how do you know?
If you wouldn't date transgender people, where do you begin to regard their gender?
- Thread starter wildfire
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how do you know?
King Cobra
Banned
My opinions are too brash and lack empathy to post without getting banned but even as a straight male if I ended up dating someone like bailey jay that pretty much looks like a girl but isn't I don't know how I would feel once I found out.
Simply Sarah
Member
Look, I'm resigned to the fact that people in this thread will assert that I'm not really a woman, but I'd at least like to request to not be nouned like in the thread title. Transgender is an adjective and we're transgender people, not "transgenders".
Also, uh, not all transgender people ID as female. There are quite a lot of trans men or non-binary folk, too.
Also, uh, not all transgender people ID as female. There are quite a lot of trans men or non-binary folk, too.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
How is preferring white girls to black girls "problematic"?
You don't get to choose who you find attractive.
If gay and straight people can share bathrooms, why do we draw the line at transgender people?
GameGuru59
Banned
BTW, when did this separation (male equating to sex, and man equating to gender) occur?
Captainbojanglesiii
Banned
How is that problematic? People are naturally more attracted to certain races or groups.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
It wasn't Roy, it was Renham, and the subsequent fight was amazingly hilarious
Gay men and women choose to be so?
I don't think you should get banned for saying how you feel. People can disagree but whatever, this thread isn't here to just try and make people raise their hand and say they disagree, it's asking for opinion.
If, for some reason, I found out my SO was trans and for 3 years including no one in her family ever mentioning it I would feel betrayed. Not because she is trans, but because it was kept secret.
If I meet a trans woman then I will see how my feelings are then. I just wouldn't know until I met the person. If my SO told me she was and we hung out as friends for a while, I don't see how I couldn't have developed similar feelings towards her, but I at least would have thought about what it actually means. I would still be attracted physically but I would wonder if her family and friends knew her from before, what she looked like etc. that's how I am, and it may or may not get too weird. But nothing would happen since I would know for sure I couldn't have kids with her.
God Dayumm
Banned
Because on one scenario you're trampling on their human rights, the other is a personal decision that only affects yourself unless you are shoving your justification for that decision on everyone's head.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
So people are choosing to be gay?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm not physically attracted to every woman. That doesn't mean they're not all women
something about index fingers and ring fingers...I forget :/
GameGuru59
Banned
If you just exclude white or black girls on the fact they are black or white girls, that would be racist basically.
Something something Kinsey Scale?
It's common for straight males to seek specifically trans pre-op.
The same way it is sexist to want to have a boy or girl baby.
But really I think people will look for a certain type, but can fall for people outside of it. If a person has feelings for someone but then choosing not to persue them based on their race, THEN that is racist.
About two years ago, I dated a girl. A few months into it and she told me she was having a lot of gender issues she was struggling with and that this wasn't a good time for her to date, so she broke up with me.
Jumping forward to the present, he's figured some stuff out and now identifies as a transgender man and is currently jumping through all the fun hoops that is telling her family, trying to get hormones, and applying for grad school. A lot going on.
We've stayed friends the entire time though, partly because I maybe still had feelings for him, but also because I knew he didn't have a lot of social support and I felt like my romantic feelings for him could be put aside so I could be there for this amazing person.
I'm not sure what I wanted to add to this conversation other then my story. I think my evolving relationship with him has made me look at gender and my relationship to people in general in a new light.
Jumping forward to the present, he's figured some stuff out and now identifies as a transgender man and is currently jumping through all the fun hoops that is telling her family, trying to get hormones, and applying for grad school. A lot going on.
We've stayed friends the entire time though, partly because I maybe still had feelings for him, but also because I knew he didn't have a lot of social support and I felt like my romantic feelings for him could be put aside so I could be there for this amazing person.
I'm not sure what I wanted to add to this conversation other then my story. I think my evolving relationship with him has made me look at gender and my relationship to people in general in a new light.
TatteredHat
Member
People have preferences, your attempt at shaming them for having preferences is what's problematic here.
Tesseract
Banned
you like what you like, that's not racist
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No it's not. Saying you don't find any black women attractive might be potentially racist, but having a preference towards one or the other isn't.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Wat?
....Wat?
You just said that you preferred white women to black women and said you can't help who you're attracted to. This isn't about sexual orientation, it's about selective physical traits outside of sexual orientation.
I think sexual preference isn't something you can really choose, but certain physical traits are. Which is why they're preferences. But then you for example lump physical preferences with ethnicity, that isn't cool. It's like saying "I don't like curly hair" and then saying "I don't date black girls because curly hair", forgetting about white girls with curly hair or black girls with (naturally) straight hair.
They aren't the same thing; don't make me out to be a bigot.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Personally I do not believe Bloodrage is equating biological sex to gender. I would believe he is referring to "Sex" as the biological and physiological characteristics that define males as having X and Y chromosome and female having XX chromosome. While gender is relating to the socially constructed roles.
So the OP question is not worded correctly. Since all transgender will be able to correctly refer to the proper gender they are
Theoretically, it has always existed, if my current and personal definition of gender is accepted (less biological, more psychosocial – which I am sure some disagree with). When academics and activists conceptualised the distinction, however, I would like to know as well.
My question is more specific to what sex is like. Is there a vagina? Is there a g-spot in the vagina? Is lube needed? In the other instance, does the penis become erect? Does it ejaculate?
If my questions are embarrassingly ignorant, well it's because I'm ignorant when it comes to this.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Well, I actually never said that if you'd read my post. My GF of nearly 5 years isn't white. Maybe you can, but I can't pick and choose who I find attractive.
I really challenged myself into understanding what my apprehensions are on this subject and I've come to a compromise and its a shallow one.
I'd probably date a transgender woman that looks very feminine and is really attractive.
I'm still trying to challenge my bias but so far this is my personal best.
Yeah 12 posts is right up there.
I'd probably date a transgender woman that looks very feminine and is really attractive.
I'm still trying to challenge my bias but so far this is my personal best.
Yeah 12 posts is right up there.
There's a lot that goes into how you mind rationalizes attraction. There's probably more to who you find and don't find attractive than "I just like what I like," but we're not explicitly aware of those factors.
as a wise man once said, head is head.
as a wise man once said, head is head.
As someone who is trans it's hurtful to read shit like this; not just for me, but for others here as well.
She is a girl.
You got a point, my friend. I always figured it was something a social group knew and told you before you're introduced to a person. Kinda like a person being gay.
There is certainly truth in what you're saying. At a very base level, people find certain people or groups more attractive. I think it is something people should evaluate within themselves, ESPECIALLY when it comes to something like race or ethnicity.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
This sentence doesn't make any sense. You're saying that sexual preference is something you CAN'T choose, and then you say that certain physical traits are something you can choose because they're preferences.
Why is a sexual preference something that you can't choose, but all of the other preferences are?
Take a moment and think about what you are saying.
We are attracted to people based on looks, mostly. Men look like men, women look like women, sexual orientation is pretty much down to this. It is prefering looks, not specifically what chromosomes they have. So preferring what kinds of men or what kinds of women is no more different than someone preferring someone for being tall or fuck, beautiful/ugly, fat, skinny etc.
If sexual orientation had nothing to do with image then straight men would be at least bisexual just for finding trans women attractive.
I know of a gay guy who apparently had sex with a trans man. He had to press against his lower chest to get the blood flowing or something like that, and it was pretty complicated the whole way. That's one story anyway. I think it would be simpler that whoever has a perfectly working dick just goes in a hole that works.
Depends on the people though.
I want to know when a lesbian couple considers they have done enough to lose their viginity. One girl told me it would be when one goes down on the other, or when they both decide for themselves. I don't know if a lesbian community has decided "when it counts".
Simply Sarah
Member
I don't know what he prefers and I can see you're trying to be respectful, but I just want to note that many trans people prefer that all pronouns and gendered terms used to describe them past, present, and future match their current gender identity. But he may feel differently so I can't say anything for his specific case. Thank you for supporting him!
M0nochromatic
Member
If I meet a self identified woman with lady parts who's into the same things I am, her being black or transgender doesn't really matter in terms of creating a relationship. I bring up race because it seems to be a comparable reason for not dating people whenever these threads happen, and it's already being discussed. I can't imagine seeing a good looking person and then going "well they're perfect, but their skin is dark so no deal."or "Man they're attractive, but then they told me they're transgender and I can't get sexually aroused now." I get that's how it works for some ladies and gents out there, but I guess I'm more open to different individuals then most.
It's a strange way to discriminate.
It's a strange way to discriminate.
This is wrong. For a variety of reasons. Very few things about the human body is absolute, and technology and increasing biological knowledge are breaking down conventional wisdom all the time.
I had a teacher at university for a "cultural foundations" which we roughly translated to white people suck class, that said exactly that. Flat out said you were racist if you were white and wouldn't date a black person.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I just read it again and...well...it's the same.
I'm not saying preferences are a problem. I'm just saying when those preferences start to lock out entire ethnic groups on preconceived notions that don't even hold true the whole way through, that is a problem. It's even okay to have preferences that sort of teeter into that direction, but if it makes you go "I'll NEVER date a (insert ethnic group) girl", well then you've got a problem on your hands.
Gender and ethnic preferences are separate things, mostly because gender "preference" doesn't actually exist. But other things, like wanting someone based on hair style or height, etc...those are preferences, they exist. I think some of that can be shaped by a person internally, yes.
My issue's with people who just take the hardline. Like saying you'd never date a trans woman or man because reasons, or never date someone who's X ethnicity or Y height because reasons. And then sticking firmly to that, even if they hit it off.
I don't even think they're really the same thing. Science proves sexual orientation is genetic, but not preferences for desiring members in a certain sex due to height, hair, ethnicity etc. All the "science" backing that up comes down to subjective reasons. And again, that's cool. But then trying to flip it so it becomes your hardline for only going with those preferences-and only those who fit those preferences- is a problem.
Basically, if you have two hot women approach you and one's a bit more to your preferences, you'd probably go for that one. But someone doing it the right way, let's say it's just the other girl....they'd still go with her. The ones going about it the wrong way would basically not take the other girl even if she was the only option out of the two, simply because she doesn't meet ALL of their preferences.
Because there's science that backs up sexual preference to....
....oh shit. Hold on a moment. I think I've been a bit sloppy here. By sexual preference, I meant sexual identity. I.e someone believing they're homosexual, or bisexual, or heterosexual. So with that I mean coming moreso from the person internally. That's scientifically proven to be genetic. You can't choose to be hetero, or bi, or homo etc. So naturally you can't help but find a particular gender sexually attractive. So I guess in that case, the problem is in failing to respect another person's sexual identity, particularly someone who says they're a transgendered woman but all you can think about is "they have a dick". There's no mutual communication there, when there should be.
Physical preferences like wanting a person of certain hair, height, build, skin tone etc...I don't think that's as genetic as others think. If it were absolutely genetic, there'd be no studies confirming how media influences people's perceptions of others, sometimes significantly. So while it's okay to have those preferences, you should be open to dating outside of them as well, since at that point it's more of what you're telling yourself in your head to enable/disable that, than something genetic you can't control.
because some women don't want men, or people that look like men, in their bathroom (and vis versa) because they feel threathened / uncomfortable.
Just like, a transgender person might feel threatened/uncomfortable in a mens/women's bathroom.
Whose rights do you weigh higher? why?
Not everyone dates just based on:
1. Am I sexually attacted to X
2. Is X available and wants to date me
That's actually really shallow for creating a relationship.
being gay is far more socially acceptable these days. imagine meeting a gay person in the 80s who was out to his or her friends but not generally, they wouldn't be throwing that information around freely.
so many people get judgmental or even violent with trans folk that not disclosing right away is not only normal it's practically a necessity.
So I as a man wouldn't date a transgender person because they biologically aren't a woman.
I advocate transgender using the same bathrooms as women because it is ok to treat them as such.
In one case I'm treating them as one gender and in the other the opposite.
I wouldn't date a transgender person because it makes me extremely uncomfortable. It doesn't help any matters that since I want to be a parent conception would require a surrogate I don't want to be involved with.
Why is it ok for me to tell women yeah it's ok for a transgender person to use a public space that is tied so closely to maintaining the dignity of themselves and their peers. I'm sure some are ok with sharing with a transgender but most clearly feel it is a violation of their space as women.
While I wasn't doing it maliciously I still am enforcing my own sense of identity while trying to encourage others to devalue their own.
Well I was asking in general where people draw a line in acknowledging how someone regards themselves. I can see how it can be easier for others post-op but for me it wouldn't matter.
*chuckles* Anecdotally no. I've been trying to think of an example where most of us guys would be uncomfortable being around a transgender male that is as relatable as the dating question but the fact I was having difficulty was another reason I felt my male privilege was skewing my perspective on a matter that makes women uncomfortable.
I would think women like having specific spaces where they can just be women just like we do. The pervert angle matters a lot but I feel it goes hand in hand with how women want to identify themselves.
Actually that's a problem partially caused by character limitations. I had to cut out the word individuals because there wasn't enough room.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I guess you should read it a 3rd time, because I never said I prefer white women to black women.
As for the rest of your post, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think people get to choose what they find attractive.
khamsinvera
Member
I'll all for equality
However, my penis is pretty racist and sexist
However, my penis is pretty racist and sexist
GameGuru59
Banned
That's pretty much what I'm saying.
Message to OP
If I showed you some hot as fuck softcore porn and you fapped to it, and then I told you after that it was a transgendered person, how would you feel about that?
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I'll answer for you. Nothing. You would feel nothing because it's the female form you are sexually attracted to, not the biology.
You wouldn't date that person but you would feel attracted to them. Sounds pretty normal to me.
That's not what people will read and disagree with you on. It sounds like you consider it racist if I tick enthic preferences on a dating site, or if I searched for "white/black/asian girl porn" as opposed to just "girl porn". Those are simply preferences.
My quote, which is what you are saying you agreeing with to clarify, is when someone goes "I really like you but... I mean, you're black =(." And that's a dealbreaker because "insert racist reasoning here".
If I showed you some hot as fuck softcore porn and you fapped to it, and then I told you after that it was a transgendered person, how would you feel about that?
--
I'll answer for you. Nothing. You would feel nothing because it's the female form you are sexually attracted to, not the biology.
You wouldn't date that person but you would feel attracted to them. Sounds pretty normal to me.
That's not what people will read and disagree with you on. It sounds like you consider it racist if I tick enthic preferences on a dating site, or if I searched for "white/black/asian girl porn" as opposed to just "girl porn". Those are simply preferences.
My quote, which is what you are saying you agreeing with to clarify, is when someone goes "I really like you but... I mean, you're black =(." And that's a dealbreaker because "insert racist reasoning here".
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