I don't agree that it is a bad episode but I agree with all your other points. I just kept thinking "if he can outlaw killing why the hell wouldn't he accept it?" Again, everyone kept falling on "it's called the League of Assassins" as if that's a legitimate complaint.
ARROW Season 3 |OT| Welcome to the New Age
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I don't agree that it is a bad episode but I agree with all your other points. I just kept thinking "if he can outlaw killing why the hell wouldn't he accept it?" Again, everyone kept falling on "it's called the League of Assassins" as if that's a legitimate complaint.
Maybe he doesn't want to leave his life behind? Maybe leaving his family, friends, and city isn't a worthy trade-off for getting to run your own secret society of ninjas?
I would've liked to see another episode or so of Oliver giving the decision more thought, but it seems odd to me that some people think he should have just leapt at the offer with open arms.
also, while I really haven't minded the flashbacks much at all this season, tonight's seemed especially pointless. It was three scenes of Oliver just walking around with this kid, then suddenly, Shado! It was a completely random sequence of events.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Ras went from laying the verbal smackdown on his daughter to dressing up as The Arrow and shooting bad guys from a ceiling. It screams, "Let me fulfill this prophecy in the most child like way because what I'm doing is complaining when I don't get my ball."
Not only does he have more manpower to fight crime but he also takes a bunch of assassins and stops them from ever killing again so it's a win-win situation. He acted very emotionally and irrationally, just like literally every single character in this show.
RedAssedApe
Banned
this dude looks like the g-man from half-life lol
TDLink
Member
Put me in the "I don't understand why Oliver didn't take the offer" camp. They way the episode played out made it seem like he really should just take the offer (especially due to being able to outlaw killing). Everyone trying to convince him otherwise had extremely weak reasoning and his decision to not do it didn't seem like it actually had weight behind it.
Really the League has been more helpful to Oliver over the course of the series than detrimental, especially in season 2. They have done a pretty awful of job of building up the League as an actual "evil" threat. The primary characters consist of Nyssa, who has helped out Team Arrow on multiple occasions, was Sara's lover, and really was just against them whilst mad about Sara's death. Maseo, Oliver's old friend from Hong Kong. And Ra's...whose primary "evil" thing in the show has apparently been wanting to kill Malcolm Merlyn...who is an out and out psychopathic bad guy that is also a clear cut adversary for all of the main characters.
Due to all of this they have done an awful job of building them (or Ra's) up as an antagonist. And because of that everyone being straight up against them makes no sense. Oliver turning down the offer when he found out they don't have to be about killing anymore makes no sense.
It's just a bit infuriating.
Really the League has been more helpful to Oliver over the course of the series than detrimental, especially in season 2. They have done a pretty awful of job of building up the League as an actual "evil" threat. The primary characters consist of Nyssa, who has helped out Team Arrow on multiple occasions, was Sara's lover, and really was just against them whilst mad about Sara's death. Maseo, Oliver's old friend from Hong Kong. And Ra's...whose primary "evil" thing in the show has apparently been wanting to kill Malcolm Merlyn...who is an out and out psychopathic bad guy that is also a clear cut adversary for all of the main characters.
Due to all of this they have done an awful job of building them (or Ra's) up as an antagonist. And because of that everyone being straight up against them makes no sense. Oliver turning down the offer when he found out they don't have to be about killing anymore makes no sense.
It's just a bit infuriating.
Maybe because the League isn't supposed to be an actual evil threat? They've been established as powerful, but never wanting-to-destroy-Starling levels of antagonistic like Malcolm or Slade. And the writers have been quite clear that their intention with Ra's was to create a "villain" for a season that wasn't like the previous two, whose goal isn't to kill Oliver.
I agree, I would've liked to see him at least weigh the offer longer, if not actually accept and make that his status quo, even if temporary, for the next run of episodes.
If I have any major complaints with this season, it's that they've very quickly wasted two awesome opportunities of Oliver being dead and Oliver being Ra's.
TDLink
Member
Okay, sure. And I agree with that. But all the characters in this episode telling him not to take the gig were basically using the reasoning that the League was an evil threat. It just makes no sense based on both what the League is and how it has been depicted. Oliver, as he is in the show, should have been completely content with that offer and taken it. The reasoning for him not doing so is basically nonexistent except that the writers don't want him to...in which case I don't understand why they wrote it in a way that it seems like the obvious choice to take it.
a secret-boss
Banned
Eh average episode
I thought this episode will affected by Flash's time travel
I thought this episode will affected by Flash's time travel
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
So Oliver can fly now?
Jest Chillin
Member
Everything would play out the exact same way, so no need to acknowledge it at all.
Ben Morales
Member
Love that Nyssa will be training Laurel...
But, I'm not looking forward to the inevitable plot thread where everyone tries to tell Laurel to stay away from Nyssa because she is in the League of Assassins. Ugh...
But, I'm not looking forward to the inevitable plot thread where everyone tries to tell Laurel to stay away from Nyssa because she is in the League of Assassins. Ugh...
neogaffer1
Banned
Too much of this series is completely unnecessary conflict to the point where it has become this predictable.
Nyssa: Our fathers hate us. Wanna be bff's?
Laurel: Eh, the rest of the cast and the fans hate me, so sure. Up for Panera Bread?
Nyssa: Yeah. I could fuck with some panini.
That was a good return episode. Not as crazy as what Barry da Speed Gawd gave me last night, but that's to be expected. Loving that we're getting fewer flashbacks and instead more focus on the characters in the present. Feels like character arcs are actually moving now.
Laurel: Eh, the rest of the cast and the fans hate me, so sure. Up for Panera Bread?
Nyssa: Yeah. I could fuck with some panini.
That was a good return episode. Not as crazy as what Barry da Speed Gawd gave me last night, but that's to be expected. Loving that we're getting fewer flashbacks and instead more focus on the characters in the present. Feels like character arcs are actually moving now.
Ok episode.
That Shado reveal was expected, but I was hoping she'd actually stay dead. Maybe Ras Lazarus pitted her or something.
I still can't accpet that Cap'n Chesthair couldnt see that it's Oliver under that hood and speaking of that scene. Where the hell did he go? What was there for his grapple hook arrow to hook onto?
Only good thing was Roy and Thea hooking up again. They truly were Startling City's sweet hearts.
That Shado reveal was expected, but I was hoping she'd actually stay dead. Maybe Ras Lazarus pitted her or something.
I still can't accpet that Cap'n Chesthair couldnt see that it's Oliver under that hood and speaking of that scene. Where the hell did he go? What was there for his grapple hook arrow to hook onto?
Only good thing was Roy and Thea hooking up again. They truly were Startling City's sweet hearts.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Yup, still terrible.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Yeah
a secret-boss
Banned
PHOENIXZERO
Member
It was kinda... "Eh". Even worse after the insanity of the last ten minutes of Flash the night before.
EDIT: Here's the extended promo for next week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fptVxQEPq4g Remember spoiler tag discussions on it.
EDIT: Here's the extended promo for next week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fptVxQEPq4g Remember spoiler tag discussions on it.
Why would he have to leave everything behind? He'd be the boss, he makes the rules. Ras had his daughter with him. He'd basically be in the same position he is now except he'll have an army of loyal soldiers and virtually unlimited resources. I can't see any real negatives here. Very sloppy writing this episode. I don't know what happened to Arrow this season but it's turning to complete crap getting overshadowed by Flash and Shield at every turn. Everything is just so unfocused.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Agreed. That whole thing was really dumb.
Wiktor
Member
Nice episode. Very contemplative, but fun to watch, which shows the strength of those characters, or rather their ability to evoke empathy from me.
I liked how Oliver at first was nope, but once he returned to the mess in Starling the offer started to feel more and more tempting. Especially since after Lance rejected him, that slot in his life would be perfect for Ra's to slide into. And it was nice for Felicity actually be supportive and deliver good argument, instead of being just annoying.
And Ra's is just so damn good. I love this villain. Never cared much for him before, but Arrow's take on him is just beautiful. That last scene was so great. Ra's donning the hood. Shit's about to get real.
I liked how Oliver at first was nope, but once he returned to the mess in Starling the offer started to feel more and more tempting. Especially since after Lance rejected him, that slot in his life would be perfect for Ra's to slide into. And it was nice for Felicity actually be supportive and deliver good argument, instead of being just annoying.
And Ra's is just so damn good. I love this villain. Never cared much for him before, but Arrow's take on him is just beautiful. That last scene was so great. Ra's donning the hood. Shit's about to get real.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Oliver pisses me off so much. At the beginning of the episode he was reluctant to tell anyone about the offer. Why the fuck did not tell Diggle from the get go about the offer. Creating such fake drama pisses me, and it´s a waste of time.
I love that fact that Nissa will start training Laurel.
Chesthair is right, so is Ras Al Ghoul.
OMG Shado
Thea is having a comfort sex with Roy. That will work out well.
RASSSSSSSSS in the Arrow´s costume. Love it. Let the mind games begin.
Preview spoiler
I love that fact that Nissa will start training Laurel.
Chesthair is right, so is Ras Al Ghoul.
OMG Shado
Thea is having a comfort sex with Roy. That will work out well.
RASSSSSSSSS in the Arrow´s costume. Love it. Let the mind games begin.
Preview spoiler
Arrow vs. ATOM. Ray better kick Ollie´s ass. 'it would also be interesting to see where Felicity´s loyalties lie at
Wiktor
Member
He just needed time to chew on it. There wasn't any real drama from hiding it. He told Diggle the next scene they were in together.
Septimus Prime
Member
You can wait. It's not bad, but it's not spectacular.
Damn, that Asian kid can't act for anything.
Discotheque
Banned
lol asian kid was so bad.
anyways laurel is looking great this season imo. nyssa still the best though but those two are really fine.
also the more interesting characters in the series atm. thea, roy and felicity can gtfo already.
bearythebear
Member
Eh, I bet that's Shado's twin sister or something.
Wiktor
Member
Propably hard to find somebody who's:
1.Canadian
2.Kid
3.Asian
4.Can talk english
5.Good actor
But then again, maybe Gotham's Wayne has just spoiled me when it comes to kid actors in comicbook shows. That boy is just top-notch.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Decent return, buuuuuuuuuuuuut:
What the hell, Ollie. I would have taken R'as' offer in a hot second. He even said "if you don't want them to kill, they won't kill". Goddammit.
Though I think Amell really nailed the dramatic beats in this episode.
Other stuff:
- Loved Lance calling out both Laurel and Ollie on their shit. He's totally, 190% in the right here. What they did is pretty goddamn unforgivable.
- Matt Nable in the Arrow outfit was honestly, fucking hysterical. Is that mook gonna run around now screaming "THE ARROW'S KILLING AGAIN ALSO HE IS QUITE BRITISH"
- Actually, there are so many puns and TDK quotes we can use.
"You must become more than just a man in the mind of your opponent. In fact, you must become him."
- Ray and Felicity have a shit ton better chemistry than Oliver and Felicity. I support Raycity.
- I thought Nyssa was returning to Starling to kill Oliver, but I was honestly relieved that she's back cause she has nowhere else to go and she's gonna train Laurel. Fuck, I hope there's no backstabbing twist there. I'd love for these two to be friends, lol.
- SHADO??!?!??!???!??
- Wow, not sure what to think about Roy and Thea at the end. On the one hand, these two clearly care about one another, but on the other hand, she's drunk and depressed. Some gentleman, tut tut tut.
- Seriously, Ra's in that getup was hilarious.
- Cops in the DC Universe have such a shitty life expectancy.
- Man, Ollie was in a major funk this episode.
It is.
Weather Wizard's clouds.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AW YEAH.
This dude is the fucking best. I can't wait. He better be part of the wedding!
What the hell, Ollie. I would have taken R'as' offer in a hot second. He even said "if you don't want them to kill, they won't kill". Goddammit.
Though I think Amell really nailed the dramatic beats in this episode.
Other stuff:
- Loved Lance calling out both Laurel and Ollie on their shit. He's totally, 190% in the right here. What they did is pretty goddamn unforgivable.
- Matt Nable in the Arrow outfit was honestly, fucking hysterical. Is that mook gonna run around now screaming "THE ARROW'S KILLING AGAIN ALSO HE IS QUITE BRITISH"
- Actually, there are so many puns and TDK quotes we can use.
"You must become more than just a man in the mind of your opponent. In fact, you must become him."
- Ray and Felicity have a shit ton better chemistry than Oliver and Felicity. I support Raycity.
- I thought Nyssa was returning to Starling to kill Oliver, but I was honestly relieved that she's back cause she has nowhere else to go and she's gonna train Laurel. Fuck, I hope there's no backstabbing twist there. I'd love for these two to be friends, lol.
- SHADO??!?!??!???!??
- Wow, not sure what to think about Roy and Thea at the end. On the one hand, these two clearly care about one another, but on the other hand, she's drunk and depressed. Some gentleman, tut tut tut.
- Seriously, Ra's in that getup was hilarious.
- Cops in the DC Universe have such a shitty life expectancy.
- Man, Ollie was in a major funk this episode.
It is.
Weather Wizard's clouds.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AW YEAH.
This dude is the fucking best. I can't wait. He better be part of the wedding!
Wiktor
Member
To Ray. That's the real purpose of his. He flies around in the clouds so that Oliver has something to attach his arrows to.
ATOM - "Automatic Transporation for Oliver" Module
Wiktor
Member
At least they returned fire. Something cops in Central City have yet to learn how to do
There's one big question looming over tonight's episode. Which pairing will be the first to get a Wozzly story; Laurel & Nyssa or Oliver, Ray & Felicity?
Extended Promo
Extended Promo
we'll be needing a GIF of Deadshot's mazel tov from the full episode
It would be pretty funny if they had Ra's actor do a version of Oliver's voice over from the beginning of the show next week if they are going to have him continue to impersonate the Arrow.
I watched the latest episode of The Flash and then the latest episode of the Arrow. Talk about an anticlimax. One kept me at the edge of my seat and the other nearly had me falling off that seat from boredom. I can't figure out what has happened to the show this season. It's like the writers felt they had to top last year's external conflict with a more internal approach but then forgot to back it up with the characters behaving in a way that's consistent (much less human).
I'm also endlessly amused at the contortions required to keep Merlyn alive. In any rational scenario, the character would be long dead if it weren't for Barrowman's contract keeping him around.
I'm also endlessly amused at the contortions required to keep Merlyn alive. In any rational scenario, the character would be long dead if it weren't for Barrowman's contract keeping him around.
Dominican Power
Member
Ra's should never have to stoop so low as to don GA's gear to make a point. It's beneath him.
I'm so fucking relieved that Laurel is going to get some real training because I can't stomach watching her risk her and the crew's lives because of her incompetence.
I'm so fucking relieved that Laurel is going to get some real training because I can't stomach watching her risk her and the crew's lives because of her incompetence.
All the drama-filled teary-eyed monologue scenes are really starting to bug me now. Enough with the filler.
I really don't see the downside of accepting the offer. If Oliver becomes Ra's al Ghul, it doesn't mean he has to stop protecting the city or start killing people. Hell, he could send an entire unit of assassins to do his job for him just as well.
I really don't see the downside of accepting the offer. If Oliver becomes Ra's al Ghul, it doesn't mean he has to stop protecting the city or start killing people. Hell, he could send an entire unit of assassins to do his job for him just as well.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
“The blood debt ends with Malcolm’s death.”
Well well well. If only they trusted in Ra’s al Ghul (and Nyssa!) in the first place then they wouldn’t of had to bother with 99% of this season.
Also: The instant transportation across thousands of miles really does bug me. At least give them an episode before Oliver goes from Nanda Parbat to Starling City.
P.S. I've had enough with Merlyn's redemption arc. The guy is a mass murderer.
P.P.S. Hey Oliver, Lance being a dick to you and Felicity going off with Ray isn't the city turning against you. Those things were the result of your actions.
Well well well. If only they trusted in Ra’s al Ghul (and Nyssa!) in the first place then they wouldn’t of had to bother with 99% of this season.
Also: The instant transportation across thousands of miles really does bug me. At least give them an episode before Oliver goes from Nanda Parbat to Starling City.
P.S. I've had enough with Merlyn's redemption arc. The guy is a mass murderer.
P.P.S. Hey Oliver, Lance being a dick to you and Felicity going off with Ray isn't the city turning against you. Those things were the result of your actions.
Wiktor
Member
There's no redemption arc for Merlyn. There never was really. That's one of the best things about this season. Everytime there are signs of humanity in him he goes and does something truly terrible. He's just a glorious troll.
Also..Starling is supposed to be on the west coast, while Nanda Parbat is in tiber. If Oliver still owns that private jet it shouldn't take more than few hours of travel.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
He literally turned up in Starling City in the next scene. It's bloody ridiculous.
No redemption arc? He uses his daughter as a pawn in his plan then does a 180 and claims he loves her. Thea gives him up (she's the only one doing the sane thing) only for Oliver to attempt a rescue (why? so Thea isn't responsible for her father's death? Oh come on!). Now Malcolm is literally sleeping on the sofa of the person he screwed over, and all in the city in which he committed mass murder.
This season's writing has been subpar in quality to say the least.
Wiktor
Member
How is any of that redemption? He's never going to be a good person. THis season has drilled it pretty hard. Oliver might save him for Thea's sake, but neither him, nor her in under any ilussions what kind of Monster is.
The only way Malcolm's story could count as redemption arc is if the only thing villain needs for redemption is to survive.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I didn't say he has completed his arc.
They should have a zero tolerance policy for that psychopath but yet... ah, what's the point. People will defend this crap no matter what I say.
Wiktor
Member
Yeah...was Flash episode with Arrow the first time you've seen Oliver? Because such policy makes sense only on Flash, not on Arrow where the lead hero is mass murderer and never had zero tolerance policy for the numerous psychopaths he faced before.
That's kind of natural when what you say consists of making up bizzare non-existing problems just to have more reason to shit on this season.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I'm not inventing non-existent problems!
It blows my mind that people like you can't see how fucking shit this season has been. And let me point out that I really enjoyed season 1 and 2 of this show, so my strong reaction to this season should indicate that maybe, just maybe, I'm not inventing stuff to justify any inherent hatred for the show.
That was a pretty disappointing return. First 15 minutes were good, even a few great lines in there, but overall, between Willa Holland's weak acting, spotty choreography and nonsensical reasoning by Oliver - who, when told the League wouldn't kill if he directed them not to (which seems so ridiculous for the LoS but I was willing to go with it) still didn't take it... ugh.
And that final scene. Yeah, they ruined Ra's with that one. So fucking petty and childish.
And that final scene. Yeah, they ruined Ra's with that one. So fucking petty and childish.
Wiktor
Member
Yes, you are. You've just invented a Malocom's redemption arc for a season where the main crux of character development for this character is that he's pure shit, worse than even what we saw before in S1. You could just as well say that the ending of Dark Knight was a beginning of Joker's redemption just because Batman didn't let him die.
It's fine you don't like this season. But you seem to be physically not capable of understanding not everyone might agree with your view of the season as a whole. It;s like you're thinking "maybe if I invent this one more problem it will all change and they WILL ALL AGREE!"
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