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[The Albatross]

OP, who are you to judge if somebody doesn't want to date somebody or not? It's my life, not your's. There's a big difference between sharing a public space (like a bathroom) and having a romantic/sexual relationship with someone, and it's not a contradiction to say "I don't care if we use the same bathroom, but I would prefer not to have sex with you."

 

[Barzul]

I wouldn't date someone who I knew for certain, before dating, that they couldn't have a child. If something were to happen after we are together then so be it, but I wouldn't settle for less than I am looking for.



No I disagree. You don't have to be so open when it comes to how you feel about other people. People fall out of love for small reasons and they are free to do so. If someone can't get over the fact that the person they fell in love with was trans then they can't get over it, simple as that. "It's all in the past now" that they have completing their trans doesn't sit well either. It's not disgusting, it just means they're not open for their own feelings.

It would be pretty horrible if it got to the point where people had to give a really good reason and have it approved by others to stop dating someone.

Also in that episode, she said "I used to be a man" and he misunderstood. She was seeing if he was okay with it to begin with and if he HAD known he wouldn't have developed those complicated feelings in the first place.

Well said.

 

[Griss]

Pre-op or post-op, why the fuck would it matter? If you're a straight male and are attracted to that person as a female then what's between their legs isn't really an issue is it? I mean, you can still get each other off. I have rarely looked at a vagina and thought to myself "ahh yes, this vag being here, specifically, makes my relationship so much richer", I just see it as a means to an end, that end being giving my partner pleasure. I think a lot of people get hung up on genetalia, which i feel is a bit wrong, but I dunno, I'm not really up on this issue.

Basically I think all the other stuff not regarding relationships just boils down to respecting other people, doesn't it?

We're gonna have to get lewd here, but the vulva itself is a huge, huge part of my attraction to the female form, and maybe even the central basis for it. Always has been. Have to imagine it's that way for most hetero guys, too, especially from the generation that grew up with porn as their first sexual experience. I really couldn't disagree with you more, here. Genetalia are just a basic part of sexual attraction.

I don't see 'giving my partner pleasure' as the goal, I see getting myself off as the goal, and hopefully bringing someone else along for the ride and trying my best to do that. That sounds selfish but I'd wager it's how 99% of people actually feel. And to get myself off, to feel sexually aroused, the vulva / vagina needs to be involved.

Well it would have to be some pretty damn good post op. The moment I realized the porn I was skimming had transgender actresses I would shift from getting boner to becoming flaccid and move on.

I actually care about biology a lot and if I was told about someone being post op I wouldn't bother watching them again because my attraction has been reduced.

Agreed. Shit, I remember jacking it to the biology section of the classic 'What's happening to my body book for girls' back in the day when I was about 11. Female biology is fucking hot. I thought this was a standard thing.

 

[skynidas]

I've dated two transgirls, they are awesome.

Bathrooms should be unisex anyways.

no, why the fuck would that be a good idea?

like 0.1% of people that go into public bathrooms would agree with you.

a woman doesn't want to see a bunch of guys with their dicks out taking a piss. and men don't want to wait like 25 minutes just to take a quick piss. they are separated for a motherfucking reason

 

[PhantomHound]

Not, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying if you refuse to date someone because of their ethnicity or race and your "preference", you should re-think why you have those.

My girlfriend is asian, and I find asian girls cute and or sexy.

Please explain my racism.

 

[dokish]

It's "problematic" because black and white people, like all ethnic groups, are extremely diverse socially defined ethnic groups with no specific physical trait shared among all members outside of ancestry/region of origin. It's not the same as saying you prefer blondes to brunettes or dating someone shorter/taller than you.

And while you aren't necessarily "racist" for not being attracted to people within a certain ethnic group, it is questionable as to why you would be less attracted to all members of such a large ethnic group regardless of physical differences.

What? So we should find all kinds of people attractive?

I'm mixed, I have black friends and white friends from all over the world. Yet I feel the most horny when I'm around asian women. Am I racist? Why can't I prefer asian features and not white ones?

 

[Fury451]

What personal preference could one possibly have that absolutely excludes an entire race?

Can you really help what you are or are not attracted to? Some people stay within certain boundaries of what they are comfortable with. Some women like buff guys, some women like heavier set guy's. Some men like certain features on women, others have no specific preference.

That doesn't mean that they're racist in mentality, that's a whole different matter altogether

 

[Jokergrin]

Everyone should watch this.

I think a transgender should use the woman's bathroom, after all, that's what she looks like. I'm pretty sure she's not gonna try to pick other people's vagina under the door. The only reason I see for us having separate bathrooms is because of abuses that might occur. I don't think a transgender will do that. Anyway, if she wants to do it, a bathroom wouldn't stop.

It's time to stop segregating. If someone makes a full transformation, I wish she could use the women's bathroom.

Regarding dating, I confess that I wouldn't tell everyone that I was dating a transgender, for the same reasons someone that is gay would come out of the closet right away, but I would definitely date a hot asian transgender.

I just can't bring myself to think of any reasons why he should keep the hate on homossexuals. And I can't sympathize with anyone who hates them.

What do you mean "a full transformation"?

(and it's a transgender woman, not "a transgender")

 

[Simply Sarah]

In my entirely anecdotal experience it has tended to not be, but it certainly has been at times. It's also complicated by the fact that some people I've gotten into relationships with knew I was trans to start with due to meeting in queer spaces.

 

[kmax]

What personal preference could one possibly have that absolutely excludes an entire race?

Beats me. I'm just saying that there are people that do, and that it's okay. The reasons why are something they'll have to answer for. I personally don't care for something so trivial.

However, I'm not going to judge people based on who they're attracted to. We like what we like, I suppose.

 

[Someglan]

No.

Just because I wouldn't date Bob doesn't make me homophobic at all. We need to distinguish personal preference here.

Why? Should gay men rethink the fact that they're not attracted to women?

Ummm, no? Why do you keep equating this with sexual orientation?

 

[M0nochromatic]

Yes I agree on that if anyone finds something they want to fuck, they should want to fuck them. If they don't then I guess the issue isn't bigotry, but self-loathing?

If they don't want to fuck someone, then they don't. Do the reasons really matter? Do they have to answer to those they don't have a thing for, and if they can't come up with why they are horrible people?

This is only a problem for anyone of X gets rejected by Y, and Y says "it is because you are asian" instead of "I don't find you attractive."

If X says "is it because I am asian?" then X is just annoying.

How can we tell what's social conditioning and whats inherent to sexuality regarding attractiveness? People are born with different traits such as sexuality and gender, but does society play a role in shaping what we find attractive? Are your genes deciding whether you like factors such as weight, height, skin tone, and biological identity, or is it social conditions that effect your perceptions?

If it's inherently genetic and in reality its something no one can control then I agree with you it doesn't matter. If it's born from societal conditions, then in reality it may be slightly problematic, and it would need to be analysed further.

 

[esms]

We're gonna have to get lewd here, but the vulva itself is a huge, huge part of my attraction to the female form, and maybe even the central basis for it. Always has been. Have to imagine it's that way for most hetero guys, too, especially from the generation that grew up with porn as their first sexual experience. I really couldn't disagree with you more, here. Genetalia are just a basic part of sexual attraction.

I don't see 'giving my partner pleasure' as the goal, I see getting myself off as the goal, and hopefully bringing someone else along for the ride and trying my best to do that. That sounds selfish but I'd wager it's how 99% of people actually feel. And to get myself off, to feel sexually aroused, the vulva / vagina needs to be involved.

I'm either the 1% or you have grossly underestimated the amount of people who prioritize the pleasure of their girlfriend over their own. I intentionally drag out sex until she's about to pass out and then I finish. I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Some things aren't preconceptions. One of the things I have always found most attractive is pale skin. It's a physical feature that turns me on. I'm not a fan of sun tans or fake tan or anything like that - I love the look of fair, pale skin. Now, certain races just aren't going to have that. Doesn't mean I can't be attracted to people from those races (and I certainly have been in the past) but It does give one group a big advantage.

I didn't choose to feel that way any more than I chose to find large breasts unattractive, which is not exactly a standard hetero preference but one I feel strongly for some reason I can in no way explain. It's just not a choice at all.

Not saying that's a problem per se (and at some point I did confuse preference with identity, fwiw). Just saying that if it then limits anyone you date to simply that bracket, it potentially can be a problem. I just find it incredibly odd that someone would limit their field rather than expand it.

Have your preferences, get those who fit them when you can, but don't shut yourself out from others who don't meet all the check-marks but you otherwise enjoy the company of. That isn't too much to ask for.

Beats me. I'm just saying that there are people that do, and that it's okay. The reasons why are something they'll have to answer for. I personally don't care for something so trivial.

However, I'm not going to judge people based on who they're attracted to. We like what we like, I suppose.

You should read some of my other posts on why it's absolutely not okay.

Equating physical features to entire ethnicities, and then ignoring people of an ethnicity who may individually have those physical traits anyway? Yeah, that's a big problem.

 

[Simply Sarah]

OK, seriously, can people not see the issue with saying "I won't date X" as a definitive and absolute statement? It is making huge assumptions and paints the entire group X with a broad brush and are totally ignoring individuals. This is the difference between an employer saying "I won't hire women" and "I'd hire any woman that could meet the requirements, but I haven't seen any". If you want to say "I'm generally not attracted to X and find it highly unlikely I'd ever date X" or "I don't think I could date X" then it's a different story because you're leaving yourself open to exceptions.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Ummm, no? Why do you keep equating this with sexual orientation?

Because they're both based on physical preferences.

 

[Bloodrage]

As someone who is trans it's hurtful to read shit like this; not just for me, but for others here as well.

That's the thing, I wasn't trying to hurt you. How do we discuss a topic like this when transgender people are likely to take offense easily, attacking anyone who may have said something they didn't like? If it helps, you could just stay away from such threads.

She is a girl.

Not really, but he is trying to be, through the use of the same offensive science that confirms he is a male.

 

[PhantomHound]

I'm either the 1% or you have grossly underestimated the amount of people who prioritize the pleasure of their girlfriend over their own. I intentionally drag out sex until she's about to pass out and then I finish. I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[Deified Data]

I would date a transgender. I'd date anyone I consider beautiful.

As for those who wouldn't, there are people in the world with more fickle standards than that who get off judgement free. I'm not about to judge someone for who they find attractive.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

no, why the fuck would that be a good idea?

like 0.1% of people that go into public bathrooms would agree with you.

a woman doesn't want to see a bunch of guys with their dicks out taking a piss. and men don't want to wait like 25 minutes just to take a quick piss. they are separated for a motherfucking reason

I've gone to places(very few) that have unisex bathrooms and there's no problem at all.

It's really not that big of a deal.

 

[esms]

In my entirely anecdotal experience it has tended to not be, but it certainly has been at times. It's also complicated by the fact that some people I've gotten into relationships with knew I was trans to start with due to meeting in queer spaces.

Awesome. I'm happy to see that it's working out well for you.

That's the extent to which I'll pry today. Thanks for answering.

 

[Someglan]

My girlfriend is asian, and I find asian girls cute and or sexy.

Please explain my racism.

Cool? I mean, that's great you have a girlfriend! Why are you posting this?

 

[Opiate]

I didn't invent biology.

Biologists disagree with you, though -- if you want to invoke authority in this manner. Biologists generally agree that transgender individuals exist:

http://www.newscientist.com/article...rences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.VNzMBk05CUk

Here is the American Psychological Association on the topic:

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

Can I ask what you are basing your position on?

 

[dokish]

What do you mean "a full transformation"?

(and it's a transgender woman, not "a transgender")

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the correct vocab.

By full transformation I mean someone under HRT and who dresses like a woman.

 

[Kinsei]

That's the thing, I wasn't trying to hurt you. How do we discuss a topic like this when transgender people are likely to take offense easily, attacking anyone who may have said something they didn't like? If it helps, you could just stay away from such threads.


Not really, but he is trying to be, through the use of the same offensive science that confirms he is a male.

Twelling people that they're wrong about who they are makes them upset? Who would have fucking guessed. You really need to pick up a book sometime and educate yourself.

No, she's a woman.

 

[Someglan]

Because they're both based on physical preferences.

Neither of them are solely based on physical preference.

 

[kodecraft]

Well that isn't a problem for me because I would date a transgendered woman.

Me too.

 

[scotcheggz]

We're gonna have to get lewd here, but the vulva itself is a huge, huge part of my attraction to the female form, and maybe even the central basis for it. Always has been. Have to imagine it's that way for most hetero guys, too, especially from the generation that grew up with porn as their first sexual experience. I really couldn't disagree with you more, here. Genetalia are just a basic part of sexual attraction.

I don't see 'giving my partner pleasure' as the goal, I see getting myself off as the goal, and hopefully bringing someone else along for the ride and trying my best to do that. That sounds selfish but I'd wager it's how 99% of people actually feel. And to get myself off, to feel sexually aroused, the vulva / vagina needs to be involved.

That's fair enough, I appreciate the candid response too. Maybe we're going off topic here, but yeah, I haven't ever thought like that, pretty fascinating. My ex, ex did have a fantastic vaj but I was just like, oh wow, that's a nice looking vaj and never really thought about it much after that. I guess it's like being an arse guy or a legs guy or something, I dunno, people are often too squemish to talk about this kinda stuff. To be fair, I do think my sexuality has always been quite fluid, though I've never dated or slept with a guy, I don't think I'd be shocked if it happened.

 

[Union Carbine]

OK, seriously, can people not see the issue with saying "I won't date X" as a definitive and absolute statement? It is making huge assumptions and paints the entire group X with a broad brush and are totally ignoring individuals. This is the difference between an employer saying "I won't hire women" and "I'd hire any woman that could meet the requirements, but I haven't seen any". If you want to say "I'm generally not attracted to X and find it highly unlikely I'd ever date X" or "I don't think I could date X" then it's a different story because you're leaving yourself open to exceptions.

I think that's a bit silly. Aren't we all taking it for a given that no one is speaking in absolute terms making statements that they could never ever betray? I mean, if I say, "I won't date a smoker", I mean it to the extent that I can control. If I meet some wonderful person who I fall head over heels for and fall in love with and she happens to smoke, I'm not going to throw it away because, "honey, I love you but I swore I'd never date smokers so goodbye forever!"

Everything is subject to the exceptions that life throws at us. I don't think we have to qualify everything we say to understand that.

 

[Izuna]

^^^^^

Honestly, swear down, with enough effort put into it you can even enjoy sex that's not your standard sexual orientation as a developed fetish -- but this is not the same as actually being that sexual orientation.

Straight men being attracted to futanari is a fetish, which doesn't retroactively mean they like penis the whole time. Nor does that mean everyone who does like penis developed it as a fetish.

If my SO could take a pill and Bible Black grow a penis for a day I personally wouldn't mind jerking her off, as I don't find my own piece disgusting either. There are so many reason so to sexually attracted to someone, but there are also so many people who are reserved or even a-sexual enough to find nothing sexually attractive, but still have a orientation for love.

I don't like that OP is trying to find a right answer for everyone, nor the people that diagree with people not being open like they are and compare it to bigotry or that "they haven't tried". It doesn't allow people to have their own preferences, and people are complicated and unique -- as are their preferences.

There is a metagame to sexual attraction for a bunch of people. Shallow only refers to how little their criteria can be or how specific it is.

 

[Fury451]

Cool? I mean, that's great you have a girlfriend! Why are you posting this?

Because you're making sweeping generalizations by stating that if some people have certain preferences, then they are by default somehow being racist and need to reassess their preferences to agree with your standards. That's simply not accurate.

 

[Amalthea]

If somebody won't fully accept you the way you are, they aren't worth your time.

Sexuality isn't only penis and vagina btw.
Here's one of the many brain scans that reveal the differences between men and (trans-) women, it's very easy to understand.
BSTc is the Stria Terminalis wich is a part of the brain for anxiety and stress.

 

[Unbounded]

My girlfriend is asian, and I find asian girls cute and or sexy.

Please explain my racism.

Do you like your girlfriend because she's asian, or do you like her because she has traits you find attractive, and these traits just tend to be more common in asian women?

Can you really help what you are or are not attracted to? Some people stay within certain boundaries of what they are comfortable with. Some women like buff guys, some women like heavier set guy's. Some men like certain features on women, others have no specific preference.

That doesn't mean that they're racist in mentality, that's a whole different matter altogether

The problem is that no race has a unifying physical characteristic. To say you prefer a race goes beyond being physically or even mentally attracted to someone.

 

[Someglan]

I feel bad. I've derailed this forum topic a bit. I'm sorry but I am done posting on this race issue.

 

[Griss]

Not saying that's a problem per se (and at some point I did confuse preference with identity, fwiw). Just saying that if it then limits anyone you date to simply that bracket, it potentially can be a problem. I just find it incredibly odd that someone would limit their field rather than expand it.

Have your preferences, get those who fit them when you can, but don't shut yourself out from others who don't meet all the check-marks but you otherwise enjoy the company of. That isn't too much to ask for.

That's a perfectly fair point and I agree with you, but ultimately it's not for you or me to decide what limitations people put on their dating pool.

I know a guy who only dates blondes. That, to me, is dumb as fuck, since who cares about hair colour

Spoiler

and brunettes are hot as fuck anyway. (That pale skin contrasted with black hair... hnnnggg)

But this means that there aren't gonna be any black or Asian women on his list, you know? It's dumb to me, but I'm not going to cast aspersions on his character because of this arbitrary preference he has - when it comes to dating, you can be as dumb as you want to be because only you know what gets you hard. And if that's blonde hair, so be it.

 

[Switch Back 9]

I'm either the 1% or you have grossly underestimated the amount of people who prioritize the pleasure of their girlfriend over their own. I intentionally drag out sex until she's about to pass out and then I finish. I'm sure I'm not alone.

I do tthis as well, but for purely selfish and egotistical reasons. If she cums buckets and can barely talk I pat myself on the back and go "good job dude, you're the man." getting her off gets me off.

Spoiler

of course, it's always nice to make sure both people enjoy it otherwise what's the point

 

[Kreed]

What? So we should find all kinds of people attractive?

I'm mixed, I have black friends and white friends from all over the world. Yet I feel the most horny when I'm around asian women. Am I racist? Why can't I prefer asian features and not white ones?

Read my post again because I never said this. It's ok to find different people attractive based on physical differences. I'm saying that black people as an ethnic group is VERY DIVERSE without a "defined set" of physical attributes or features. If you have a preference to certain physical attributes like hair color, or eye color, etc... that's perfectly fine/understandable, but those physical attributes are not always defined to any one ethnic group.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

I require a birth certificate before I buy a woman a drink.

Spoiler

This is a joke

 

[wildfire]

Why? What "biology" is it that is a problem here?

I started this whole thread in order to explore this contradiction I was living by where I stop regarding a transgender person as their gender when it comes to sex whether it is about myself or someone else.

My fantasies and thus my sexual desire is rooted in how I handle my relationships. So the fantasy would be ruined for the same fundamental reasons I would date a transgender person.

 

[bms2993]

This thread will end in tears, gaffer-on-gaffer violence, and bans like the last time we tried to discuss this

Unfortunately it always happens..

 

[InfiniteNine]

That's the thing, I wasn't trying to hurt you. How do we discuss a topic like this when transgender people are likely to take offense easily, attacking anyone who may have said something they didn't like? If it helps, you could just stay away from such threads.


Not really, but he is trying to be, through the use of the same offensive science that confirms he is a male.

You can at least pretend to be a decent person asshole.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Twelling people that they're wrong about who they are makes them upset? Who would have fucking guessed. You really need to pick up a book sometime and educate yourself.

No, she's a woman.

It's just his opinion. Just stating your offended and your a bad person isn't going to change his mind. Bring effective debates to the table. Perhaps you'll change his mind, perhaps not.

But hell, it's just someones opinion. I don't agree with it but he has a right to say it, just like the next person.

 

[Kinsei]

It's just his opinion. Just stating your offended and your a bad person isn't going to change his mind. Bring effective debates to the table. Perhaps you'll change his mind, perhaps not.

But hell, it's just someones opinion. I don't agree with it but he has a right to say it, just like the next person.

It's not his opinion. To call a trans woman a man is factually wrong.

 

[WaffleTaco]

I think that if you aren't going to date a trans woman because she is pre-op, that's fine. However if you don't want to date a trans woman that's post-op, who you didn't know was a trans woman, until she told you, than that's messed up. The only rational response to that would be be because you want biological children and do not want to use a surrogate.

 

[esms]

I do tthis as well, but for purely selfish and egotistical reasons. If she cums buckets and can barely talk I pat myself on the back and go "good job dude, you're the man." getting her off gets me off.

Spoiler

of course, it's always nice to make sure both people enjoy it otherwise what's the point

I have to admit that it pumps up my ego when she loses count of how many times she came during a sex sesh. Getting her off gets me off is definitely a statement I can agree with.

 

[Timedog]

In an alternate history where homosexuality was never looked down upon this thread would not exist. No one would give a shit if someone they are attracted to used to be a man unless for pro-creation. Its pretty arbitrary.

 

[Fink]

I actually care about biology a lot and if I was told about someone being post op I wouldn't bother watching them again because my attraction has been reduced.

Geez dude, if they pass in all regards and then a simple "she has an XY chromosome" kills it for you? That's like if I said I found out that my SO was born in another country and I dump them because they aren't native to my country. It's in the past and is irrelevant to who they are now.

I'm pretty sure if I (male) insist on using the women's bathroom i can be arrested. At the very least the establishment i'm visiting is likely to throw me out.

Not too sure on the legal details though.

Yes, that's true. I guess that's the issue of deciding who passes and who does not. As long as you weren't acting weird I wouldn't care if a man needed to use our bathroom.

Apparently people have gotten upset when fathers have had to use womens restrooms to change their baby's diapers. Yes I think men's rooms should also have them, but I don't see the big deal of using women's when there's no other option.

 

[PhantomHound]

Do you like your girlfriend because she's asian, or do you like her because she has traits you find attractive, and these traits just tend to be more common in asian women?

I mean... what's the difference? One sounds more sensitive than the other, but i'm not really going to find Asian traits and features in say a black or white woman.

 

[Opiate]

You can at least pretend to be a decent person asshole.

Hold on, he may be coming from an honest place. He apparently believes that biologists don't think transgenderism exists.

That would be a fairly compelling argument, if so. It isn't an "asshole" thing to say that electromagnetic sensitivity does not exist, and that people who believe they have it are wrong and are fooling themselves. It's not a nice thing to say, but the truth isn't always nice. You aren't a jerk just because you're telling people things they don't want to hear; sometimes, people don't want to hear the truth.

Of course, all of this rests on the argument that biology refutes transgenderism, and it turns out he's wrong on that, to the best of my knowledge. But he may just not know that, as opposed to being deliberately misleading.

 

[dokish]

I started this whole thread in order to explore this contradiction I was living by where I stop regarding a transgender person as their gender when it comes to sex whether it is about myself or someone else.

My fantasies and thus my sexual desire is rooted in how I handle my relationships. So the fantasy would be ruined for the same fundamental reasons I would date a transgender person.

If we want to define humans by biology, you would have a huge crash with culture. By biological ways, a woman is ready to conceive when she get her first period. Varies by individual, but usually around 11 or 12 years old. Following biology, a 11 year old could have sex with whoever the fucks she want. But culture interventions say NO and the cultural layer is put on top of the biological one, where culture dictates when and how a woman should engage in intercourse. We create excuses like "She's not mentality ready" and shit like this.