Devil May Cry 4 SE: Vergil, Trish & Lady Playable, Release Date 18th of June

BadWolf said:
Is it just me or are they very much ignoring anything PG has come up with? It's like their games might as well not exist or anything they came up with within them.
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Is there really anything in Platinum's games that would bring something new and worthwhile to the series? Dodge Offset and Wicked Weaves wouldn't function all that well outside of Bayonetta's focus on preset combos, and the Devil Bringer / Quicksilver mechanics which already exist in the series are far more elegant implementations of in-battle QTEs and a time-slowing mechanism compared to Zandatsu and Witch/Hero Time. The MGR / Bayonetta parry input could be incorporated as a weaker alternative to Royal Guard, but it still might not organically complement the rest of the combat design; especially with DMC4's less aggressive enemies. And taking any more inspiration from PG's notoriously terrible minigames would be a less-than-commendable idea, especially since the dice sections of 4 were one of the most common complaints.

...maybe the manual sprint option in 4SE could vaguely be construed as something added in the wake of Beast Within and Ninja Run, but it's most likely a coincidence, due to being a fairly basic and obvious change.
 
PensivePen said:
Didn't he work on that weird Dragon's Dogma mobile/PSP spinoff? I don't know if something like that would require his full attention but he does seem to be credited as its director. Even that though has been out since some time in 2013.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB1g5BjTDH0

That couldn't have taken much of his time or effort.

TreIII said:
Time will tell, but I think it's safe to presume that Itsuno+Neo_G are content to continue going their own way, which is just as fine and admirable.
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InfiniteNine said:
Honestly Itsuno and Neo G are doing more technical combat than Platinum with the absence of intrusive QTEs, mini-games, and the like, so them taking more notes from PG would probably homogenize things a bit too much.
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It's wonderful that they are both pursuing different paths, should make the genre stronger and more varied.

TreIII said:
But who knows? Maybe Lady's "rocket-jump" could be construed as a bit of a shout out to Bayo+Kilgore doing similar.
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Isn't the rocket jump something she did in a DMC3 cutscene?

Golnei said:
Is there really anything in Platinum's games that would bring something new and worthwhile to the series? Dodge Offset and Wicked Weaves wouldn't function all that well outside of Bayonetta's focus on preset combos, and the Devil Bringer / Quicksilver mechanics which already exist in the series are far more elegant implementations of in-battle QTEs and a time-slowing mechanism compared to Zandatsu and Witch/Hero Time. The MGR / Bayonetta parry input could be incorporated as a weaker alternative to Royal Guard, but it still might not organically complement the rest of the combat design; especially with DMC4's less aggressive enemies. And taking any more inspiration from PG's notoriously terrible minigames would be a less-than-commendable idea, especially since the dice sections of 4 were one of the most common complaints.

...maybe the manual sprint option in 4SE could vaguely be construed as something added in the wake of Beast Within and Ninja Run, but it's most likely a coincidence, due to being a fairly basic and obvious change.
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Agreed. Don't want to crap on PG but they aren't exactly good at coming up with mechanics that I would like to see in other games. And generally speaking they seem to have quite the love affair with slow motion.

Dodge offset is interesting but it is more of a necessity due to how damage output works in Bayonetta, which is also why PKP is pretty much the best combo to use most of the time. Dodge offset is in MGR but it isn't very useful there aside from charging the pincer blades quicker since MGR doesn't lump most of the damage in a combo to the finisher like Bayo.
 
I tried to play DMC4 recently. Found it hard to get into after playing both Revengeance and DmC: Devil May Cry back-to-back beforehand. The devil trigger mechanic just seemed a bit useless. Charging it mid fight would drop your combo, and doing it in-between fights was tedious, and doing the charge mid-swing was super difficult, it was like having to parry in DS every sword swing, also movement and grappling felt a touch awkward, and there weren't too many combos available in the first 2 hours, everything felt repetitive.

Was I doing something wrong? Will DMC4:SE feel different? I loved both Revengeance and the DmC reboot, and felt like I was pretty good at them, this doesn't seem like a skill thing.
 
Roussow said:
I tried to play DMC4 recently. Found it hard to get into after playing both Revengeance and DmC: Devil May Cry back-to-back beforehand. The devil trigger mechanic just seemed a bit useless. Charging it mid fight would drop your combo, and doing it in-between fights was tedious, and doing the charge mid-swing was super difficult, it was like having to parry in DS every sword swing, also movement and grappling felt a touch awkward, and there weren't too many combos available in the first 2 hours, everything felt repetitive.

Was I doing something wrong?
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Yes.

That wasn't the devil trigger, that was Nero's exceed system and charging it manually is the wrong way to play. You get devil trigger later.

You also haven't unlocked nearly enough moves and upgrades at that point.

It's unreasonable to expect to get the hang of one of the deepest games to date in 2 hours.
 
Roussow said:
I tried to play DMC4 recently. Found it hard to get into after playing both Revengeance and DmC: Devil May Cry back-to-back beforehand. The devil trigger mechanic just seemed a bit useless. Charging it mid fight would drop your combo, and doing it in-between fights was tedious, and doing the charge mid-swing was super difficult, it was like having to parry in DS every sword swing, also movement and grappling felt a touch awkward, and there weren't too many combos available in the first 2 hours, everything felt repetitive.

Was I doing something wrong? Will DMC4:SE feel different? I loved both Revengeance and the DmC reboot, and felt like I was pretty good at them, this doesn't seem like a skill thing.
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You said you can't pull off the exceed system then say it's not a skill thing? lol
Yes you're doing it wrong. The DMC3 and 4 is more technical and skillful than revengence/DmC and skill is required if you want to pull off combos like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YdBxBOFpbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSuIIesIE

obligatory hell sloth is dead DMC3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BGp1an_PMw

GIT GUD
 
Roussow said:
I tried to play DMC4 recently. Found it hard to get into after playing both Revengeance and DmC: Devil May Cry back-to-back beforehand. The devil trigger mechanic just seemed a bit useless. Charging it mid fight would drop your combo, and doing it in-between fights was tedious, and doing the charge mid-swing was super difficult, it was like having to parry in DS every sword swing, also movement and grappling felt a touch awkward, and there weren't too many combos available in the first 2 hours, everything felt repetitive.

Was I doing something wrong? Will DMC4:SE feel different? I loved both Revengeance and the DmC reboot, and felt like I was pretty good at them, this doesn't seem like a skill thing.
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DMC is stricter. This is a skill thing, but it feels this way for everyone the first time they play a real DMC.

Watching these tutorials might help:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXHxdOZXRU0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqYvsutwgc4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFNnz29VFk

Granted, your options are limited at the start. I think they definitely could ramp up the skill acquisiton process (they are making adjustments to this in DMC4SE), but I think you'll need to change your approach to the game in general. Knowing when to lock-on versus not locking-on, just frame timing, buffering inputs and motions. These are things less important in those other games.

And what you're describing isn't the Devil Trigger (though he also gets his own Devil Trigger). It's the Exceed gauge. This is a unique system for Nero, which opens up once you have Max-ACT, Exceed levels 2+3, and some purchased Exceed moves. Basically, you're not going to feel like a god when you start playing. It's a gradual process. If you want to look cool in DMC, you have to earn it. Take your time with it and get used to the systems. Also, just plain get better at doing the Ex-Act. It just takes practice.

As for whether or not DMC4SE will feel different? For Nero and Dante, not substantively. Vergil seems massively overpowered, and looks to have easier inputs, so you might have more fun playing as him. Trish is a good beginner character with crowd control options, so that's also a potential good option.
 
You never manually charge Nero's sword mid combat. It is the very essence of playing it wrong. You have to learn how to time it in a swing as its core to the character. The timing for it isn't hard, it's towards the end of the swing where you have to press it (most people press it too early).

Now MAX EX timings are really difficult but you are nowhere there yet. For mobility make sure you have purchased Streak and Caliber.


As far as DMC4SE goes, its really Vergil who will feel different as he will be the fastest because of his mobility options.
 
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
I never got anywhere with MAX Act. I would practice for 5 minutes and then just play Dante.
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You don't need to hit MAX-Act every time, just go for EX-Act.

It's fairly lenient (pretty easy to practice it on just the first slash of the regular combo) and gives you access to EX moves. And eventually you will be surprised at how much you will get a MAX-Act by chance.

It's a brilliant mechanic.
 
Defuser said:
You said you can't pull off the exceed system then say it's not a skill thing? lol
Yes you're doing it wrong. The DMC3 and 4 is more technical and skillful than revengence/DmC and skill is required if you want to pull off combos like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YdBxBOFpbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSuIIesIE

obligatory hell sloth is dead DMC3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BGp1an_PMw

GIT GUD
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Man, that hell sloth vid really makes me want Cerberus, Agni & Rudra and Nevan back at some point, or just weapon inspired by them like Gilgamesh is inspired by Beowulf and Ifrit but at the same time I also want new weapons so I wouldn't mind if they come back as DLC weapons
 
EX-MAXing something is really up there in terms of amazing feedbacks I've experienced in a game. the visual effects, the sound, knowing you're going to unleash something huge on your next attack... incredible.
 
Man playing through DMC3 again after so long is magical. I've never seen SSS so often in my life though, but that might just be me playing a bunch of DMC games lately.
 
GuardianE said:
DMC is stricter. This is a skill thing, but it feels this way for everyone the first time they play a real DMC...
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I expected at least an obligatory git gud post, but something like this is much more helpful, thanks these tips. Reading my initial post, I realize I was contradictory with my skill quote, more accurately I meant I was having a much more difficult time learning how to play DMC4 compared to the other two games I mentioned, I didn't even have this much trouble with Bayonetta. The fact that lock on slows you to a walk was really jarring, but I guess it's something you should only use at specific points, and not auto-lock every enemy you fight -- like you may as well have in other games.

How critical to success is the exceed system / Ex-Act? Is it something you can ignore? -- I used the comparison to parrying in DS for a reason, because playing through those games, Parrying is not essential at all, it's great if you want to use it, but non-essential. It certainly is a skill thing, but it's totally unlike any other system I've used in a character action game, it's just something I don't know whether I'd be able to get used to it. Until then, I might wait until the Special Edition is out, and here impressions first, but if it's as good as it seems i might commit the time to playing it properly.
 
Roussow said:
I expected at least an obligatory git gud post, but something like this is much more helpful, thanks these tips. Reading my initial post, I realize I was contradictory with my skill quote, more accurately I meant I was having a much more difficult time learning how to play DMC4 compared to the other two games I mentioned, I didn't even have this much trouble with Bayonetta. The fact that lock on slows you to a walk was really jarring, but I guess it's something you should only use at specific points, and not auto-lock every enemy you fight -- like you may as well have in other games.

How critical to success is the exceed system / Ex-Act? Is it something you can ignore? -- I used the comparison to parrying in DS for a reason, because playing through those games, Parrying is not essential at all, it's great if you want to use it, but non-essential. It certainly is a skill thing, but it's totally unlike any other system I've used in a character action game, it's just something I don't know whether I'd be able to get used to it. Until then, I might wait until the Special Edition is out, and here impressions first, but if it's as good as it seems i might commit the time to playing it properly.
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Ex-Act isn't critical, I wouldn't even suggest focusing on it extensively your first time through with Nero. There is a reason why you have to unlock a lot of the stuff relating to Exceed in the first place. However, I do want to note that the important thing is that Exceed is FUN. Like really, really fun once your start getting the hang of it. Probably one of the best systems I've ever dealt with in a game like this.

So my advice is start with the basics, learning the stinger and launcher type moves, understanding the buster/grabbing enemies. Once you have the basics down pretty well, then start playing around with timing your Exceed throttling
 
Roussow said:
How critical to success is the exceed system / Ex-Act? Is it something you can ignore? -- I used the comparison to parrying in DS for a reason, because playing through those games, Parrying is not essential at all, it's great if you want to use it, but non-essential. It certainly is a skill thing, but it's totally unlike any other system I've used in a character action game, it's just something I don't know whether I'd be able to get used to it. Until then, I might wait until the Special Edition is out, and here impressions first, but if it's as good as it seems i might commit the time to playing it properly.
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You can finish the game fine without it but not using the Exceed system will reduce both your damage output with Nero and the fun you will have playing the character.

See if this thread helps with Exceed.:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/928376-devil-may-cry-4/44465936

Just load up the game and play it, if all you did was play for 2 hours then you were playing with a very a bare bones character. There is much to unlock and learn.

You should at least finish the game once before trying to delve deep into specific mechanics.

Also of note with Nero is that his gun is utilized in a different way than usual. Instead of just firing it is preferred to be constantly charging it for a Charge Shot while fighting with the sword (Charge Shot 3 is a killer move). A lot of people remap the gun button with Nero to a more comfortable position so they can easily hold and charge while engaging in combat.
 
just keep remembering to press L2 at the end of every sword animation. just try it every time, if you're not getting it, keep going for it and adjusting slightly. practicing with just the first slash is very useful. just L2 at the end of the swipe.

once you get the hang of it the mechanic is really rewarding and satisfying and keeps you in a really nice addictive groove.
 
all of this talk is making me hope for Dante buffs.

Right now I feel he requires significantly higher skill/works you harder in exchange for the same results.
 
yarrmateys said:
all of this talk is making me hope for Dante buffs.

Right now I feel he requires significantly higher skill/works you harder in exchange for the same results.
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They might just keep it that way since that's what differentiates him from other characters in the game and other games.

Dante - Complex up the wazoo
Nero - Accessible
Vergil - Seems to be the middle ground between Dante's complexity and Nero's accessibility
Trish - Beginner friendly
Lady - no clue
 
I'm conflicted on the idea of Vergil coming back for DMC5. On one hand, fuck yeah it's Vergil, on the other hand, I can't think of a way for him to come back without it feeling like fanfiction, considering everything points to him being deader than dead.
 
Unit24 said:
I'm conflicted on the idea of Vergil coming back for DMC5. On one hand, fuck yeah it's Vergil, on the other hand, I can't think of a way for him to come back without it feeling like fanfiction, considering everything points to him being deader than dead.
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Nelo Angelo was a duplicate Vergil created by Mundus

problem solved
 
paolo11 said:
Off topic, how do you master jump cancel in DMC 3 and when is the best time to do that? When you max all skills?
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I started with practicing Killer Bee jump cancels as soon as I got Beowulf, and worked my way from there, practicing with Cerberus (Swing is a pretty good one to start with) and beyond.
 
BadWolf said:
You can finish the game fine without it but not using the Exceed system will reduce both your damage output with Nero and the fun you will have playing the character.

See if this thread helps with Exceed.: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/928376-devil-may-cry-4/44465936
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Thanks for that link to that thread, super helpful, I understand why there isn't a tutorial as deep as that in game -- but for new player it's greatly appreciated. Now to work on cancelling out of and into combos!

Might get myself a copy of the HD collection, before I get the special edition of 4. Seems like a good place to start (beyond the reboot).
 
Exceed isn't required for DMC4 but you should always be attempting to pull off an EX after every swing. There is no reason not to. Eventually you will get lucky and your fingers start remembering it when you get it right. Make sure the volume is set to a good enough level where you can hear the sound effect and the EX rev.

And special moves get dramatically buffed by EX so you want to use an EX charge on Streak, Calibur, Shuffle, Split and High Roller. Regular attacks get minimal changes with EX.
 
I know you guys already talked about this but regarding (big spoiler)
Nero's Mom
I honestly don't think we'll see anything else in Vergil's ending cutscene. IIRC Greg only said that we will see one hint about series canon in 4SE and I think that was it.
 
BadWolf said:
They might just keep it that way since that's what differentiates him from other characters in the game and other games.

Dante - Complex up the wazoo
Nero - Accessible
Vergil - Seems to be the middle ground between Dante's complexity and Nero's accessibility
Trish - Beginner friendly
Lady - no clue
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I thought Lady was the beginner friendly character. I'm not completely sure on that though.
 
Reminder the Chou Kaigi event starts in a few hours.

a6691519f8.jpg
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Defuser said:
You said you can't pull off the exceed system then say it's not a skill thing? lol
Yes you're doing it wrong. The DMC3 and 4 is more technical and skillful than revengence/DmC and skill is required if you want to pull off combos like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YdBxBOFpbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSuIIesIE

obligatory hell sloth is dead DMC3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BGp1an_PMw

GIT GUD
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Even then I still put DmC relativley equal to DMC3.
AlfredX1990 said:
IIRC Trish in DMC2 controls similar to DMC1 Dante so it would make sense her being the most fun but that combo vid is not good, I don't see where you are getting that DMC2 has better combat than DMC1
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Because based on my own experience of all those games , DMC2 offers more than DMC1. After spending time playing both, DMC2 is more complex and fun to play/be stylish than DMC1. The gameplay then lead into Styles for Dante.

BadWolf said:
They might just keep it that way since that's what differentiates him from other characters in the game and other games.

Dante - Complex up the wazoo
Nero - Accessible
Vergil - Seems to be the middle ground between Dante's complexity and Nero's accessibility
Trish - Beginner friendly
Lady - no clue
Click to expand...

Lady seems beginner friendly. Just fire everywhere.
 
Hard to say how Lady/Trish will be in traditional DMD difficulty. LDK mode isn't exactly the best test of strength especially with stuff like unlimited gauges activated.

Vergil seemed completely broken in LDK mode but in standard mode he's far more in line with the rest. Still OP but not "I am just going to mash buttons and wipe out everything on the screen" good.


Trish will be fine. She is basically just a standard DMC character with a few gimmicks and some extra crowd control.

Lady is a character that has a lot of wide AOE moves but many of them require a lot of charge time or requires a stationary position (a few of Kalina Ann moves for example). Even against fodder enemies she was getting hit out of her stuff. Hard to know how she will stack up in a room full of Angelos with low gauge.
 
Unit24 said:
I'm conflicted on the idea of Vergil coming back for DMC5. On one hand, fuck yeah it's Vergil, on the other hand, I can't think of a way for him to come back without it feeling like fanfiction, considering everything points to him being deader than dead.
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Its either going to feel like fanfiction or be a simple explanation for him to come back, really i wouldn't worry about it :P
Think like a Castlevania character coming back.
limitless ways to revive Vergil that would "fit" within the universe: Nelo Angelo was not the real Vergil, his soul escapes at the last moment and finds a new body, another powerful being revives him, he is killed but escapes hell GoW/AS style, uses a golden orb, is cloned, devised a plan to revive himself in case he died somehow, was using Mundus, etc.
 
Mecha said:
Looks like Capcom is making a Sengoku Basara vs Devil May Cry stage play.
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Looks like Capcom really is serious about marketing DMC to the BASARA demographic. The BASARA stage plays always do well.

And hey, if possible, maybe it'll lead to more collabs in this vein.

*starts hoping for a DMC vs. BASARA fighting game*

Azure J said:
So is everyone else getting kicked out because of "peak usage" going on?
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You'll also get kicked out if a Premium user wants in.
 
TreIII said:
Looks like Capcom really is serious about marketing DMC to the BASARA demographic. The BASARA stage plays always do well.

And hey, if possible, maybe it'll lead to more collabs in this vein.

*starts hoping for a DMC vs. BASARA fighting game*



You'll also get kicked out if a Premium user wants in.
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Was hoping for some crossover DLC, that could have made the SB stream less boring.
 
Mecha said:
Was hoping for some crossover DLC, that could have made the SB stream less boring.
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At least on the SB side, all of the collab DLC has already been announced (NJPW and Tales were already shown, and the RE/SF/MonHun stuff comes later).

So, if there's going to be any collab DLC, it may be on the DMC side this time around.
 
I just paid roughly five bones to get the premium account for month. Didn't like the feeling of being kicked out every few seconds.
 
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