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[HappehLemons]

It's because they don't even want a discussion. So the only way to try to get it to stop, is to try to shout people down, and harass people until they break down and give up. If these people actually disagreed with her, then they could have debated the issues they don't agree on.

Sadly, I wish Anita didn't take the no discussion approach. The there is no room for debate on certain tropes or issues. That these ARE in fact 100% misogynistic. Her brand of criticism alienates and only gets people angry that don't agree. Because the reality is:

I. Not all feminists agree on the same things. That is important. So discussion is a good thing. And conversely, not all people agree on the same things.

II. The industry has a lot of people that are ignorant, due to a lack of knowing about these issues/problems.

III. A lot of people in the industry don't see the problems, because they are used to years and years of things being one way, so they are used to things being a certain way.

So your goal is then to, educate these people as to why these issues are a problem. Why they matter. Why you think the industry has to change. But if your approach is: this is 100% misogynistic. And there is no room for debate. You've already cut off feminists and people that might not agree with you (and by not allowing them to discuss it, they now view you as someone that is beyond reason, and not willing to have a conversation). You upset those that are used to things having been that way for years years. Who are now being told the things they like or the things they do are 100% misogynistic. And you turn off those that have not yet been educated on it, because they might not always agree 1:1 with what you are saying (even if they might see your points on some things).

Basically, the approach is very problematic. I'm not a fan of it. And I think moving forward, those in games media and those that are activists, really need to start re-thinking how they are pushing these messages. Because I think they have been alienating to certain degrees.

---

All this said, when you have insane psychos that are not civil. When you consider that, just being female and speaking out about issues you have (regardless how you say it), you are by default going to get harassed and threatened. Well, I can't be too critical of they approach these things. But I personally don't think it's the right way to go about it. So this isn't a condemnation of Anita (I personally do not agree with some of her views, and I don't like her approach tbh. But I know the kind of shit she goes through, so I try not to be judgmental on how she approaches this, given the amount of shit she was going to get regardless just for speaking out). But I do look at like, Kotaku offering to have a counter argument editorial to her (where she would participate, and reply back to the counter argument). This would be 100% civil and a closed forum w/ civil people. And she declined. So eh. Based on what I've read of her (and interviews), I don't think she would have ever been open to discussion. Even if there was no psychos and trolls.

This is pretty much how I feel.

The psychopaths and threats do make me sick, and she doesn't deserve to be treated the way she is treated.

That said I don't like Anita that much either. I feel like there's a lot of issues and questions I and many other people have with her content who are interested in learning more about the problems she goes over that she completely ignores making it hard for us "newcommers" to understand and follow.

 

[Jigorath]

While i agree these threats are scummy

It's the internet, ppl say and do things that they'd never do irl

internet harassment is no big deal imo, just ignore it (unless its a dox)

Threatening her family and publishing her social security online isn't a big deal?

It's really easy to say "it's just the internet, ignore them" until you're the one getting harassed.

 

[Mononoke]

This is pretty much how I feel.

The psychopaths and threats do make me sick, and she doesn't deserve to be treated the way she is treated.

That said I don't like Anita that much either. I feel like there's a lot of issues and questions I and many other people have with her content who are interested in learning more about the problems she goes over that she completely ignores making it hard for us "newcommers" to understand and follow.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that is threatening/harassing or screaming others down, are scum and don't deserve to be acknowledged (I mean in terms of having a voice in any debate). They don't even want a debate to happen. That is the whole point to their actions.

That said, as someone that really really believes this industry has issues with sexism/racism among other things. I do want this industry to change. I want us to progress. I just don't always agree with how people are going about doing it. I've seen games media sites writing opinion pieces that are like " this is how it is, and if you don't agree, you are sexist or get out of the way". Or "you are with us or against us". I really think it's a mistake to that combative approach.

Personally, I do not get why Anita gets an ounce of the hate she does. People's obsession with her as a person, is beyond crazy. If you have an issue with her content, how she presents her ideas. If you don't agree with all of her ideas. Fine. But anyone that focuses on the money she's made, her as a person, I just can't even take them seriously.

Threatening her family and publishing her social security online isn't a big deal?

It's really easy to say "it's just the internet, ignore them" until you're the one getting harassed.

People downplaying harassment and threats, are really something. As if...it was ever okay when famous people had this happen to them as well? And this whole "that's just reality". "It comes with the territory". Just, ugh.

 

[cripterion]

These comments... No words.

Still don't understand why Twitter is so popular, this is one of the worst shit to come out of the internet over these last years.

 

[Mononoke]

These comments... No words.

Still don't understand why Twitter is so popular, this is one of the worst shit to come out of the internet over these last years.

Twitter has done an awful job running and monitoring their site. People should stop using it out of principle. They've been IMO very irresponsible in how they've ran things (allowing certain accounts to stay active, when the people running them are using it to promote illegal activities).

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Absolutely awful.

And some people are still insisting she's faking her own harassment for some ridiculous reason. Talk about a disconnect from reality.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Why not contact their mummies? That will solve everything.

One woman (not Anita, a separate journalist) did that and is now being sued by one of those mothers.

Terrible thing

 

[Heavy_D_Forever]

Does Twitter force her to see everything tweeted at her when she logs in? I'm genuinely curious as I don't use Twitter.

 

[Mononoke]

One woman (not Anita, a separate journalist) did that and is now being sued by one of those mothers.

Terrible thing

WTF. How did that happen? Or rather....what was her grounds for the lawsuit?

 

[BlackBuzzard]

I got an idea for a a Youtube show elderly people react to hateful tweets directed at Anita Sarkeesian. Aaaaannnnnddd the Fine bros just stole that idea.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

One woman (not Anita, a separate journalist) did that and is now being sued by one of those mothers.

Terrible thing

Really? On what grounds? First i've heard of this.

 

[Mononoke]

Really? On what grounds? First i've heard of this.

Same here. Very curious what she's actually suing for? This is crazy.

This is all I could find

http://www.themarysue.com/game-journalist-not-being-sued/

But never heard of the Mary Sue....

Double edit: Think this is the journalist, and her tweets suggest she isn't getting sued?

https://twitter.com/Charalanahzard/status/540001186712010755

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Same here. Very curious what she's actually suing for? This is crazy.

This is all I could find

http://www.themarysue.com/game-journalist-not-being-sued/

But never heard of the Mary Sue....

Double edit: Think this is the journalist, and her tweets suggest she isn't getting sued?

https://twitter.com/Charalanahzard/status/540001186712010755

Yeah, seems like a satire site ran the story, and others picked it up not realizing that it was satire.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Same here. Very curious what she's actually suing for? This is crazy.

This is all I could find

http://www.themarysue.com/game-journalist-not-being-sued/

But never heard of the Mary Sue....

Double edit: Think this is the journalist, and her tweets suggest she isn't getting sued?

https://twitter.com/Charalanahzard/status/540001186712010755

Ah, that's good.

I hadn't heard much about it since then, guess that's why.

 

[komplanen]

Gut wrenching feeling reading some of those. I can't believe some people are so horrible :-(

 

[Mononoke]

Ah, that's good.

I hadn't heard much about it since then, guess that's why.

It's sad that, you could totally believe that she would get sued though. Jesus. Getting to a point where, even the ridiculous is totally believable given how shitty people are.

 

[Warewolf]

What a fucking warrior. Fight the good fight.

 

[ivysaur12]

I would love to see what would happen if these kids were at their lunch table in middle school, and Anita and the kids's mother and father just sit down next to him as Anita reads him back all the tweets he sent her.

 

[Oersted]

This is pretty much how I feel.

The psychopaths and threats do make me sick, and she doesn't deserve to be treated the way she is treated.

That said I don't like Anita that much either. I feel like there's a lot of issues and questions I and many other people have with her content who are interested in learning more about the problems she goes over that she completely ignores making it hard for us "newcommers" to understand and follow.

For you, as a "newcomer":
You don't have to distance yourself from her with "I don't like her". You can do such distance dance with racists, warmongerers, sexists in short despicable humans. When you post that about a feminist who makes harmless videos, it makes you look... off.
She is receiving some absurd amount of hate over videos. She received it already during the Kickstarter, way before there was any content.

 

[Sober]

Does Twitter force her to see everything tweeted at her when she logs in? I'm genuinely curious as I don't use Twitter.

It's like any other social media site, it ends up collecting in your notifications. You have to sift through all that vile shit while trying to just go about your day or trying to find a real discussion you were having.

 

[Lemondish]

It's because they don't even want a discussion. So the only way to try to get it to stop, is to try to shout people down, and harass people until they break down and give up. If these people actually disagreed with her, then they could have debated the issues they don't agree on.

Sadly, I wish Anita didn't take the no discussion approach. The there is no room for debate on certain tropes or issues. That these ARE in fact 100% misogynistic. Her brand of criticism alienates and only gets people angry that don't agree. Because the reality is:

I. Not all feminists agree on the same things. That is important. So discussion is a good thing. And conversely, not all people agree on the same things.

II. The industry has a lot of people that are ignorant, due to a lack of knowing about these issues/problems.

III. A lot of people in the industry don't see the problems, because they are used to years and years of things being one way, so they are used to things being a certain way.

So your goal is then to, educate these people as to why these issues are a problem. Why they matter. Why you think the industry has to change. But if your approach is: this is 100% misogynistic. And there is no room for debate. You've already cut off feminists and people that might not agree with you (and by not allowing them to discuss it, they now view you as someone that is beyond reason, and not willing to have a conversation). You upset those that are used to things having been that way for years years. Who are now being told the things they like or the things they do are 100% misogynistic. And you turn off those that have not yet been educated on it, because they might not always agree 1:1 with what you are saying (even if they might see your points on some things).

Basically, the approach is very problematic. I'm not a fan of it. And I think moving forward, those in games media and those that are activists, really need to start re-thinking how they are pushing these messages. Because I think they have been alienating to certain degrees.

I've seen a few posts like this that attempt to sum up the situation and offer some sort of criticism under a purportedly 'helpful' veil about how Anita isn't doing X right, or Anita isn't doing Y the way she should, or the forever abused "it's about education!". I'm not sure that's as helpful as you think it is. In most of these types of posts, the writer seems to implicitly accept that Anita Sarkeesian is the reigning hegemon of feminism, that we should all know this as self-evident, and that other such ridiculous notions should simply be assumed to be correct. If your position begins by saying we need discussion but criticizes Anita for not being the source of that discussion, you're essentially laying the responsibility for moderating this industry wide problem at her feet. That doesn't seem like how this shit is supposed to work. Anita is not the judge, she's just one damn voice.

Accept her view as only ONE of a myriad of perspectives and not the prime directive of all feminists everywhere (which should be obvious given your own recognition that not everyone agrees on the same points). Is it really up to Anita to shift her perspective to attempt to create a discussion when it should be pretty fucking obvious that stepping in and doing it yourself is really what this should be about? If we accept that we can play a role that isn't simply subservient to one person's reach, we could actually have that discussion you're talking about. We could actually have those voices engaged. Maybe they don't include Anita, which is perfectly fine, but the goal is to have engaged parties become equal stakeholders and not just a bunch of folks on the Internet unwilling to get involved but fully capable of throwing criticism from behind their wall of apathy.

It's the Internet activist equivalent of bitching about elected officials while you never vote or become engaged at a higher level. You want this discussion to change? Fucking act on it.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Ugh, this is horrible. I still don't really understand why all these idiots hate her so much though. Do they understand what feminism or equality means?!

 

[Unit 33]

These people are just horrible.

 

[Bastables]

Ugh, this is horrible. I still don't really understand why all these idiots hate her so much though. Do they understand what feminism or equality means?!

The darkest conclusion is that they do "understand", which is why horrifyingly they're "fighting" so hard.

 

[Booshka]

Still chuckling at the, "Quikscope u IRL." comment.

 

[kmax]

Those were all pretty much disgusting, but this one made me chuckle a little.

I'm sure Miss. Sarkeesian is going

"Not gay porn. Please, mr nobody!"

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Ha ha wow. I wonder what their Mums would say.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Sadly, I wish Anita didn't take the no discussion approach. The there is no room for debate on certain tropes or issues. That these ARE in fact 100% misogynistic. Her brand of criticism alienates and only gets people angry that don't agree.

How is she not open to discussion? Her videos are literally a primer for a discussion in the industry?

Please don't respond about Youtube comments.

 

[hotnheavyload]

Children and Twitter, what's there to like?

 

[Bastables]

Still chuckling at the, "Quikscope u IRL." comment.

bet he thinks he runs faster with a knife. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCBRzB2cMrw

 

[Memory]

Couldnt go further than a few messeges, things like this remind me of how the world really is. These people hiding behind their online personas expressing their true views. Disgusting animals.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Hey guys, we're good. Death and rape threats are made daily - and that's what gaming is about! - so there's nothing wrong with that.


I wonder, what's the chance that when reported to police, the police would do something about those individuals? Those are death and rape threats after all. Written publicly by (very often) not so anonymous people and targeted toward a certain person.

Those were all pretty much disgusting, but this one made me chuckle a little.

I'm sure Miss. Sarkeesian is going

"Not gay porn. Please, mr nobody!"

Oh my, gay porn. He would put gay porn everywhere! The most vile thing in the universe!

 

[fabricated backlash]

How is she not open to discussion? Her videos are literally a primer for a discussion in the industry?

Please don't respond about Youtube comments.

Getting a discussion started isn't the same as participating in it. And her video series was never conceived as a discussion but as a presentation of her findings.

I think it's unfair and counter productive to expect her to join a public discussion about her work, when she hasn't even finished it yet. Unless she believes that each of her videos provides enough material to discuss on it's own (which I personally don't agree with, because dissemination of the following points are already tainted due to the toxic shit surrounding it) before introducing the next point.

Of course she could just as well transform her video series into a reactionary format, that actually takes criticism into account and works with that, which would actually make those videos part of an ongoing public discussion.

 

[Shari]

Hey guys, we're good. Death and rape threats are made daily - and that's what gaming is about! - so there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't mean to play devil's advocate but what the tweet says is that is has nothing to do with gender, not that is actually ok to do it.

 

[Omikaru]

I managed to read through the first day and got the picture. Jesus Christ. If I had that volume of messages in general on my Twitter I'd probably struggle. Just having that amount of threats sounds unbearable.

I've always admired Sarkeesian. The fact that she puts up with this shit (and worse) on a daily basis, yet continues to do what she does, only makes me admire and respect her more.

 

[Mohonky]

I honestly doubt those posts came from anyone older than 15.

 

[HappehLemons]

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that is threatening/harassing or screaming others down, are scum and don't deserve to be acknowledged (I mean in terms of having a voice in any debate). They don't even want a debate to happen. That is the whole point to their actions.

That said, as someone that really really believes this industry has issues with sexism/racism among other things. I do want this industry to change. I want us to progress. I just don't always agree with how people are going about doing it. I've seen games media sites writing opinion pieces that are like " this is how it is, and if you don't agree, you are sexist or get out of the way". Or "you are with us or against us". I really think it's a mistake to that combative approach.

Personally, I do not get why Anita gets an ounce of the hate she does. People's obsession with her as a person, is beyond crazy. If you have an issue with her content, how she presents her ideas. If you don't agree with all of her ideas. Fine. But anyone that focuses on the money she's made, her as a person, I just can't even take them seriously.



People downplaying harassment and threats, are really something. As if...it was ever okay when famous people had this happen to them as well? And this whole "that's just reality". "It comes with the territory". Just, ugh.

For you, as a "newcomer":
You don't have to distance yourself from her with "I don't like her". You can do such distance dance with racists, warmongerers, sexists in short despicable humans. When you post that about a feminist who makes harmless videos, it makes you look... off.
She is receiving some absurd amount of hate over videos. She received it already during the Kickstarter, way before there was any content.

She's just seems so extreme to me it's hard for me to follow her. A better way of saying it is I really dislike the way she discusses the issues she goes over, because I am interested in them but I feel like it would be impossible for me to have a conversation with her considering on how extreme and one sided she makes things out to be.

For someone like me who didn't give a second thought to this kind of stuff, then learning that representation of women was so poorly done in this medium only by her videos basically making it out to be so blatant you'd have to be blind or heartless to not notice

I watch her content and the reactions to most of it and I feel like most vocal people are of the mindset:

"Finally! Someone talking about these issues! Ugh, I hate that people aren't backing her up with these pressing issues, they're so obvious!"

or

"I'm going to kill this bitch"

And I'm at, and I feel like the not-so-vocal majority is at

"This actually seem like issues that have gone over my head in the past that I'd like to learn more about, but I'd like to hear multiple less extreme perspectives on the subject."

And I truly feel like Anita has the influence and popularity to draw these people in by opening up a bit more with her content.

I like that Anita brings up these subjects, and I like that she's continuing despite everything that comes her way. I don't hate her, but I don't like how there's a community of people that aren't crazy who want to learn more who aren't extremists or well versed in the subject. I'm unhappy with her because she's failing to educate a lot of people because she isn't willing to have a discussions or talk about other reasonable perspectives on the matters she goes over.

To me it seems like she's only trying to service the people who already are on her side and agree with her views rather then inform people who want to learn more about the subject which makes me dislike her content, and I suppose this has left me with a sour opinion of her as well.

 

[HMD]

The human race sure is great.

It's a bunch of first world teenagers that shape their personalities through their enjoyment of interactive entertainment... so think about what you just said.

 

[grandjedi6]

I would love to see what would happen if these kids were at their lunch table in middle school, and Anita and the kids's mother and father just sit down next to him as Anita reads him back all the tweets he sent her.

You assume these are all kids.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

I don't mean to play devil's advocate but what the tweet says is that is has nothing to do with gender, not that is actually ok to do it.

No, he (I presume it's he) wrote "You do not understand about gaming." as if death and rape threats were something completely normal in gaming world. They aren't and shouldn't be. But looking at all those tweets and people throwing things like "kill yourself", "I hope you die", "I'm gonna kill you", "I'll rape you" there are kids and adults that are completely fine with that and that's scary.

I mean, fuck this shit:

It's "in the culture of gaming"?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It may make it easier to swallow if you assume they're all kids, but I'd be willing to bet paper money that there are a significant number of adults doing this (and remember, this is just one week's worth). Some of these are undoubtedly someone's coworkers, bosses, spouses. etc.

 

[CambriaRising]

I honestly doubt those posts came from anyone older than 15.

You are naive then.

 

[DSN2K]

I wonder how much genuine hate there is behind these posts, I suspect 95% of them are just looking for a retweet on some perverse way. Fact she is now posting them will give kids even more incentive to tweet her abuse.

 

[Dahaka]

"these must be 12 years old", "teens", "kids", "preteens" comments always show a severe lack of life experience.

 

[joe2187]

She's just seems so extreme to me it's hard for me to follow her. A better way of saying it is I really dislike the way she discusses the issues she goes over, because I am interested in them but I feel like it would be impossible for me to have a conversation with her considering on how extreme and one sided she makes things out to be.

How is she considered extreme? I dont understand what your definition of "extreme" is.

I've watched her videos and she's doing nothing but offering a feminist and female perspective on the "tropes" in video games.

All I see is her explaining the trope, and talking about why it's overused/cliche/harmful/unncessasary

It's about as basic as you can get.

 

[HMD]

"these must be 12 years old", "teens", "kids", "preteens" comments always show a severe lack of life experience.

Age is just a number, these people are teens in their heads not in their bodies, some people grow out of it, some don't.

 

[Candescence]

I didn't even need to read the actual list, just the examples shown in this thread were enough for me. These people need to re-evaluate their lives.

 

[Forkball]

Nobody comes at Call of Duty like that.

NOBODY.

I really wonder what possesses people to post stuff like this, often under their own names. Twitter is supposed to be used for good, not evil!

 

[Alex_Mexico]

How is she considered extreme? I dont understand what your definition of "extreme" is.

I've watched her videos and she's doing nothing but offering a feminist and female perspective on the "tropes" in video games.

All I see is her explaining the trope, and talking about why it's overused/cliche/harmful/unncessasary

It's about as basic as you can get.

Word.

You wanna see extreme? Go watch any Thunderf00t video where he talks about Anita. That's extreme.

Her videos are so harmless it's not even funny. The hate and threats began months before she had released her very first Tropes Vs Women in Videogames video! How can you say she's an extreme when the harassment started before she had a chance to explain her arguments?!

The only reason she has such a high profile now was because those haters trying to silence her. And the orbit of it all apparently escapes them.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I am having a hard time seeing how these Twitter messages are about ethics in video games journalism.

What a sad world we live in.