So has the burqa.
Quebec judge refuses to hear women's case until she removed Hijab
- Thread starter Maninthemirror
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So has the burqa.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Stripping people of their identity is secularism?
Maninthemirror
Banned
I don't think the hijab the woman wears Is about a religious preferential treatment. If anything the single mother has taken the light burden of applying what she accepts as modesty.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Head scarves are a part of Christianity for some people.
"Whereas Canada is is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law...."
;P
It reminds me of the old "I don't see color" argument. Some people just like to gang up and hate on one thing to make themselves feel superior. The way they think isn't all that different from groups like ISIS. If these people and ISIS had a little bit of humanity and reasoning, we wouldn't have as many problems.
Aren't Nuns hiding their hair? Would be interesting what happened if one of them faced the judge.
Lmaonade this thread is ridiculous. Do you know what persecution is? Do you know how oppression starts?
I will always laugh at anyone who asks for a citation against minorities. Like, look around for two minutes maybe?
You sound like a dictator.
So basically, Canadians should act like Canadians in Canada but no one can agree what that entails? Probably because you're trying to define people's identities for them? And people should be able to decide that for themselves maybe?
I will always laugh at anyone who asks for a citation against minorities. Like, look around for two minutes maybe?
You sound like a dictator.
So basically, Canadians should act like Canadians in Canada but no one can agree what that entails? Probably because you're trying to define people's identities for them? And people should be able to decide that for themselves maybe?
I was wondering about the nun scenario too.
Maninthemirror
Banned
The Quran suggests modesty and provides example of modesty. More than half of conservative country pakistani women don't wear any thing close to a hijab when I was living there
Or a woman or child with cancer.
You're missing the point. A great deal of the Islamic world considers hijabs to fulfill the modesty component of their religion. Of course not all women choose to wear them, just as how not all Muslims practice Islam under the same interpretation, however those women that do wear them should be free to do so because that is a part of the right to freedom of religion.
MMaRsu
Member
Uhh no? Lets not do that.
User 73706
Banned
Same goes for the Burqa and still you seem against it for some reason.
Why not? Because it won't make people upset?
How about we also treat everyone of every race the exact same. No more Black History Month. Yay for SECULARISM!!!!
Subpar Spatula
Banned
A citation was asked for your statement. Information is needed to understand where you're coming from. A lack of information shows you are shooting from the hip.
"No, it's both. Racism makes atheists more likely to go after Islam than Christianity, and a lot of racism against people from the Middle East is due to the perception that they are Islamic. Both racism and Islamophobia fuel each other, it's like perpetual motion!"
If you cannot show evidence of this statement then you have no argument. I would be arguing your gut feeling which would be pointless. It's best to leave it as is as nothing will come from this.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
I don't see the problem with wearing religious stuff unless they cover the face. However, I don't think religious beliefs deserve any special treatment. They should just allow people to wear whatever they want on their heads, even colanders if they're Pastafarian, as long as it doesn't block their face.
The same applies. If they need to identify her, usually she'll show herself to a female security guard or something if necessary. Stripping a woman of her right to wear what she wants when she wants does not empower them, regardless of what they are wearing.
I agree with this. Everyone wins. The "dress code" is stupid anyway. It's only there to serve the judge's ego.
This judge seems to treat all religions, cultures, and whatnot equally by asking to remove headgear. Firm but fair. Although if this does violate her constitutional rights then hopefully justice (including a civil suit) will be served in her favor. In the USA I have read some incidents about judges asking to remove yarmulkes from both the lawyers and who they represent for what it's worth; but then again it is not uncommon for it to be allowed either. Anyway after looking at what the judges wear themselves, the courtroom looks like a very silly place.
jakonovski
Member
There is no harm in her wearing the hijab --> demanding she remove it is harrassment.
gutter_trash
Banned
Identity politics are shit here in Quebec.
I'm getting a haircut now. I will delve more on this thread in more detail about political opportunisme on the part of the nationalist and separatist provincial parties
I'm getting a haircut now. I will delve more on this thread in more detail about political opportunisme on the part of the nationalist and separatist provincial parties
We are all breathless with anticipation. ;P
Eh, I'm a bit of a ranting atheist at times but I don't see why she should have to take off her hijab if the judge could see her face.
If it was a burqa or a niqab on the other hand...
Did I miss a follow-up post somewhere that said her face was hidden?
If it was a burqa or a niqab on the other hand...
Did I miss a follow-up post somewhere that said her face was hidden?
jakonovski
Member
A ninja might sneak in and flip out?
Mmh, let me guess, by keeping women subjugated and treating them like second-class citizens? By brainwashing them into being only caretakers because that's what women should aspire to? By forcing them to marry young out of familiar interests? By doing so, essentially create second-class citizens that remain so for very long because of early-age at which those kind of mass brainwashing acts are enforced?
Yeah, that sound scary, i guess some people haven't learned anything from centuries of fights for equality and secularism. And to think that those very people are actually against the very sistem that permit them to express their archaic beliefs, truly ironic. It wasn't even 40 years ago that honor killings were actually legal because of christianity mentality, i'm not missing those times.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Because no one as the right to say one person's religion deserves more rights than another, they all deserve equal rights. And from a secular standpoint, instead of picking and choosing what certain people can wear depending on what they believe in or how valid or "ancient" their beliefs are or how many followers their religion has, it makes more sense to have unified dresscode that people appearing in the court mostly need to adhere to. People wanting to deviate from that code because of religion, any religion in the entire world past and present, don't really have merit behind it.
Exactly, but so long as most courts don't allow people to wear (insert article of clothing from list of hundreds) here, then it's fair. If this judge flexed the dresscode for people's heads in other cases and singled out this woman, it's a problem, but I doubt that's the case.
We already do, mostly when they are exceptions to other meaningless traditions (dressing nicely in court) or there are easy workarounds (female body inspections done by females). These sorts of things are conducive to healthy relationships with a diverse populace. There are always things we shouldn't make exceptions for - like religious exceptions from having passports when you travel or whatever, but making our bureaucracy more user friendly and being self critical enough to know that our traditional expectations are not practically meaningful are, I think, useful and important.
MuzzledBasher
Member
Thus far I haven't stated my opinion on the burqa at all, because I failed to see the relevance. Personally I dislike hijab in general, but I do think if you are going to allow veils then you should allow people to wear the burqa as well. Those are the people whose outward identity truly revolves around their submission to Islam, let them keep their dignity as well.
Anyway the roots of my dislike for the burqa goes no deeper than my dislike for the religion. I'm not really up to date with women welfare in the west, and burqa, unlike general forms of hijab, isn't really a problem in Iran so I have little reason to care.
I actually made a mistake in my post that I fixed. I meant to say race instead of religion. I'm all for letting everyone wear whatever they want as long as it's not covering their face though.
I'm having a discussion with that poster about allowing the Burqa in court.
A different person under the Burqa?
Well sign me up, allowing burqas and niqabs in court is an absurd proposition.
Yeah, I fail to understand how anyone can think that this could be a good idea.
They specifically said the woman would have to confirm her identity to a female officer. So what's the danger?
I think I've made it quite clear why I hate burqas, I think they are oppressive of women, and there does appear to be direct corrolation between burqas and more severe oppression of women in Islamic regions, however, and again this is more to the point, burqas come with face veils - which I don't think should be allowed in court.
Who said that? And how do we know if doing that would be acceptable for said women? What if it isn't?
Um, I'm not a Canadian, but I am an American, and seeing as though Canada, like the U.S., was originally populated by First Nations people, I'd say the roots of Canada are First Nation and the religion they practiced.
jakonovski
Member
Because it's so hard for a female guard to confirm identity of a person? A mild inconvenience is enough for you to prevent justice from happening? Inconvenience is more important than justice?
If I were a judge presiding over a serious court case and was interviewing someone I'd insist on seeing their facial expressions and body language to try and determine their truthfulness and motivations. Otherwise why even come to court, lets just do it over a phonecall.
Well you see I agree but I'm pretty sure that there are women who like their Burqa and don't see it as oppression. Same as I think that even the Hijab is some kind of oppression.
If we argue that religion should be protected and Hijabs should be allowed we need to allow Burqas too. There's no way around it.
Terra Firma
Banned
I don't think that is what that guy was referring to. And again, which First Nations tribe do we follow? The First Nations did not have a united, monolithic culture. The Iroquois were vastly different from the Inuit. So again, what "roots" is he talking about?
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