tablet racing game from the Windows Store.

 

[Hockeymac18]

And lol at the idea of an Xbox steam app.

I'm not sure why it's funny. I guess you mean in the sense that it's unrealistic. And I said it won't happen. It's just what I'd love to see. It's certainly possible, in a technical sense. And it actually isn't that bad from a business perspective for MS.

But yes, again, it won't happen.

 

[Bessy67]

I'm not sure why it's funny. I guess you mean in the sense that it's unrealistic. And I said it won't happen. It's just what I'd love to see. It's certainly possible, in a technical sense. And it actually isn't that bad from a business perspective for MS.

But yes, it won't happen.

It's definitely bad from a business perspective for MS. They'd lose a ton of software sales.

 

[erawsd]

I don't think it'll happen, but I would love to see as many "apps" released for the Xbox One as a result of this Windows 10 move. Namely, a Steam "App" would be awesome. It would essentially make the Xbox One a really convenient PC connected to my TV.

I don't see the appeal for MS to release all of Xbox One's exclusives to the PC (as much as people really want that), but I think the opposite would really make the Xbox One much more appealing to a lot of people. Situation 1: all of XB1's games released to PC doesn't do much for MS' hardware sales; But Situation 2: most/all current PC games available to play on Xbox One via third party stores (such as Steam) would be incredible and probably really help Xbox One's sales (suddenly all those PS4/Steam exclusive games aren't so exclusive anymore).

For many people the Xbox One could become a cheap "second PC" for the TV.

It don't think this would ever happen. But that's what I'd love to see come out of Windows 10 and "universal apps" on the Xbox One.

Steaming Xbox One games to a PC (or any windows 10 device) is also cool and something I hope to see come out of it.

Yeah that will never happen. I think theres a better chance that we'll see a PSNow Windows/Xbox App than a Steam App.

 

[Hockeymac18]

Yeah that will never happen. I think theres a better chance that we'll see a PSNow Windows/Xbox App than a Steam App.

I think it's very likely we'll see a PSNow windows app. I don't see that being far fetched in any sense.

 

[kodecraft]

I'm not sure why it's funny. I guess you mean in the sense that it's unrealistic. And I said it won't happen. It's just what I'd love to see. It's certainly possible, in a technical sense. And it actually isn't that bad from a business perspective for MS.

But yes, again, it won't happen.

I rather MS create their own Steam before having a Steam app.

 

[Salty Hippo]

I feel like you completely miss the point and indeed follow an almost fanboy mentality. Nothing is changing in terms of Xbox. Your grievance is that under this hypothetical - Windows plays Xbox games. Why is this a middle finger, when it does nothing bad to the Xbox systems?

The spec remains the same and availability is broadened to include Windows - something which in this hypothetical is what the Xbox runs in the first place. Xbox is now the device, and the platform is Windows. Xbox games actually become something more attractive to develop for as they can appeal to both PC and Xbox users.

You still get your numberwang exclusives to list and the Xbox device becomes the cheaper mass produced Windows box to go for if you want Xbox games more specifically as well as Windows apps. The hardware of the Xbox may not sell as much over time comparatively to say a PS4, but it wouldn't matter as long as the Xbox games and ecosystem now a part of Windows are still popular and growth increases with that broadening, as it also includes PC hardware heck maybe even Streaming if they have a service for it.

Again Windows is the platform and Xbox represents locked spec games in this hypothetical along with Xbox consoles as a Windows box. It could pose a very interesting scenario to regular PC gaming along side that

This needs to happen. The only problem I see them having is getting their software sales destroyed by piracy. But I'd be willing to endure DRM, online checks and any other anti-piracy method if that meant I could play all X1 games without the need to buy the console. For real.

 

[Nokterian]

I expect nothing no really they have been saying this for 10 years now.

All right time to quote this again.

For people getting their hopes up. This is MS's various statements on their promise to PC gaming.

• 2005 - We care about PC gaming, Longhorn (Vista) to usher in modern PC gaming with "Tray and Play"
  Vista launches with none of the stuff MS promised, Vista itself sucks the ass of a thousand camels.
  
  
• 2006 - MS: Don't Count PC Games Out
  MS announces GFWL and how utterly amazing it will be, suckers everywhere rejoice in the eventual ass reaming they don't know is coming yet.
  
  
• 2007 - MS continues PC push
  MS launches GFWL...and it has a $50 a year fee, and they announce a whole slew of games to include Shadowrun with cross platform play and Gears of War 1! What are you paying for you ask? Jank ass software that crashes and has the most unintuitive updating system known to man. Load a game, game says you need update. Signs you out, downloads update, you jump back in...oh GFWL client has a update too! signs you out, downloads up date and you log back in...
  
  MS will shortly thereafter disband Ensemble because MS feels that they're (MS) moving in a different direction! But don't worry we tots <3 you PC gamers.
  
  
• 2008 - MS: PC gaming is A-okay
  Yea we've looked at some money pie charts and can see that PC gaming brings in billions in revenue. Here is our open letter to how awesome PC gaming is and our promise to support it! We finally put some new titles up on GFWL! Oh and we got rid of the $50 a year fee for GFWL, see we're serious about PC gaming! If that's not a sign of commitment, I don't know what is!
  
  
• 2008 - MS: PC gaming is not dead!
  Look at this event we're throwing for PC gaming, you think we'd throw this if we didn't truly care about it?! Look at these games that will be on GFWL. We <3 PC gaming. You want fixes for GFWL issues? We'll look into that.
  
  
• 2008 - MS bolsters PC gaming with all new Games for Windows Live!
  Hey gaiz remember those GFWL client issues you were having...well we didn't fix those per say but....here is the same shit in a slightly newer skin! PROGRESS
  
  
• 2009 - MS: PC gaming still a priority for us!
  Okay gaiz look, this time we're serious about our upcoming push in PC gaming. It's so vital to us at MS that we give the PC our love and support!
  
  
• 2010 - MS: "We're doubling down on PC gaming
  By doubling down we mean we're keeping this shittastic GFWL client around because! We might even throw an update at it to fix the problem of game saves being randomly deleted or rendered worthless...maybe.
  
  
• 2010 - MS Launches Games for Windows Marketplace
  Hey gaiz, we're making GFWL even better because it's now called Games for Windows Marketplace. Everything is brand new and easy to use, anonymous journalists have even said it's better than Steam. We had 3 interns and a janitor work on this, so you know we're committed!
  
  
• 2010 - MS: Windows 8 is going to relaunch gaming!
  Hey gaiz, MS again. With Windows 8 we're totally going to put our full weight behind PC gaming just like we promised back in 2006! Pls be excite.
  
  
• 2012 - MS: We won't ditch GFWL!
  We're committed to PC gaming and we absolutely think GFWL is the best play to get PC games and play with others. Our client is awesome....ly bloated and deletes shit randomly, but that's really one of the charms of PC gaming that we captured! It's a balanced experience! Hope you rike!
  
  
• 2013 - MS to discontinue GFWL
  Hey gaiz new manager here, so like a bunch of your games might stop working come 2014...but that's okay! We expect there to be transitions as we build out new investments, but we remain committed to bringing first party gaming services and games to Windows for years to come. We will share more details in the future!
  
  
• 2013 - MS promises core first party games coming to PC
  We're so committed we swear!

Sorry, but all MS is doing is blowing smoke up the ass of gullible people. So yea go ahead and get your hopes up and get excited. In a year or two when none of what they say comes to fruition...I'll pretend to act shocked.

 

[QaaQer]

I'm not sure why it's funny. I guess you mean in the sense that it's unrealistic. And I said it won't happen. It's just what I'd love to see. It's certainly possible, in a technical sense. And it actually isn't that bad from a business perspective for MS.

But yes, again, it won't happen.

Unless they can monetize it, it is bad for ms, from their prospective that is.

 

[QaaQer]

I expect nothing no really they have been saying this for 10 years now.

All right time to quote this again.

I have a feeling that Nadella might be intelligent and sly enough to make a windows store the place 99% of people buy windows software from using the embrace, extend, extinguish paradigm. Ballmer was too hamfisted to pull it off, but SN...

 

[Nokterian]

I have a feeling that Nadella might be intelligent and sly enough to make a windows store the place 99% of people buy windows software from using the embrace, extend, extinguish paradigm. Ballmer was too hamfisted to pull it off, but SN...

They need to show receipts first before saying stuff like this that's why i am highly sceptical about it and for a good reason.

 

[The Cowboy]

I expect nothing no really they have been saying this for 10 years now.

All right time to quote this again.

I always love the 2012/2013 ones - "MS: we won't ditch GFWL" then strait after "MS to discontinue GFWL" - LOL.
-
Anyway, MS just tell me of a wireless dongle for the One pad for PC, I got rid of my One pad for my PC and went back to the wireless 360 pad as i hated having a wire.

 

[JaggedSac]

Also, an interesting thing about Win10 is that the Store will now manage x86/64 software as well as WinRT applications. That seems like a pretty cool thing. Devs could just plop their games on there.

 

[CalamityPixel]

I expect nothing no really they have been saying this for 10 years now.

All right time to quote this again.

I wouldn't count Satya and Spencer out just yet, they are different people to their predecessors.

But, I wont be getting my hopes up.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I expect nothing no really they have been saying this for 10 years now.

All right time to quote this again.

I will honor NeoGAF tradition instead and remain hyped!

 

[Nzyme32]

I have a feeling that Nadella might be intelligent and sly enough to make a windows store the place 99% of people buy windows software from using the embrace, extend, extinguish paradigm. Ballmer was too hamfisted to pull it off, but SN...

I was thinking this a lot too, but then I heard Nadella's comments on Karma a while back and really can't be sure

 

[Hockeymac18]

It's definitely bad from a business perspective for MS. They'd lose a ton of software sales.

I don't know if it would be as bad long term as you think. I think they'd gain a lot on the hardware end and they would still be selling their XB1-exclusive games. And MS's Xbox One store would still exist to get sales. And games would still be sold in stores.

Also, if the choice for me is between a game that was optimized for the XB1 and a version (on the steam app) that was built for a PC (and not optimized for the XB1), I think I'll choose the XB1 version every single time. Closed architecture of the XB1 will always outperform a PC version made generically for all PCs.

The Steam App would work out great for scenarios where the games aren't on Xbox (but are on PC). In that sense...the Xbox One loses nothing. It only stands to gain something. People who would generally not even be interested in an Xbox One (say PC-only gamers) might all of sudden take a serious look at the Xbox One as a "second PC" or a cheap "steam machine" (if you will). And then there is the chance to lock them into Windows 10 by offering Xbox One to PC streaming (good for games that aren't on PC...again, a positive for someone owning an Xbox One). I don't think the business perspective is as bad as you guys might think it would be, long term.

I personally think MS putting all of their Xbox One-exclusive games on PC is a worse decision, from a business perspective. Now no one will have any desire for an Xbox One. And Xbox One to PC streaming is really useless...why would someone do that when they can just get a PC and get all of the games there?

I rather MS create their own Steam before having a Steam app.

I'd have no problem with this. The problem is that Steam has so much control over PC-game distribution. Which is why I used their app as an example above. If MS can create a Steam-like application and get all of those games that are on Steam to somehow come to their ecosystem, too, I'd personally have no problem with it.

I probably have a different perspective than a typical PC gamer, though, since I haven't invested a ton into my Steam library.

Again, I don't think any of this will happen. But it isn't as ridiculous as it might sound. I personally think it's less ridiculous than all Xbox One-exclusive games coming to PC (something people are clamoring for and seem to be discussing as a reasonable thing that might happen).

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Subscription-based OS.

Please don't.

They're cheap as it is. No reason to go the subscription route.

It's likely that they'll stick to requiring a Gold subscription if GFWL 2 is a thing though.


Is that not a picture of Forza Horizon 2 on the desktop image above?

Looks like the art for one of those Asphalt games.

 

[QaaQer]

They need to show receipts first before saying stuff like this that's why i am highly sceptical about it and for a good reason.

His prior successes which had nothing to do with being a Gates crony tell me he is not old time Microsoft. It remains to be seen if he is as predatory and nasty as gates/ballmer, and if his talents can result in a windows store killing alt sales.platforms.

 

[QaaQer]

I was thinking this a lot too, but then I heard Nadella's comments on Karma a while back and really can't be sure

Link or a summary? Is he religious?

 

[Durante]

I have a feeling that Nadella might be intelligent and sly enough to make a windows store the place 99% of people buy windows software from using the embrace, extend, extinguish paradigm. Ballmer was too hamfisted to pull it off, but SN...

That's my fear.

Single-handedly killing the last bastion of freedom in mainstream computing.

 

[JaggedSac]

I'd have no problem with this. The problem is that Steam has so much control over PC-game distribution. Which is why I used their app as an example above. If MS can create a Steam-like application and get all of those games that are on Steam to somehow come to their ecosystem, too, I'd personally have no problem with it.

I probably have a different perspective than a typical PC gamer, though, since I haven't invested a ton into my Steam library.

If MS allows desktop software on the Store in Win10(MS wrote a blog post detailing this and then subsequently pulled it), then they already have a Steam competitor. Depending on what MS charges to host software there, any dev could plop any x86/64 software onto that marketplace. Question is, would anyone actually use it to download desktop games when they could just as easily use Steam. The onus would be on MS to get that to happen. But depending on cost, there really would be no reason for a dev NOT to put their software there in addition to Steam.

 

[Nzyme32]

Link or a summary? Is he religious?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/ac818bf4-5057-11e4-8645-00144feab7de.html#axzz3OuupmIis

although I think this is more what happened afterwards

 

[RCSI]

I anticipate that Windows 10 PC's will be able to stream Xbox One games, à la Steam In-Home streaming.

 

[Vyrance]

I hope you can have the start button on desktop version just bring out the usual Programs/Documents/etc instead of that extra bloat crap on the side

 

[QaaQer]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/ac818bf4-5057-11e4-8645-00144feab7de.html#axzz3OuupmIis

although I think this is more what happened afterwards

Thanks.

 

[Dictator93]

I anticipate that Windows 10 PC's will be able to stream Xbox One games, à la Steam In-Home streaming.

26 fps xb1 games streaming over network? Sounds like a great experience.

I will buy ten xb1s just so I can stream to my neighbor.

 

[vesvci]

I exåect ports of Sunset Overdrive, Killer Instint and Halo MCC.

Spoiler

theyre coming

Yup.

It's only a matter of time before it happens. If they are planning to move into a single platform (OS), this only makes sense. After all, Windows IS Xbox...they're both MS products.

It seems like only the Xbox fanboys/girls don't want this to happen for whatever reason.

 

[derExperte]

But depending on cost, there really would be no reason for a dev NOT to put their software there in addition to Steam.

Considering that Steamworks games you buy on Origin or Uplay still use Steam to run I don't see the advantage. Same would be the case for Origin/Uplay games you'd buy through the MS store. It would just be another storefront (almost) no one asked for.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Not sure how more next gen it can get (Surface Pro 3 is the balls). Also, Win 10 will be free for Surface users anyway.

What about Broadwell instead of Haswell?

 

[JaggedSac]

Considering that Steamworks games you buy on Origin or Uplay still use Steam to run I don't see the advantage. Same would be the case for Origin/Uplay games you'd buy through the MS store. It would just be another storefront (almost) no one asked for.

MS might take a lower cut than the others. But regardless, it is rumored to be a store front for desktop software, games would just be a subset.

 

[dreamlock]

I have a feeling that Nadella might be intelligent and sly enough to make a windows store the place 99% of people buy windows software from using the embrace, extend, extinguish paradigm. Ballmer was too hamfisted to pull it off, but SN...

Man, if this happens, I'll lose my shit...and I never lose my shit. I fear for my account if they reveal something like this. I'll probably force myself to not log on for a few days until I've calmed down.

I hope you can have the start button on desktop version just bring out the usual Programs/Documents/etc instead of that extra bloat crap on the side

No worries, you can turn that clutter off. First thing I did in the tech preview.

 

[Kezen]

26 fps xb1 games streaming over network? Sounds like a great experience.

I will buy ten xb1s just so I can stream to my neighbor.

Imagine playing Sunset Overdrive at a glorious 900p/30fps capped.

Yeah, I'll pass.

 

[The Shogun]

MS.

I will rebuy my Steam library in your store if you give me a unified account with my Xbox profile. I kid you not.

TAKE MY MONEY PLEASE

 

[sueil]

Can't believe it took 5 pages for the list of MS empty promises to get posted.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Welcome to Windows 10, your one OS for all your devices.

With an xbox live membership, you can pay a one time price of $74.99 for digital games. The bonus? You can play your games on any Windows 10 device you log in to. Whether it be your desktop, your laptop/ultrabook, your tablet, your xbox or your windows 10 phone.

Because your saves are in "the cloud," you can pick up your game from where you left off on any windows 10 device you are logged in to.

One can dream, one can dream.

 

[Nokterian]

I wouldn't count Satya and Spencer out just yet, they are different people to their predecessors.

But, I wont be getting my hopes up.

That's why i expect not much. Also there windows store? I do not care about it never since i got Windows 8 and 8.1. I got everything i need on my desktop.