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[WhiskerFrisker]

What is Bone Ash set good for? I never even tried it lol

It has pretty good resistances for main thing: Physical, Fire, and bolt it mostly seems scary/intimidating at first. I remember when I saw someone with it in PvP and I thought I was going to get rekt.

 

[Yoshichan]

Yes, because the price increase doesn't change the difficulty only the time it takes to farm them.

You're supposed to engage the boss with the mind set "I REALLY don't want to die because then I'd lose plenty of time from farming vials".

Otherwise, you'd buy 99+20 vials and replay bosses without any fear. It's a system that intentionally wants you to fear the farming time.

 

[Kai Dracon]

"Git good" is the cliche response any criticism that earns the Souls fandom a bad reputation, honestly. There are real design flaws in all of these games; in Bloodborne's case, the vial system is poorly considered in context of the game structure. Pointless warping to and from the hub, long loading times, and the fact that farming does nothing to teach players how to get better at tougher enemies. The good farming spots are trivial, but tedious.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Because it is. Tedious as in tiresome or monotonous. Even if the monotony is very low to the point it doesn't bother you, it doesn't diminish that it is in fact a layer of tediousness that adds nothing of value to the core experience. All having a finite system in this game does is create issues for lower tiered players and adds a layer of wasted time replenishing stock for all players. Some more then others.

"Git Good" doesn't eradicate that. Nor is it an actual counterpoint of any value. It's a snarky throwaway comment that adds nothing.

Replacing the vial system with a automatic replenishment system literally changes nothing about the core game except to eliminate a grinding mechanic that just wastes time.

I disagree. I feel making the Blood Vials something that is finite adds a layer of depth to the game and makes you value your resource management and actual skill that much more. Saying that it creates issues or wastes time is really not a valid reason for wanting an automatic replenishment system outside of, "I don't want to go and get more vials due to me using them all up for whatever reason." That sounds more like laziness to me. The only part of your argument I will agree with it is the time it takes going back and forth from HD which From is addressing.

You're supposed to engage the boss with the mind set "I REALLY don't want to die because then I'd lose plenty of time from farming vials".

Otherwise, you'd buy 99+20 vials and replay bosses without any fear. It's a system that intentionally wants you to fear the farming time.

Holy shit. Someone who is making sense.

 

[Ferrio]

Never thought I'd see people defend grinding, especially the souls crowd.

 

[Deified Data]

Hey GAF, can we talk about something else?

What's your favorite Attire and do you wear it for stats or fashion?
Mine is Cainhurst for most of the game (it's good and looks badass) with Choir and Church sets in certain locations.

First character wore Gascoigne's coat with Cainhurst boots and gauntlets.

Current character is wearing black church coat with charred boots and Gascoigne's gauntlets.

I'm generally not a fan of hats or helmets - they obscure my character's face.

 

[Yoshichan]

Never thought I'd see people defend grinding, especially the souls crowd.

Not counting the late game content in DkS, the implementation of the Estus Flask was one of the worst. This is specifically one of the reasons why I never, ever was afraid of dying from a boss in DkS1 and 2.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

Anyone that's around level 125 can help me with the Pthumerian Descendant in the Ilyhl chalice?

Can anyone help?

 

[VinFTW]

You're supposed to engage the boss with the mind set "I REALLY don't want to die because then I'd lose plenty of time from farming vials".

Otherwise, you'd buy 99+20 vials and replay bosses without any fear. It's a system that intentionally wants you to fear the farming time.

Did you end up getting ds2 on PS4? How is it if so? Thinking of getting it soon.

 

[Zafir]

You're supposed to engage the boss with the mind set "I REALLY don't want to die because then I'd lose plenty of time from farming vials".

Otherwise, you'd buy 99+20 vials and replay bosses without any fear. It's a system that intentionally wants you to fear the farming time.

Well, I still don't think that adds anything either.

Mind you, I'm of the mind set even redoing areas again as a punishment adds nothing to the game.

You're already being punished. If you can't beat the boss, you can't progress, you're stuck there. If you die when you got the boss low, well you just wasted your time and have to start again.

 

[cakely]

Ok 2 areas that will stop me doing ng+. Unseen village and forbidden woods. Hated both of those.

I defeated the one reborn, should I next go up the stars to the nightmare or get captured by the monster in the ceiling and go to the nightmare lecture Hall place that way first?

Spoiler

Both routes lead, eventually, to the nightmare. If you want to do it "in order" get grabbed by the lesser Amygdala (the "monster in the ceiling") and that will take you to the lecture hall, floor 1 and the Frontier Nightmare.

Touching the mummified Mensis acolyte will take you to lecture hall, floor 2 and eventually to the Mensis Nightmare.

 

[Arjen]

Defiled chalice is robbing me of my insanity. Fuck however though this would be a fun idea

 

[R1CHO]

A couple gifs I made

Spider trying to double jump a fire arrow, lol

http://gfycat.com/OrneryUnripeGrayreefshark#

Crazy hunter wanted to show me his cannon ball:

http://gfycat.com/SilverPassionateArmedcrab

Her head is perfect for said cannon ball, SPOILER for a late BOSS:

http://gfycat.com/AgedWarpedGrayreefshark#

2176 damage!

 

[Jonm1010]

It's risk/reward just like other aspects of the game. You die too much or you waste too many vials you gotta spend time or currency getting more.

What is forcing players into grinding for health adding of value to the overall experience? I feel like this is just a circular argument that I had no intention of continuing to engage in. I make a point and then someone new jumps in with the same argument I just discussed.

the process and the execution is where the mechanic falls apart.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Not counting the late game content in DkS, the implementation of the Estus Flask was one of the worst. This is specifically one of the reasons why I never, ever was afraid of dying from a boss in DkS1 and 2.

Exactly. Why fear a boss when you can just slam your head into the wall a million times until you get lucky and break through? There is 0 punishment for losing to a boss in Dark Souls.

 

[Cyborg]

Weird. Maybe your game bugged out

Found it.

I didn't gave her the red messenger Ribon cause I didnt find it. I gave her only the one I found on her mother.

I gave her the red, reloaded and found the White messenger Ribon. Only no one is here to speak to me.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Welp...reached my mental limit... GGs GAF, the game was fun while it lasted......

Spoiler

I almost had a heart attack, then I went to throw the controller up, give up, yell fuck this shit, fuck you game.

Then I calm down. I went in, they dropped, I tried to fight. Terrible idea. They are horrible, nasty, quick, like a swarm. So I actually yelled fuck this shit, fuck you bloodborne.

Then I ran. I ran past them. It's was schilling, these horrible fuckers where dropping lef and right and I could hear them running in pack, like a tsunami of fucking giant spiders, chasing me. It was really an horrible experience but I could enjoy the rest of the level that is to me the really top of the best of the game.

You can do it. I could do it. You can do it.

 

[Yoshichan]

Holy shit. Someone who is making sense.

I was at a 3-day Bloodborne LAN with a bunch of people, and one of the most interesting shit we screamed to rach other from all the hours of playing was "SHOULD I POTION UP?!" and "FUUUCK I SHOULDN'T HAVE POTIONED UP!".

Intense to say the least. It adds LAYER OF DEPTHS to the gameplay.

 

[patchday]

I really don't mind the vial farming. Honestly, in Central Yharnam you can get 20 vials in <5 mins running through just the big enemies who drop guaranteed 2-4 vials.

Takes me maybe 20-30 mins to farm 20 vials + 99 stock. Really, the only thing that makes it annoying is not being able to just sit at the lamp to respawn enemies (like you could in Dark Souls) and instead having to endure 2 loads...like WTF.

Bingo! We can't refill flasks like we could in Dark Souls nor can we reset the lamp to avoid the load times. This is why I'm filling up all my consumables and I'm going to restore the saves. At the point where you and I are in the game it's gonna take 20 mins to restock. That sucks when you just trying to kill a boss

I'm sure later in the game folks can earn 99 vials much faster than you and I

 

[Agram]

I'm generally not a fan of hats or helmets - they obscure my character's face.

I agree, but Top Hat looks classy tho
#swag

 

[Cyborg]

I love this game so much!
After putting it down I just cant wait to play it again! Last time I had this was back with MGS1

 

[Yoshichan]

Did you end up getting ds2 on PS4? How is it if so? Thinking of getting it soon.

I bought it this Monday... then I went to a BB LAN for three days... came home, didn't bring my PS4 back with me, and now I'm too lazy to drive there and get it ._. So no DkS2 PS4 for me quite yet.

 

[Uraizen]

Never thought I'd see people defend grinding, especially the souls crowd.

Already started the game on NG++ and still agree with you 100%. Believe me, I was rollin' in blood echoes, but when you're first trying to learn a boss' patterns and get killed by an attack that kills you in one hit after using a good amount of vials, the grind is annoying. To "git gud," you have to learn. If you people consider farming blood vials as part of the experience, then I just don't know what to say.

Not counting the late game content in DkS, the implementation of the Estus Flask was one of the worst. This is specifically one of the reasons why I never, ever was afraid of dying from a boss in DkS1 and 2.

True, but I'll take this over the tedium of grinding blood vials.

 

[graffix13]

Hey GAF, can we talk about something else?

What's your favorite Attire and do you wear it for stats or fashion?
Mine is Cainhurst for most of the game (it's good and looks badass) with Choir and Church sets in certain locations.

Bone Ash with the Cainhurst helm.

I do like the Bone Ash mask/hat as well....but I like the Cainhurst helm juuuuust a tiny bit more. And yes, I like the white mullet.

 

[Heel]

I'm not going to say it was intentional design, but there was certainly a factor of being extremely careful with how I used my vials, especially early on during boss fights, solely because of the known consequence should I run out completely. The unwillingness to blow through 20 vials in what could be a losing cause added to the intensity of the boss encounters, and probably made the game more difficult too, haha.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I disagree. I feel making the Blood Vials something that is finite adds a layer of depth to the game and makes you value your resource management and actual skill that much more. Saying that it creates issues or wastes time is really not a valid reason for wanting an automatic replenishment system outside of, "I don't want to go and get more vials due to me using them all up for whatever reason." That sounds more like laziness to me. The only part of your argument I will agree with it is the time it takes going back and forth from HD which From is addressing.

So I'm guessing when (if) you played Dark Souls you complained the entire time about how Flasks were not a finite resource? Did you complain about how you could recover Souls when you died? Why doesn't the game just cause you to lose all of your Souls? That would surely encourage you to play better as it adds a layer of depth and challenge. Why not make it so that your armor can take damage and deteriorate with each hit you take, as that would surely add another layer of depth and challenge?

I tell you what, when I beat Ornstein and Smough in Dark Souls I didn't feel a single bit of satisfaction or accomplishment because my vials replenished whenever I died. It's a shame they screwed the game up so badly with that awful design decision that encouraged me to play poorly and not value my resources.

 

[VinFTW]

I bought it this Monday... then I went to a BB LAN for three days... came home, didn't bring my PS4 back with me, and now I'm too lazy to drive there and get it ._. So no DkS2 PS4 for me quite yet.

Yoshi noooooo.

Think I'm just gonna go for it, I'm too much of a souls fan to not have it in my collection, even if I own it on pc :x

Starting fresh with the new enemy placement seems fun

 

[Agram]

Can anyone help?

I'd really like to help but I'm too high level :/
164 so you have to be at least 140
PM me if you will need help after that

 

[KorrZ]

Not counting the late game content in DkS, the implementation of the Estus Flask was one of the worst. This is specifically one of the reasons why I never, ever was afraid of dying from a boss in DkS1 and 2.

Maybe they should bring back Estus but then also include the soul form from Demon's Souls. Getting chopped down to half health was always a good reason to not die.

 

[Phat Michael]

Spoiler

Both routes lead, eventually, to the nightmare. If you want to do it "in order" get grabbed by the lesser Amygdala (the "monster in the ceiling") and that will take you to the lecture hall, floor 1 and the Frontier Nightmare.

Touching the mummified Mensis acolyte will take you to lecture hall, floor 2 and eventually to the Mensis Nightmare.

Do I have to do both? Is there a benefit to doing both?

 

[Yoshichan]

Yoshi noooooo.

Think I'm just gonna go for it, I'm too much of a souls fan to not have it in my collection, even if I own it on pc :x

Starting fresh with the new enemy placement seems fun

I've heard plenty of positive things about the new version! Seriously, buy it.

 

[UnluckyKate]

A couple gifs I made

Her head is perfect for said cannon ball, SPOILER for a late BOSS:

http://gfycat.com/AgedWarpedGrayreefshark#

2176 damage!

How do people make such huge damage with the canon ? Mine is +8, 50 blootinge, with bone arrow ash, I can never do much dmg with it

 

[Jonm1010]

Exactly. Why fear a boss when you can just slam your head into the wall a million times until you get lucky and break through? There is 0 punishment for losing to a boss in Dark Souls.

You all on the one hand make the argument that vials are so easy to come across that it is essentially the estus system in execution because of how easy vials are to acquire and have stocked then turn around and make another argument that your first argument contradicts.

The system can't both be an effective risk management system that forces all players to manage health better and a system with so many health resources we shouldn't even worry about the nature of it being finite. It can't be both. Yet you seem to be arguing just that.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

I'd really like to help but I'm too high level :/
164 so you have to be at least 140
PM me is you will need help after that

thanks. He is truly brutal if you can't parry him. His second phase is bullshit because bullets doesn't parry him in some moves.

 

[Mechanized]

You're supposed to engage the boss with the mind set "I REALLY don't want to die because then I'd lose plenty of time from farming vials".

Otherwise, you'd buy 99+20 vials and replay bosses without any fear. It's a system that intentionally wants you to fear the farming time.

lmao

Are you being serious right now? Yeah, that's compelling gameplay alright. The fear of pure tedium. The horror.

 

[Wynnebeck]

So I'm guessing when (if) you played Dark Souls you complained the entire time about how Flasks were not a finite resource? Did you complain about how you could recover Souls when you died? Why doesn't the game just cause you to lose all of your Souls? That would surely encourage you to play better as it adds a layer of depth and challenge. Why not make it so that your armor can take damage and deteriorate with each hit you take, as that would surely add another layer of depth and challenge?

I tell you what, when I beat Ornstein and Smough in Dark Souls I didn't feel a single bit of satisfaction or accomplishment because my vials replenished whenever I died. It's a shame they screwed the game up so badly with that awful design decision that encouraged me to play poorly and not value my resources.

What does any of what you just typed relate to anything I just said? Could you prop up that strawman any higher?

 

[HardRojo]

I'm glad I virtually never had to farm vials, only 2 times I felt I was in need of them and I didn't actually farm more because going through the world just messing around was such a blast that I decided to do that while getting some vials on the side. I did that before fighting the

Spoiler

3 hunters in Yahar'gul

and before the final battle. The rest of the time I usually had so many vials I couldn't pick up any more of them. Basically I don't agree with blood vials being a bad system, they even replenish automatically, if you have them in storage.

I agree From Soft should have come with a better solution for warping, I don't really like the concept of warping back to the Hunters Dream to go to another area, I also don't know why you can't use the last lamp you visited as a new checkpoint. Those two are my complaints.

 

[Interfectum]

lmao

Are you being serious right now? Yeah, that's compelling gameplay alright. The fear of pure tedium. The horror.

It's the same reason you fear running back to the boss after death instead of having a checkpoint right at the door.

If you die, you will be punished (gotta run back to the boss, a little tedious). If you die a lot you will be punished more (gotta get more resources, more tedious).

 

[Mazre]

Amy and TOR down. Feeling good.

 

[Agram]

thanks. He is truly brutal if you can't parry him. His second phase is bullshit because bullets doesn't parry him in some moves.

He always attacks in combos so if you survive first strike, try to parry him. He is hard and be sure to bring a lot of bullets (don't forget blood bullets if you run out of QS).

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

What does any of what you just typed relate to anything I just said? Could you prop up that strawman any higher?

If you can't understand how my response is directly related to your post then I think we're done here.

 

[Phat Michael]

Damn people in here get pretty offended if you criticise game design elements in bloodborne...

I wouldn't see any harm in explaining things a bit more and not being so damn obscure about everything.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

He always attacks in combos so if you survive first strike, try to parry him. He is hard and be sure to bring a lot of bullets (don't forget blood bullets if you run out of QS).

I got him! My parries where actually getting him. Last bit I just iframes his combo since they're bullshit to parries.

 

[Yoshichan]

lmao

Are you being serious right now? Yeah, that's compelling gameplay alright. The fear of pure tedium. The horror.

So you're saying it doesn't work? Last time I checked, people were being greedy as fuck during boss fights and not using vials despite being at <10% health. Why do you think that's the case? Why do you think they don't replenish their health? Because _they're greedy and they don't want to "waste" vials unless you know you're having a good run against the boss_.

The system works. Spouting anything else regarding this is utter nonsense.

 

[cakely]

Do I have to do both? Is there a benefit to doing both?

Spoiler

Frontier Nightmare is entirely optional. There are some decent shards in there, a couple of good runes, and a fun hunter tool. Much of the level involves wading through a poison swamp, so it can be annoying. There's also an optional boss at the end.

Spoiler

Mensis Nightmare is the actual route to the endgame.

 

[Respect]

Welp...reached my mental limit... GGs GAF, the game was fun while it lasted......

Spoiler

Had an invader last night spawn in that room, I wasn't anywhere near the spiders aggro range, but when he came from that back of that room to fight me, they all came after me...lame that an invader initiates aggro, I wasn't happy about that encounter :/...it didn't' go well for me.

 

[george_us]

Maybe they should bring back Estus but then also include the soul form from Demon's Souls. Getting chopped down to half health was always a good reason to not die.

Losing half your health was one of the worst things about Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 2. Glad they did away with that. Having to backtrack plus the potential of permanently losing all of your souls is punishing enough.

 

[Phat Michael]

Spoiler

Frontier Nightmare is entirely optional. There are some decent shards in there, a couple of good runes, and a fun hunter tool. Much of the level involves wading through a poison swamp, so it can be annoying. There's also an optional boss at the end.

Spoiler

Mensis Nightmare is the actual route to the endgame.

Cheers thanks.

 

[Deku Tree]

Welp...reached my mental limit... GGs GAF, the game was fun while it lasted......

Spoiler

Just run past the room, gogogoogo

Lol...I tried that last night. It wasn't pretty.

He'll run into a hunter while having those spiders chase after him.

You can run past the spiders AND the hunter AND activate the shortcut quickly and never fight them again if you don't want.

 

[Toxi]

Welp...reached my mental limit... GGs GAF, the game was fun while it lasted......

Spoiler

The term "squee" has never been more appropriate.