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[Griss]

Well, that sounds preconceived to me. I think you're also misunderstanding me. When I said that, I'm talking about a woman who just happened to be walking by on the street. You're not expecting to have sex with her or anything; the question is simply, "Would you find her attractive?" and it seems like the answer is, "For the time being, yes."

But since you've already jumped in bed with the hypothetical person, I have another question. When you say that arousal for you requires the idea of a natural set of genitals, do you mean that if a trans woman's genitalia was indistinguishable to your eye, and you were unaware of its, er, provenance, that you would find her attractive? And that you would lose your attraction to her if you found that her genitalia was not what she was born with?

This still sounds like textbook prejudice to me. I think it's somewhat akin to thinking that gay people kissing is gross. Your grossed out response might seem completely natural to you, but it is still a learned response. Or for a perhaps less fraught example, it is akin to a fear of some creepy-crawly animal, one that you don't have as an infant or a toddler but acquire later as you grow up. If you could look at a woman without knowing whether she is cis or trans and find her attractive, and then only lose your attraction upon being told that she was trans (as opposed to you being able to tell because she didn't meet your standards of verisimilitude), I'd call that prejudicial.

I should say that as a gay man the question is somewhat different for me. Presumably the ability to reconstruct a penis has improved since last I saw images five or so years ago, but I'd have to confess that I do understand the idea that genitalia not looking "right" would be a misgiving in a long-term relationship, because what I saw wasn't convincing. I actually found images of trans men who hadn't had that surgery done to be more attractive, oddly enough. In any case, it's much easier to go your direction than mine, so to speak. And I know for certain that if trans men were as blessed as trans women can be in this particular respect, it wouldn't be a question for me.​

Yes, if I couldn't tell the difference in genitals, I'd be attracted to that person, though I find such a scenario tough to imagine. Once having learned of their provenance, it's hard to say how I'd react at that point, but I'd probably be unhappy. You're aware that 'ideas' play a part in sexual attraction, right? As I said, I'd find it tough to deal with the knowledge that the pelvis I'm fucking is biologically male, that there's no uterus, that this isn't a natural situation. As I said earlier, I would not date a cis woman with fake breasts because the unnatural nature of it is far too much of a turn-off to me, and I am 100% strict / serious about that so there's a consistency there.

So it seems to me that what you are doing here is denying my sexuality and how I experience it; there's no other way to describe it. I'm telling you what turns me on and off, and you're telling me that it's learned or prejudicial with no evidence that that's the case. What if I told you that your homosexuality is prejudicial to women? It's absurd, no? Is not dating women taller than me prejudicial to tall women? Look, if I could find the idea of having sex with a trans women appealing, I would love to. But I don't. If I could find other men attractive, I'd be out there trying to bang whoever'd have me. (And probably failing miserably.) But I can't, so I don't.

It's completely different to thinking gay people is gross because what we think is 'gross' can change with education, and certainly has with me on many issues. What gives us a boner tends not to change, and certainly never has with me.​

 

[DJ Crimson]

Quick and honest:

Nope. I wouldnt be attracted to a transgendered woman or man.
I would also love to have my own children, though thats not really a big factor.

It doesnt mean I dont see those as a woman, but I really could never be attracted to one. Would turn me off.

I'm sure the first thing you think of when you see a attractive woman is her being pregnant with your child. What a bunch of bull.

 

[User 73706]

Yeah so, don't search for trans vagina on google.

I am probably more turned off the idea than ever seeing them surgery pics. Felt my stomach turn.

If anything, the argument that a man can even find it hard to have sex after seeing his wife give birth is a nice part of it.

I am totally not convinced that if I went down on even half the of trans-pussys out there I wouldn't notice. It better to just, I dunno, let me know beforehand?

But honestly this is super hypothetical since I'm engaged anyway. It's bigotry to claim other people couldn't find them sexually attractive or that you couldn't love a trans woman if you are straight, but to say you'd rather not date them does not mean you don't regard them as women.

If you google search "transgender vagina," your mind is going to associate the ones you see as being transgender vaginas. That's pretty open-and-shut. If you happen to form a relationship with a woman and engage in sexual acts multiple times all without ever knowing she was a MTF transgender individual, I really doubt it'd be as obvious. There's a big difference between seeing a bunch of pictures pre-labeled and actually meeting someone for the first time in person. All of the "I'm an expert on vaginas and I have loaaaaads of experience sexing them right in their vaginas because I like vaginas but only real purebred original full-blooded lady vagina vaginas, there's no waaaay I'd not notice!" posts in here are outright ridiculous.

 

[wildfire]

Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, I'm attracted to the concept of female biology. I also don't agree that a constructed vagina would be 'invisible' compared to a real one. I think you'd know immediately.

I'm in tears. I can't stop laughing.

Griss is being clinical in talking about this but to put this in different terms some guys love the idea of getting women pregnant. Some women love it it too. Some of these people will go as far as to envision in the insemination process.

I have seen enough pornographic art to know this is distinct viewpoint people have among all the other fixations we have for the human body.

 

[RageWaffles]

Son, I would bet you can't even pick out the X from a spread. If, for example, you would be the type to divorce your wife if she loses her reproductive organs from cancer or something, I'll buy the argument. If not, admit your bigotry for what it is.

fwiw, this is basically Catholic church's view. No sex (ejaculation, specifically) unless there's a chance of pregnancy. And some think that infertile people should never marry (or have sex) because they can never have kids and the point of marriage is making a family.

So, it's definitely a viewpoint that exists...

 

[Korten]

Quick and honest:

Nope. I wouldnt be attracted to a transgendered woman or man.
I would also love to have my own children, though thats not really a big factor.

It doesnt mean I dont see those as a woman, but I really could never be attracted to one. Would turn me off.

Dude... There's no point. This entire thread has seemingly become you either change and say that you will date transgendered woman or men, or apparently your a racist/hitler/w/e.

:/ It's become an ultimatum.

Remember, there is no such thing as preferences, just prejudices.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Griss is being clinical in talking about this but to put this in different terms some guys love the idea of getting women pregnant. Some women love it it too. Some of these people will go as far as to envision in the insemination process.

I have seen enough pornographic art to know this is distinct viewpoint people have among all the other fixations we have for the human body.

Oh don't remind me...yeah, that's a thing. There is a thing as insemination porn.

 

[genjiZERO]

I'm sure the first thing you think of when you see a attractive woman is her being pregnant with your child. What a bunch of bull.

Maybe not consciously. But you are certainly sizing them up as a reproductive partner on a subconscious one.

 

[Izuna]

If you google search "transgender vagina," your mind is going to associate the ones you see as being transgender vaginas. That's pretty open-and-shut. If you happen to form a relationship with a woman and engage in sexual acts multiple times all without ever knowing she was a MTF transgender individual, I really doubt it'd be as obvious. There's a big difference between seeing a bunch of pictures pre-labeled and actually meeting someone for the first time in person. All of the "I'm an expert on vaginas and I have loaaaaads of experience sexing them right in their vaginas because I like vaginas but only real purebred original full-blooded lady vagina vaginas, there's no waaaay I'd not notice!" posts in here are outright ridiculous.

Really not what I said AT ALL.

I found surgery pics that not I suppose I would be reminded off if I found out. Honest I think it's fucked up that one could hide the fact that they're trans. I doubt I would go on multiple sexual dates without once mentioning that I want to be a father, for them to assume I'd be okay with them in no normal way to have a child with them. A cis-girl would say we couldn't be together, and early in the relationship it makes no sense then.

If by some magic the trans-woman didn't know she was a trans-woman, and I couldn't tell the difference (I am asking YOU to find me pictures of convincing trans-pussy, because tbh the blood on google images stopped me from doing so) -- then we would work it out after which. It is a different matter completely if someone knew it was possible I might have a problem and hid it to keep things going. If I fell in love enough to want to feel like I want to marry such a person, it would be pretty shocking finding out after having those feelings I wouldn't allow myself to have because I have reservations on the issue.

... this link you posted has like, zero relevancy

 

[freenudemacusers]

I'm sure the first thing you think of when you see a attractive woman is her being pregnant with your child. What a bunch of bull.

'child bearing hips' is a thing you know

 

[Griss]

It's been reported that even gynecologists often cannot tell a patient is trans if she does not disclose it.

I simply refuse to believe this. Again, people keep saying stuff like this with no evidence or proof, and it has been all day. No pics, no studies, no explanations, just 'trans vaginas are just the same, trust me'. Well sorry, I can't.

So you only want the Platonic ideal of sex? Does that leave a Platonic ideal of a wet spot?

Yes, and... hopefully.

I'm in tears. I can't stop laughing.

See...

Griss is being clinical in talking about this but to put this in different terms some guys love the idea of getting women pregnant. Some women love it it too. Some of these people will go as far as to envision in the insemination process.

I have seen enough pornographic art to know this is distinct viewpoint people have among all the other fixations we have for the human body.

Not only did you get it, that would be a common fetish / fantasy of mine. And other men, judging by the popularity of that kind of porn. Why do you think cross-section images in hentai are so popular? Exact same shit.

 

[QuickSilverD]

This is exactly what it's like.

It's racist is say you'd never, ever date a black woman because you find them unattractive. It's transphobic to say that you'd never, ever date a transwoman because you find them unattractive.

If you're attracted to cis women because you can only tolerate having sexual thoughts about someone with a pussy, then you're probably more attracted to vulvas than women themselves.

please re-read your post "it is racist to find black women unattractive" such bollocks. preference =! prejudice. next you'll be telling me it is homophobic for me (as a straight man) to not date other men

That's not at all what anyone is saying.

Edit: oh, okay. I see that you're just trolling now.

except it kinda is what you're saying

 

[Mumei]

Does Whipping Girl go into intimate relationships, cause that seems to be the real hang up?

It comes up. I'll say this for it: It made me aware of ways that my thinking was cissexist that explained (to me, anyway) why I sometimes felt ambivalent in these topics. It made explicit some of the unspoken - even to myself - assumptions that I was making. I don't really feel comfortable being more specific because it's the sort of thing where I didn't realize I was doing it until it was pointed out, and ... ugh. Anyway!

So, if you're willing to approach it with an open-mind, I think you'll learn something, both about trans people and possibly about yourself (and various other things besides). I should also say that you should keep an open-mind about specific claims. I often found myself going through this pattern:

1.) Julia makes a claim.
2.) I am skeptical about this claim.
3.) Julia makes her argument.
4.) I am skeptical about her argument.
5.) Julia continues making her argument, and presents facts and her analysis of these facts
6.) Oh, she was right.

So, if you're the sort of person who is apt to dismiss an argument quickly, at least hold your fire until the argument plays out.

 

[FartOfWar]

If you google search "transgender vagina," your mind is going to associate the ones you see as being transgender vaginas. That's pretty open-and-shut. If you happen to form a relationship with a woman and engage in sexual acts multiple times all without ever knowing she was a MTF transgender individual, I really doubt it'd be as obvious. There's a big difference between seeing a bunch of pictures pre-labeled and actually meeting someone for the first time in person. All of the "I'm an expert on vaginas and I have loaaaaads of experience sexing them right in their vaginas because I like vaginas but only real purebred original full-blooded lady vagina vaginas, there's no waaaay I'd not notice!" posts in here are outright ridiculous.

Not to turn this into something petty, but... but I'm willing to put money where my mouth is if you assemble a series of natural and artificial vagina pics and ask me to identify which are which.

 

[lexi]

I simply refuse to believe this. Again, people keep saying stuff like this with no evidence or proof, and it has been all day. No pics, no studies, no explanations, just 'trans vaginas are just the same, trust me'. Well sorry, I can't.

They're not the same, but these days, they're virtually indistinguishable. This isn't a controversial opinion, it's fact.

FWIW I say this as someone just shy of 2 months post op, but what the fuck do I know right? I'm sure you and all the other straigther-than-thou men simply know better.

 

[Lesath]

Come on, don't do that. Don't try to belittle someone you're having a conversation with in that way. It does nothing for the discourse in this thread and only serves to raise tensions.

I apologize for making individuals on GAF feel belittled.

 

[Izuna]

Not to turn this into something petty, but... but I'm willing to put money where my mouth is if you assemble a series of natural and artificial vagina pics and ask me to identify which are which.

This reminds me of the pussy vs. raw meat test a decade back haha. I would take this.

 

[THRILLH0]

This is exactly what it's like.

It's racist is say you'd never, ever date a black woman because you find them unattractive. It's transphobic to say that you'd never, ever date a transwoman because you find them unattractive.

If you're attracted to cis women because you can only tolerate having sexual thoughts about someone with a pussy, then you're probably more attracted to vulvas than women themselves.

What a load of bullshit.

So if I'm a heterosexual man who wouldn't date someone like the dude from Tokyo Hotel then I'm not really attracted to women?

 

[User 73706]

This isn't put well.

You aren't observing if 1, 2, 3 means the person is racist, but looking at what they said and calling the sentence racist.

Not all black girls have frizzy hair.

I also, honest to god, HATE that black girls are always used as the example by those who claim they even not have a preference themselves.

Couple things.

- I use the black women example because it's by far one of the most common ones with negative connotations. "I'm only into Asian women" is a pretty common one, but obviously glorifies Asian women. "I'm just not attracted to black women" is by and large the most common negative one I hear, especially on GAF.

- I specifically pointed out that suggesting all black women do have frizzy hair is stereotyping. No, this is not an "oh okay, so we're in agreement then" moment. You did not read the anecdote correctly. Not all black girls have frizzy hair, you're right. Not liking black women because their hair is frizzy is purely an example and not something that should be taken 100% objectively or subjectively as the exact point I'm making. The point is that the example in question isn't just expressing a dislike of frizzy hair - it's expressing a dislike of black women with frizzy hair.

- "They're not racist, what they said is racist" makes zero sense. No matter how much celebs and the like try and pull that "people slip up sometimes" nonsense, racism is a spectrum, not a label. You don't just happen to accidentally racism one day and then you're one of those dudes donating to Darren Wilson's Gofundme page. It has degrees, and not everyone is the same type of racist or even the same level of racist. People engage in subtle instances of racism all the time from stereotyping to more institutionalized problem such as our culture shaping the futures of youth based on nationality - e.g. suggesting the only way to make it in life as a black man is by becoming an entertainment artist or basketball player. People can change, sure. But I need you to specifically know that my intent was not to criticize the sentence in a self-contained fashion. My denomination is directed at the hypothetical individual making the statement. I am not picking apart their one quip in this particular instance and leaving it at that, because correcting a single phrasing in that fashion does not immediately absolve that person. They need to learn what they're doing is racially-charged, which is not a good thing. I am specifically establishing that there are things that they need to do in order to improve their outlook and perception on race relations. Self-aware adults living in first-world countries have a myriad of resources available to do so. "The culture" alone is never going to keep someone perpetually locked into an ignorant viewpoint unless it's an Orwellian government.

Really not what I said AT ALL.

I found surgery pics that not I suppose I would be reminded off if I found out. Honest I think it's fucked up that one could hide the fact that they're trans. I doubt I would go on multiple sexual dates without once mentioning that I want to be a father, for them to assume I'd be okay with them in no normal way to have a child with them. A cis-girl would say we couldn't be together, and early in the relationship it makes no sense then.

If by some magic the trans-woman didn't know she was a trans-woman, and I couldn't tell the difference (I am asking YOU to find me pictures of convincing trans-pussy, because tbh the blood on google images stopped me from doing so) -- then we would work it out after which. It is a different matter completely if someone knew it was possible I might have a problem and hid it to keep things going. If I fell in love enough to want to feel like I want to marry such a person, it would be pretty shocking finding out after having those feelings I wouldn't allow myself to have because I have reservations on the issue.

... this link you posted has like, zero relevancy

Your problem is staring you right in the face. If you want to be faced with the predicament you'll be engaged with in real life, quit googling "trans pussy" looking for convincing examples, because you'll find none. You sought out a specific topic and your mind is going to associate the search results accordingly. If you want a better method, google "pussy" - no labels, no additional disclaimers or denominations - and don't expand the links to reveal where these pictures are coming from or to give yourself context. Look through a handful of pages. Then tell me which ones out of those belong to transgender individuals.

 

[Sai-kun]

saying you'd never date someone of x race isnt the most racist thing ever but it's definitely one of those thoughts and opinions y'all should probably keep to yourselves because its not cute

 

[DJ Crimson]

'child bearing hips' is a thing you know

That's mostly a compliment for body shape. Not to mention having child bearing hips doesn't guarantee anything for a healthy birth. So you know...

 

[freenudemacusers]

That's mostly a compliment for body shape. Not to mention having child bearing hips doesn't guarantee anything for a healthy birth. So you know...

??? it's a compliment for someone's body shape based on the perception of one's ability to procreate. 80% of the characters in that phrase are to do with procreating. not sure how you could suggest anything else.

 

[Jenov]

That's mostly a compliment for body shape. Not to mention having child bearing hips doesn't guarantee anything for a healthy birth. So you know...

Pregnancy and insemination porn is actually a thing though. So yes, people have a fetish with getting pregnant, they're attracted to it.

 

[THRILLH0]

I'm sure the first thing you think of when you see a attractive woman is her being pregnant with your child. What a bunch of bull.

You do understand that there is a demonstrable evolutionary imperative at play here right?

Generally speaking people are most definitely attracted to those with whom they can create children.

 

[RageWaffles]

Yes, if I couldn't tell the difference in genitals, I'd be attracted to that person, though I find such a scenario tough to imagine. Once having learned of their provenance, it's hard to say how I'd react at that point, but I'd probably be unhappy. You're aware that 'ideas' play a part in sexual attraction, right? As I said, I'd find it tough to deal with the knowledge that the pelvis I'm fucking is biologically male, that there's no uterus, that this isn't a natural situation. As I said earlier, I would not date a cis woman with fake breasts because the unnatural nature of it is far too much of a turn-off to me, and I am 100% strict / serious about that so there's a consistency there.

So it seems to me that what you are doing here is denying my sexuality and how I experience it; there's no other way to describe it. I'm telling you what turns me on and off, and you're telling me that it's learned or prejudicial with no evidence that that's the case. What if I told you that your homosexuality is prejudicial to women? It's absurd, no? Is not dating women taller than me prejudicial to tall women? Look, if I could find the idea of having sex with a trans women appealing, I would love to. But I don't. If I could find other men attractive, I'd be out there trying to bang whoever'd have me. (And probably failing miserably.) But I can't, so I don't.

It's completely different to thinking gay people is gross because what we think is 'gross' can change with education, and certainly has with me on many issues. What gives us a boner tends not to change, and certainly never has with me.

I found this genuinely fascinating. I have a hard time understanding how and that people have such extremely strong preferences regarding gender.

I wonder if the prevalence of people having an absolute preference regarding their partner's gender is because until fairly recently homosexuality and being trans were both extremely taboo, so of course men were only into women and women only into men because that's just how it was. I wonder if bi/omni/pansexuality will become more common in the future.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

(I am asking YOU to find me pictures of convincing trans-pussy, because tbh the blood on google images stopped me from doing so)

I'm not sure if I can help much, because I'm still looking around myself and I'm on mobile, but there's Dr. Suporn's work. Many women I met in the trans community approve of his procedure, saying his work is the closest thing to a natural vagina at the moment in terms of function, feeling, and look.

 

[Griss]

They're not the same, but these days, they're virtually indistinguishable. This isn't a controversial opinion, it's fact.

FWIW I say this as someone just shy of 2 months post op, but what the fuck do I know right? I'm sure you and all the other straigther-than-thou men simply know better.

Look, this is obviously a heated topic and I've been pretty blunt from the start (but always 100% honest, I promise), so let me just take a time-out here for a more human moment.

Congrats on your surgery, I hope it goes well for you and is everything you wanted. I'm glad you were able to get it, and I hope it hasn't bankrupted you or anything. My own surgery cost a ton (20k+ when I had nothing) and was not covered. I know the euphoric ego high surgery can give you - I'd never experienced anything like it - and I hope it lasts a long, long time. For me it lasted almost a year, and it was the single best year of my life. Perhaps for you it'll last longer, and you're entering the best years of your life. That would be cool. I hope you have a great sex life, fall in love and get married, if that's your bag. Whatever obstacles happen in your life or career I hope you overcome them, I really do.

Obviously you know more about this subject than I do, and in the circumstances I think it would be rude and obscene in the extreme to even carry on any argument. So I've no wish to. I'm just gonna say congrats and good luck, and that goes to all other transpeople in here as well. If I've upset any of you, I apologise. With that I'm out guys. My fat ass needs to hit the gym.

 

[DJ Crimson]

Pregnancy and insemination porn is actually a thing though. So yes, people have a fetish with getting pregnant, they're attracted to it.

I just find it odd these type of people come out the woodwork whenever it comes topics like this. You never see this posted elsewhere on NeoGAF when talking about attraction.

 

[Mumei]

Yes, if I couldn't tell the difference in genitals, I'd be attracted to that person, though I find such a scenario tough to imagine. Once having learned of their provenance, it's hard to say how I'd react at that point, but I'd probably be unhappy. You're aware that 'ideas' play a part in sexual attraction, right? As I said, I'd find it tough to deal with the knowledge that the pelvis I'm fucking is biologically male, that there's no uterus, that this isn't a natural situation. As I said earlier, I would not date a cis woman with fake breasts because the unnatural nature of it is far too much of a turn-off to me, and I am 100% strict / serious about that so there's a consistency there.

So it seems to me that what you are doing here is denying my sexuality and how I experience it; there's no other way to describe it. I'm telling you what turns me on and off, and you're telling me that it's learned or prejudicial with no evidence that that's the case. What if I told you that your homosexuality is prejudicial to women? It's absurd, no? Is not dating women taller than me prejudicial to tall women? Look, if I could find the idea of having sex with a trans women appealing, I would love to. But I don't. If I could find other men attractive, I'd be out there trying to bang whoever'd have me. (And probably failing miserably.) But I can't, so I don't.

It's completely different to thinking gay people is gross because what we think is 'gross' can change with education, and certainly has with me on many issues. What gives us a boner tends not to change, and certainly never has with me.

Hm. Well, I'm not trying to do that. If you said to me, "Your homosexuality is prejudicial to women," in the sense that we're using the word "prejudicial", I'd say that's not an apt comparison. But you instead said to me, "If you find black men less attractive than white men, that is prejudicial to black men," and then further argued, "You don't find black men less attractive 'Just because,' but because of learned attitudes about what constitutes beauty in this culture," well, I'd say you're right. I'm not saying that your sexuality doesn't work the way you say it does; I'm saying that I think what makes your sexuality work the way you say it does is learned attitudes. I think these attitudes can be unlearned; it's not like I was always open to the idea of finding a trans person sexually attractive, after all.

 

[shuri]

They're not the same, but these days, they're virtually indistinguishable. This isn't a controversial opinion, it's fact.

FWIW I say this as someone just shy of 2 months post op, but what the fuck do I know right? I'm sure you and all the other straigther-than-thou men simply know better.

Sorry but I think this gaffer is looking for a more neutral source, Lexi.

Are there any studies or peer reviewed papers on this available? I tried searching on GIS sbout this and I could not find many pics. Maybe we don't need pics but at least some scientific papers. We need sources and receipts, people! I'm super curious about this myself and I am quite surprised by those claims.

I'm really wondering about the lubrification situation and .. Well the physical 'experience' like all the gripping and various textures and so on. Can those 'features' get .. 'Replicated' by transgendered vaginas (there has to be a better term for this..)?

 

[ComfyCouch]

Would you rather I say racially prejudiced? Or are you content ignoring the fact that I said "on some level" immediately after.

Spoiler

I can't hold all these semantics

Spoiler

Spoiler

I can't hold all your cuntiness.

 

[Izuna]

Couple things.

- I use the black women example because it's by far one of the most common ones with negative connotations. "I'm only into Asian women" is a pretty common one, but obviously glorifies Asian women. "I'm just not attracted to black women" is by and large the most common negative one I hear, especially on GAF.

- I specifically pointed out that suggesting all black women do have frizzy hair is stereotyping. No, this is not an "oh okay, so we're in agreement then" moment. You did not read the anecdote correctly. Not all black girls have frizzy hair, you're right. Not liking black women because their hair is frizzy is purely an example and not something that should be taken 100% objectively or subjectively as the exact point I'm making. The point is that the example in question isn't just expressing a dislike of frizzy hair - it's expressing a dislike of black women with frizzy hair.

- "They're not racist, what they said is racist" makes zero sense. No matter how much celebs and the like try and pull that "people slip up sometimes" nonsense, racism is a spectrum, not a label. You don't just happen to accidentally racism one day and then you're one of those dudes donating to Darren Wilson's Gofundme page. It has degrees, and not everyone is the same type of racist or even the same level of racist. People engage in subtle instances of racism all the time from stereotyping to more institutionalized problem such as our culture shaping the futures of youth based on nationality - e.g. suggesting the only way to make it in life as a black man is by becoming an entertainment artist or basketball player. People can change, sure. But I need you to specifically know that my intent was not to criticize the sentence in a self-contained fashion. My denomination is directed at the hypothetical individual making the statement. I am not picking apart their one quip in this particular instance and leaving it at that, because correcting a single phrasing in that fashion does not immediately absolve that person. They need to learn what they're doing is racially-charged, which is not a good thing. I am specifically establishing that there are things that they need to do in order to improve their outlook and perception on race relations. Self-aware adults living in first-world countries have a myriad of resources available to do so. "The culture" alone is never going to keep someone perpetually locked into an ignorant viewpoint unless it's an Orwellian government.

It is the most commonly used for absolutely no reason. If it is your opinion then sure, but reinforcing that it is the only opinion useful for the sake of argument, such that everyone uses it whether they are attracted to black women or not, is infuriating to be even. Try to limit the possibly of a black woman reading this thread thinking "man what IS wrong with me and people that look like me anyway?"

Okay so, being ignorant isn't the same as being racist. Why? Because read my point below...

- Racism is not a spectrum in the ears of the person being called a racist. Nor is it for the third-party. Racist is a clear-cut label and it is always used as such. Even when sexuality is a label, we don't ask how gay, we just equate it to (that man) likes men.

Spoiler

This will change when we don't use terms like homosexual or heterosexual, and instead use something like dudesexual so men and women who have the same sexual preference can identify with the same label. But it would have to be a smart term though because I can like tomboys but not men.

If you consider any part of ignorance or lack of knowledge to on a spectrum of racism, then I really think for the most part we all make assumptions and would fall somewhere right? That would make us all racist, or at least a ton of us, and then we the word doesn't mean much anymore. I thought Japanese women couldn't be born with ginger hair, but thanks to the internet I know that this can happen. What you are saying is that is makes me a racist, though not that kind of racist, for when I believed differently.

We always are ignorant to a lot of things. Ignorance begets racism, the serious kind of hate and intolerance that hurts or takes advantage of people for being a little different. Let's reserve the word for that please.

I am not trying to say diet-racism (heh) shouldn't be called racist, but at the very least if you want to say something is a little bit racist, call it a little bit racist or technically racist. Or fuck, call me sexist for expecting girls to go to the ladies bathroom.

Your problem is staring you right in the face. If you want to be faced with the predicament you'll be engaged with in real life, quit googling "trans pussy" looking for convincing examples, because you'll find none. You sought out a specific topic and your mind is going to associate the search results accordingly. If you want a better method, google "pussy" - no labels, no additional disclaimers or denominations - and don't expand the links to reveal where these pictures are coming from or to give yourself context. Look through a handful of pages. Then tell me which ones out of those belong to transgender individuals.

Bullshit. You are telling me that the pictures I saw that I didn't find convincing were because I was looking for trans-pussy. You are assuming I am stupid enough to not see something labels trans-pussy and see whether or not I think it looks nice. If I googled pussy, I would see a bunch and never be able to know if it were trans or not. How about you do that for me test your theory that they are indistinguishable ? We could even do a double blind test with someone else here via PM, though it isn't necessary because this is through the internet.

I'm not sure if I can help much, because I'm still looking around myself and I'm on mobile, but there's Dr. Suporn's work. Many women I met in the trans community approve of his procedure, saying his work is the closest thing to a natural vagina at the moment in terms of function, feeling, and look.

Hmm I'll take a look.

 

[23qwerty]

I can't hold all your cuntiness.

People getting called out for their racism never ceases to bring out the salt

 

[ComfyCouch]

People getting called out for their racism never ceases to bring out the salt

Or the cunts.

 

[RageWaffles]

They're not the same, but these days, they're virtually indistinguishable. This isn't a controversial opinion, it's fact.

FWIW I say this as someone just shy of 2 months post op, but what the fuck do I know right? I'm sure you and all the other straigther-than-thou men simply know better.

Welcome to the world of men knowing more about your body than you!

 

[Griss]

Hm. Well, I'm not trying to do that. If you said to me, "Your homosexuality is prejudicial to women," in the sense that we're using the word "prejudicial", I'd say that's not an apt comparison. But you instead said to me, "If you find black men less attractive than white men, that is prejudicial to black men," and then further argued, "You don't find black men less attractive 'Just because,' but because of learned attitudes about what constitutes beauty in this culture," well, I'd say you're right. I'm not saying that your sexuality doesn't work the way you say it does; I'm saying that I think what makes your sexuality work the way you say it does is learned attitudes. I think these attitudes can be unlearned; it's not like I was always open to the idea of finding a trans person sexually attractive, after all.

I appreciate your point, and I do see where your coming from. Thanks for the reply, but as I just posted I'm going to back out now.

There was a lot of anger later on in this thread but I'll say this - 10 years ago I knew nothing about transpeople at all and would have been quite ignorant about the issue when raise; but now I'm pro trans rights wherever I can be and have even inserted trans rights into employment contracts etc. where I can - all because of the education of threads like this. So while this stuff may be an upsetting carosel going round and round for trans people, you are getting through to a lot of people in the end, I really believe that, even if it's not as much as you'd like.

 

[23qwerty]

Or the cunts.

I mean if you want to refer to yourself as such, go ahead I guess?

 

[User 73706]

Bullshit. You are telling me that the pictures I saw that I didn't find convincing were because I was looking for trans-pussy. You are assuming I am stupid enough to not see something labels trans-pussy and see whether or not I think it looks nice. If I googled pussy, I would see a bunch and never be able to know if it were trans or not. How about you do that for me test your theory that they are indistinguishable ? We could even do a double blind test with someone else here via PM, though it isn't necessary because this is through the internet.

That's been my point this entire time. If you can't differentiate between transgender genitalia and cisgender genitalia when they're unlabeled, you're making a clear distinction to express a lack of attraction towards genitalia, regardless of mechanical integrity, purely based on the transgender label. That doesn't strike you as ignorant?

 

[Izuna]

People getting called out for their racism never ceases to bring out the salt

You're not going to get much support here. Even if, if someone is racist and that's a terrible, terrible thing, your posts are boring for simply being "you're racist! you're racist!" it adds nothing, you won't even address why. If you're so disgusting just disregard what the person says, you already mentioned it.

That's been my point this entire time. If you can't differentiate between transgender genitalia and cisgender genitalia when they're unlabeled, you're making a clear distinction to express a lack of attraction towards genitalia, regardless of mechanical integrity, purely based on the transgender label. That doesn't strike you as ignorant?

I don't understand. The dialogue here is that I am not convinced they DO look the same and wouldn't want to date someone without the knowledge that they could be. I'd get into bed and have the possibly of being massively turned off or weirded out. Unless I am now convinced that I really wouldn't be able to tell, why would me and the girl want to put ourselves in that situation?

Also, I can't even FIND any unlabelled so how would you or I know how good I am at telling the difference. You keeping saying they look the same but there is no examples of this.

Suspecting that they couldn't look the same or react the same is only being refuted by surgery procedures and here-say. I wouldn't get any personal experience here. The most I could get before I allow myself is images, that I suppose you HAVE seen right?

I mean, have you seen trans-pussy that looks normal, have you shagged one? We are both having opinions on what we cannot possibly know and it seems I am the only one trying to figure it out.

 

[ComfyCouch]

I mean if you want to refer to yourself as such, go ahead I guess?

It's what a cunt looks for right, to get people banned?

Well now you can take your cunt ass somewhere else.

 

[Ahasverus]

I think hormonal attraction plays a part doesn't it? You might still get repelled by same sex pheromones if you're heterosexual, no matter how close to biological woman transgendered women are. As a gay man, I think I might get involved with a trans gay man (?) if he's good enough, but I doubt it because of superficial attraction, I definitively feel different around women and men, it would be quite the talk too haha.

 

[User 73706]

I think hormonal attraction plays a part doesn't it? You might still get repelled by same sex pheromones if you're heterosexual, no matter how close to biological woman transgendered women are. As a gay man, I think I might get involved with a trans man if he's good enough, but I doubt it, would be quite the talk too haha.

It very well could for some people, but the ones advocating "I'm fine with them, I just don't want my dick in them" have seldom used that as a defense.

 

[23qwerty]

You're not going to get much support here. Even if, if someone is racist and that's a terrible, terrible thing, your posts are boring for simply being "you're racist! you're racist!" it adds nothing, you won't even address why. If you're so disgusting just disregard what the person says, you already mentioned it.

I've seen plenty of people share my sentiment in this thread actually, not to mention that it's been less than half of my content in the thread. But shape the argument to whatever you want it to be I guess...
And the why? I don't really think much more needs to be said than what I already said here
It's pretty simple.

 

[freenudemacusers]

You do understand that there is a demonstrable evolutionary imperative at play here right?

Generally speaking people are most definitely attracted to those with whom they can create children.

yeah, not a new concept at all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurines

sounds like some sexist bullshit to me

fwiw i think you had great hips :-*

 

[notworksafe]

'child bearing hips' is a thing you know

sounds like some sexist bullshit to me

 

[t-storm]

I mean if you want to refer to yourself as such, go ahead I guess?

Lonely in life? Can't imagine you have people willing and wanting to be around/close to you with such isolationist and extreme perceptions and outlooks.

 

[23qwerty]

Lonely in life? Can't imagine you have people willing and wanting to be around/close to you with such isolationist and extreme perceptions and outlooks.

What an odd claim.

Is suggesting that there are racial prejudices involved in someone not wanting to date someone because of the colour of their skin really that extreme?

 

[notworksafe]

fwiw i think you had great hips :-*

i prefer to call them "nacho bearing hips"

 

[stufte]

sounds like some sexist bullshit to me

Is sexist now going to be thrown around in ways that don't make any sense? Is this a thing now?

 

[Mumei]

What an odd claim.

Is suggesting that there are racial prejudices involved in someone not wanting to date someone because of the colour of their skin really that extreme?

Extreme? Maybe. Wrong? No.