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Destiny House of Wolves will Have no New Raid
- Thread starter mcrommert
- Start date
DeviantBoi
Member
They're making the arena challenging not by adding fun mechanics that make you work as a team, but just by making you just three players against a horde of creatures a higher level than you.
Just look at CE. What's the challenge in that? Just level 33 creatures that can one-shot you easily. It has none of the mechanics of VoG.
Diablohead
Member
true, I don't own the dlc but I have seen enough of it with high level play on twitch to understand.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Oh man.
This is theast time I ever buy a season pass in good will without knowing exactly is in it.
Bungie and Destiny 2 can go get fucked.
Yeah I wonder what it's gonna feel like having one of the biggest failures of this generation considering that start it had.
The game is a PoS and that comes from someone who was totally invested in the game and bought everything blind. Beat the HM's, the lot.
Waste of time and money.
Downright liars, smoke and mirror tactics by Bungie.
To think that I was super excited to be playing my first ever Bungie game when they released this...
Shame on me.
Won't fool me again though as I ain't buying anything from Bungie ever again.
This is theast time I ever buy a season pass in good will without knowing exactly is in it.
Bungie and Destiny 2 can go get fucked.
Yeah I wonder what it's gonna feel like having one of the biggest failures of this generation considering that start it had.
The game is a PoS and that comes from someone who was totally invested in the game and bought everything blind. Beat the HM's, the lot.
Waste of time and money.
Downright liars, smoke and mirror tactics by Bungie.
To think that I was super excited to be playing my first ever Bungie game when they released this...
Shame on me.
Won't fool me again though as I ain't buying anything from Bungie ever again.
I understand nothing is set in stone and there's hardly any info regarding this "arena" but just by strolling the internet a lot of people are assuming it is some sort of horde mode and i'm honestly surprised at the amounts of "good. horde mode over raid any day" because, correct me if i'm wrong, isn't horde mode essentially fighting waves of enemies over and over? if so, i feel like horde mode hardly "adds" anything to destiny since most missions are essentially structured like horde mode anyway. move up+set ghost to open door+fight off waves of enemy til door is open+move up to next section and do the same. rinse and repeat.
sure a better structured horde mode would be nice but not at the expense(if that is what happened) of a raid activity. a "true expansion" would provide both.
and being that i'm someone who often played this with friends, I already hated the fact that patrol and missions were limited to 3 players, it meant someone in the clan/chat party always missed out so i agree with this post:
sure a better structured horde mode would be nice but not at the expense(if that is what happened) of a raid activity. a "true expansion" would provide both.
and being that i'm someone who often played this with friends, I already hated the fact that patrol and missions were limited to 3 players, it meant someone in the clan/chat party always missed out so i agree with this post:
NullPointer
Member
Absolutely.
I know I've wanted Bungie to add some more six player activities with matchmaking, both to offer something to six man groups outside of raids but moreso to help players without a clan or a lot of friends mingle. With matchmaking, players would form up into larger than 3 player squads and that experience would help prep them for future raiding.
Even setting aside the idea of Raid matchmaking, there is nothing in the game as it stands helps prep players for forming groups to raid, and that's just kindof bonkers.
This game never stops fascinating me with just how many different pieces make up the whole of Destiny and yet none of it's parts naturally form together into a cohesive whole or grand vision. It still looks, from the outside in, like a collection of disparate ideas, jury rigged together, rushed out the door and then fixed later. I'd be fine with that in a free to play game but this is a big AAA title that wants players to pay quite a bit for the experience in both money and time and tolerance for end-game social logistics.
robertsan21
Member
At some point during the development of this game something went very wrong. The destiny we got can't have been the original idea for destiny.
The game lacks content and fun replayability.
No wonder some bungie employees left in a hurry.
It's sad to see it turn out like this, the game could have been so much more
The game lacks content and fun replayability.
No wonder some bungie employees left in a hurry.
It's sad to see it turn out like this, the game could have been so much more
I would be floored if there were new areas in Comet. Like jaw drop floored. I don't think we see any new Destiny areas until Fall of 2016 with Destiny 2.
NullPointer
Member
If Comet is meant to keep the community engaged until a Destiny 2 by acting as a smaller annualized version (like a Destiny 1.5), it'll need some new environments. I'd expect Destiny 2 to have a whole new set of environments as a new standalone game.
Edit: On second thought this is Destiny so who knows?
trance-ecj
Member
I'm pretty sure, through a leak, that there are indeed no new areas in the comet expansion.
Can't believe people once thought you'd get new areas in the DLC packs. You won't even get them in the comet expansion.
Incorrect.
That's what I think. When that writer left he must have took a ton of stuff with him. I've put in some serious hours but man it sure is half ass. Content is a fart in the wind.
The answer to "why not both" is clearly "because 4 people are still working on destiny 1". No other explanation could explain how slowly they are bringing out new content.
The thing a horde mode adds over the regular missions is presumably variation in the sets of enemies you face, where they come from, and in what order. I've played the strikes so many god damn times I know exactly what enemies are where and when to throw grenades so they're dead basically as soon as the door opens. If Bungie actually cared, horde-like (semi)randomness would already be in every mission, or at the very least all the strikes. Having it as a separate mode is a tiny baby step toward what should have been done since the beginning.
I'm hoping they're developing a system that monitors how well your group is doing and ups the difficulty based on performance. You blasted through the first encounter? Cool, the next one is gonna have twice as many captains as usual.
It's staggering that they apparently thought it was acceptable to make all PVE content play exactly the same every single time.
DeviantBoi
Member
I find it disheartening that the arena encounters will be based on any sort of RNG.
It already sucks for everything else, this is just another place in which it will suck.
It already sucks for everything else, this is just another place in which it will suck.
x24hrs2livex
Banned
I feel like the only thing Bungie got right with this game is the core shooting mechanics. Everything else from story to PvP to its DLC schedule is absolutely horrendous.
All Bungie had to do was make a Halo/ME/Borderlands hybrid and they would have been golden. Like why are there no space ship battles in the game? Didn't Halo Reach have an entire mission that was just an epic space battle?
Also why didn't they seek advice from Blizzard? Blizzard has been doing the MMO thing for a long time right? And it is Activision-Blizzard after all right? Just seems like they could have grouped up and gotten some pointers early in development.
As far as no raid being available, it sucks for those guys who are still playing. I look at my friends list and see people doing the Raid every Tuesday. The rest of the week they are grinding for shards and stuff to make their gear better. Instituting a new horde mode just reaffirms my belief that Bungie took our money and ran to the ban and said fuck us. The whole fucking game is a horde mode. Go here, fight waves of enemies until Dinklebot unlocks a door. Pretty pathetic of Bungie if that's what it winds up being. Also pathetic for people who want that mode when its already in every damn mission/strike already.
All Bungie had to do was make a Halo/ME/Borderlands hybrid and they would have been golden. Like why are there no space ship battles in the game? Didn't Halo Reach have an entire mission that was just an epic space battle?
Also why didn't they seek advice from Blizzard? Blizzard has been doing the MMO thing for a long time right? And it is Activision-Blizzard after all right? Just seems like they could have grouped up and gotten some pointers early in development.
As far as no raid being available, it sucks for those guys who are still playing. I look at my friends list and see people doing the Raid every Tuesday. The rest of the week they are grinding for shards and stuff to make their gear better. Instituting a new horde mode just reaffirms my belief that Bungie took our money and ran to the ban and said fuck us. The whole fucking game is a horde mode. Go here, fight waves of enemies until Dinklebot unlocks a door. Pretty pathetic of Bungie if that's what it winds up being. Also pathetic for people who want that mode when its already in every damn mission/strike already.
Been saying this since last year, the game is leagues better above Call of Duty's "Spawn here, shoot this, level up, and prestige. Rinse and repeat."
But you know what? People enjoyed that aspect of Call of Duty but wanted more purpose to their multiplayer. This is why the CoD players of last gen have migrated and settled with Destiny and the game continues to sell through word of mouth.
down 2 orth
Member
I read up to the 16th or 17th page before getting impatient, so forgive me if this has been pointed out already.
I just think its so strange that all these leaks came out beforehand when people were all but certain there was going to be a raid in HoW, and people were still complaining about the lack of content. Then one of the Bungie crew came out and was suggesting that the leak was old news and that they have the right to change or add new things.
And after his defense of the lack of content, the end result is that even less content will be released.
This is some miserable shit right here. We're looking at a company staffed with at least some employees who have no shame and no regard for their customers. What a piss off.
I just think its so strange that all these leaks came out beforehand when people were all but certain there was going to be a raid in HoW, and people were still complaining about the lack of content. Then one of the Bungie crew came out and was suggesting that the leak was old news and that they have the right to change or add new things.
And after his defense of the lack of content, the end result is that even less content will be released.
This is some miserable shit right here. We're looking at a company staffed with at least some employees who have no shame and no regard for their customers. What a piss off.
I don't think they've ever defended the lack of content or implied that they had more content than the leaks suggested. When leaks happen, they have always been quick to say "This information is old, it may be no longer accurate -- some of those dates may be wrong, some of that stuff may or may not make the final cut."
In retrospect it may have been smarter to simply confirm or deny the leaks rather than this nebulous pussyfooting where they say "Yeah, maybe some of that is true but it also might not be true". If you ascribe to the notion that they were simply incapable of finishing the raid prior to the House of Wolves release date, then they couldn't have really confirmed or denied the Comet leak slide since at the time they didn't know if they were going to finish the HoW raid.
so lets recap:
-they cut content from the main game to sell as dlc or stuff that was advertised didn't even make it into the final game.
-released with minimal content, players complained early on that there is not much to do
-updates provided nothing but more grind and punished veteran players in the process
-dlc1 was minimal and added even more grind.
-dlc1 also added dlc1 to weekly activities with no fallback for base game players = they reduced the things you can do in this game even further
-now they cut the raid for dlc2 the best thing about the expansion
I mean it's like Bungie is on a social experiment to try and see with how much they can get away with
-they cut content from the main game to sell as dlc or stuff that was advertised didn't even make it into the final game.
-released with minimal content, players complained early on that there is not much to do
-updates provided nothing but more grind and punished veteran players in the process
-dlc1 was minimal and added even more grind.
-dlc1 also added dlc1 to weekly activities with no fallback for base game players = they reduced the things you can do in this game even further
-now they cut the raid for dlc2 the best thing about the expansion
I mean it's like Bungie is on a social experiment to try and see with how much they can get away with
There's no reasonable way to "suspend" an always online game. My friend has this game on Xbox One and whenever he suspends Destiny it inevitably bugs out or crashes when he tries to go back to it.
Maybe you can suspend it if you're on the title screen, before it has connected to Destiny servers.
SolicitorPirate
Member
It's really fascinating, isn't it? I genuinely want to know what Bungie's thoughts are about Destiny and their handling of the game. Maybe the current sales and players numbers are enough to keep them confident about their current direction, but they must know that Destiny sold very much on the good will of their name. The same good will that they've completely pissed away.
down 2 orth
Member
Ok I found the quote from Deej.
That means that anything you know about it (HoW) can change. We have a team working on the experience in their own fancy room, and they have some exciting surprises up their sleeves.
Yeah its a matter of interpretation, but I interpret him as saying they have more content than the leaks suggest. Unless he really thinks that replacing a raid with a horde mode is an exciting surprise.
What we do know is that Bungie is focused on making Comet and Destiny 2 right now, and have been for some time. Seeing that most of the post-game content so far has been on-disc DLC, I don't think there's a good excuse for not having more people involved in making sure a raid (at the very least) should come out on the new expansion.
sobaka770
Banned
This game has been out for over 6 months. I'm certain that a lot of people, like me, left the game without even completing the raid.
Considering the lack of any other activities the current population of Destiny is probably for 95% consists of either people who do raids or people who participate in PVP. Therefore not releasing a new raid actually alienates a large proportion of "playing" userbase. I'm not coming back anyway.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Don't forget, with the last expansion they had us playing an already existing level backwards.
I completely understand that, but Bungie said they had released a compliance patch to enable it. However, when attempting to suspend the game whilst on the main menu a notification is displayed stating that the game cannot be suspended at all.
Destiny had a 4GB content patch before Crota's End released. Just today Destiny players had to download a 6GB patch, presumably in preparation for House of Wolves. Data miners who got the patch began to leak all kinds of HoW info that was previously unavailable before today.
Given these facts, why do people continue to assume that all the post-release content was on-disc DLC? What was in that 10GB of stuff we downloaded, if not the new maps, areas, weapons, and raids? If all this stuff was already finished and on the disc, why did they just delay the raid until sometime in the indefinite future?
The only item in the patch notes says "Better handling of rest mode/resume on PS4," which is pretty vague.....and not really a guarantee that suspend will work. Maybe it's just there to make sure that game doesn't bug out and fuck up like it does on Xbox One. Maybe Suspend will work right now but it requires an alteration to the Operating System itself? You could speculate almost anything.
https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Article/12706
"Functionality for the suspend and resume feature will be enabled for the 1.1.2 Update."
down 2 orth
Member
You're speculating that these updates secretly contain content for the expansion packs? When there's proof already that vanilla Destiny was full of on-disc expansion content?
Even if that was true in some capacity, it would be totally bonkers as the game would be taking up large portions of hard drive space for an expansion that many people haven't paid for yet, or evidently, do not want.
More likely they've no idea what they are doing with their "we know better" attitude they always have.
GlamFM
Banned
Data miners will prove that you are wrong in the next couple of days.
The majority of games works that way. You download the DLC content via patch, even if you don't or won't buy. See The Evil Within and many others
http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheG...ews_patch_112_complete_behindthescenes_patch/
Here is a massive infodump of previously unrevealed information on House of Wolves. It includes the names of the strikes, new game modes, new bounties/quests, new ships, new story missions. It came out yesterday, only after data miners downloaded the patch and were able to look at the files now stored on their local hard drives.
If all this was on the disc, they probably would have been able to access it prior to Tuesday.
What proof is there that this content was already on disc? Yes, you could see the names of some expansion content through the menu UI and maybe glitch your way into some inaccessible areas of the Cosmodrome map, but that hardly means that content was finished ready to launch.
At this point the cumulative size of a Destiny installation is probably larger than the amount of data you can fit on a single DVD.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
A buddy of mine said the same thing when I mentioned to him that no raid in HoW. Cept he was not as tact about expressing his feelings as you were. lol
down 2 orth
Member
Ok, that's gross that they're mixing on-disc DLC with mandatory downloads, but I guess its happening.
And yes, that's some good proof of on disc DLC. You could be right that it was not ready to launch, but it would be just as easy to say that it was ready or that it was close. That the expansion was mostly recycled content is suspicious enough for me.
I think there are probably only two plausible options that have been mentioned here so far: it either got scrapped at some point or pushed back for Comet. So it was essentially either not given the amount of priority in production as the other two raids, or we're looking at some shady business practices. And we've already established how they go about distributing DLC...
GlamFM
Banned
There is actually no proof of on disc DLC, get that out of your head.
down 2 orth
Member
Maybe you would have an interesting point...
Bungie (Sorta) Explains Why Some Of Destiny's DLC Is On The Disc
If Bungie didn't admit to it already.
GlamFM
Banned
Maybe you have not read the article...?
Glitching into unfinished areas ≠ on disc DLC.
Bungie have a history of shipping games with unfinished areas that were left behind at some point during development.
That´s just how game development goes.
Some devs clean this stuff up - some don´t.
When you plan to work on this stuff later on there is also no need to clean it.
On Disc DLC would be something that you unlock by downloading a 70kb patch RE5 style and that is ready to go.
This is clearly not the case here.
Lé Blade Runner
Member
The only thing I really enjoy about Destiny is its PVP. The gunplay is amazing and the pace of the action is just perfect for me - I am not a good twitch-shooter, but give me something a bit slower and I do pretty well. Not that I care about it, but my K/D has never been this high in anything. I just want more PVP content.
down 2 orth
Member
It's a good article, definitely relevant to this topic.
But I'm not sure where your argument is coming from because:
The writer of the article is very specific that he's talking about on-disc DLC:
"That's rightDestiny has committed one of gaming's cardinal sins: On-Disc DLC. On-disc DLCthat is to say, content that's on a game's disc but is locked until you download more files and potentially pay more money"
Bungie's president agrees with him that it's on-disc content for planned as DLC:
"There's a bunch of shared-world content we've shipped on the disc specifically to limit download sizes for people... they're seeing pieces we built and shipped ahead of time"
And to me it really looks like it's on-disc DLC. I mean... how are those unfinished areas on the disc not supposed to be on-disc DLC?
GlamFM
Banned
Great move to leave out the relevant part of the quote to make a point.
"So we share a lot of assets across all the activities in the game. When people get into areas that aren't unlocked right now, they're seeing pieces we built and shipped ahead of time, but they're by no means the finished experiences or even the finished content."
Turns out I´m done talking to you.
down 2 orth
Member
Yes, that's his defense for including the content on the disc, but he's not trying to redefine or deny that they are doing this.
Anyways, fair enough. It's a waste to get all heated up over one game.
And people on here and Reddit were defending it. That's really how they get away with it. They have so many apologists that will happily pay for their "new" content and fiercely defend it.
Remember when they locked out non-DLC owners out of the weekly Nightfalls and Heroic Strikes?
Yeah really mature response there mate...
The burden is on Bungie now. They really need to prove their worth with this. Not only from before with the massive shortcomings from standalone game and the DLC but now this.
It almost seems silly that we keep on hoping that they will make Destiny the game we all want it to be.
My friends and myself, we are all happy it isn't a 6 player Raid.
When CE came out I had 3/4 regular teams who all got loot randomly, and the game never gave me one weapon.
I spent ages and now I can solo the entire Normal CE and up to Crota on Hard CE. I preferred it over VoG because I can now jump on, see that a friend is online, and for weeks I can say "hey wanna do CE now?" instead of going on LFG or setting a time.
6 player Raids can be in there, but being the only way to get certain things, like say, completing Hard Crota (for the longest time) was terrible. Matchmaking wouldn't work because the game is simply poorly designed.
There has never been any real challenge. Valus T'aurik and Hard Crota are two VERY good examples of the type of challenge Destiny can achieve.
Damage Sponge, where it is easy if you have patience (and any attempt to make it faster is when you can fail) -- and BUG roulette. Fuck bug roulette, hours of shit performance where if it worked as intended we would all be done in 1-2 tries.
Eventually I just stopped playing Hard Crota (last boss) entirely even if friends wanted to play because now, unless you get lucky and somehow get a decent team on LFG, you can't.
Try to find a good team to do Confluxes for example. You will always get new players doing it since all the good players have moved on.
Stuff like soloing Templar, Crota (Normal) and Nightfalls isn't intended for the game. These aren't challenges you are rewarded for in Destiny.
A 3 player Raid is probably some sort of test. It means I only have to find one other person if I want to help a friend, or possibly maybe I can 2 man it if my friend and I are good.
It's like trying to get ODST Firefight Achievements with just one other buddy, it's hard but possible.
To this day, VoG Hard is simply inaccessible for 2-3 people (up until Templar I suppose).
Now when it comes to loot, I got EVERYTHING about a month ago, before that I had everything I needed/wanted a month before. What kept me playing is that Destiny, unless Halo with its poor online netcode, is that I can jump on with friends and complete Nightfalls and stuff on the spot without any preparation.
Case in point, I am currently in Tokyo and that means I can't play Titanfall, BL2 or Halo (or anything really) online without insane lag to US or UK. Destiny is sub-par when it works, but that's good enough. 6 player raids have always been the worst part of Destiny and that is why people loved playing CE over VoG. Just yesterday we 2-manned Nightfall and the whole normal CE without any of this Matchmaking with idiots or LFG bullshit.
tl;dr, 3 person Raid makes me VERY happy.
When CE came out I had 3/4 regular teams who all got loot randomly, and the game never gave me one weapon.
I spent ages and now I can solo the entire Normal CE and up to Crota on Hard CE. I preferred it over VoG because I can now jump on, see that a friend is online, and for weeks I can say "hey wanna do CE now?" instead of going on LFG or setting a time.
6 player Raids can be in there, but being the only way to get certain things, like say, completing Hard Crota (for the longest time) was terrible. Matchmaking wouldn't work because the game is simply poorly designed.
There has never been any real challenge. Valus T'aurik and Hard Crota are two VERY good examples of the type of challenge Destiny can achieve.
Damage Sponge, where it is easy if you have patience (and any attempt to make it faster is when you can fail) -- and BUG roulette. Fuck bug roulette, hours of shit performance where if it worked as intended we would all be done in 1-2 tries.
Eventually I just stopped playing Hard Crota (last boss) entirely even if friends wanted to play because now, unless you get lucky and somehow get a decent team on LFG, you can't.
Try to find a good team to do Confluxes for example. You will always get new players doing it since all the good players have moved on.
Stuff like soloing Templar, Crota (Normal) and Nightfalls isn't intended for the game. These aren't challenges you are rewarded for in Destiny.
A 3 player Raid is probably some sort of test. It means I only have to find one other person if I want to help a friend, or possibly maybe I can 2 man it if my friend and I are good.
It's like trying to get ODST Firefight Achievements with just one other buddy, it's hard but possible.
To this day, VoG Hard is simply inaccessible for 2-3 people (up until Templar I suppose).
Now when it comes to loot, I got EVERYTHING about a month ago, before that I had everything I needed/wanted a month before. What kept me playing is that Destiny, unless Halo with its poor online netcode, is that I can jump on with friends and complete Nightfalls and stuff on the spot without any preparation.
Case in point, I am currently in Tokyo and that means I can't play Titanfall, BL2 or Halo (or anything really) online without insane lag to US or UK. Destiny is sub-par when it works, but that's good enough. 6 player raids have always been the worst part of Destiny and that is why people loved playing CE over VoG. Just yesterday we 2-manned Nightfall and the whole normal CE without any of this Matchmaking with idiots or LFG bullshit.
tl;dr, 3 person Raid makes me VERY happy.
It's not a raid.
Fair enough if you like it. Many of us don't. Just takes away from the 'mmo' element (which barely exists anyway I guess).
I think I'm going to pack it in after this DLC (I've already paid for the season pass so might as well). It's just a series of disappointments with this and I feel like I clung on purely because of the raids being the only decent bit of gameplay in the title.
Shit story with awful execution
Tacked on MMO elements
No persistent online worlds
Ships that are just loading screen assets
Massive grind fest
Cack RNG loot system
Lack of variety
Lack of massive levels
Maybe I'm the mug for expecting most of the above to be addressed. Its a testament either to my sheer naivety or how badly I want Destiny to be done right and what I feel we were alluded to be getting (aka the hype that Bungie capitalised on with their statements).
Le sigh...
Diablohead
Member
they still do don't they?
and removing engram rewards for non doc strike playlists, after adding them back in October to fix shit drop rates...