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[injurai]

That's the kind of thing i was looking for, sorry for not having noticed it. Though in that instance i would argue that i wish people would give up more for love and think less of relationships as long term investments but that's a cultural thing and not under the scope of my animosity towards this subject.

I guess I wasn't super explicit on those lines. I sort of touched on this when I said I didn't believe in a soul mate. That their are a number of people out there that I could certainly have a good life with if I only found them. But I want to have kids, to pass on what I've learned and rectify the mistakes of the my parents and my own generation. Which wouldn't work in a trans relationship, and I do want at least one biological child. So I think I can both find love and make sacrifices for it, and eventually start a family. That early love wears out, so I'd rather have both than just settle for relationship with a trans-woman when honeymoon love is fleeting. I realize this is a (cis) hetero privilege with a much larger pull to fish in. I know in in my life that my own career goals and educational interests are what drive me and give me purpose in life. I hope my partner has a life and goals beyond just the family. I can't entirely shirk long term planning ideals.

Thanks though for leading the discussion out of the much of the murk, I had to drop out for a while until I saw your efforts.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I don't really care if she's from Iran

Jokes aside as others have said, you can respect their choice but don't necessarily have to date.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

For me it's similar to religion. If it makes the person feel better or "Complete" by being called a man/woman it's not my place to tell them they can't be called that, but I don't truly see them as the opposite gender they were born as even if they went through extensive surgery. If someone wants to be called he instead of she or vice-versa then I don't really mind obliging though.

"I don't believe people that claim to have depression, but I'm willing to go along humoring their delusions because I'm just that good of a person."

Or you can replace depression with anything that is certainly real and certainly affects you.

 

[Bold One]

I don't really care if she's from Iran

Spoiler

somebody plz get this

Jokes aside as others have said, you can respect their choice but don't necessarily have to date.

I get the reference

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Eh, I can't really think of a reason why I wouldn't date a transgendered female. Hell, If I really liked someone, their previous gender would be less of an issue then some other things.

As for the bathroom question, I'm not sure why this would ever be an issue. At concerts the women's lineup gets long, so I've seen women inside the men's washroom. Nobody cared.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

MY MAN!

 

[Union Carbine]

You still haven't shown me how me recognizing transwomen as women is contradictory with the fact that I don't want to date them.

I apologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting but you don't see the contradiction in these statements?

• I date women
• Transgender women are women
• I don't date transgender women

 

[| Praxis |]

I wouldn't date a transgender woman, it's just a preference I will have to live with. I just couldn't make that separation in my own mind, romantically speaking.

Doesn't mean I have any less respect for the person or how I would treat them otherwise. I don't see why this attitude, that doesn't cause anybody any harm or influenced by hatred in any way can be controversial to some?

 

[User 479360]

I wouldn't date a transgender woman, it's just a preference I will have to live with. I just couldn't make that separation in my own mind, romantically speaking.

Doesn't mean I have any less respect for the person or how I would treat them.

This

I'm sorry if it offends.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I apologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting but you don't see the contradiction in these statements?

• I date women
• Transgender women are women
• I don't date transgender women

Is it a contradiction if you replace transgender with any other adjective?

 

[Mumei]

I'd appreciate it if everyone made an attempt to be less defensive when asked to explain their position or challenged on it. If you think something is a gotcha question - and I haven't seen anyone ask a question where I thought to myself, "Oh, I better wait to see how they respond to this post so I know whether to ban them" - don't respond to the post. It's okay to be wrong about something, anyway, so I don't see what the fear is about someone catching you in being wrong.

Look, prejudice is defined as:
A preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

But someone fucking KNOWS what they are and aren't sexually aroused by. It's a mental thing, in their head, we all know what turns us on, and it's not hard to define. So if a person knows they aren't aroused by the concept of dating someone with a penis or a fake vagina, then their judgment is absolutely based on reason, seeing as arousal is a prerequisite for dating.

Since the arousal itself is not 'an opinion', but rather instinctual, there is no prejudice at play at any stage of this.

Right. But isn't, "I wouldn't be attracted to a trans woman,"a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience"?

I can understand if someone found a particular trans woman attractive, but decide not to pursue a serious relationship because, say, you were really just that attached to the idea of having children with your significant other. Or something like that. But when people make the blanket comment, about all trans women, that they wouldn't find a trans woman attractive, how does that not fit your definition of a prejudiced attitude?

Also, try to pay attention to how you talk about this. Saying "a fake vagina" mightn't be deliberately antagonistic but it's close enough to make no difference.

 

[finowns]

Why should people be forced to justify who they want to be in an intimate relationship with?

I don't many people will be able to provide peer reviewed scientific studies and rational thought in most dating situations as some people are seemingly asking for.

No justification necessary and who is being forced? Just interested in what goes into the decision making process. It is interesting, isn't it?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I apologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting but you don't see the contradiction in these statements?

• I date women
• Transgender women are women
• I don't date transgender women

There is no contradiction there. I already date women, but I don't date every woman who asks me. There are multiple reasons I wouldn't date a woman, so adding another one to the list doesn't make it contradictory.

You could just as easily go:

I date women
Fat women are women
I don't date fat women

Nothing about that is contradictory.

 

[finowns]

There is no contradiction there. I already date women, but I don't date every woman who asks me. There are multiple reasons I wouldn't date a woman, so adding another one to the list doesn't make it contradictory.

You could just as easily go:

I date women
Fat women are women
I don't date fat women

Nothing about that is contradictory.

You date attractive women.

 

[Earthstrike]

Gender is not genetic, so yeah, that's a bigoted belief.

What makes you say gender is not genetic? There's evidence that it's a certain region of the brain that controls for gender identity and that region is structurally different between males and females. Since they structure of the brain would presumably be in some part genetic, wouldn't that make gender likely genetic? The strongest counterargument against this might be the fraternal birth order effect (It applies to transexualism as well).

 

[Moral Panic]

You date attractive women.

Does he?

 

[Soph]

I apologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting but you don't see the contradiction in these statements?

• I date women
• Transgender women are women
• I don't date transgender women

There is no contradiction in this statement.

Maybe you misunderstand: First sentence does not mean "I date all women" but rather "I date some women" Else we'd get into a discussion about semantics and nobody being able to say they like women anymore without meaning they have to absolutely like all women to be able to make that statement.

 

[finowns]

Does he?

Now I'm wondering if I was unclear.

 

[Jburton]

Now I'm wondering if I was unclear.

Fat women can't be attractive ?

 

[THRILLH0]

You got a point, my friend. I always figured it was something a social group knew and told you before you're introduced to a person. Kinda like a person being gay.

What social groups do you run in that feel the need to give you advanced notice of someone being gay?

 

[Simplet]

I apologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting but you don't see the contradiction in these statements?

• I date women
• Transgender women are women
• I don't date transgender women

Well no.

edit : damn it I was trying to add a Venn diagram, but someone already made my point anyway

 

[Union Carbine]

See above.

it's not a technicality-- it's a question aimed at the very basis of your argument. It just sounds like you're dodging now. If you don't want to answer, so be it.

 

[Griss]

Right. But isn't, "I wouldn't be attracted to a trans woman,"a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience"?

I can understand if someone found a particular trans woman attractive, but decide not to pursue a serious relationship because, say, you were really just that attached to the idea of having children with your significant other. Or something like that. But when people make the blanket comment, about all trans women, that they wouldn't find a trans woman attractive, how does that not fit your definition of a prejudiced attitude?

Also, try to pay attention to how you talk about this. Saying "a fake vagina" mightn't be deliberately antagonistic but it's close enough to make no difference.

As to the bolded, no, not at all, that's the point. I really believe you're not quite getting me. Perhaps it's semantics. I can find a trans woman beautiful. That's not enough to be 'attracted' to someone. Attraction is beauty + arousal (the idea of fucking). Otherwise you'd just be friends. And arousal, for me, requires the idea of a natural set of female genitals.

So I'm not saying 'I wouldn't be attracted to a trans woman in a hypothetical situation', I'm saying 'I'm NOT attracted to trans women'. There's nothing preconceived about this, because I know it. I know this because the biological features of a woman are a huge part of what turns me on. The concept of a natural vagina, and giving head to such, and ejaculating into someone with a womb - these are all core parts of the ideas that turn me on and I've stated this many times. For obvious reasons no trans women can fulfil this, therefore don't meet my needs, so to speak. When I think about a vagina being a penis turned inside-out I lose my arousal completely. How is this preconceived, it's simply what I experience inside my own head, and denying it would be as odd as denying the fact that I hate the taste of tomatoes because I have a friend who grows them as his business. (That's true, btw, lol) This is why I say I'm attracted to the female sex rather than gender. What's in the pants is at least as important as looks. Remember, I'm the guy who grew up jerking it to cross-sections of uteri. Female biology turns me on.

And I apologise for the 'fake vagina' comment but it does go to the heart of what I feel. Perhaps I should use 'non-natural' instead.

 

[THRILLH0]

I apologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting but you don't see the contradiction in these statements?

• I date women
• Transgender women are women
• I don't date transgender women

• I eat food
• Anchovies are food
• I don't eat anchovies

Contradictions everywhere!!

 

[GoldenEye 007]

No justification necessary and who is being forced? Just interested in what goes into the decision making process. It is interesting, isn't it?

I mean, seems like there is a lot of pressure in here to keep asking for one.

I don't know if who people decide is attractive or date is exactly dominated by rational thought. I haven't understood dating in general to be something that can be fully rationally understood.

 

[Higgins113]

I apologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting but you don't see the contradiction in these statements?

• I date women
• Transgender women are women
• I don't date transgender women

I play games
Call of Duty is a game
I don't play Call of Duty

Dat contradiction

 

[Union Carbine]

I play games
Call of Duty is a game
I don't play Call of Duty

Dat contradiction

So the entire spectrum of trans women all fit into one category of women apart from all others?

 

[finowns]

Fat women can't be attractive ?

According to Zen_Arcade no.

 

[QuickSilverD]

Somehow I think you think this makes you a nice person. It doesn't.

Actually it does. he just does not agrees with you.

Why doesn't it? It seems like a personally acceptable way to deal with people, no? Is having any kind of dissenting view on trangenderism enough to make you a bad person even if you respect the rights of said people and treat them as they wish? Because, if so, that's insane. You don't want rights, in that case, you want ideological subordination.

I don't like to say it, but it often feels like that with these people, maybe is the effect of living in a bubble?

Problem arrives when that preference goes from "I don't like tall women" to "I don't like people who has A+ blood"

One is understandable, other makes no sense.

you keep making these comparison as if they made sense, but they don't, physical bodies are a big deal to most people, why can't you accept that?

Now that I think about it, I could be a masculine, lesbian, woman in a male body. I'm not sure how I could tell though.

Do you have a penis, Are you comfortable having said penis? if so you are not transgender

 

[Count Dookkake]

So the entire spectrum of trans women all fit into one category of women apart from all others?

As much as fat or smart or gymnast or blonde or Republican, etc.

 

[injurai]

So the entire spectrum of trans women all fit into one category of women apart from all others?

obviously, and it can be disjoint from the set of woman that a person is interested in but doesn't have to be

set theory, whoda thunk

 

[Simplet]

So the entire spectrum of trans women all fit into one category of women apart from all others?

Well all trans women are trans, if that's what you're asking.

 

[Union Carbine]

As much as fat or smart or gymnast or blonde or Republican, etc.

Except what does they're being trans have anything to do with those other traits?

 

[HK-47]

I apologize in advance if I'm misinterpreting but you don't see the contradiction in these statements?

• I date women
• Transgender women are women
• I don't date transgender women

You should take a Logic class.

 

[injurai]

Except what does they're being trans have anything to do with those other traits?

the entire spectrum of republican woman fit into the republican woman category, not that hard

 

[Kinsei]

Actually it does. he just does not agrees with you.

I don't like to say it, but it often feels like that with these people, maybe is the effect of living in a bubble?

Go fuck yourself. You have no idea what my life has been like.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Except what does they're being trans have anything to do with those other traits?

Nothing, duh.

They are examples of traits one might use to delineate between subsets of women.

What are you having difficulty with?

 

[QuickSilverD]

So the entire spectrum of trans women all fit into one category of women apart from all others?

I would argue that it does, a supercategory if you will, just like cis-women would be a category of women

 

[gutter_trash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UQ7HoOJwfQ

 

[Zornack]

I don't think you guys are quite grasping those three statements which Union Carbine put forward. If you say you date women but not tall women then right there is the adjective that removes them from your dating pool - tall. That is the differentiator. So if you are open to dating women but not trans women than there is something inherent about a person being trans which turns you off.

So what could that inherent characteristics be?

* At one point in time they were physically male.

* They either have a penis or surgically constructed vagina.

* They can not bear children.

It has to be one of those reasons, doesn't it?

 

[QuickSilverD]

Go fuck yourself. You have no idea what my life has been like.

I am not commenting on your life, just on your posts

 

[Unbounded]

I'm sure it's been asked already,(probably multiple times), but assuming there was a magic wand procedure that allowed someone to perfectly transition into a woman or man with no complications whatsoever and allowed their organs to all function as such in a way where it was indistinguishable from someone who was born said sex, but you still had the knowledge that they were previously a man or woman, would you date them or not?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I don't think you guys are quite grasping those three statements. If you say you date women but not tall women then right there is the adjective that removes them from your dating pool - tall. That is the differentiator. So if you are open to dating women but not trans women than there is something inherent about a person being trans which turns you off.

So what could that inherent characteristics be?

* At one point in time they were physically male.

* They have either penises or surgically constructed vaginas.

* They can not bear children.

It has to be one of those reasons, doesn't it?

For me it's the first one. That doesn't mean I don't treat them as women now, it means I'm not attracted to them because of what they used to be.

 

[SCChappy]

Transgender women are women. Transgender men are men. You don't romantically connect with every single person you meet, whether cisgender, transgender or any way they identify. There's a difference between saying you wouldn't want to date someone, and saying you wouldn't want to date someone because they are transgender. You're not attracted to everyone, but you shouldn't refuse someone you connect with just because they're trans.

 

[Union Carbine]

I don't think you guys are quite grasping those three statements which Union Carbine put forward. If you say you date women but not tall women then right there is the adjective that removes them from your dating pool - tall. That is the differentiator. So if you are open to dating women but not trans women than there is something inherent about a person being trans which turns you off.

So what could that inherent characteristics be?

* At one point in time they were physically male.

* They either have a penis or surgically constructed vagina.

* They can not bear children.

It has to be one of those reasons, doesn't it?

Thanks. You put it better than I was doing.

 

[lord quas]

I'm sure it's been asked already,(probably multiple times), but assuming there was a magic wand procedure that allowed someone to perfectly transition into a woman or man with no complications whatsoever and allowed their organs to all function as such in a way where it was indistinguishable from someone who was born said sex, but you still had the knowledge that they were previously a man or woman, would you date them or not?

No, I would not. Being attracted to someone is largely psychological.

 

[Kinsei]

I am not commenting on your live, just on your posts

I don't like to say it, but it often feels like that with these people, maybe is the effect of living in a bubble?

.

 

[esms]

What social groups do you run in that feel the need to give you advanced notice of someone being gay?

I was under the impression that they were normal circles. The only people who I've learned about their sexuality after meeting are coworkers, for obvious reasons.

It's not like a warning or anything. Just a facet of that person's life.

 

[HUELEN10]

Transgender women are women. Transgender men are men. You don't romantically connect with every single person you meet, whether cisgender, transgender or any way they identify. There's a difference between saying you wouldn't want to date someone, and saying you wouldn't want to date someone because they are transgender. You're not attracted to everyone, but you shouldn't refuse someone you connect with just because they're trans.

Not even if your priority number one in life when it comes to relationships is direct genetic procreation or religious obligations though?

 

[Log4Girlz]

I'm sure it's been asked already,(probably multiple times), but assuming there was a magic wand procedure that allowed someone to perfectly transition into a woman or man with no complications whatsoever and allowed their organs to all function as such in a way where it was indistinguishable from someone who was born said sex, but you still had the knowledge that they were previously a man or woman, would you date them or not?

Yes. We'll have that within day 75 years at the latest.