Delta Assault
Member
A lie of omission is still a lie. The first duty is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth. It is the guiding principle on which we are based.
If you wouldn't date transgender people, where do you begin to regard their gender?
- Thread starter wildfire
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A lie of omission is still a lie. The first duty is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth. It is the guiding principle on which we are based.
Well, that's my opinion. But what you are doing is constantly telling other people to fuck off or calling them assholes.
Disagree with my opinion all you want, that's completely fine, but stop with the insults please.
EDIT: You know what? I'm out of the thread now. I don't want to start a controversy on the pronoun I used and I would keep using. Carry on. Peace.
It might. I mean, i'm not taking myself as a reference and I was only approached by a transwoman twice (in clubs, usually I was the one being hit on, and twice I was really not into it, despite the women looking pretty fine by my personal tastes).
Maybe if someday it happens to me i'll change my mind ? Again, I don't want to put myself above fate/future happenings, just stating what I feel right now as some random cis-pleb
You're saying I;m not who I know I am so no it's not just your fucking opinion.
"Attraction" might be strong a word that I used
I was mostly imagining something silly in my head. I'm not homosexual so in the end I wouldn't go out with a transman as well anyway. But I dunno, I guess imagination plays a role in my own brainBut you do realize you're insulting trans women when refering to them with 'him' or 'he' right? I'm sure it's just Kinsei's opinion that you're an asshole too.
AlimNassor
Banned
No, and theres nothing wrong with it. Sexual attraction is a big part of a relation. I'm not some bigoted monster because I'm not attracted to her. Why am I some kind of bigoted monster because I won't have sex with a transgendered person? I have no issues with them, I support them fully but, I couldn't be turned on.
User 73706
Banned
Deliberately calling someone the incorrect pronoun based on the gender they were born with is not an opinion. You can't in all good faith see a woman and then say "oh, that's a man. That's just how I feel about it." That's just being a dick.
Simply Sarah
Member
Oh hey, I look back in and this thread has moved on to outright using incorrect pronouns because "that's my opinion". Lol, fuck this thread. People aren't even pretending to vaguely tolerate trans people in here anymore, it's outright explicit rejection. I'm sure once we give a few more hours it'll turn into how guys need to beat us disgusting and deceptive trannies into our place.
liliththepale
Banned
I've seen a lot of trans men that I find attractive. Ultimately, whether I'd date one depends on how much baggage they have. I'm fairly easy going, so I don't want someone who makes it a struggle to live every day, but I'm not opposed in principle. It probably also helps that I don't care about children right now.
Palette Swap
Member
Still, it's completely insensitive to use these pronouns gratuitously like that: they don't further your point in any way and are hurtful to people who have to cope with enough shit in their daily life without your grammatical peculiarisms.
Honestly, go lurk and read a few pages of the transgender thread, that should give you some perspective.
A white lie to prevent needless drama
Not trying to make you change your mind, trying to think in solutions, rather than going down the same lane's we been down a thousand times.
John Kowalski
Banned
oh jeez louise this is getting dark
You're usually a cool guy, it's a bit sad that this is your outlook. You using the wrong pronoun for transgender people is far more insulting for them than anyone calling "asshole" anyone.
I'm seeing this new type of sea-lioning / tone policing quite a bit lately but you have almost perfected it. I really have to step back and commend it, you are a modern day da Vinci.
RageWaffles
Member
Someone else's gender is not your opinion. Either use the correct ones or stick with "they" and "them".
I was about to say. It just got pretty close to bigotry up in here.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
A lie is a lie, though.
Surprised it's been allowed to go on this long. Full of people who have very little idea of what they're talking about, misgendering, and saying "transgendered". Surprised I've seen no response to this (not that it's very on topic I suppose):
Because I got a bit of news for you..
QuickSilverD
Member
I hope you're not about to tell me I need to be a pansexual in order to not be a bigot
Union Carbine
Member
Trans is not a trait. A trans woman does not identify herself as a trans woman, she identifies herself as a woman. A trans man does not identify himself as a trans man but as a man.
User 73706
Banned
Knowledge as applied to an evolving humanity is a privilege, not a right. People do not base their whole lives around making sure they soak up every modicum of information from every stimulant they come across. The "first duty" you're talking about is learning, not honesty. We're not Knights of the Round dedicated to perpetiating some grand abiding truth. People do not owe one another dick when it comes to knowledge. Plenty of people prefer not to disclose particular elements of their lives because of the associated emotional baggage and recalling those experiences subsequently triggering them. We live in a world where a majority are transphobic; don't you think the time transgender individuals spent being the genders they don't identify with might carry a lot of negative weight?
Wait, what? Is "transgendered person (woman, man)" unacceptable? Genuinely curious on the semantics. If it's offensive I'll stop.
It's not the least subtle form of racism, but it's not the most subtle either..
I wouldn't call it offensive, but it does show how uneducated you are on the topic of gender and/or basic grammar.
No one says "yes hello I am a gendered male", so why would you say transgendered? It's not a verb.
| Praxis |
Banned
I'm surprised to see the term tranny in this thread, is this an accepted term? It was always considered an insult from where I'm from (uk).
It's a slur.
liliththepale
Banned
Delta Assault
Member
Couldn't this be an example of a Ship of Theseus thought experiment?
"The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their places, in so much that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same."
Plutarch, Theseus
You could credibly argue that it's still the ship of Theseus, while others might argue that it's an entirely new ship.
Jaffaboy
Member
I couldn't date someone that's trans because I'm too selfish, weak, and have irrational standards.
Selfish because I want to make my own children one day.
Weak because I would probably care too much about what other people thought. I'm totally cool with the fact that trans women are women and would never argue against that fact, but the fact that other people don't agree would mean it would be more of a struggle than in a conventional relationship. This goes along with selfish too.
Irrational because I'd be bugged by the fact that they used to have a penis, and I don't think I could get that out of my head. It would most likely effect the relationship negatively because of this disposition.
I'm not proud of any of these qualities, but through dating someone who was naturally born a woman I would immediately eliminate all of these issues instantly. I'd be in a conventional relationship and not have to give them a second thought, and therefore focus more on the relationship like I should.
If some of you think that makes me a terrible person, so be it, but I don't think I'm unlike a good majority of people, and I recognise my weaknesses, and I'm only talking frankly and honestly. I hope that over time my attitudes change, but this is how I feel at this time and I don't actually know what I could do to change them. I agree with all the science and labels and path to equality, but in terms of dating, it's just irrational and illogical.
This is why I feel I can support trans people and their choices in life, and I would stand up for a trans person and the rights of the trans community, but due to my own faults in my character I don't think I could be in a relationship with someone trans. As far as I know, I've never met a trans person and maybe if I did and was initially attracted to them, then maybe that would make me think differently, who knows.
Selfish because I want to make my own children one day.
Weak because I would probably care too much about what other people thought. I'm totally cool with the fact that trans women are women and would never argue against that fact, but the fact that other people don't agree would mean it would be more of a struggle than in a conventional relationship. This goes along with selfish too.
Irrational because I'd be bugged by the fact that they used to have a penis, and I don't think I could get that out of my head. It would most likely effect the relationship negatively because of this disposition.
I'm not proud of any of these qualities, but through dating someone who was naturally born a woman I would immediately eliminate all of these issues instantly. I'd be in a conventional relationship and not have to give them a second thought, and therefore focus more on the relationship like I should.
If some of you think that makes me a terrible person, so be it, but I don't think I'm unlike a good majority of people, and I recognise my weaknesses, and I'm only talking frankly and honestly. I hope that over time my attitudes change, but this is how I feel at this time and I don't actually know what I could do to change them. I agree with all the science and labels and path to equality, but in terms of dating, it's just irrational and illogical.
This is why I feel I can support trans people and their choices in life, and I would stand up for a trans person and the rights of the trans community, but due to my own faults in my character I don't think I could be in a relationship with someone trans. As far as I know, I've never met a trans person and maybe if I did and was initially attracted to them, then maybe that would make me think differently, who knows.
ShooterMcGavin
Member
That's not fair at all. My sexual preferences now force me to accept a label of "racist?"
Union Carbine
Member
In what way?
Talk about reaching.
That's a great question and thank you for trying to flip the perspective.
As long as the attraction is mutual I would be open to that..
Ah, you're just trying to be a dick. Got it. Carry on.
liliththepale
Banned
Some transgender people identify as trans men/women and you're pigeonholing them to say otherwise.
What? It's pretty simple, don't say "transgendered", it makes you look like a moron to anyone even remotely educated in gender discussion and/or basic grammar...
| Praxis |
Banned
Okay, thanks.
I always considered it the worst of the worst.
Wouldn't that get confusing in the context of this thread though? Obviously I wouldn't use that term out and about, and would use him or her etc. I really don't want to offend anybody, and didn't mean to and am admittedly unfamiliar with the correct terms, but as it was in the thread title I assumed it was okay, but I am aware of the problems with assumptions.
Simply Sarah
Member
For the record, the two uses I've seen in this thread were myself and another trans woman using it extremely ironically to refer to how we feel this thread's direction is going. Admittedly we should probably use a bit more discretion in that usage of it, since even that is confusing to people and can give the wrong idea.
ShooterMcGavin
Member
So what does the "T" stand for in the LGBT movement?
liliththepale
Banned
To be fair, most every other trans- is a verb. You transfer, transition, translate, transport, transmogrify. You don't transgender, but it's easy to see why people would think that's the proper grammatical form.
To add on a bit, people hear transgender and they think going from one gender to the other. That's not what it means. It means having a different gender than your sex. A transsexual is one who goes from one sex to the other, as many transgender individuals elect. It's confusing and not unforgivable when people get it wrong.
This is an old post and I tried to follow to see if this conversation continued while I was asleep so forgive me if I already but I couldn't find the posts haha.
1. People's gender is hardly the only question here. Even if people are bisexual they would still prefer one type of genitalia over the other. For as long as something like pre-op would be a thing and there is still a slight difference (especially in the case of FtM) people would still want to know and should know prior, otherwise it would feel rude of them to be shocked or disappointed.
3. Yeah pretty much. I don't like that somehow this sort of bigotry is being compare to not being sexually attracted because someone is trans. It has nothing to do with respecting them considering them the gender they identify with etc. I also can't imagine anyone has any right to ever question that someone is outside of romantically dating someone.
Transgender? What? Does that have to.. what?
You didn't need to follow up your dick remark with another dick remark. I told you I got it.
Union Carbine
Member
If you say so.
Clearly you haven't.
User 73706
Banned
If you have to dig so far back as to cite Plutarch when justifying nominations regarding modern-day gender politics, I think you're trying a little too hard to stay ignorant. The ship is also an inanimate object and does not prefer to be called a beachwood as opposed to being called by its original build of sandalwood, etc.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Not really? You're making quite an assumption here. This feels like an 'African American' vs 'Black' discussion.
QuickSilverD
Member
when it comes to sexual preferences, I say people can be racist, sexist, homophobic or whatever, what you like is what you like.
except it is, unless you want to say that there is no difference between trans and cis-women
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