qa_engineer
Member
Where is this 20% number coming from? And if 20% haven't completed a raid, wouldn't that other 80% be the majority voice? You know the 80% of people who have completed raids and feel like raids are the best part of the game.
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Destiny House of Wolves will Have no New Raid
- Thread starter mcrommert
- Start date
Where is this 20% number coming from? And if 20% haven't completed a raid, wouldn't that other 80% be the majority voice? You know the 80% of people who have completed raids and feel like raids are the best part of the game.
Are we back to this 20% figure again?
What's the reason? That no one wants raids? When VoG was released, Bungie said that 1.9m players, out of 3.2m active players, tried the raid. The reason less folks have finished a raid is is lack of match-making or any type of in-game communication or clan system, nevermind all the bugs that prevent people from finishing the raid. It's a bit ridiculous to insinuate that "20% of ppl have the raid trophy, so 80% of the Destiny population don't care for raids".
How many people completed WoW 40 man raids? How many people completed raids when they introduced match-making and made them small and more accessible?
The Lamonster
Member
Entropy912
Neo Member
To those complaining about 6 vs 3 man end game content, let's be honest: Crotas End normal mode is a 3 person raid and hard mode will be a 3 person raid once we hit level 33.
His #'s are wrong. 20% have completed, 80% haven't. Based on PSN trophy #'s btw.
So... minority, not majority.
Time and resources?
I do hope there are features in this expansion that add to the existing play spaces. TDB added Blades of Crota and the mega battle at Skywatch to the worlds. My hope is HoW will continue this by adding new events / elements to the game world, or add features that in some way enrich the existing content.
Bungie does face the problem that they have a lot of activity types (strikes, patrols, raids, story, now arena) but not enough content within them. Their priorities are split between building on the base content, adding new maps/events to the existing event types, and now adding new modes. The result is each feels a bit starved and spread too thin. I'll reserve judgment until we know what is in HoW (as opposed to what is not in it), but it's a fair criticism.
If you wish to push that logic, CE NM is a solo activity, and soon CE HM will be too.
I don't think they're moving away from raids. They outright said they're working on one right now that will come later. Destiny is going to be supported for a good while, but they also probably want to try some different style of content.
Their palette is pretty thin, but they also can't lean on raids all the time since raids are super hardcore content. Gotta have something for everyone as they build out this game.
Audible Phonetics
Member
Let me clarify. It is the the MAJORITY of the people playing the game that DO NOT do the raids or even complete them. The Raiders are the minority.
There are many, many, many resources setup now for people to find raid groups
The reason that people don't finish raids has nothing to do with that...it has to do with the fact that they are difficult to finish
I guess for me, the thing I don't see is people asking for both. Clearly there is a reason. Whatever the motivations.
And I agree I would like to see a lot more all around.
I just a think that we still have such a lack of information, which is the true failing, before we can really point at something and complain.
The freaking out over no raid could be mitigated if we knew what we were getting.
I want to be optimistic but the track record tells me otherwise.
I just don't like seeing all the massive overreacting before we even have a total picture
Planetside 1 and 2 have been out for years before Destiny, and both were mainstream MMOFPS's. PS2 was an AAA budget title - I can't find evidence of PS1's budget but I'm fairly certain it was AAA too. And both provided roughly 100x the content, for 10x less time, and for less money.
You say it's the first game in the genre, then say there are so many other games to play. What if someone wants an MMOFPS? And the 'aggressive lack of content' in Destiny pisses them off and it is a waste of their money? They have no other option, ostensibly.
Lucky for me, the Planetside 2 Beta scratches that itch beautifully, but not everyone is in that.
About the argument of spending money on an expansion.. how many times have you spent $60 on a whole game and was let down? It was just $35
You can trade in a $60 game if you don't like it. In the UK you can even get a refund from Sony if you bought if from the digital store, within a couple of weeks.
Expansion packs? No luck. No trade in option. No nothing. If you buy it, and it turns out to be shit, well nae fucking luck, son. And I'd put the value of the first DLC at about £4. How much does it cost? £20?
It's far worse than MGS Ground Zeroes. On, like, it's own league of rip-off product.
I even consider the retail Destiny product an absolute rip-off at £50. And that contained twenty times more than the DLC, which was almost half the price. I mean come fucking on.
No!
Time and resources? People really do want to give Bungie a free pass. They reuse assets all the time, and the Destiny development team is enormous. How much of the previous DLC was completed when the game shipped? How much of the next DLC was also completed last year? They aren't giving us any new content between DLCs, so what else are these developers working on?
..... Well, seeing as I never even went to the Crota Raid, I guess this doesn't concern me that much, beside the continued disappointment that I put money on the season pass in the first place ( Digital Guardian Edition).
I had a blast with the time I spent on it, including legit hard runs to VoG, but I just flamed out when I had done all of the pre-raid Crota content. Not worth the season pass price for me.
I had a blast with the time I spent on it, including legit hard runs to VoG, but I just flamed out when I had done all of the pre-raid Crota content. Not worth the season pass price for me.
Abusive_Red
Banned
Forever lost in the dark corners of time dlc inbound.
I may not think they will give me a working raid if they made a raid, but I should still expect it to be non-buggy as a consumer. I shouldn't let a buggy raid be some sort of normal behavior just because it's what they did before.
A boss rush mode is the exact opposite of what Destiny needs. The stupid shitty bullet sponge bosses are the worst part of the game. What it needs is semi random groups of enemies in an interesting and hopefully changing environment.
For me at least, the anger is mostly directed at their terrible communication. How on earth did they think people would react when they said "No raid, come back in a month and we'll let you know what we're actually doing"? I can't think of a single good reason to not give this announcement and show gameplay on the same day.
That's really not true at all. There are a ton of helpful people on those sites that can carry pretty much anyone through a normal raid. Plus VoG isn't even that hard.
Because Joe Shmoe is gonna hit up destiny hook up sites....
They clearly didn't intend on telling us right now the "No Raid" thing. It's obvious urk's post yesterday on bungie.net was a rushed up thing to try to appease minds and cut short on that rumor by admitting it was true. The master mind (yes, that's ironic) handling Bungie's communication lately probably found himself quite clever by not talking about the raid in the press release, wishing we wouldn't notice.
You guys may be right, It just sucks that the people that paid for this didn't get what they wanted. Everyone bought the last DLC and felt the raid alone was worth it....this one not I don't think people will feel the same
ERMint13
Member
The people saying who cares about the raid as only 20% completed it etc etc do you realize those 20% are the majority of the players now? The OT is filled with guys that have put 20-30 days time plus into this game.
Most of the 80% that never completed a raid traded in the game, gave up, or just play a little PvP here and there.
Bungie is trying to bring the 80% back while banking on the 20% to be diehard enough to wait over a half a year for another raid. That's a might ballsy bet and one I'm not sure is going to pay off.
Hopefully this new mode is spectacular because if not they just lost the diehard community.
Most of the 80% that never completed a raid traded in the game, gave up, or just play a little PvP here and there.
Bungie is trying to bring the 80% back while banking on the 20% to be diehard enough to wait over a half a year for another raid. That's a might ballsy bet and one I'm not sure is going to pay off.
Hopefully this new mode is spectacular because if not they just lost the diehard community.
We still don't even know what we're getting yet and won't until they explain what the new game mode really is. How do you know whether you want it or not at this point?
Latvian Hitman
Member
OK. You keep saying we should "expect" this, and we shouldn't "accept" this or "accept" that.
For you, what does "not accepting" something about this game look like? What chain of events are you setting to action with your non-acceptance?
I'm wondering if their content creation tools are simply not very good, or the bar for visual fidelity is set too high to produce quality content at a reasonable pace. We've just hit the announcement of testing for the second major patch on this expansion of WoW and it dwarfs the details of a Destiny patch. So how is WoW churning out content faster? Simpler content? More resources available (thanks to the sub?)? Or maybe they're not, and it just seems that way because the content that is there is consumed less quickly on the harder levels?
Acknowledging that doing both takes time and resources constitutes a free pass? This is a strawman argument, which disregards not only the rest of my post but every other post in the thread making a similar set of points. Both would be great. Obviously, both takes more time and resources.
Omegasquash
Member
Those hard raid numbers are really shocking to me. I just assumed raids were where the party (no pun intended) was at.
Bolded.
Fbh
Member
I think the time has come to sell my copy.
None of these DLC have had any content that seems interesting to me and not having purchased them means that with this new expation there will just be more daily and weekly stuff I'm locked out of.
Or they could make a system for people to team up and beat the raid in-game like a lot of MMO's do
None of these DLC have had any content that seems interesting to me and not having purchased them means that with this new expation there will just be more daily and weekly stuff I'm locked out of.
Or they could make a system for people to team up and beat the raid in-game like a lot of MMO's do
Aressa
You can't die before your death
I can say the same for CoD single-player campaign yet they bother every year.
We've all been doing this since launch, dude.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Funny thing is... that war has always been there, and it was a great way to have a bunch of fun farming purple engrams. Then they nerfed the drop ratefof said engrams. I'm not a programmer, but I can't see any reason why they couldn't make that a six person event, let it last longer, and have the engram drop rate increase with each wave. Even let the occasional exotic engram pop out after a certain point.
Time and resources should be very minimal for something like that.
World of Warcraft has had over 10 years of deployment to streamline and build institutional knowledge on deploying MMO updates and content. This is in addition to all the time WoW spent in the oven.
They also have their janitor record lines for most of their voice acting, as well. Dear lord WoW's voice acting is terrible.
Bungie doesn't even have a year of a deployment under their belt. They're building out their tools. And raids are considerable investment of time and manpower.
It's pretty obvious that the content they've put out the most of is PvP maps, because they've got ten years of making those built up under them.
Then maybe they have a significantly flawed business model? I wonder what a sub-fee Destiny would look like?
(Actually, on that note, though: Wasn't there talk a while back about the big publishers wanting to negotiate a piece of the Xbox Live Gold subscription fee for themselves? Did anything come of that? Has there been any discussion on that front for Plus, now that's also required for online play?)
Hah, I never knew it was there before. I only just ran into the mega battle on Venus for the first time recently.
I think your idea is a good one, and a great example of how they could be building upon the existing world. I'd love for fights like that to be an actual public event, and have different ones crop up on all four planets. It would be a great way to spice up patrols, which desperately need spicing up.
AusRoachman
Member
Bungie Should focus on leveraging the existing assets they have and encouraging long term play, I think a firefight mode could fill that gap, especially if they randomize it, add modifiers e.t.c like they do the weekly strikes.
I also think they should randomise strikes, enemy positions , running it backwards e.t.c , it would help tremendously. More strikes wouldn't hurt (they can't take that long to code), just reuse existing levels, rooms e.t.c
I loved the vault of glass, never brought the first dlc but I hear it was nowhere near as good, if they can add some of this unique mechanics into horde modes then that would be amazing.
Unfortunately with there track record it will probably be a simple horde mode with predictable patterns and spawns. It's a shame because I love the core shooting and the coop aspects, and it still took a long time to get tired of the same old content which surprises me, but I was hooked there for awhile. The measly first dlc , new levelling up, loss of weapon xp killed it for me. I was hoping to come back so I will wait and see what this new dlc offers.
I also think they should randomise strikes, enemy positions , running it backwards e.t.c , it would help tremendously. More strikes wouldn't hurt (they can't take that long to code), just reuse existing levels, rooms e.t.c
I loved the vault of glass, never brought the first dlc but I hear it was nowhere near as good, if they can add some of this unique mechanics into horde modes then that would be amazing.
Unfortunately with there track record it will probably be a simple horde mode with predictable patterns and spawns. It's a shame because I love the core shooting and the coop aspects, and it still took a long time to get tired of the same old content which surprises me, but I was hooked there for awhile. The measly first dlc , new levelling up, loss of weapon xp killed it for me. I was hoping to come back so I will wait and see what this new dlc offers.
If the storyline is longer and doesn't take 40 minutes to complete then cool, I'll consider it worth the money. Players have a good reason to worry, Bungie has let players down before.
I mean, if I recall, they made their money back pretty quickly after launch. Like.. in a day. So it seems pretty sound.
Paying a monthly sub would guarantee more robust patches more frequently with more content being delivered more consistently, but many would not pay it. They chose this method and it's worked so far, but we can't compare WoW to Destiny in terms of support when one has a paid sub and the other doesn't (as well as the reasons Fyre mentioned).
Sure, pre-paying for something you know nothing about should cause you some concern as to what will actually be delivered.. I get that. But to say, today, "I'm not getting what I wanted" when you don't know what you're getting yet doesn't add up for me. Not yet anyways.
That's an old event. Just Eric the Shielded or whatever his name is new. (been covered :])
I feel like Defiance continually added more to their world for free even with what had to be a bare minimum sub-shoestring budget. Defiance had pretty poorly received paid DLC as well so they have that in common.
If the DLC had trophies we would have a clearer picture.
"How many people finished mission 1 of the DLC vs completed the Raid?"
There is one account up above of someone in this category. However, I know here on GAF some people completed the Raid on their alts without ever completing the 'story' missions. They had to ask for help to get access to those missions when they popped up in the daily.
I can compare Destiny to Mass Effect and Defiance.
I wholeheartedly acknowledge that Destiny is delivering a more polished product and trying to achieve a different end-goal. However, something in their execution falls completely flat* and their expensive expansions feels like a lot of nothing. I know it's unfair to make that kind of assessment on feeling and perhaps I should revisit this later to give the claim some substance. I wonder if anyone else that has played those games feels the same way. Maybe the claim that we were getting expansion packs instead of DLC completely blew out my expectations.
To be clear I still like the game.
If this is true, it doesn't matter that much. 95% of the people that played WoW didn't finish raids, or even get deep into the raids, but seeing even other people complete the raids gave you always something to strive for.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Why would you think that? It's pretty obvious just from a logistics standpoint that the one game mode that requires out-of-game planning/social arrangement is going to have less participation than the game modes that people can just hop in and play solo or with matchmaking.
PrivateWHudson
Member
It may not be called a sub, but if comet is $40, and there are two more $20 dlc's next year, then we're still paying $5 a month.
It's hardcore endgame content. By posting on a video game forum you're already self selecting to be more likely to participate in raids :lol
Yeah, people teased this one out pretty quickly. The most disappointing thing is only 3 players. Splitting up 6 man raid teams people have already formed is just fucking stupid. The horde mode may not be bad if they implement it well and it has more replay ability but cutting it down to three people sucks.
Only one new raid this year as well? I thought Comet was line up for 2..?
Only one new raid this year as well? I thought Comet was line up for 2..?
Yeah but you're either choosing to pay for the content in the DLC, like every other game, or choosing to avoid it. The DLC doesn't say "also includes periodic patches, updates, etc between now and the next DLC."
If you look at it that way, you could say you're paying a sub by buying the actual game. If the game costs $60 and the next game comes out a year from now, you could just as easily say "well I paid $60, but really it was $5/mo until the next game came out... it's the same as a sub." I don't think that's a fair comparison.
"Not having anyone to raid with." Um, just go on LFG or the forums on the Bungie app? Everyone has a phone.