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[Tainted]

This isn't mentioned enough. It doesn't necessarily mean the fps will be significantly higher, but it does assuredly mean it is high than 30fps. The question is, by how much, and that is likely never going to be demonstrated unless developers open this up or someone can modify the PS4 to demonstrate it.

It would be nice if they added an unlock framerate option in a future patch...but I also think it is unlikely, as i'm pretty certain it would be all over the shop. What we have is a happy medium between performance and gfx quality.

On a sidenote...I need to stop watching gtav-pc 60fps streams, as it makes it harder when I fire up my PS4 version :/

 

[AkuMifune]

Impressive numbers for that system...

Running an OC'd 2500K (4.3GHz) on a 2GB 770 with 8GB and I'm usually at 60/1080 with occasional dips, most settings pretty high, though limited due to VRAM. Silly me for getting the 2GB version. Debating getting a 980 right now or waiting for the new gen.

I have the same system and look forward to triple-dipping. I will still play GTAV Online on PS4 primarily though as that's where my friends are. /shrug

Also, we aren't far enough in the console lifecycle for anyone to be 'coding to the metal'.

 

[Zemm]

Hopefully this will be a very short console generation because these consoles are going to be terribly outdated in 2-3 years. Some might say they already are but I'd put them at low-mid level hardware right now which won't be the case for long.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

I actually didn't intend to have an argument, just to state why this is an important question, but I'll bite. I'm about 70% in support of the pc platform. I love the idea of consoles but I'm afraid they aren't fulfilling their potential at the moment and aren't really capable of competing with pc.


All these needs are based on gaming on a TV. I doubt gamers moving from console to pc would demand they game on a bigger, lower resolution and lower framerate screen.
Yes, this is the big thing that separates the two pieces of hardware. Except PC's are getting easier and consoles are getting less plug-and-play.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that most console gamers prefer playing on a tv, in alot of cases the bigger the better and dont want to downsize. I personally play on a 70" tv and would hate to go to a smaller screen.
And how the fuck are consoles getting less plug and play ? For example I mentioned hdmi-cec to turn on your receiver and tv and set the inputs automatically - no console before the ps4 has ever had this functionality. I dont even touch a remote to get playing. Playgo - pop a disk into the ps4 for the first time, the game starts installing and you're playing within two minutes. On the 360 you had to manually install games. Put in rest mode and system and game updates download automatically ready for the next time you power it on.
The ps4 honestly is the most streamlined, easiest to use console I've ever owned. Saying consoles are getting less plug-and-play is flat-out ignorant.

 

[Nzyme32]

Eh, sucks that alexandros got juniored.

True. Maybe do to editorialising it a bit? Plenty of people editorialise their GAF posts, so it can't be that. But if some one could chromakey a GAF moderator avatar over the oil monster, it would make a cool GIF / webm

 

[JonathanPower]

Lets be clear, though, the ps4 version currently holds a rock solid 30fps without dips. That requires a frame-rate well above 30fps on average. If it were unlocked I wonder what we'd see? With the 30fps cap it's impossible to know.

What this man says.

 

[TomRL]

I think that end of the PC spectrum can handle itself better than a PS4 when the effort is applied to actually have such PC hardware be used effectively, something that at times is not done by console centric developers - but is an ever improving situation. The new APIs on the way likely offer a way to have such efficacy that is more easily implemented over current APIs, so I'd hope to see this situation continue to improve.

In the end this discussion becomes moot. If you want a locked 60fps, you can't get it with a 750ti - but you can have a locked 30fps. If you want something that is easily averaging 59fps but has some dips, the 750ti remains an option. Meanwhile that freedom won't exist on a console (at least not yet), and I'd hope people are well aware of those differences.
.

I agree with most of this. That the pc's have compute and API's as good as the consoles now, the advantages of optimization on consoles are becoming less and less pronounced. And on the 750ti, the graphical settings were actually on high, with population and distance scaling at 50%, and it was still consistently above 60fps with long dips between 60-50. Point is, the 750TI probably only has to go from high to medium to maintain that 60fps throughout the whole experience. Even low end cards can get 60fps on every game.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Hopefully this will be a very short console generation because these consoles are going to be terribly outdated in 2-3 years. Some might say they already are but I'd put them at low-mid level hardware right now which won't be the case for long.

2019 i'd say.

Consoles being outdated is the law of the land. They went for budget parts for high selling returns to the consumer, and it seems to be working out for everyone outside of those who want more graphics/power. And there's already an option for them.

As long as the games i want to buy keep coming, i think its fine that PC's get 10 to 20 times more powerful, as they should

 

[Tworak]

surely a bit surprising, but the weak console cpu is really really weak.

Kind of messed up if you ask me. The thread was a little provocative perhaps but was certainly a relevant topic to this forum.

console gamers are a protected class on gaf. besada wrote a post about it a month or so ago. and I'm pretty sure alex was a junior before this thread. or maybe I'm confused.

 

[thefil]

I love these threads. Nobody should be saying that people should not have bought GTAV on consoles, or that consoles are obsolete. Just that you can play games on a relatively budget PC, which is nice. PC and consoles still have loads of relative advantages that can be deciding factors when deciding what to buy (especially if you can only have one).

PC:
+ hardware/software customization
+ incremental upgrade capability
+ non-media use cases
+ free online
+ competitive digital marketplace
+ general purpose multitasking
+ option of higher IQ/performance
+ long-term backwards compatibility

Console:
+ minimal up front and incremental setup
+ overall polish of user experience
+ out of the box configured for TV use
+ physical size
+ retail releases
+ cheaper by at least $50 than PC hardware that performs equivalently
+ fewer software compatibility issues
+ comes with a controller
+ earlier multiplatform releases (generally)

Varies where the advantage lies:
+ exclusive titles
+ size of library
+ size of multiplayer player bases
+ aesthetics

I'd be interested if there are any other reasons people have for choosing one or the other.

 

[Fracas]

I'm totally talking out of my ass but AMD GPUs are terrible and probably a significant bottleneck for the consoles.

 

[TomRL]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that most console gamers prefer playing on a tv, in alot of cases the bigger the better and dont want to downsize. I personally play on a 70" tv and would hate to go to a smaller screen.
And how the fuck are consoles getting less plug and play ? For example I mentioned hdmi-cec to turn on your receiver and tv and set the inputs automatically - no console before the ps4 has ever had this functionality. I dont even touch a remote to get playing. Playgo - pop a disk into the ps4 for the first time, the game starts installing and you're playing within two minutes. On the 360 you had to manually install games. Put in rest mode and system and game updates download automatically ready for the next time you power it on.
The ps4 honestly is the most streamlined, easiest to use console I've ever owned. Saying consoles are getting less plug-and-play is flat-out ignorant.

I own the PS4 and I've played a Wii-U, I know how it actually is. Consoles are getting to be a pain in the backside to play. Less so this generation, but it's still true. You have to install the entire blu-ray onto the HDD now, which is often over 30gb for triple-a. Then you have the patches that aren't getting any smaller this generation. Then you have codes. It's all getting less and less plug-and-play as the consoles evolve. Even with the Wii-U, don't expect to be playing that very much on the first day you get it, it's far more complicated than simply plugging in and playing.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

I'm totally talking out of my ass but AMD GPUs are terrible and probably a significant bottleneck for the consoles.

If you need to qualify your statement in such a way, you probably shouldn't say what you're about to say.

 

[Nzyme32]

It would be nice if they added an unlock framerate option in a future patch...but I also think it is unlikely, as i'm pretty certain it would be all over the shop. What we have is a happy medium between performance and gfx quality.

On a sidenote...I need to stop watching gtav-pc 60fps streams, as it makes it harder when I fire up my PS4 version :/

For me it is a no contest really. I'm always going to choose a framerate of at least 60fps and high IQ if my hardware can handle it. I don't really care much towards fidelity outside of that, but that's why I chose to get PC games (along with features and PC only games). Even when I have a system that can't even match that, at least I have the option to play in the first place and make my decisions to build and move to new hardware as I feel like it. It is very much the game's capabilities in question over my systems ability outside of being able to play it at a playable level temporarily.

If you've chosen a new console, sure you might not get all the extra bits and better framerates / flexibility etc, but you do have a good enough system to enjoy a ton of games very competently at a great price, along with some games / features available nowhere else (same as the PC folks). Even for PC folks, you can only go as high as your hardware allows, and inevitable everyone wants to go a step further when someone with more high end hardware shows it off. But that is something you can always get into at a later date, whether via a PC / new hardware / new console and remastered version. It's just about when you want it or how much you really care about that stuff.

 

[FairXchange]

I'm totally talking out of my ass .

Yup.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I'm totally talking out of my ass but AMD GPUs are terrible and probably a significant bottleneck for the consoles.

I think the bottleneck lies in the terrible jaguar CPUs

 

[hodgy100]

I'm totally talking out of my ass but AMD GPUs are terrible and probably a significant bottleneck for the consoles.

their CPU's are shit. their GPU's are pretty good

 

[Raonak]

Seems heavily CPU bound, since the game runs the same on PS4 & Xbone. An extra year of optimisation helps too.


fact: consoles aren't as powerful as PCs
fact: some people enjoy consoles more than PCs and vice versa.

 

[SneakyStephan]

As i said before, Alex has a history. You think 'low level optimizations' and 'coding the metal' aren't just bait? He's made like 8 threads(that i can remember without going into any post histories) specifically on this PC vs console master race rhetoric specifically to push an agenda(not to mention the attitude of many of his posts in threads not even relating to such things) and its really annoying.

I didn't wish Junior on him, but sometimes the climate just needs to come down for some people.

This thread is not master race rhetoric at all

If you read other pc, or console hardware, or hardware deal/sales or even the alienware alpha thread those are always FULL of the claims that alexandros reffered to.
I guess he was too coy about the way he did it , but the thread itself definitely has its merit.

People bring up coding to the metal, optimisations etc and claim that a 750ti and i3 won't perform similarly to a ps4 because of those in every single one of these threads, and they are dead serious about it.
(despite it being wrong)

The day we can have a thread about exploring how much it costs to build an entry level gaming pc or how a game would perform on certain hardware without it instantly being shat up with the 'but console optimisation' posts is the day a thread like this will no longer have merit.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

I own the PS4 and I've played a Wii-U, I know how it actually is. Consoles are getting to be a pain in the backside to play. Less so this generation, but it's still true. You have to install the entire blu-ray onto the HDD now, which is often over 30gb for triple-a. Then you have the patches that aren't getting any smaller this generation. Then you have codes. It's all getting less and less plug-and-play as the consoles evolve. Even with the Wii-U, don't expect to be playing that very much on the first day you get it, it's far more complicated than simply plugging in and playing.

I addressed your points about installing games and patches/system updates in the very post you responded to. Are you intentionally ignoring my points about the games installing automatically and updates downloading automatically if you use rest mode ? If you find the ps4 difficult to use than you're not taking advantage of the features it offers to you.

 

[hesido]

Did they really have to put so weak "cpu's" in current gen.. Damn, man.

At least have them at 2ghz.. Screw this.

 

[cyberheater]

Or they decided that 30fps on PS4 was enough and stopped optimising after that.

 

[grandwizard]

I remember the amount of hate that was generated with alexandros' threads when the current gen console hardware was revealed when he was suggesting that they weren't going to have as big a power/cost advantage as consoles historically had. Now a year and a half later and almost every comparison has proven him right.

There will stop being a need for this to be pointed out when the same 'coding to the metal' and 'forced upgrades' rhetoric stops being a common fallacy.

 

[Etnos]

Or they decided that 30fps on PS4 was enough and stopped optimising after that.

ohh my... the things you read, never change internet

 

[Dictator93]

ohh my... the things you read, never change internet

Very similar to the "they didnt try hard enough to get 60" sentiment

 

[Zombie James]

Or they decided that 30fps on PS4 was enough and stopped optimising after that.

I call this the Destiny Defence™.

 

[Nzyme32]

ohh my... the things you read, never change internet

Well it is a possibility, very much like some of the opinion that for the PC version, they didn't try very hard outside of 60fps. While you can easily go above 60fps, even with excessive hardware it is very difficult to maintain something like 144fps

 

[Percy]

As i said before, Alex has a history. You think 'low level optimizations' and 'coding the metal' aren't just bait? He's made like 8 threads(that i can remember without going into any post histories) specifically on this PC vs console master race rhetoric specifically to push an agenda(not to mention the attitude of many of his posts in threads not even relating to such things) and its really annoying.

I didn't wish Junior on him, but sometimes the climate just needs to come down for some people.

Yep, definitely brought it on himself.

For a guy who has stated pretty definitively in the past that he will "never buy a console", he really comes off as being downright obsessed with the PS4 and scoring points off of PS4 owners with regularly provocative posting on the matter. Behaviour for which he has been banned multiple times it's worth keeping in mind for those who honestly believe this thread was a genuine query on his part. The article in question might be worth discussing, sure, but I don't believe this thread was created to do that.

It's funny to see alexandros' thread making privileges being held up as martyr to the cause of PC game fan inequality on Neogaf all the same though.

 

[TomRL]

I addressed your points about installing games and patches/system updates in the very post you responded to. Are you intentionally ignoring my points about the games installing automatically and updates downloading automatically if you use rest mode ? If you find the ps4 difficult to use than you're not taking advantage of the features it offers to you.

I'm not finding the PS4 difficult to use, just too slow. The speed at which I can get my PC on and running a game is about the same time. The alleged feature that lets the PS4 download updates while in standby just isn't there. And when you first get a game you still run into the problem of having to wait for it to install for entirely too long. And when you first get any of the consoles you have to waste your time tinkering with the settings, downloading massive updates and installing massive games. So yeah, consoles have become less plug-and-play. I'm not saying they are entirely inconvenient however, this is still the only major advantage that the consoles have.

 

[blastprocessor]

Is gta5 really multi core optimised and is there any proof?

 

[TxdoHawk]

Hopefully this will be a very short console generation because these consoles are going to be terribly outdated in 2-3 years.

I would not hold my breath on that one.

Diminishing returns in the realm of CPU/GPU improvements + console gamers balking at high prices (remember 599 US DOLLARS?) + Console gamers expecting substantial graphical leaps in a new generation means Sony/MS pretty much have no choice but to drag out the console generations. It's the only way they can continue to release new consoles that are worth the upgrade over the previous gen, but aren't overly expensive.

 

[Kezen]

Is gta5 really multi core optimised and is there any proof?

It is, at least on PC :

 

[Lingitiz]

Hopefully this will be a very short console generation because these consoles are going to be terribly outdated in 2-3 years. Some might say they already are but I'd put them at low-mid level hardware right now which won't be the case for long.

Doubt it. We'll just reach the point we reached last generation way earlier. Developers were mostly leading multiplatform development on PC or at least leading their promotion with PC visuals and you could make the argument that this is happening already. The 970 is kind of the mid-high end standard right now and is significantly more powerful than a PS4.

 

[blastprocessor]

The above chart doesn't look great to me if you dicount the first graph.

Seems two cores make a good difference.

 

[lukeskymac]

It's the CPU but you probably already knew that. Hope it was worth getting juniored.

only begging i see ITT is a couple people begging for water because their sodium levels are through the roof

I wouldn't say it's "begging", but this isn't an isolated occurrence. It does come off as insecure. Platform wars, man.

 

[DevilFox]

Also, we aren't far enough in the console lifecycle for anyone to be 'coding to the metal'.

Far enough for a couple of interesting GDC talks about the subject, though. I don't understand why people laugh at the concept of optimzation or "code to the metal" like it was dark magic or something. Rockstar has done a great job with GTA V on all platforms, this is why it runs well everywhere.. it doesn't mean that consoles have no more potential.

 

[Nzyme32]

The above chart doesn't look great to me if you dicount the first graph.

Seems two cores make a good difference.

That's hyperthreading. They are not physical cores. The blue ones are the actual cores, and they seem well balanced

 

[ghst]

That's been fixed.

fixed is one way to put it.

 

[lukeskymac]

Far enough for a couple of interesting GDC talks about the subject, though. I don't understand why people laugh at the concept of optimzation or "code to the metal" like it was dark magic or something. Rockstar has done a great job with GTA V on all platforms, this is why it runs well everywhere.. it doesn't mean that consoles have no more potential.

Yup. Don't forget GTA V is open world and it's open world on a much larger scale than, say, Watchdogs.

Also, it's still a last gen game. Prettied up, of course, but this gen's GTA is going to look prettier, platform by platform.

 

[freshVeggie]

Hm. Since there is a lot of CPU talk going on and i3 is doing better than I expected, I thought asking here might give good answers.

Would an i5 CPU enough for a PC to take it through this console-gen?

 

[blastprocessor]

That's hyperthreading. They are not physical cores. The blue ones are the actual cores, and they seem well balanced

Right got it now. Doesn't look bad actually.

 

[Windom Earle]

edit: nvm, has been discussed enough already.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This thread is not master race rhetoric at all

If you read other pc, or console hardware, or hardware deal/sales or even the alienware alpha thread those are always FULL of the claims that alexandros reffered to.
I guess he was too coy about the way he did it , but the thread itself definitely has its merit.

People bring up coding to the metal, optimisations etc and claim that a 750ti and i3 won't perform similarly to a ps4 because of those in every single one of these threads, and they are dead serious about it.
(despite it being wrong)

The day we can have a thread about exploring how much it costs to build an entry level gaming pc or how a game would perform on certain hardware without it instantly being shat up with the 'but console optimisation' posts is the day a thread like this will no longer have merit.

He wasn't juniored for showing DF's findings. One could have simply posted the article(with the original title no less) and the findings would have spoken for themselves.

The issue was he made the thread with obvious intent, with a thread title obviously bait, with a first post even more so, asking stupid questions with bait terms that he already knew the answer to, acting intentionally obtuse in order to start a PC chest thumping war once again. Its a more subtle Horse Armor or Thrakier post.

We can have conversations and debates about this without agenda people acting like they are above reproach on these matters.

 

[Javin98]

Geez, it's threads like this that bring out the worst of some PC gamers. Good luck, guys, you're gonna get another thread locked. Anyway, are we even sure the PS4 version is running everything on high? Perhaps Post FX, water and shaders are on very high. Aside from that, in DF's video, those areas don't look very taxing.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

I'm not finding the PS4 difficult to use, just too slow. The speed at which I can get my PC on and running a game is about the same time. The alleged feature that lets the PS4 download updates while in standby just isn't there. And when you first get a game you still run into the problem of having to wait for it to install for entirely too long. And when you first get any of the consoles you have to waste your time tinkering with the settings, downloading massive updates and installing massive games. So yeah, consoles have become less plug-and-play. I'm not saying they are entirely inconvenient however, this is still the only major advantage that the consoles have.

Are you seriously telling me that a feature that I and countless other ps4 owners on neogaf alone have enabled and take advantage of doesnt exist ? Then please explain how my ps4 downloaded and installed updates for Destiny and The Order at 5am this week totally automatically while in rest mode if the feature doesn't exist ?
Again, the first time you insert a game disk in the ps4 it begins installing to the hard drive and you can start playing within about two minutes. Every ps4 disk-based game except Destiny works like this. Its called play-go. It comes with every single ps4. If you buy a game digitally before release it will usually pre-load.
Either you don't really have a ps4 and are making shit up to push an agenda or you really need to learn to use its features.

 

[Dredd97]

I'm not finding the PS4 difficult to use, just too slow. The speed at which I can get my PC on and running a game is about the same time. The alleged feature that lets the PS4 download updates while in standby just isn't there. And when you first get a game you still run into the problem of having to wait for it to install for entirely too long. And when you first get any of the consoles you have to waste your time tinkering with the settings, downloading massive updates and installing massive games. So yeah, consoles have become less plug-and-play. I'm not saying they are entirely inconvenient however, this is still the only major advantage that the consoles have.

then I suggest you go back and check your settings because mine has been doing just that for over a year

edit: And beaten lol...

 

[blastprocessor]

Lets be clear, though, the ps4 version currently holds a rock solid 30fps without dips. That requires a frame-rate well above 30fps on average. If it were unlocked I wonder what we'd see? With the 30fps cap it's impossible to know.

I'd like an unlocked version.

 

[giant_frying_pan]

As someone with a semi-decent PC, I'm happy that I didn't have to spend five hundred and ninety-nine US dollars on the PS4.

It's fine. Sony is doing a good job at offering a range of added value services that is better than raw power, in my opinion.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'd like an unlocked version.

But then people would just complain like tomb raider or saints row 4 and demand a locked 30 FPS because of 'judder'. What you see is what you get in the console space.

I never played Saints row 4. But Tomb Raider was pretty damn smooth IMO.

 

[Windom Earle]

Is gta5 really multi core optimised and is there any proof?

It is very much so. Does not run well on 2 cores without hyperthreading and benefits from i7. Here is an example from a police chase with my 3770k. Core usage is looking like that in pretty much alle situations: