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[Deleted member 20920]

The game is over the top. Just watched the trailer for it but didn't really see much more than a stretch from what GTA provides. As I kinda asked before, is this due to narrative?

Probably. It sounds like a game where you're playing as a mass murderer who is out to kill people for no particular reason. It's not satire nor a parody of anything. Straight up mass murdering simulator.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

How violent was the AO version of The Punisher game? Was it the torture/interrogation mini-games?

 

[abstract alien]

Seems like the theme is the only real thing separating it from a ton of other games. Then again, I haven't kept up with this at all. How is this any different from killing innocent people in GTA or any other game?

 

[bobawesome]

Most of an explanation I found was http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=120074281&postcount=96

Thanks.

Probably the fact a lot of the cast looks like they're 10.

And yet we're still free to make topics about Senran Kagura, a game in which you can strip highschool girls and fondle them in the locker room.

Is Monster Monpiece discussion banned as well? I haven't heard much about the game in quite a while now that I think about it...

 

[Phediuk]

How violent was the AO version of The Punisher game? Was it the torture/interrogation mini-games?

I believe it was the same but without the black and white filter during the torture scenes.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

You can't really reach a consensus on what is right/moral and what is wrong/immoral without agreeing to have an open discussion about the extremes.
If a particular user is causing trouble then that user should be banned as opposed to the game itself

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Probably the fact a lot of the cast looks like they're 10.

And because the player can subject them to questionable torturing to tame these girls.

 

[Conor_Fool]

Seems like the theme is the only real thing separating it from a ton of other games. Then again, I haven't kept up with this at all. How is this any different from killing innocent people in GTA or any other game?

I guess because killing innocent people in GTA usually at least has some sort of penalty whereas killing innocent people in Hatred is pretty much the goal of the game.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

And because the player can subject them to questionable torturing to tame these girls.

Right, I think that was the thing that pushed it over the edge.

 

[DownGrader]

My god, there is a third part? I didn't even know.

And you shouldn't. I am literally ashamed that someone from my country made this abomination.

 

[Vagabundo]

Shitty game with a shitty intent.

 

[Brutalitops]

Can't wait to play it.

 

[Foffy]

I don't agree with GAF on this rule, simply because the lines of what is considered "toxic" and what isn't is up to debate. Isn't killing people toxic? I dunno...

The issue I see here is that the problem of something being toxic is entirely subjective: the stance taken on this forum over Hatred is one of confusing subjectivity with objectivity.

 

[Cyriades]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=134806969#post134806969

More or less toxic... that would be half of all games made today.

Be thankful for PC because I don't think Sony or MS would touch it because of the fake controversy around it. I've done a lot worse in other games .. even had sex with prostitutes and killed them afterwards.

Its game for adults.. try not to limit what we can play because someones mom has no control over what their kids bring home from the electronics store.

 

[Corpekata]

Thanks.



And yet we're still free to make topics about Senran Kagura, a game in which you can strip highschool girls and fondle them in the locker room.

Is Monster Monpiece discussion banned as well? I haven't heard much about the game in quite a while now that I think about it...

I think Monster Monpiece is. I mean, I find Senran pretty fucking stupid myself too, but I think they're more lenient simply because they don't look ten years old. It's still gross, just slightly less gross. Half naked high schoolers trumps BDSM scenes of 10 year olds I guess.

 

[meanspartan]

You can't really reach a consensus on what is right/moral and what is wrong/immoral without agreeing to have an open discussion about the extremes.
If a particular user is causing trouble then that user should be banned as opposed to the game itself

Agreed.

I don't get to tell EviLore how to run his website of course, and he can do as he pleases. But, I do humbly suggest that nothing be off limits in regards to which games are discussed.

Or at least, make brightline rules (for instance, "no porn games" or what have you), don't differentiate one game just because you dislike the content when the same level of violence (in this case) can be found in other games.

 

[YianGaruga]

Why did they decide to get a rating at all? As far as I know you don't need a rating if you want to release your game digitally and I doubt they'll do a physical release.

 

[krizzx]

I don't agree with GAF on this rule, simply because the lines of what is considered "toxic" and what isn't is up to debate. Isn't killing people toxic? I dunno...

Depends on context.

The issue I see here is that the problem of something being toxic is entirely subjective: the stance taken on this forum over Hatred is one of confusing subjectivity with objectivity.

There is nothing confusing about it to me. Its like asking what is the difference between a sex scene in a rated R movie and porn.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Agreed.

I don't get to tell EviLore how to run his website of course, and he can do as he pleases. But, I do humbly suggest that nothing be off limits in regards to which games are discussed.

Or at least, make brightline rules (for instance, "no porn games" or what have you), don't differentiate one game just because you dislike the content when the same level of violence (in this case) can be found in other games.

I don't think the problem is with the violence per se but with how violence is used and what sort of narrative is framing that violence. One (?) of the developers have also been known to visit neo-Nazi sites because he claims he has no time and wants "balanced news".

It's the same for Criminal Girls. Many Vita games have anime women in weird compromising situations with suggestive artwork to go along with it. What pushes it over is that these girls look like they're ten years old, have been imprisoned for being bad girls, with the final straw of being able to BDSM them into submission.

 

[fedexpeon]

You know people have said the same thing about movies right? And before that books. And not to mention trains! Those were way to fast and dangerous. People kill people not videogames. Your argument is like saying Islam makes people terrorists just because people kill in the name of it.

Words have a lot of influence on people.
People are easily influenced when the brain and its chemical reaction can't process logically.
But yeah, you can just sweep and generalize everything under the rug.
New media, ohh, scary....

I am not going to debate Islamic ideology and the belief in Jihad that is strongly tied in their scripture.
That is totally off-topic.
I will say this though, people are generally weak minded when they have nothing to lose. They will conform to authority and to the mob to justify their decision.

 

[Spineker]

While I also think the game is vile and shouldn't be promoted, I don't understand how GAF banning discussion about it makes the situation better? If GAF doesn't talk about it, someone more noticable inevitably will, like...You know...The mainstream press? Which is exactly what the producers of this game are hoping for, I would imagine.

Nothing like a controversy to draw attention to a game. Over to you, GTA.

 

[remz]

Why did they decide to get a rating at all? As far as I know you don't need a rating if you want to release your game digitally and I doubt they'll do a physical release.

Seeing how the rep was there to talk about it day one, they most likely got the AO so they could brag about it/use it to get more attention.

 

[YianGaruga]

Seeing how the rep was there to talk about it day one, they most likely got the AO so they could brag about it/use it to get more attention.

Yeah that's what I thought as well. Seems like it worked.

 

[abracadaver]

Yeah that's what I thought as well. Seems like it worked.

This will backfire if Steam refuses to sell the game.

 

[FyreWulff]

Probably because it sucked so bad it would be a waste of money to submit it.



You can kill kids in Postal 1 and Fallout and they are rated M. No kids in Hatred.

I double checked this before posting, but everything says that Postal 1 showed kids in an e3 but removed them for the actual release.

It looks like I got Fallout 1 switched up with 3 for search results, I imagine Fallout 1 gets a pass for low fidelity. Fallout 3's explicit gore would keep that from ever happening. Hatred has intense gore closeups as well. The amount of realism involved does matter to the ESRB.

 

[Takao]

Why did they decide to get a rating at all? As far as I know you don't need a rating if you want to release your game digitally and I doubt they'll do a physical release.

they do need one if they want to release on console, but i can easily see them using this as cheap marketing ammunition:

use publicity from ao rating since they're so rare
+
too much hatred for steam, xbox and playstation to handle
buy the uncut version* exclusively at our web domain and select retailers

*edited version available elsewhere too

 

[HowZatOZ]

This will backfire if Steam refuses to sell the game.

They most likely will considering they've never sold one before and I'm pretty sure its pointless to put it on the store considering everyone can circumvent age gates so easily. The game is dead on arrival and thank the classification board for it.

 

[YianGaruga]

This will backfire if Steam refuses to sell the game.

The dev has enough publicity at this point to sell enough of the game through other means so it doesn't really matter too much. I don't think the game will make it to Steam either. Being back on Greenlight means nothing.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

The game is over the top. Just watched the trailer for it but didn't really see much more than a stretch from what GTA provides. As I kinda asked before, is this due to narrative?

It's definitely the narrative. It's an american mass shooters wet dream. No one would bat an eye at the violence otherwise.

 

[the_batman]

It's definitely the narrative. It's an american mass shooters wet dream. No one would bat an eye at the violence otherwise.

why does it have to be american? pretty sure the guy with the most kills is Norwegian.

 

[FyreWulff]

Agreed.

I don't get to tell EviLore how to run his website of course, and he can do as he pleases. But, I do humbly suggest that nothing be off limits in regards to which games are discussed.

Or at least, make brightline rules (for instance, "no porn games" or what have you), don't differentiate one game just because you dislike the content when the same level of violence (in this case) can be found in other games.

There are already discussion rules based off the rules set down by the ad providers and ad buyers. Let alone the personal choices of the owners of particular sites.

If you want a completely open forum, then put the money up to let it run. There is no single forum on the internet that's fully open. Even 4chan has banned topics.

 

[meanspartan]

I don't think the problem is with the violence per se but with how violence is used and what sort of narrative is framing that violence. One (?) of the developers have also been known to visit neo-Nazi sites because he claims he has no time and wants "balanced news".

It's the same for Criminal Girls. Many Vita games have anime women in weird compromising situations with suggestive artwork to go along with it. What pushes it over is that these girls look like they're ten years old, have been imprisoned for being bad girls, with the final straw of being able to BDSM them into submission.

That is exactly the sort of thing someone who values freedom of speech would not differentiate based on though.

again, Neogaf has no obligation to abide by the 1st amendment as it only applies to government regulation of speech. But it is laudable to value it even if you don't have to.

 

[meanspartan]

There are already discussion rules based off the rules set down by the ad providers and ad buyers. Let alone the personal choices of the owners of particular sites.

If you want a completely open forum, then put the money up to let it run. There is no single forum on the internet that's fully open. Even 4chan has banned topics.

Fair enough.

Hope this dies a death.
Gaming doesn't need shit like this. And its different than films like VHS or other torture porn flicks as you are an active participant in the murders.

Uggggh this is the same logic used by guys like Thompson for decades.....

Ironic its turned against a game that crosses the line by gamers themselves.

I'll be glad if Hatred just goes away quietly, but I don't think I'd use that argument. There are people out there that said a similar sentence when Grand Theft Auto 3 came out.

 

[Gamezone]

Why does this game exist? :/

Because it`s fun to play?

 

[Chariot]

why does it have to be american? pretty sure the guy with the most kills is Norwegian.

Nut he was an political xenophobic extremist, it was shit agenda and by no means an excuse for anything. But the States have a lot of nut jobs who just killed dozens of people with no agenda at all.

 

[HanaChie]

Reading steam greenlight page full of concerned people was hillarious. I can't wait to play this game. Hatred devs couldn't get better promotion from media.

And its different than films like VHS or other torture porn flicks as you are an active participant in the murders.

lmao

 

[Backfoggen]

Shitty game with a shitty intent.

You played it already?

 

[aspiegamer]

Question! For mods I guess?

I entirely understand not wanting to discuss game content here but what about discussion of the politics of the game? The objective, not the subjective game content. For example, a lot of this thread would probably be okay-ish because it's a discussion of it it as a gaming news story.

If it's a blanket ban on all things Hatred and other/similar games listed in the ModBot post quoted, the clarification would be appreciated.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

why does it have to be american? pretty sure the guy with the most kills is Norwegian.

I guess the trench coat and voice just made me think of american shooters. But, you're right. He also appears to be in an asian country in the game.

 

[Riposte]

Hope this dies a death.
Gaming doesn't need shit like this. And its different than films like VHS or other torture porn flicks as you are an active participant in the murders.

I don't think this or gaming issues in general has anything to do with "needing" things.

 

[Despera]

So basically it's a game where you play as the villain, which in this case is a sick fuck who murders innocent people.

Can someone give me a legit reason why this game should be banned from discussion?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

What about this Freedom of speech?

Wut

How old are you?

 

[Green Card]

Wut

How old are you?

How old are you? We already had a number of people jump on him for posting that. No need to beat a dead horse.

 

[meanspartan]

So basically it's a game where you play as the villain, which in this case is a sick fuck who murders innocent people.

Can someone give me a legit reason why this game should be banned from discussion?

I've been arguing the other side but sure.

It's harmful to Neogaf to be associated with a game like this in any way, and may turn off advertisers.

 

[FyreWulff]

So basically it's a game where you play as the villain, which in this case is a sick fuck who murders innocent people.

Can someone give me a legit reason why this game should be banned from discussion?

Because the people paying for the site to continuing working don't want to?

Nobody is compelled to host a discussion on any topic in their private property.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

There are already discussion rules based off the rules set down by the ad providers and ad buyers. Let alone the personal choices of the owners of particular sites.

If you want a completely open forum, then put the money up to let it run. There is no single forum on the internet that's fully open. Even 4chan has banned topics.

Yeah I think at one point in time we were having problems with using vulgarities and talking about certain topics and Evilore said that it was more important for us to be able to speak the way we wanted or something like that. It's been a few years.

That is exactly the sort of thing someone who values freedom of speech would not differentiate based on though.

again, Neogaf has no obligation to abide by the 1st amendment as it only applies to government regulation of speech. But it is laudable to value it even if you don't have to.

I think ultimately it depends on whether the topic is worth having and whether it is worth discussing. Anyone can say anything they can but that doesn't mean that the discussion of games like Hatred has any worth in it.

I don't really care whether Hatred and Criminal Girls are banned from this forum. What I agree with are the reasons behind the ban and that this two games have very questionable material. If they're allowed to be talk about I just won't go into the thread or reply if the topic doesn't interest me.

 

[Green Card]

Because the people paying for the site to continuing working don't want to?

Nobody is compelled to host a discussion on any topic in their private property.

Great insight. I'm sure he couldn't figure out that they didn't want to.

 

[Squire]

Fair enough.



Uggggh this is the same logic used by guys like Thompson for decades.....

Ironic its turned against a game that crosses the line by gamers themselves.

I'll be glad if Hatred just goes away quietly, but I don't think I'd use that argument. There are people out there that said a similar sentence when Grand Theft Auto 3 came out.

Yes, because clearly Hatred is following in the footsteps of GTA3. Same artistic intent and everything; History repeating itself right before our very eyes.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Fair enough.

Uggggh this is the same logic used by guys like Thompson for decades.....

Ironic its turned against a game that crosses the line by gamers themselves.

I'll be glad if Hatred just goes away quietly, but I don't think I'd use that argument. There are people out there that said a similar sentence when Grand Theft Auto 3 came out.

Thompson wants violent games to be banned. Neogaf's administration just decided that the game is questionable and shouldn't be given any space. I don't think they care whether the game is sold or not and even if they do they're not asking the authorities to ban the game. Very different situations.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I found a blog post on the lovely people behind this game:

• CEO and Animator Jarosław Zieliński has prominently displayed an endorsement on his public Facebook page of the Polska Liga Obrony: an established nationalist Islamophobic, anti-immigration hate group.
  Gameplay designer Jakub Stychno is a supporter of the fascistic Obóz Narodowo Radykalny, as well as the homophobic, nationalistic Młodzież Wszechpolska.
  
• FX artist Marcin Kaźmierczak is also a supporter of Młodzież Wszechpolska, and of several anti-social justice, anti-gay Facebook pages. (Including a right-wing boycott of a Polish boxer who supports gay rights.)
  
• Level designer and lighting artist Cyprian Listowski has another job as a tattoo designer; two of his original designs include symbolism commonly associated with right-wing groups. One depicts a sonnenrad, a sunwheel symbol popular among Neo-Nazis. The other incorporates a słoneczko (an Early Slavic variation on the swastika appropriated by nationalists) and an “othala rune”, framed within a larger “life rune”.

Couple this with a trailer featuring a white guy killing minorities and the name "Hatred" and you really have to question Valve's judgment when they allow this game on their platform.