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[Agremont]

.

No she shouldn't get rape/death threats period. No one should for their opinions. She doesn't deserve this, but she also shouldn't take on a project like this without being an avid gamer who would understand the culture and be able to find real examples of problems in it, some things she say are simply ignorant and foolish and people hate her for that, but her that's their opinion and she should deal with it. Once again the rape and death threats are pretty screwed up though.

I don't get why she'd have to be a gamer to comment on how women get represented in video games.

 

[Oersted]

when did I say it justifies it

why is reading so hard for some people



so now you're likening me calling her disgusting to death and rape threats?

okay

Indeed. You also didn't answer my question.

The thing is I don't think there is a realistic solution to the problem. There are daily death/rape threats going on in twitter and the internet as a whole for a lot of people. What is twitter or any other site going to do about it? They can't ban 100000 users a day, and even if they do, others will follow eventually and the cicle will continue. There's just no way to stop it, all one can do is ignore and pity them.

Or display it and create a climate where genderslurs are less likely to happen. Wouldn't be the worst thing.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I never said the hate speech is justified. Please show me where I did. I'm also not trying to downplay the hate speech,but if she says she didn't know this would happen then she's either lying or just ignorant to the way people on the Internet have been for years. Yea she has an opinion and I have to deal with it. People will disagree with it, she has to deal with it,some of these people are idiots,she also has to deal with that.

I ask again, why post this? Either to get people to see what she deals with and feel bad for her (ATTENTION) or to show how bad video game fans have become or some bullcrap like that. I say bullcrap because this is a fraction of our community, albeit a stupid one, so I feel like that point is moot.

No she shouldn't get rape/death threats period. No one should for their opinions. She doesn't deserve this, but she also shouldn't take on a project like this without being an avid gamer who would understand the culture and be able to find real examples of problems in it, some things she say are simply ignorant and foolish and people hate her for that, but her that's their opinion and she should deal with it. Once again the rape and death threats are pretty screwed up though.

Threats don't have to be part of gaming, and that part of the culture isn't as small as you wish it was

If it bothers you to have it associated you could try to help instead of whining about misrepresentation where there is none or accusing someone of only wanting attention

 

[Kilvin]

This kind of behaviour is inexcusable, absoloutely disgusting. No one should be treated this way.

I'm glad she posted this and I'm glad she didn't censor the names.

 

[TunaMarshmallow]

I never said the hate speech is justified.

You said that she "attracts" these threats of sexual assault, torture, and death. To say that someone "attracts" something, in colloquial English, is to say that they are responsible for bringing it about. This isn't really an open question.

 

[lazypants]

Oh, and "it's the internet, bro" is a fucking appalling response to daily death threats. Cut that out.

People only make these threats and because "it's the internet". I just can't believe that people are serious about these threats or are truly believe what they are saying. They only make these tweets because they think its funny, or are trying to impress their 12 year old friends. It's the only logical motive i could come up with. They would never say these things in "real life" because they don't really mean it. So why not just ignore the tweets and move on? Or are there really that many people who are so twisted and mangled on the inside as to be serious about their threats?

 

[Beelzebufo]

I never said the hate speech is justified. Please show me where I did. I'm also not trying to downplay the hate speech,but if she says she didn't know this would happen then she's either lying or just ignorant to the way people on the Internet have been for years. Yea she has an opinion and I have to deal with it. People will disagree with it, she has to deal with it,some of these people are idiots,she also has to deal with that.

I ask again, why post this? Either to get people to see what she deals with and feel bad for her (ATTENTION) or to show how bad video game fans have become or some bullcrap like that. I say bullcrap because this is a fraction of our community, albeit a stupid one, so I feel like that point is moot.

No she shouldn't get rape/death threats period. No one should for their opinions. She doesn't deserve this, but she also shouldn't take on a project like this without being an avid gamer who would understand the culture and be able to find real examples of problems in it, some things she say are simply ignorant and foolish and people hate her for that, but her that's their opinion and she should deal with it. Once again the rape and death threats are pretty screwed up though.

I would agree that it was probably for attention. I don't see how that is a bad thing however. Any and all attention she gets will hopefully lead towards a world where the internet isn't like this, bro.

The better question is, why would we NOT want her to bring attention to this?

PS For the record she is an avid gamer haha. I hate when people say she's not for some reason.

 

[Amir0x]

I never said the hate speech is justified. Please show me where I did. I'm also not trying to downplay the hate speech,but if she says she didn't know this would happen then she's either lying or just ignorant to the way people on the Internet have been for years. Yea she has an opinion and I have to deal with it. People will disagree with it, she has to deal with it,some of these people are idiots,she also has to deal with that.

I ask again, why post this? Either to get people to see what she deals with and feel bad for her (ATTENTION) or to show how bad video game fans have become or some bullcrap like that. I say bullcrap because this is a fraction of our community, albeit a stupid one, so I feel like that point is moot.

No she shouldn't get rape/death threats period. No one should for their opinions. She doesn't deserve this, but she also shouldn't take on a project like this without being an avid gamer who would understand the culture and be able to find real examples of problems in it, some things she say are simply ignorant and foolish and people hate her for that, but her that's their opinion and she should deal with it. Once again the rape and death threats are pretty screwed up though.

Once again, your question was answered here.

 

[Pantsuit Apologist]

I didn't have the stomach to make it more than a 1/3 of the way through those comments. Truly, truly vile.

 

[mrmickfran]

Next week on Jimmy Fallon's "Celebrities Read Mean Tweets"...

 

[Fallout-NL]

Dear god, I'm not big into her content but would never think to tweet her anything like what I just read. What the hell is wrong with these people and worse yet I wonder how old most of these people are and what's going through their minds when their typing up things like this.

Nothing, probably. They're idiots (of the most vile kind).

Disheartening to see how many of them there are though. Incredible.

 

[GTABlueKid]

Sorry Amir0x, didn't read your post until I posted my last one. You do give a good reason why she would share those tweets.That could very well be her thinking. Don't have to be so condescending though.

 

[Mets9]

People only make these threats and because "it's the internet". I just can't believe that people are serious about these threats or are truly believe what they are saying. They only make these tweets because they think its funny, or are trying to impress their 12 year old friends. It's the only logical motive i could come up with. They would never say these things in "real life" because they don't really mean it. So why not just ignore the tweets and move on? Or are there really that many people who are so twisted and mangled on the inside as to be serious about their threats?

Because you can't really know who is saying that "for the lulz" and who is serious.

 

[Briarios]

Wonder what jack thompson twitter account would have look like back in the day. Bet a lot like this....

Twitter just a terrible place.

Ok, this fake Jack Thompson equivalency shit needs to stop. Jack Thompson directly wanted legislation to prevent people from ever having the opportunity to play games -- to intimidate the industry through laws and expensive lawsuits to get what he wanted. Sarkeesian is using an educational method to try and effect change by raising awareness.

This is like the third time this week I've seem people try to align them in some way as if to say, see men would have gotten the same treatment. BS.

 

[turnbuckle]

That is sadly not true, those people are your co-workers, your university students, your future CEOs. Its easy to paint them as monsters when in reality they are really careful how they indulge in a way that society accepts.

Yup. There's not a special indicator letting us know who is and isn't a shithead on the internet when encountered in real life.

This American Life's latest episode has a story about a guy making a fake account for a Jezebel writer's recently deceased father then saying really hateful things to her. Then she interviews him to find out why. She makes the same point as you - that many(most) internet harassment is done by people who lead otherwise ordinary lives in the real world. Loving husbands, best friends, even our own parents or children. The internet's a pretty vile place.
This American Life episode about trolling and online harassment

 

[kinoki]

To be fair, I'm sure a reasonable amount of them are less evil, and more just actually aren't that smart and don't have empathy as you said. Failure to recognize that you're being played by the actual evil people to suit their own agenda, failure to realize that your words matter, failure to realize that her videos don't insult you, etc.

I mean I agree it's completely terrible, but I think it's worth considering that some of these people might not be literally satan (some), but rather might actually just have very low intelligence/have never matured and are throwing temper tantrums.

I don't believe in satan-evil. That's another level of disconnect with reality. This is just vanilla evil. Just people who want to lash out and hurt people. This kind of behaviour is cruel and evil. I don't know how else to explain it.

 

[hey_monkey]

I am incoherently angry that this happens, again and again, and that so many people (in general) are all, oh, it's not a big deal. It's just twitter. It's just morons. It's just kids. It's easy to brush it off.

Oh, sure, I mean, if it happens sometimes, whatever. Who cares, right? But this is every day. This is just business as usual. I mean, think about that. The weight of it. Trying to find something worthwhile in your mentions and having to wade through this all the time.

 

[More_Badass]

People only make these threats and because "it's the internet". I just can't believe that people are serious about these threats or are truly believe what they are saying. They only make these tweets because they think its funny, or are trying to impress their 12 year old friends. It's the only logical motive i could come up with. They would never say these things in "real life" because they don't really mean it. So why not just ignore the tweets and move on? Or are there really that many people who are so twisted and mangled on the inside as to be serious about their threats?

When you have grown men obsessing over every word she says, posting hours and hours and hours of videos on YouTube calling her a con artist, a liar, etc. 1) you realize that sadly it's likely not 12 year olds posting those tweets and 2) some people are obsessed with her to such a twisted degree that there probably a lot of truth to those threats and tweets

 

[Amir0x]

Sorry Amir0x, didn't read your post until I posted my last one. You do give a good reason why she would share those tweets.That could very well be her thinking. Don't have to be so condescending though.

I readily admit that conversations like this are frustrating to me because I cannot comprehend the mindset that is required to not immediately come in here and simply condemn this problem and try to find solutions.

All these attempts to qualify why she is receiving these threats or why she is posting them are genuinely deeply offensive, whether the poster writing them realizes it or not.

 

[Palette Swap]

The "these must be teens" comments seem very optimistic to me when even ITT, we have great examples of people behaving like sociopaths.

Poor Anita, she must be crying all the time because of all of them threats!

I can deal with those comments for 100k+.

These are great examples, as people apparently feel uninhibited enough to express this kind of snark when faced with a wall of hate.

I absolutely believe otherwise seemingly well adjusted and socially accepted adults could feel completely free to reveal such penchants once hidden behind the double cover of the Internet and of a group. This can create a distance that dehumanizes whoever is on the other side.

 

[EvilEntity]

To clarify for everyone else who didn't see that thread: she said that the $158,922 raised from Feminist Frequency back in 2012 was broken down in the following way:

She has at least one other person helping her (Jonathan McIntosh) so she's not getting the full $70,000. Also, even if she was, that money was spread over two years ($35,000/year). If that kind of money offends you, you're gonna be really unhappy when you find out that Wall Street exists.

2012 sure, thats like, forever ago. How about 2014?



Source: http://www.feministfrequency.com/2015/01/feminist-frequencys-2014-annual-report/

She does has some good points, but often they are poorly argued.

Everyone thats even remotely famous gets shat on the internet. Does she get more than her fair share? Probably. She certainly plays that to her advantage expertly.

What should change is the total amount of assholes on the internet, not just the person they are aimed at.

 

[ShadowKingpin]

I in no way care for Anita, but this should never happen to anyone. This is truly horrible and disgusting and I am very embarrassed as a gamer.

 

[Briarios]

I can deal with those comments for 100k+.

You're having a hard time dealing with a couple people on here who are being relatively nice calling out your BS. You could never handle what she's been through and continues to experience.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

2012 sure, thats like, forever ago. How about 2014?



Source: http://www.feministfrequency.com/2015/01/feminist-frequencys-2014-annual-report/

She does has some good points, but often they are poorly argued.

Everyone thats even remotely famous gets shat on the internet. Does she get more than her fair share? Probably. She certainly plays that to her advantage expertly.

What should change is the total amount of assholes on the internet, not just the person they are aimed at.

Funny you should say that

Poor Anita, she must be crying all the time because of all of them threats!

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Indeed. You also didn't answer my question.



Or display it and create a climate where genderslurs are less likely to happen. Wouldn't be the worst thing.

His point is that you're never going to reach that climate on something like Twitter. It's too easy to sign up for, has a huge lack of accountability, and if the people saying these things were shameful about saying them they probably wouldn't be saying them in the first place. They already know saying these things are bad, they say them because they don't care that they're bad. They're saying them with the intent to be hurtful. Changing the climate isn't going to stop assholes from being assholes. If these people cared about the court of public opinion they wouldn't be saying these things on a website that's open for anyone to see.

You're not going to shame these people into stopping by creating a new climate because they aren't shamed by their behavior in the first place.

 

[diamount]

These are great examples, as people apparently feel uninhibited enough to express this kind of snark when faced with a wall of hate.

Not once have I said the tweets were justified or agreed with them, so I would kindly ask you not to judge my mental state over a digital medium. I just wanted to point out she wasn't doing this for charity and she received quite a bit of money for something that didn't require the amount gained, and judging by the production values thus far I would say that is a correct assumption.

 

[flkraven]

Why does money impact whether or not this is acceptable or whether it deserves our empathy? If Bill Gates is bombarded with rape and death threats, is it ok bc money?

 

[Karsticles]

It's too bad there's no way to send all of these tweets to the mothers of these people.

Of course, in a way, we should be grateful for the anonymity, because it helps show what a problem this still is. Most of these people probably walk around every day having these thoughts about a multitude of women, but never express them due to fear of repercussion.

I am not a fan of Anita's work, but I respect her perseverance.

This one reminds me of a Maximillian video where he says "Before the word troll came about, there was another word that described people who troll: asshole. Stop being an asshole".

 

[Diprosalic]

Money solves a lot of problems, yes. Having none causes problems.

Poor Anita, she must be crying all the time because of all of them threats!

that sweet $160k she made 3 years a go will keep her warm forever.

 

[More_Badass]

2012 sure, thats like, forever ago. How about 2014?



Source: http://www.feministfrequency.com/2015/01/feminist-frequencys-2014-annual-report/

She does has some good points, but often they are poorly argued.

Everyone thats even remotely famous gets shat on the internet. Does she get more than her fair share? Probably. She certainly plays that to her advantage expertly.

What should change is the total amount of assholes on the internet, not just the person they are aimed at.

It's almost as if she's a "professional victim", right? I'm sure I've heard that line of thought before somewhere.

Sigh...

 

[Beelzebufo]

You're having a hard time dealing with a couple people on here who are being relatively nice calling out your BS. You could never handle what she's been through and continues to experience.

Haha that's actually a good point!

We have a lot of people in here saying they wouldn't mind being Anita, and then getting offended when we disagree with them. And that's the best case scenario for her, just getting criticisms instead of death threats!

I mean jeez, we had "it's the internet bro" guy saying how this wouldn't bother him if it happened to him, and then a few posts later he says his feelings were hurt because someone made an admittedly good point in a condescending way.

 

[Aaronrules380]

2012 sure, thats like, forever ago. How about 2014?



Source: http://www.feministfrequency.com/2015/01/feminist-frequencys-2014-annual-report/

She does has some good points, but often they are poorly argued.

Everyone thats even remotely famous gets shat on the internet. Does she get more than her fair share? Probably. She certainly plays that to her advantage expertly.

What should change is the total amount of assholes on the internet, not just the person they are aimed at.

I mean, we have no way of knowing whether the distribution of money is the same for later donations, given that the pie chart is only about the kickstarter fund. And yeah tons of people get shat on on the internet, but I severely doubt most famous youtubers get this amount of abuse. And I haven't heard of many organized campaigns similar to gamergate that target other far more famous people, let alone other people on the same level as her.

 

[Flappy]

Everyone thats even remotely famous gets shat on the internet.

You don't even need to be famous.

I used to get death threats just for being a Moderator on a community forum. And lots of insults when I had a Youtube channel many years ago. Keyboard warriors just come with the package. I ignored them.

 

[Oersted]

His point is that you're never going to reach that climate on something like Twitter. It's too easy to sign up for, has a huge lack of accountability, and if the people saying these things were shameful about saying them they probably wouldn't be saying them in the first place. They already know say these things are bad, they say them because they don't care that they're bad. They're saying them with the intent to be hurtful. Changing the climate isn't going to stop assholes from being assholes. If these people cared about the court of public opinion they wouldn't be saying these things on a website that's open for anyone to see.

You're not going to shame these people into stopping by creating a new climate because they aren't shamed by their behavior in the first place.

You miss the point entirely. We give them now shit for acting like shit. That alone creates a better climate already.

You don't even need to be famous.

I used to get death threats just for being a Moderator on a community forum. And lots of insults when I had a Youtube channel many years ago. Keyboard warriors just come with the package. I ignored them.

Then what is your problem? You dudes can shrug off harassment so easily, why not the display of harassment?

 

[TheSlySoul]

We have a lot of people in here saying they wouldn't mind being Anita, and then getting offended when we disagree with them. And that's the best case scenario for her, just getting criticisms instead of death threats!

I know it would bug me honestly.
Also at least she is using the money for a good cause when there are people waiting to take your money and run. So priorities in the wrong area.

 

[diamount]

Why does money impact whether or not this is acceptable or whether it deserves our empathy? If Bill Gates is bombarded with rape and death threats, is it ok bc money?

I would say that is a crappy analogy.

 

[JDSN]

hold the fuck up, she's showing the comments during the week it was released that most of her fundraising went into salaries

yes, some of the comments are disgusting, but she's a disgusting person so I'm not surprised at what she attracts

gaming industry has its problems, but please don't think this is typical

Yeah she was kinda asking for it!!

 

[hey_monkey]

I readily admit that conversations like this are frustrating to me because I cannot comprehend the mindset that is required to not immediately come in here and simply condemn this problem and try to find solutions.

All these attempts to qualify why she is receiving these threats or why she is posting them are genuinely deeply offensive, whether the poster writing them realizes it or not.

Yes. Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes.

That sighworthy Chait piece in NYMag about the horrors of PC culture had a line about microaggressions that really stuck out. Described one example as "relatively innocuous," as I recall. As, say, ONE of these would be. But it's not a one-time thing. It's a tidal wave. All because Sarkeesian's a face on it. Not because of the money, but because of videos. There's a lot stronger, deeper, critique happening in academia, but it's buried in journals, obv. So no one's bothering them. But here's a woman in videos, easily accessible, and all around her is a constant, unyielding shitstorm. It's appalling. There's no excusing it. There's no mitigating it. It's appalling.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

You miss the point entirely. We give them now shit for acting like shit. That alone creates a better climate already.

I don't really see how. They're not going to stop within this better climate, and they don't care that people are giving them shit. It sounds like giving them shit now just leads to more arguments and possibly even more attention for them. Maybe you mean people outside of Gamergate will stop using slurs as much?

 

[qizah]

That part of the large gaming community can fuck right off.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I know it would bug me honestly.
Also at least she is using the money for a good cause when there are people waiting to take your money and run. So priorities in the wrong area.

I think it's also interesting to realize that she's not even using an online name or anything. I mean sure, it's feminist frequency, but she's openly Anita Sarkeesian. I think there's even a big difference between everyone online saying "Beelzebufo is an asshole" and people actually sending me individualized threats.

 

[Wensih]

It's always the Junior members who are just 'innocently' asking the hard questions such as:

What if Anita likes these horrendous threats because she gets paid?
What if Anita enjoys the attention of people threatening to kill her?
What if Anita is trying to frame these poor folks on twitter calling her a cunt?

You should have been an investigative reporter, GTABlueKid. I mean clearly you've evaluated the situation in full and you're stuck in a corner trying to figure out what other possible motivations there can be but she's an attention whore or she's trying to "frame people who disagree with her with these select people."

I find it instructive that you think pointing out the indisputable mountain of shit she receives on a daily basis somehow tars people who innocently disagree with her with the same brush. It doesn't. I also find it pretty revealing that you can think of no possible other reason that someone might choose to highlight the abhorrent behavior pictured in the OP link, and immediately must turn to some absurd conspiracy theory to try to prop up your insane position.

"Why post this?"

Sometimes it is important to recognize the scale of a problem before people take it seriously. For example, if I have a class of students and one student typically cheats per semester... I'm likely not going to think the problem is that big of a deal. Punish the cheater, that's the end of it. If every semester I have twenty kids that are cheating, the scale of the problem necessarily means something else is deeply wrong, and I have to try to find solutions for it. Is someone selling a cheating program for my specific class? Do I need to increase the complexity and type of problems I offer my students in order to make cheating more difficult?

Many people - including in this topic - continually try to downplay what Anita receives. They say she's exaggerating, she's doing it to herself, she likes it. But the reality is nobody likes shit like this, it's a pathetic position on its face. And as clear as the sun is hot, this problem continues to be one that needs demonstrating and highlighting.

This is an especially poor argument:



Because it ignores the two obvious points here.

1. If every "well known person on twitter" can collect crap like this, then the problem that exists is of massive scale.
2. The fact that a problem of massive scale exists means that it is important that someone like Anita continue to point it out and spur discussion over it.

It's seriously deeply ridiculous to continue to hear this as if it's a fact of life that everyone should just accept at face value. No, it's not. I don't mean to suggest that the solutions are simple - they're obviously complicated - but the problem itself is self-evidently valuable to discuss. Which you yourself inadvertently underlined.

Thank you for this Amir0x; it was very eloquently put.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I don't really see how. They're not going to stop within this better climate, and they don't care that people are giving them shit. Maybe you mean people outside of Gamergate will stop using slurs as much?

Well this apathy that so many people display certainly doesn't help.

 

[flkraven]

I would say that is a crappy analogy.

Explanation? The fact that I need to even attempt one is shocking, considering this is a thread about a woman getting a week of significant abuse on social media.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Well this apathy that so many people display certainly doesn't help.

I'm not being apathetic if that's what you're implying. I'm merely suggesting that the methods people are using right now to try and shame these people out of their behavior aren't going to work.

 

[GTABlueKid]

Haha that's actually a good point!

We have a lot of people in here saying they wouldn't mind being Anita, and then getting offended when we disagree with them. And that's the best case scenario for her, just getting criticisms instead of death threats!

I mean jeez, we had "it's the internet bro" guy saying how this wouldn't bother him if it happened to him, and then a few posts later he says his feelings were hurt because someone made an admittedly good point in a condescending way.

At what point did I say my feelings were hurt? I said he made a good point and he didn't have to be so condescending,it didn't bother me much. If Anita did that maybe people wouldn't mess with her as much. My name is at the top of this post btw

 

[diamount]

Explanation? The fact that I need to even attempt one is shocking, considering this is a thread about a woman getting a week of significant abuse on social media.

I don't remember Gates receiving his billions from donations, that is his non-tax dodge money.

 

[turnbuckle]

Sorry Amir0x, didn't read your post until I posted my last one. You do give a good reason why she would share those tweets.That could very well be her thinking. Don't have to be so condescending though.

After making several misguided posts that essentially amount to "The threats are unfortunate, but she brought it upon herself. Anita should know her place." it's a little rich seeing you get offended by anything Ami had to say. Now imagine if it wasn't just someone taking a few of your posts to task and responding the way he and others have, but instead threatening you.

I readily admit that conversations like this are frustrating to me because I cannot comprehend the mindset that is required to not immediately come in here and simply condemn this problem and try to find solutions.

All these attempts to qualify why she is receiving these threats or why she is posting them are genuinely deeply offensive, whether the poster writing them realizes it or not.

Totally.

And just think - this is Neogaf. We're somewhat insulated from the worst of what the gaming community at large offers by virtue of a relatively progressive and generally strict but fair set of moderators (and ex mods . It's no wonder that much of the ignorant posts come from junior members. That's not a slight against juniors, but rather an acknowledgement that some of them come from communities that were more accepting of the kind of crap Anita and so many GG victims put up with. Hopefully some of those juniors stick around and reflect on their beliefs and end up changing for the better.

 

[thewhitehawk]

Poor Anita, she must be crying all the time because of all of them threats!

I have to say, your username is terribly appropriate.

 

[FF Seraphim]

So when will Twitter start cracking down on this crap?

When it stops making them money. Thats the truth of the matter.

As for this, well holy shit. I do not really care enough of what Anita says to actually read most of it but she has the god damn right to say it. People on the internet just hide behind fake names so they can say what they want, take that anonymous trait out and I believe there would be less vile speech spewed out in the open.