Hatred receives rare "Adults Only" (AO) rating from ESRB for violence and language

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Gamers can contextualize extreme violence for a lot of reasons. In Uncharted, the sarcastic, lighthearted tone drastically overshadows the murdering of perceived bad guys who are viewed not as men being killed but as a gameplay mechanic locking the player from the next action scene or cutscene.

In GTA, the player is put into the role as an anti-hero - a person who has generally good intentions as we understand them but is willing to do things a traditional hero wouldn't, as in murdering. I do feel it's important to point out that anti-heroes often don't harm innocent people, or try to reduce the harm inflicted on innocent people and show remorse over harm done to innocent people. Plus, like Uncharted, the freedom to kill or rob practically anybody in GTA is seen as either a way to more quickly achieve a goal, or to simply test the limits of the game.

In something like Manhunt or Hotline Miami, a specific condemnation of a subject is present to give context for the player to feel a level is disgust in the actions they are participating in but also as a means to force the player to witness/do these things. The point of killing in games like these is to point out how wrong it is and how fractured a person must be to do it. It isn't glorifying violence, but using the extreme visuals to show how terrible it is.

Something like Hatred, from everything we know, doesn't try to contextualize the violence through narrative justification. It doesn't have a tone that undermines the violence, but one that amplifies it. Hatred isn't about condemning violence, but rather celebrating it as a valid expression. To me, there isn't anything even subjectively quantifiable that can be used an an example of the game having a merit. It exists, at best, to elicit an extreme reaction from players; and at worse, it's a pointed acknowledgement of some of the most base and insidious sentiments a person can have.

The idea that somebody is less than human because they have a different skin tone, religious belief or cultural/sexual nature to them being reason enough to commit murder is something that should not be condoned or supported. And just as troubling is the notion that expressing one's anger by killing, whether random or based on biases, is just as toxic an idea to support.

Hatred seems to possibly be both. Everybody has a right to make the art they want and support the art they want. But art shouldn't be attributed value because it exists.
 
Seems like Hatred is today's Commando Libya (C64).

While the game was far from state-of-the-art both graphic and soundwise, it approached notoriety with its "bonus level": After every level successfully completed, the game would display a line of POWs stood against a wall. The player can then execute them freely by simply holding the fire button and moving the joystick sideways. The game doesn't continue until all enemies have been shot.

The final touch in the game is the entry of initials for the high score. The letters appear on the shirts of three figures on their way to a guillotine. Upon entering the letters, the figures go through decapitation one-by-one.

The game underlines its intention to be obnoxious by labeling itself "The sadism game of the year" on the title screen, while the scrolling mission statement at the bottom says "The only thing you have to do, is to shoot humans...". The game itself also displays some sarcastic remarks (in bad English) at the end of each level, such as "That's funn!" (sic), "What a nice bonus" (upon finishing the "execution") or "That were Ghadaffi's children".
 
If you change the innocent people to bandits, drug dealers this could work as a Punisher game.
the-punisher-vol-8-20110708040319684-000.jpg

Yeah, I mean why are we labeling npc's who beg for their lives as innocent? Swap the palettes, and bam it's a gritty realistic gang war simulator.
 
I'm sorry, but moral universalism is not a meta-ethical position I subscribe to. Moral relativism is my stance.

But that's a whole other thing I don't want to get into. At the end of the day, I have no personal issue with the contents of Hatred, but can completely understand why someone would. Those people should avoid the game.

Moral Relativism is self defeating though.
 
All three major console manufacturer—Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo—have a policy that forbids publishing Adults Only-rated games on their platforms, so unless Destructive Creations changes to content in Hatred, we won't see it released on the Xbox One and PlayStation 4.

This sentence makes no sense to me. In the UK many games are obviously rated 18, which is the highest here? So what is the difference between an '18' and 'AO' (which is an 18?)

Both allow 18+ rated games on the platforms.
 
This sentence makes no sense to me. In the UK many games are obviously rated 18, which is the highest here? So what is the difference between an '18' and 'AO' (which is an 18?)

Both allow 18+ rated games on the platforms.

a UK/PEGI 18+ is comparable to a US M (17+) rating.
UK doesn't have a rating comparable to AO as far as I know, which most of the time is reserved for games with explicit sexual content.
 
This sentence makes no sense to me. In the UK many games are obviously rated 18, which is the highest here? So what is the difference between an '18' and 'AO' (which is an 18?)

Both allow 18+ rated games on the platforms.
There is a difference between "mature" and "Adult Only". I guess most violent games are mature.
 
Base morality is universal. The say otherwise is inhuman.

Morality is entirely founded on social conditioning. There is no universal element to "base morality". In fact, you can argue that defining things purely on a moral grounds is inhuman, due to how flabby that body of justifications is.
 
The thing with Gta and most other games compared is that the aims of those games are survival, money or some other goal. Hatreds protagonist seems to be solely aiming to kill as many innocent people as possible with the only desire to hurt people. There seems no sense of satire or commentary just reveling the suffering of others.

Also many of gtas inspirations are crime thrillers, this seems inspired by real world shootings (srsly do you think a film about someone shooting innocents for no reason would fly even if it was well directed?)

The games developer doesn't even have a good reputation and gameplay doesn't look interesting at all.

I think the game has every right to exist but no one has to sell and I have every right to worry about the morality of anyone who finds this game extremely appealing.
 
Are the people posting with shitty examples totally unaware of the history of the products they're touting? The Punisher example is especially hilarious since the character had a game that was toned down to avoid an AO rating.

No Russian was incredibly controversial. It wasn't regarded as just some COD level, and that actually lets you be totally passive. The COD comparisons only work if the entire games were No Russian levels. Most of the violence in those games are PG-13esque. Certainly not putting the gun in the mouth of a suburban housewife comparable.
 
That's the funny part. It could have been acceptable for an M rating. CONTEXT!

Make fun of context all you want, but it could be the difference between killing somebody who was trying to murder an innocent person and killing somebody because you were in the mood to. To ignore context is irrational.
 
Game looks shitty anyway.

It's like a watered down, extremely basic schmup. You just kill people? Okay. Nothing else? Okay. Um, I don't want to play it.
 
Are the people posting with shitty examples totally unaware of the history of the products they're touting? The Punisher example is especially hilarious since the character had a game that was toned down to avoid an AO rating.

Thing is, was the AO rating received because of the level of violence or because of the killing of innocent people?
More than likely it was because of the latter. Hence my example, if you change the context of Hatred and has the protagonist to kill bad guys instead it would probably receive a M rating.
 
The thing with Gta and most other games compared is that the aims of those games are survival, money or some other goal. Hatreds protagonist seems to be solely aiming to kill as many innocent people as possible with the only desire to hurt people. There seems no sense of satire or commentary just reveling the suffering of others.

Tons of people already do this in GTA style games without needing any kind of context whatsoever. That's why I was initially interested in Hatred anyway, because it seems to encapsulate the "open world rampage". Something I've been doing and enjoying in games myself since GTA III. Narrative context helps me enjoy a game more, but I don't get how context allows people to justify/accept their actions in games. You're still killing pixels at the end of the day either way.
 
Thing is, was the AO rating received because of the level of violence or because of the killing of innocent people?
More than likely it was because of the latter. Hence my example, if you change the context of Hatred and has the protagonist to kill bad guys instead it would probably receive a M rating.

And you do not think the context in which the violence is committed has any relevance?

I won't speak for the developer's intentions, but they are probably not very unique to similar dark, perhaps nihilistic material in this and other mediums. Perhaps it's just an exploration of a taboo idea. Could very well be to elicit internal disgust and experience that comes with having to deal with that. Or maybe it's to grab attention and make their game stand out more. Functionally, it may be all of these things as people create their own meaning.

As for games in general (which are not quite like Hatred, and, as someone criticized (to make a vacant point, as I replied), may "justify" their violent actions towards human characters), humans, even fake humans we choose to believe in only to a point, are very engaging (by and far much more engaging than abstract blobs and shapes). Unpleasant things happen in our games because unpleasant things are interesting or their unpleasantness is diminished in the fiction (either in the short-term, as in the fakeness of the game, or the long-term, where even the worse actions are not damaging once you step away from the fantasy).
Can you give me an example of a "dark and nihilistic material" in another medium that aims solely to "elicit internal disgust"?
In the second part of your post you actually admit that humans shapes do register to us as human, and we can feel something about them that is beyond mere pixels and polygons. And you say "unpleasant things are interesting", but again you do not explain what it the value of this unpleasantness - Because if it's the fake aspect, why would the game go to such length to make the violence so vivid? This game is celebration of violence again humans, and I can't understand how it can be seen as anything but.
 
The difference between M and Adult Only makes absolutely no sense to me. This game would have got an 18 rating over here and nobody would have cared.
 
Make fun of context all you want, but it could be the difference between killing somebody who was trying to murder an innocent person and killing somebody because you were in the mood to. To ignore context is irrational.
I wasn't trying to ignore and make fun of it though and I agree that context is important. So important that I wanted to present it in all caps. Sorry if that came out a bit sarcastic?
 
I wasn't trying to ignore and make fun of it though and I agreed that context is important. So important that I wanted to present it in all caps. Sorry if that came out a bit sarcastic?

Sorry if I was a little...aggressive. I just think it's important to at least try to understand the fundamental difference between a game like Hatred and a game like GTA. Or a game like Custer's Revenge and a basic dating sim. Strip away context and emphasis, and you can make many things appear equal, and I think it's intellectually dishonest. It may be difficult to explain the nuanced difference between the freedom to kill in GTA and the freedom to kill in Hatred, but I think it's a distinction worth noting.
 
The thing with Gta and most other games compared is that the aims of those games are survival, money or some other goal. Hatreds protagonist seems to be solely aiming to kill as many innocent people as possible with the only desire to hurt people. There seems no sense of satire or commentary just reveling the suffering of others.

Also many of gtas inspirations are crime thrillers, this seems inspired by real world shootings (srsly do you think a film about someone shooting innocents for no reason would fly even if it was well directed?)

The games developer doesn't even have a good reputation and gameplay doesn't look interesting at all.

I think the game has every right to exist but no one has to sell and I have every right to worry about the morality of anyone who finds this game extremely appealing.

Contexts in games are extremely flimsy. Sure, looking at the story mode GTA provides a kind of valid context, but then you'll have very, very many players that play GTA that also kill loads of people in as many ways as they can outside of missions.

The earlier GTA games had even less of that and played more like this game.

Now I get why people would be uncomfortable playing this, that they need to have a context to play with to feel comfortable. But I think this game is barely any different than what is already out there. We kill in games because we think it is fun, not because we are searching for treasure/earning money/taking out competition or whatever you think.

We seem to be especially fond of gory execution moves.

And you do not think the context in which the violence is committed has any relevance?


Can you give me an example of a "dark and nihilistic material" in another medium that aims solely to "elicit internal disgust"?

A Serbian Film perhaps. I enjoyed it.

EDIT: I don't know if this thread is allowed on purpose, but I think it is good that it can be discussed.
 
Something like Hatred, from everything we know, doesn't try to contextualize the violence through narrative justification. It doesn't have a tone that undermines the violence, but one that amplifies it. Hatred isn't about condemning violence, but rather celebrating it as a valid expression. To me, there isn't anything even subjectively quantifiable that can be used as an example of the game having a merit. It exists, at best, to elicit an extreme reaction from players; and at worst, it's a pointed acknowledgement of some of the most basic and insidious sentiments a person can have.
What if it's the dev's intention to leave contextualization of the narrative open to interpretation? What if their approach is to neither condemn nor celebrate, but to simply present.

In the case of Hatred, the dev team may have some sinister agendas behind the veil of this project (which I'm still checking out right now to make sure I've got everything correctly). But in general I see nothing wrong with the notion of a game where you play a villain who goes around killing innocent people violently and where the only immediately provided context is the obvious fact that he or she's a psychopath.
 
Tons of people already do this in GTA style games without needing any kind of context whatsoever. That's why I was initially interested in Hatred anyway, because it seems to encapsulate the "open world rampage". Something I've been doing and enjoying in games myself since GTA III. Narrative context helps me enjoy a game more, but I don't get how context allows people to justify/accept their actions in games. You're still killing pixels at the end of the day either way.

In GTA you kill innocent pixels on your way to the goal.

In Hatred killing innocent pixels is the goal.
 
And you do not think the context in which the violence is committed has any relevance?


Can you give me an example of a "dark and nihilistic material" in another medium that aims solely to "elicit internal disgust"?

I don't know what something aims for (nor does that really matter in the end), but what I can remember off the top of my head would be the films Rampage and Portrait of a Serial Killer. Not really the type of movie I go for, so I can't recall some favorites or anything lol.

And you say "unpleasant things are interesting", but again you do not explain what it the value of this unpleasantness - Because if it's the fake aspect, why would the game go to such length to make the violence so vivid? This game is celebration of violence again humans, and I can't understand how it can be seen as anything but.

I'd ultimately have to play the game to see what I value from it. It seems kind of dumb so far, but maybe there's something more antagonistic to the chaos you can cause (like fighting off cops in a tense situation, not unlike GTA).

The fakeness is not the point, but allows you to experience things that too disgusting, harmful, or taboo for you to do otherwise, such as violence against humans. I don't quite understand your use of celebration or even why it needs to be seen as something more than violence against humans. Obviously, it's distasteful, but I'm sure that's the point.
 
In GTA you kill innocent pixels on your way to the goal.

In Hatred killing innocent pixels is the goal.

In GTA I kill innocent people because it's fun. Killing people and making mayhem is at many times my only goal. Many people play the game the same. I just don't see what difference it makes if people are still doing the same exact actions in-game.
 
No they've been pretty well documented actually. Hell the main devs unlikely explanation of liking a post from one of these polish far right groups was that they had great insight on the middle east.

anyone have the link to that Kotaku article that talked about this with a Polish expert on the far right? On the phone and I can't find it at the moment.

I searched, and apparently it's an article published by Polygon

In an effort to learn more about the social landscape in Poland, and to properly understand the political leanings of several members of the Hatred development team, Polygon reached out to Never Again, an organization that monitors Polish hate groups. They describe the groups which members of the Hatred team "like" on Facebook as racist, neo-fascist and violent.

The fact that several members of the Hatred development team openly like multiple extreme right groups on Facebook shows, to Pankowski at least, that they are supportive of these groups’ ideals.

For instance, the CEO of Destructive Creations Jaroslaw Zielinski defended his right to like an organization called Polska Liga Obrony, or the Polish Defense League, on Facebook. He has previously stated to Polygon that "it's source of an information [about] what is going on right now in the middle-east and Europe (and a lot of evil shit is going on) … Some things media would not show, nor tell."

Zielinski went on to stress that his like was not a form of endorsement.

"That doesn’t sound convincing at all," Pankowski said. He classifies the Polish Defense League as an "anti-muslim organization" with "Islamophobic, anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant" tendencies. He emphasized the militant aspect of the group, saying that they’ve gone out of their way to intimidate and physically harass non-whites in public spaces.

Facebook likes, Pankowski says, are more than just a way for big corporations to build their brand and create a following. Radical political organizations gather their support there as well, and liking the Polish Defense League fuels their particular brand of hatred in a direct way.

"One of the books that I wrote," Pankowski says, "which was my [doctoral] dissertation a few years back, was about racism in pop culture. … It’s possible to have a philosophical discussion about what liking something on Facebook means, but I understand it and I think many people would understand it in this way; it’s a form of endorsement. It’s a form of association."

Aside from the Polish Defense League, much more troubling to Pankowski were the likes of Marcin Kazmiercz, the FX artist at Destructive Creations. His Facebook profile included even more radical, extreme-right organizations than Zielinski’s.

One such example was the Oboz Narodowo-Radykalny, or the ONR. Pankowski says the ONR is a fascist organization banned by the Polish government in the 1934. The group was reformulated in just the past few years, in the south of Poland, by a group of skinheads.

"It became a national organization once again," Pankowski, "and is clearly linked with violence, anti-semitism and with racism. It’s name itself translates to ‘National Radical Camp.’ For a time its Facebook profile was actually taken offline by Facebook… precisely for the promotion of hatred against minorities."

It was associations with groups like ONR that lead many to publicly denounce Kazmiercz and the team at Destructive Creations as neo-Nazis. But Kazmiercz lashed out at his attackers, saying in a statement on his company's website that he was adamantly against Nazism.

"Nazi Germany is responsible for killing 6 million people in Poland," he wrote on the company website. "Half of them were Jews, half of them Polish. My family suffered many losses during the World War II. Anybody accusing me for being a follower of said ideology should really think twice before doing so and consider reading some books on the topic."

But Never Again's Pankowski says the difference between calling groups like the ONR "neo-Nazi" versus "radical right" versus "neo-fascist" is merely a semantic debate.

"The defense that they make," Pankowski said, "is that ‘we are Polish’ and that ‘Nazism is a German thing. Therefore, we cannot be Nazis. This doesn’t make too much sense to me, but it is true in a way. Nazism was invented in Germany back in the day. But if you look at ONR’s ideology, in some ways it’s not so very different [from Nazism]. But it’s Polish.

"Certainly they don’t believe in the superiority of the German race. But they are very much hostile to different minorities living in Poland, and they don’t believe in a democratic system. So, in some ways, this ideology is similar to Nazism — or fascism, or extreme nationalism. There are different ways you could call it, but I think there is something in common. But they wouldn’t want to call themselves neo-Nazis, but I think in some ways they are not so different from the other versions of what you could call fascist or neo-fascist or extreme right ideology in other countries."

One event that Kazmiercz has said, via Facebook, he would be attending was the Marsz Niepodleglosci, or the Polish Independence Day March.

Pankowski says that the event, which sounds benign to Western ears, is in actuality organized by Mlodziez Wszechpolska, or the All-Polish Youth — another anti-semitic, racist youth organization.

As Pankowski tells it, the march, scheduled for Nov. 11 each year, has been co-opted by far-right political groups. It serves as little more than a flash point for violent extremist organizations to intimidate the Polish people. It’s become so successful that it has begun to attract groups from outside Poland.

"It’s an annual event for the last four or five years which actually gets bigger and bigger each year," Pankowski said. "By now, it’s a kind of international gathering of extreme-right and fascist groups. It’s not just a Polish event now — it also draws fascists from other countries such as Hungary.

"Each year it turns violent," Pankowski told Polygon. "Each year some participants attack people they consider their opponents. Last year they actually tried to burn down the Russian embassy. They succeeded only in burning the fence. But they also attacked the Polish police. They also burned a rainbow in Warsaw, a gay rights symbol that sat in the center of Warsaw.

"They just burned it down. It was a spectacular act of violence."

Lots more in the article. Please give them a click, because it's a great article.
 
In GTA you kill innocent pixels on your way to the goal.

In Hatred killing innocent pixels is the goal.

That would be more valid if you did not have many people killing civilians outside of missions. Throwing C4 around the place, slowly driving on the pavement, whatever, it is not exactly unheard of.

Besides, you have side missions in the GTA series where you got a weapon and had to rack up as many people as you could.
 
Sorry if I was a little...aggressive. I just think it's important to at least try to understand the fundamental difference between a game like Hatred and a game like GTA. Or a game like Custer's Revenge and a basic dating sim. Strip away context and emphasis, and you can make many things appear equal, and I think it's intellectually dishonest. It may be difficult to explain the nuanced difference between the freedom to kill in GTA and the freedom to kill in Hatred, but I think it's a distinction worth noting.
It is worth noting which is why I found it meaningfully funny that this game could still be what it is if they just changed it to a Punisher game or any other anti-hero like game. Maybe they would have to tone down the enemies begging for their lives but the base game would have still been accepted. Or maybe not because context required reasonable writing which I'm sure the devs lack.
 
Wasnt that more about rivals between different hooligan gangs and the police? Or could you kill innocents in that game as well? I think i played it back in the days actually, but i cant remember much from it.

I dont remember much too. But hooligans and neo-nazis are often connected.This review sums it up though:

http://www.actiontrip.com/reviews/hooligans-storm-over-europe.phtml

It is not easy being a gang leader. Your units will frequently be influenced by fear, alcohol and rage. Controlling your units in that state can be a tough task, but the game did not focus on this as much as it did on vandalism and senseless destruction of the cities you came to visit. Your main enemies come in the shape of the opposing team supporters, and of course, the police. Once you get to a new town, you first have to increase your gang by recruiting hooligans in local pubs. This is where you can buy several rounds of drinks to the locals and make them join you. Brothel is used for raising the morale of wounded units, dope shop is there for some additional incentive in hard missions, and the gun shop is where you arm your little army. The only way to obtain resources (�) is to break into shops and residences and loot them. So much about the educational and moral aspects of the game. You can use practically any building to hide from the cops and other enemies.
 
In GTA I kill innocent people because it's fun. Killing people and making mayhem is at many times my only goal.

Yeah, but that's your choice. It's not the developers' vision. The sandbox world gives you that option, but it isn't the sole point of the game.

In Hatred it's your only option.
 
a UK/PEGI 18+ is comparable to a US M (17+) rating.
UK doesn't have a rating comparable to AO as far as I know, which most of the time is reserved for games with explicit sexual content.

There is a difference between "mature" and "Adult Only". I guess most violent games are mature.

Sure, but 'Adult Only' is the same as saying 18. If a UK game is 18+, that amounts to the same as an AO, which is also 18+, they are just under different names, but both have a minimum age rating of 18+.

To say a platform holder refuses games for this makes no sense, because it means they refuse them based on the name of the rating, rather than the age restriction that comes with it, if that makes sense.

UK GTA SA = 18
US GTA SA = M (17+)

You see what I mean? AO is just 18 by another name, but 18 is fine for games here.
 
Yeah, but that's your choice. It's not the developers' vision. The sandbox world gives you that option, but it isn't the sole point of the game.

In Hatred it's your only option.

I'm actually curious. I wonder what happens if you decide to do nothing. Does it just become a very boring top-down sandbox?
 
A Serbian Film perhaps. I enjoyed it.

First example I'd guess would be given.
A Serbian Film received just as much criticism as Hatered if not more so. It is considered a horrible film and after watching it I must agree. The film was also not shown in many countries.
 
Yeah, but that's your choice. It's not the developers' vision. The sandbox world gives you that option, but it isn't the sole point of the game.

In Hatred it's your only option.

True, but I'm not some unique case. That's why the concept of this game doesn't bother me, I actually really like it on a conceptual level. Since many people do this shit in game's already, having a game built around it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
 
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