If you wouldn't date transgender people, where do you begin to regard their gender?
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lifa-cobex
Member
No one.
If the argument ever comes up, I would say "your all fucking idiots. It's a room for taking a piss or a shit in. If you can't play nice then none can use it and you can all fuck off home to take a dump"
My take on this:
1. I'm unsure about the science behind transgenderism, and am really not sure what to believe about what causes it etc.
2. Point 1 is completely irrelevant to the fact transgender people deserve the respect of being treated as the gender they are and present as. This isn't hard to do.
3. You aren't obliged to be attracted to everyone, and you absolutely CANNOT help who or what you are attracted to. I wish I could.
4. I know that, personally, when it comes to attraction I am attracted to the female sex and not gender. I don't believe that such preference is in any way discriminatory or anti-trans people at all.
5. The levels of violence against transgender people is outrageous, disgusting and a disgrace, so the focus should currently be on point 2.
That's my take, and I think it's fair. I've spent a lot of the last 5/6 years reading up about this stuff and changing my attitudes. It's frightening how ignorant I used to be about these issues, and there are still times I make bad mistakes. (Like a stage performer being of indeterminate gender - I couldn't tell if it was an effeminate gay man or a FTM trans and had no idea how to communicate normally without the knowledge of what the person's gender was, but I was afraid to ask outright for fear of being rude. I was perfectly polite, though, just a bit lost.)
Some things aren't preconceptions. One of the things I have always found most attractive is pale skin. It's a physical feature that turns me on. I'm not a fan of sun tans or fake tan or anything like that - I love the look of fair, pale skin. Now, certain races just aren't going to have that. Doesn't mean I can't be attracted to people from those races (and I certainly have been in the past) but It does give one group a big advantage.
I didn't choose to feel that way any more than I chose to find large breasts unattractive, which is not exactly a standard hetero preference but one I feel strongly for some reason I can in no way explain. It's just not a choice at all.
1. I'm unsure about the science behind transgenderism, and am really not sure what to believe about what causes it etc.
2. Point 1 is completely irrelevant to the fact transgender people deserve the respect of being treated as the gender they are and present as. This isn't hard to do.
3. You aren't obliged to be attracted to everyone, and you absolutely CANNOT help who or what you are attracted to. I wish I could.
4. I know that, personally, when it comes to attraction I am attracted to the female sex and not gender. I don't believe that such preference is in any way discriminatory or anti-trans people at all.
5. The levels of violence against transgender people is outrageous, disgusting and a disgrace, so the focus should currently be on point 2.
That's my take, and I think it's fair. I've spent a lot of the last 5/6 years reading up about this stuff and changing my attitudes. It's frightening how ignorant I used to be about these issues, and there are still times I make bad mistakes. (Like a stage performer being of indeterminate gender - I couldn't tell if it was an effeminate gay man or a FTM trans and had no idea how to communicate normally without the knowledge of what the person's gender was, but I was afraid to ask outright for fear of being rude. I was perfectly polite, though, just a bit lost.)
Some things aren't preconceptions. One of the things I have always found most attractive is pale skin. It's a physical feature that turns me on. I'm not a fan of sun tans or fake tan or anything like that - I love the look of fair, pale skin. Now, certain races just aren't going to have that. Doesn't mean I can't be attracted to people from those races (and I certainly have been in the past) but It does give one group a big advantage.
I didn't choose to feel that way any more than I chose to find large breasts unattractive, which is not exactly a standard hetero preference but one I feel strongly for some reason I can in no way explain. It's just not a choice at all.
If he / she has the parts and the looks / sound / smell, she's a woman (or a man) to me, with everything that goes with it, possibility of romance included. I don't find disturbing to know that he / she had a different sex before, as long as there are no physical remmants from it or whatsoever (that is, she / he has completed the sex change process completely).
That being said, I won't go out and accuse of bigotry to other persons that doesn't feel in the same way as I do. One doesn't always control his or her reptilian brain, which is afterall what is behind sex attraction and other instinctual interactions. It has nothing to do with how much good will you have towards one group or another or your political ideas.
That being said, I won't go out and accuse of bigotry to other persons that doesn't feel in the same way as I do. One doesn't always control his or her reptilian brain, which is afterall what is behind sex attraction and other instinctual interactions. It has nothing to do with how much good will you have towards one group or another or your political ideas.
Simply Sarah
Member
Since you seem to be specifically talking about trans women, well, "trans woman" and "transgender" are both the same length. Additionally, you use "a transgender" in the very post the above is quoted from.
I'm not exactly sure how he would want me to use pronouns when talking about the past, but is something I was actively thinking about while writing that up. He identifies more as queer and we've had conversations though about how he doesn't want to be viewed as "always" been one thing or the other. I also thought using different pronouns would illustrate my personal views on how I identified them.
I completely agree with using whatever pronouns that person wants used! Being cis-gendered, I probably spent a little too much time on that subject, when ultimately it just came down to, be respectful of other people's wishes.
I agree, and have talked on these very forums about how transgender people are enjoying a small fraction of the love and goodwill created by the LGBT movement.
I can understand the nondisclosure to acquaintances and all that, but is it commonplace for a transgender person to disclose their transition to people that they're dating? I feel like that'd be a shitty thing to surprise people with down the line.
chocolate disco
Neo Member
Really man? REALLY??? You should be really ashamed of oyurself.
Truly disgusting.
average neogaf poster
Basically it's one thing to prefer different skin tones, features, etc. It's a totally different thing to have a racial preference.
If you are white and you will not date a black person that is racist.
lifa-cobex
Member
Because they are black or because your not attracted to black ppl?
Basically my thoughts. Is the implication here that we have to be willing to date anyone and everyone altogether, otherwise we are prejudice? Because it's not that way at all.
Preferences. I support the rights of my fellow human beings regardless.
I have a question.
How do you tell what race someone is? What do you look at?
Is it skin tone? Features?
entremet
Member
PhantomHound
Banned
I feel like that's saying...
If you're straight and will note date a gay person, that is homophobic.
M0nochromatic
Member
I was trying to make the distinction between casual flings and actually looking for a partner when I used relationship. I should have been clearer. If I was looking for one or the other, those factors don't matter to me. This person wants to have kids, likes playing card games, enjoys reading historical literature. Those kind of factors matter much more when looking for a serious relationship. If we go over to seeking a casual fling, I still don't see being black or transgender as an issue. If they're good looking, they're good looking.
I fully agree.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
No, that's fucking ridiculous. You can't fault someone for liking what they like.
If it was a case of "I won't date them because they're black AND I FUCKING HATE BLACK PEOPLE," then yeah that would be pretty racist.
scotcheggz
Member
Pre-op or post-op, why the fuck would it matter? If you're a straight male and are attracted to that person as a female then what's between their legs isn't really an issue is it? I mean, you can still get each other off. I have rarely looked at a vagina and thought to myself "ahh yes, this vag being here, specifically, makes my relationship so much richer", I just see it as a means to an end, that end being giving my partner pleasure. I think a lot of people get hung up on genetalia, which i feel is a bit wrong, but I dunno, I'm not really up on this issue.
Basically I think all the other stuff not regarding relationships just boils down to respecting other people, doesn't it?
Basically I think all the other stuff not regarding relationships just boils down to respecting other people, doesn't it?
Is it the right of someone using a public bathroom to deny other people the right of using the same bathroom?
If there was a female-born woman who I decided looked too manly, I can't just tell her to stay out because she's making me uncomfortable.
i believe most people will tell someone they're dating, but it's probably a second or third date kind of talk. holding off a bit on disclosure is good for several different reasons, mainly because it helps protect the trans person but also because it lets their date get to know them as a person before revealing something that can generate pretty negative reactions.
good pussy is good pussy, man.
Simply Sarah
Member
This is a messy question where trans opinions most certainly are not unified. Speaking only for myself, I would certainly let a romantic partner know (maybe not on the first date, but certainly by the third/before anything intimate occurred ) simply because if that was going to be a deal breaker then we might as well determine that sooner rather than later. That and the idea of trying to keep that as a secret from a partner, even if possible, seems stressful and upsetting and something I really want to avoid.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Well, I exclusively prefer vaginas over penises, so it wouldn't really be fun for either of us if I dated a transgendered woman that hasn't had sexual reassignment surgery.
Because I like sex, and vaginal sex is pretty much the best part of it.
Because I like sex, and vaginal sex is pretty much the best part of it.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I've dated two transgirls, they are awesome.
Bathrooms should be unisex anyways.
Bathrooms should be unisex anyways.
Well it would have to be some pretty damn good post op. The moment I realized the porn I was skimming had transgender actresses I would shift from getting boner to becoming flaccid and move on.
I actually care about biology a lot and if I was told about someone being post op I wouldn't bother watching them again because my attraction has been reduced.
Personally I was talking in terms of trans women because it is easier for me to identify with a woman's discomfort around transgender women.
As I said earlier I tried thinking of a scenario where most guys would be uncomfortable being around a transgender man and it was too difficult.
As for your concern about how I used just transgender sometimes just accept that I'm going to use shorthand. In most of my posts you can see I use transgender as just an adjective.
That's kind of my point. You can't.
TatteredHat
Member
Please no, I like going to the toilet without having to stand in line!
Yes I agree on that if anyone finds something they want to fuck, they should want to fuck them. If they don't then I guess the issue isn't bigotry, but self-loathing?
If they don't want to fuck someone, then they don't. Do the reasons really matter? Do they have to answer to those they don't have a thing for, and if they can't come up with why they are horrible people?
This is only a problem for anyone of X gets rejected by Y, and Y says "it is because you are asian" instead of "I don't find you attractive."
If X says "is it because I am asian?" then X is just annoying.
... wait
Please tell me you don't think that when people are saying white and black as difference races, they don't already know they are grouping so many difference genetics in a big mix and are simplying talking about their skin colour?
Or you actually believe that someone is still "black" when they have white skin.
NO one here is saying ethic terms or even simple shit like "African decent".
PhantomHound
Banned
As a man, no thank you. I've heard the horror stories of women's bathrooms... I've seen the lines at public events. Hundreds of women waiting to go into the bathroom... while the men just pass in and out.
Wow, really? Based on what exactly?
Statements like this really misunderstand the awful nature of what racism is. It takes a serious issue and robs it of meaning.
No.
Just because I wouldn't date Bob doesn't make me homophobic at all. We need to distinguish personal preference here.
BannedEpisode
Member
I dunno, I know in a lot of places it's been around for a very long time. Not so much in western culture though.
lifa-cobex
Member
I dunno. I mean does this sort of thing ever actually happen in day to day life?
I've never seen any story's on the news in my general life.
In fact the only time I've ever seen it being an issue is when its being talked about on Gaf.
But then i'm not actively looking for this kinda thing.
Anyone got any actual story's about ppl being bias against them?
King Cobra
Banned
confusion intensifies. So she was a girl before and got a wang attached?That is certainly not true, sometimes you just don't like someone because you don't find them attractive, is it still racist if a person from another race other than white hasn't dated a black person?
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
It was my first post in this thread x3
Simply Sarah
Member
Why? What "biology" is it that is a problem here?
I'm female and honestly I never cared. I use the toilet, wash my hands and then leave.
Of course there's a whole bunch of women who like to do makeup and fix their hair in the bathroom. But in that case I think a lot of trans women would get along with them just fine.
Everyone should watch this.
I think a transgender should use the woman's bathroom, after all, that's what she looks like. I'm pretty sure she's not gonna try to pick other people's vagina under the door. The only reason I see for us having separate bathrooms is because of abuses that might occur. I don't think a transgender will do that. Anyway, if she wants to do it, a bathroom wouldn't stop.
It's time to stop segregating. If someone makes a full transformation, I wish she could use the women's bathroom.
Regarding dating, I confess that I wouldn't tell everyone that I was dating a transgender, for the same reasons someone that is gay would come out of the closet right away, but I would definitely date a hot asian transgender.
I just can't bring myself to think of any reasons why he should keep the hate on homossexuals. And I can't sympathize with anyone who hates them.
I think a transgender should use the woman's bathroom, after all, that's what she looks like. I'm pretty sure she's not gonna try to pick other people's vagina under the door. The only reason I see for us having separate bathrooms is because of abuses that might occur. I don't think a transgender will do that. Anyway, if she wants to do it, a bathroom wouldn't stop.
It's time to stop segregating. If someone makes a full transformation, I wish she could use the women's bathroom.
Regarding dating, I confess that I wouldn't tell everyone that I was dating a transgender, for the same reasons someone that is gay would come out of the closet right away, but I would definitely date a hot asian transgender.
I just can't bring myself to think of any reasons why he should keep the hate on homossexuals. And I can't sympathize with anyone who hates them.
interesting technique to admit that you are about to post something stupid, and then post it anyways.
That makes sense. I figure it would be pretty important to disclose that before embarking on a sexual relationship anyways.
This also makes sense and I appreciate the info. I don't want to pry, and feel free not to answer, but is it often a deal breaker to the people you date?
I'm pretty sure if I (male) insist on using the women's bathroom i can be arrested. At the very least the establishment i'm visiting is likely to throw me out.
Not too sure on the legal details though.
There are newspaper articles about this issue, i'm too lazy to look for them right now. It's come up in places like universities and such. How the problem was dealt with varies.
It's "problematic" because black and white people, like all ethnic groups, are extremely diverse socially defined ethnic groups with no specific physical trait shared among all members outside of ancestry/region of origin. It's not the same as saying you prefer blondes to brunettes or dating someone shorter/taller than you.
And while you aren't necessarily "racist" for not being attracted to people within a certain ethnic group, it is questionable as to why you would be less attracted to all members of such a large ethnic group regardless of physical differences.
Not, I'm not saying that at all.
I'm saying if you refuse to date someone because of their ethnicity or race and your "preference", you should re-think why you have those.
ニュハーフ？
*high fives*
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Why? Should gay men rethink the fact that they're not attracted to women?
What personal preference could one possibly have that absolutely excludes an entire race?
She was born a girl, but with a gender sex (primary and secondary sexual characteristics) that didn't match up with her gender identity (how her brain is wired).
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