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[DVPredator85]

The difference being that collectibles are optional and usually fill in backstory or enrich the environment/lore. Also they are completely optional. Wave based encounters force the completion of enemy vanquished before allowing player progress. They are not the same, if you have no interest in the environment or story then yeah, ignore everything and complete the game in 5 and a half hours. But then why buy it in the first place?

True, ultimately I think it will depend on each players style of play. Some people will want to explore, while others just want to get through it guns blazing.

 

[Z3M0G]

The Last of Us is a totally different sort of game. You can't judge any game just by watching a let's play. But there are some games you can judge this way.

This is getting rediculous...

What if the game had the worst controls ever, but the person you were watching mastered how to play with those terrible controls. You would have no idea just watching them play.

This conversation SHOULDNT EVEN BE HAPPENING.

 

[FeiRR]

I think we've reached a new level of the forum metagame here. I've just imagined a travellers' forum where some individuals come to vocalize their opinion that Street View is as good an experience as going around the world but actually better because it's cheaper, safer and you won't catch a cold. I think even the masters of spin at Digital Foundry could take a few lessons from GAF. Twenty more years of the Internet and trolls will be so skilled they'll kill people with a smile.

I admit I can't wait to see what's next.

 

[Freshmaker]

What visceral edge? There are literally chapters that are entirely cutscenes. If you can't determine the quality of The Order by viewing it then you can't do it with a movie either.

I was being snarky.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You don't read your own quotes?

It's written in a way that could be taken either way, but it's not wrong.

Add a "just" before the "any" and it becomes clearer.

 

[Dragun619]

Of course we have. If a game places a heavy emphasis on cinematic presentation and doesn't much emphasize gameplay then it's fair to treat it like a cinematic experience.
.

I don't think that's fair at all. It's still a game. If the devs really wanted to make a movie then they would have made a movie instead of a game.

If you're gonna review it, then at least give the game the attention it requires by playing the game. Otherwise, don't bother at all.

 

[-MD-]

You don't read your own quotes?

His post makes sense to me.

Put "all" in place of "any", I believe that's what he meant.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

You don't read your own quotes?

Do you speak English?

"You can't judge [any game]" has two plausible meanings: "you can't judge [a game]" or "you can't judge [all games]." In spoken English this would be disambiguated by stress: "you can't judge any game" makes it clear that the second meaning is the correct one. In written English it's up to the reader to use their own independent reasoning to figure out which meaning is intended.

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

Vanquish wasn't interspersed with cutscenes that interrupt the flow of combat.

Good thing RAD is making cutscenes seemless

 

[jetjevons]

To be clear I do not for a split second consider someone watching a steam of another human playing a game to even remotely eqivocate to the actual experience of that person playing said game, even if by some miracle the audio/visual representation of the game was a literally perfect 1:1 recreation.

We're entering crazy town here.

 

[The Shogun]

Yes. This isn't Vanquish or Metal Gear Solid. No one is expecting interesting gameplay from this game. Interesting gameplay is not the point of a game like this.

.............

What is the point of a game with little or no interesting gameplay. That doesn't even make sense to me. I mean gameplay itself is the entire purpose. Otherwise why not watch a film?

Not that I'm saying The Order has poor gameplay but not caring if it even has "interesting gameplay" is somewhat strange. Though I suppose given the game is very short it may be worth the experience just for graphics / presentation to some.

 

[Alebrije]

I am waithing for the secuel :

The Yuotuber 2015.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Speak for yourself. I wouldn't touch Uncharted 2 or The Last of Us if they weren't designed as well as they are at a core level, from mechanics to encounter design to pacing.

Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us don't even belong in the same conversation when it comes to mechanics, encounter design, and pacing.

.............

What is the point of a game with little or no interesting gameplay. That doesn't even make sense to me. I mean gameplay itself is the entire purpose. Otherwise why not watch a film?

Not that I'm saying The Order has poor gameplay but not caring if it even has "interesting gameplay" is somewhat strange. Though I suppose given the game is very short it may be worth the experience just for graphics / presentation to some.

I mean, it's a perfectly valid stance to find games that distinguish themselves entirely by graphics and presentation and not at all by interesting gameplay to be boring or bad or whatever. It's not a stance held by everyone, though, and there's clearly room in the market for that kind of game. That's the kind of game The Order is trying to be.

I had the game preordered because I was expecting Uncharted 2 with a more interesting setting, and I would have been satisfied with that. But what we seem to be getting is Uncharted 2 with a more interesting setting and slightly over half as much playtime.

 

[Chuck]

LOL

"our comment is no comment"

thanks, ass

 

[SunBroDave]

I don't think that's fair at all. It's still a game. If the devs really wanted to make a movie then they would have made a movie instead of a game.

No. That's not how it works. You don't get to just make a movie because you want to. These are game devs who want to make a movie-like experience, so they made that using what they know how to do, which is make games.

If you're gonna review it, then at least give the game the attention it requires by playing the game. Otherwise, don't bother at all.

Never trying to claim it was an official review, just give my opinion and what that opinion was based on. I thought that would be helpful for those concerned about whether The Order was worth the $60. My opinion is 'no,' just as I'm perfectly alright with someone else's opinion being 'yes, of course!'

 

[meanspartan]

I think many people are saying its useless because it was a random youtuber. If say, a reputable media outlet such as IGN, Gamespot, GB etc were to release their playthough on the internet, all of a sudden people would sit up and take notice.

I guess we'll see how useless this current info is in a few days when the embargo drops.

I know you are just saying what other people think and not necessarily your opinion, but that is preposterous.

I myself have not seen that playthrough, so what I am about to say is subject to that disclaimer. But the people who HAVE seen it claim on here this player wasn't speedrunning or otherwise trying to fly through the game. On the flip side, he also wasn't playing like a completionist and thoroughly exploring every inch of the game. He just played it like most people would, taking his time dilly dallying here and there, screwing up and dying every so often, etc.

And he finished in under 6 hours.

What is there to consider "useless" about that? You can check out the video yourself I guess (I take the people who have seen it at their word) and if there is something others are leaving out that somehow made his playthrough much shorter than most will experience, please let me know what that is.

But outside of that, we apparently have video evidence of someone casually playing through the game in under 6 hours. That isn't some condemnation, it may very be a 10 out of 10 six hours of gameplay. But this weird denial of how long the game is seems to ignore actual video evidence, at least that's how I am understanding it.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I think we've reached a new level of the forum metagame here. I've just imagined a travellers' forum where some individuals come to vocalize their opinion that Street View is as good an experience as going around the world but actually better because it's cheaper, safer and you won't catch a cold.

You seriously think this is a valid comparison don't you...

 

[John Bender]

Haha I mean, it's a shit game. Imo not nearly worth the price.

So you haven't played it, but watched some Youtube stuff?
lmao

 

[Z3M0G]

No. The Last of Us absolutely emphasizes gameplay in a way that Uncharted does not. I don't really classify The Last of Us as a cinematic game, or at least not to the same extent as Uncharted or God of War or what have you.

I'm not trolling: I enjoy cinematic games. I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just saying that you we don't play them for the gameplay. We play them for the spectacle. That's why we call them cinematic games.

Uncharted was more gameplay than spectacle... and the more spectacular parts where during player control. Thats the only reason they were special at all. Uncharted is 95% shooting dudes and traversal. There isnt THAT much story to them...

 

[fantomena]

Every The Order 1886 thread is out of order.

 

[K.Sabot]

Good thing RAD is making cutscenes seemless

It may look seamless to transition from cutscenes to gameplay, but it could be frustrating for the player to suddenly lose control of the game they're playing if they do it a lot (my main gripe with Max Payne 3, almost ruins the game).

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Do you speak English?

"You can't judge [any game]" has two plausible meanings: "you can't judge [a game]" or "you can't judge [all games]." In spoken English this would be disambiguated by stress: "you can't judge any game" makes it clear that the second meaning is the correct one. In written English it's up to the reader to use their own independent reasoning to figure out which meaning is intended.

Guess I misread it, you don't have to be a jerk

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Anyone who would watch an entire walkthrough of a game just before it comes out leads me to believe they had no intention on playing it in the first place and for that reason makes me suspicious of any conclusions they draw from it.

 

[keltickennedy]

Every The Order 1886 thread is out of order.

And this one is closely approaching 1886 posts.

 

[The Shogun]

I mean, it's a perfectly valid stance to find games that distinguish themselves entirely by graphics and presentation and not at all by interesting gameplay to be boring or bad or whatever. It's not a stance held by everyone, though, and there's clearly room in the market for that kind of game. That's the kind of game The Order is trying to be.

I had the game preordered because I was expecting Uncharted 2 with a more interesting setting, and I would have been satisfied with that. But what we seem to be getting is Uncharted 2 with a more interesting setting and slightly over half as much playtime.

Uncharted 2 has "interesting gameplay" though

 

[SunBroDave]

Anyone who would watch an entire walkthrough of a game just before it comes out leads me to believe they had no intention on playing it in the first place and for that reason makes me suspicious of any conclusions they draw from it.

Again, I don't have a PS4, which I know I know that makes my opinion totally invalid, so no, I didn't have any intention of buying it. But that doesn't mean I didn't want to be pleasantly surprised by how good of a narrative experience The Order could have been. I was a huge fan of The Last of Us and would love to see developers place a huge importance on the narrative in their games

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Guess I misread it, you don't have to be a jerk

I mean... you kind of started that tone by more or less accusing him of not reading his own post.

The viscous cycle of putting someone on the defensive, triggering them to respond with even more aggression than the initial attack.

 

[RK9039]

And this one is closely approaching 1886 posts.

I'm going to be 1886.

 

[De_Legend]

Anyone who would watch an entire walkthrough of a game just before it comes out leads me to believe they had no intention on playing it in the first place and for that reason makes me suspicious of any conclusions they draw from it.

Exactly this.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Uncharted 2 has "interesting gameplay" though

Ehhh, really? I mean to each his own and everything but I don't really remember anything at all interesting about Uncharted 2's gameplay. It was a regular cover shooter with simplistic traversal and really bad stealth. It's as close to a lowest common denominator third person shooter as you can get - by that standard the only thing a game has to do to qualify for "interesting gameplay" is be a third person shooter.

 

[SmokedMeat]

.............

What is the point of a game with little or no interesting gameplay. That doesn't even make sense to me. I mean gameplay itself is the entire purpose. Otherwise why not watch a film?

Guess you haven't played D4?

 

[adin75]

Honestly, I would rather play a game that is trying to do something new and interesting, even if it only lasts 5 hours, than play the annual regurgitation of AAA titles we seem to get.

Can't wait to play on Friday

 

[Piotrek]

I guess that time slowing drug from Dredd could be of some use now.

 

[CyberChulo]

Am I 1886?

 

[RK9039]

Am I 1886?

No.

I am.

I have been chosen, now I will definitely buy this game. I haven't chosen this game, it has chosen me.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Nope.

Edit: Damn. 1887. Lol

 

[Nafai1123]

If someone was to watch a youtube video of someone playing KZ2, it would look like a generic FPS with a shitty story.

...and yet just today we had a thread about how it has some of the best gunplay ever.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Good thing RAD is making cutscenes seemless

A cutscene is a cutscene is a cutscene. If you're sitting and watching for an extended amount of time (I'd say over 30 seconds, honestly), it doesn't matter how seamlessly you got into that scene, or how seamlessly the game decides to throw you back out of it and let you play again. Once you get into the realm of numerous 3+ minute cutscenes with no player involvement, all that "but it's seamless" talk goes out the window. And they're unskippable, possibly the worst gaming sin you can commit beyond releasing a broken product.

Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us don't even belong in the same conversation when it comes to mechanics, encounter design, and pacing.

In terms of what? I wasn't making a direct comparison, only speaking on how important those facets of the games are to me.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

.............

What is the point of a game with little or no interesting gameplay. That doesn't even make sense to me. I mean gameplay itself is the entire purpose. Otherwise why not watch a film?

Not that I'm saying The Order has poor gameplay but not caring if it even has "interesting gameplay" is somewhat strange. Though I suppose given the game is very short it may be worth the experience just for graphics / presentation to some.

I guess if you the only thing you're looking for in a game is interactive "gameplay," then there is no point. It's a problem with the nomenclature of the medium, in my opinion. I don't have a better alternative to suggest, but I'm perfectly happy with games that are more about story and the experience than interactivity and player agency (I love those, too).

I just recently played through the recent Game of Thrones Telltale episode as well as the first episode of Life is Strange. Both are more about the story and experiencing the world than what would be considered "gameplay."

 

[Eusis]

Honestly for a game like this I'd probably prefer it to be short and easy to get out of the way anyway. Also why I'd get it on sale at a deep discount (or rent, Redbox permitting) because it's really just not the type of game I want to get at $60 if I can help it. More like $20 or something, which is kind of in line with a movie price anyway.

 

[Jobbs]

Anyone who would watch an entire walkthrough of a game just before it comes out leads me to believe they had no intention on playing it in the first place and for that reason makes me suspicious of any conclusions they draw from it.

This is how I feel and what I've been kinda stuck on in my head for this whole discussion. I don't understand people who watch entire playthroughs of things they haven't played yet.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

That reads to me as the game is short, but not take-the-piss short. I'm ok with that. Don't pad a game for the sake of wasting my time for another two hours.

 

[Exile20]

Honestly for a game like this I'd probably prefer it to be short and easy to get out of the way anyway. Also why I'd get it on sale at a deep discount (or rent, Redbox permitting) because it's really just not the type of game I want to get at $60 if I can help it. More like $20 or something, which is kind of in line with a movie price anyway.

This actually makes sense.

 

[EloquentM]

This actually makes sense.

I mean I thought that's what most of us are doing who don't want to be spoiled by the walkthrough and are definitely not satisfied with the current price of the game right now.

 

[breakfuss]

Yo I'm saving my energy for the review thread! 'Gon be good. bwahaha.

 

[Piggus]

The amount of effort some people put in to shitting on a game they've never played sure is sad.

 

[The Shogun]

Guess you haven't played D4?

Nope.

I guess if you the only thing you're looking for in a game is interactive "gameplay," then there is no point. It's a problem with the nomenclature of the medium, in my opinion. I don't have a better alternative to suggest, but I'm perfectly happy with games that are more about story and the experience than interactivity and player agency (I love those, too).

I just recently played through the recent Game of Thrones Telltale episode as well as the first episode of Life is Strange. Both are more about the story and experiencing the world than what would be considered "gameplay."

This is true, and I enjoy stuff like Telltale, Gone Home, etc that have very little gameplay. But they also aren't trying to be a 3rd person shooter. They are pretty much interactive storybooks / simulators. I realize thats a personal distinction and not everyone will agree with that perspective, but I consider a big budget AAA 3rd person shooter should have good gameplay mechanics. The Order very well might, but if they are shallow its not something I would want out of the genre at all.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Watching someone play is not the same as playing. Seriously, what's wrong with his post? Aside from making assumptions about a game for which he doesn't own the platform its being released on. How do you judge a game's story, when you personally are not being immersed in the game itself? I saw a bunch of people play Journey and I thought it was a bore. When I finally got my hands on the game, it turned out to be one of my favorite PS3 games.

I still think you simply can't criticize a videogame without playing it. One thing is to say that it's not your thing, or that it doesn't interest you, but to flat out say it's crap without even playing is just plain idiotic.

He isn't talking about the quality of the game. He is commenting on the story from his perspective as a writer. Journey is something different entirely as the game itself is the experience. This is a chest high wall fake movie, where it aims to be a story telling device first. He is in his right to comment on the story after seeing all of it.

 

[Argonomic]

I think games like the Order need a different business model. More like the old Playstation Now (?) model where you pay x amount of money to get access to a game for y amount of time.

20 bucks for 1 week. Enough to play through a 5 hour game. The customer doesnt feel ripped of and the potential playerbase is higher.

AAA console SP needs more than $20 per buyer to survive at the current fidelity.

 

[KOMANI]

I beat mgs3 in less than 3 hours and mgs4 im over one... I Beat tlou twice on a Sunday... Point I'm making is, if you steamroll a game, it's going to appear short.. Especially on easy.