AP: NFL finds it probable that Patriots deliberately deflated balls

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Cybit said:
I think your head is pretty hard in the sand at this point.
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I mean my head probably is, but is there any proof that Brady broke some of the rules people are implying? Tampering with the footballs is wrong and he should be fined but unless there is proof he asked for them under 12.5 psi I don't think a suspension is worthy.
 
Quotient said:
I am leaning more towards "they had no evidence". The report seems to be making assumptions that Brady knew, without any evidence (i.e. text messages, emails, etc).

I will clarify that i haven't read the report and did a quick glance of the executive summary. Though i can say one thing with certainty, Wells made a lot of money looking into the air pressure of footballls.
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They have the text messages from people receiving them; but not the ones from Brady because Brady refused to provide his phone to the investigators.

MLCodest said:
I mean my head probably is, but is there any proof that Brady broke some of the rules people are implying? Tampering with the footballs is wrong and he should be fined but unless there is proof he asked for them under 12.5 psi I don't think a suspension is worthy.
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Pretty strong evidence. The texts directly reference Tom repeatedly having talked to them and told them what to do, as well as getting gifts from Brady. But, without Brady cooperating, they can't confirm it.
 
Cybit said:
They have the text messages from people receiving them; but not the ones from Brady because Brady refused to provide his phone to the investigators.



Pretty strong evidence. The texts directly reference Tom repeatedly having talked to them and told them what to do, as well as getting gifts from Brady. But, without Brady cooperating, they can't confirm it.
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Didn't wanna give them Gisele nudes is probably the reason.
 
rjc571 said:
Which, as the report acknowledges, is consistent with the amount of deflation one would expect to occur naturally according to the Ideal Gas Law.
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the report says exactly the opposite

According to our scientific consultants, however, the reduction in pressure of the Patriots game balls cannot be explained completely by basic scientific principles, such as the Ideal Gas Law, based on the circumstances and conditions likely to have been present on the day of the AFC Championship Game. In addition, the average pressure drop of the Patriots game balls exceeded the average pressure drop of the Colts balls by 10 0.45 to 1.02 psi, depending on various possible assumptions regarding the gauges used, and assuming an initial pressure of 12.5 psi for the Patriots balls and 13.0 psi for the Colts balls
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Cybit said:
They have the text messages from people receiving them; but not the ones from Brady because Brady refused to provide his phone to the investigators.



Pretty strong evidence. The texts directly reference Tom repeatedly having talked to them and told them what to do, as well as getting gifts from Brady. But, without Brady cooperating, they can't confirm it.
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So they have text messages Tom sent to the attendants instructing them to lower pressure (or along those lines). That is pretty damning evidence. Do you mind pointing to where in the report this can be found.
 
sangreal said:
the report says exactly the opposite
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Then they're directly contradicting the readings which they published in the report.
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The Pats balls were all within 1.6 of the limit when measured by Prioleau.

Also notice how the report is relying on the assumption that the Pats balls were all originally 12.5, which is completely unlikely as the balls were never measured in the first place.
 
Cybit said:
They have the text messages from people receiving them; but not the ones from Brady because Brady refused to provide his phone to the investigators.



Pretty strong evidence. The texts directly reference Tom repeatedly having talked to them and told them what to do, as well as getting gifts from Brady. But, without Brady cooperating, they can't confirm it.
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I may be wrong but I don't think it's ever stated in the report that Brady wanted them at an illegal level though. He should be punished for wanted them tampered with but without evidence I don't think anyone can assume he wanted them under legal limit.
 
This was the most likeLy explanation all along After thr possibility that they supplied deliberately underinflated balls from the beginning.

Any details on the investigation other than what we already knew?

More probable than not sure... but if other explanations were not reasonably exhausted.. meh

Edit: texts fROM tom would certainly be strong evidence. If he knew about and outright lied... That is disappointing for sure.
 
MLCodest said:
I may be wrong but I don't think it's ever stated in the report that Brady wanted them at an illegal level though. He should be punished for wanted them tampered with but without evidence I don't think anyone can assume he wanted them under legal limit.
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Page 13 and 14. He absolutely wanted them at illegal levels. Why else would you "deflate" them?

Page 17 is the more damning of Brady part, though. The only reason they can't get texts from Tom is because he refused to provide his phone. No amount of rationalizing gets you around that.
 
DragonSworne said:
The only reason why Ravens lost.
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Yeah, the Patriots have to find something advantage to give them the upper hand at any cost. In the Ravens game and the Colts game (I think?), they were using the ineligible receiver ploy (now banned) and on top of that, they were using deflated balls. Hell, they probably would have cheated in the Superbowl if they weren't in national spotlight due to Deflategate. You have to wonder if the Ravens would have won considering how close that game was and if they didn't catch them off guard with their now banned "tactics".

Oh well, it's clear they didn't need to cheat because they were clearly a talented team. The fact is that they did anyway, and whoever that was involved should be punished accordingly. Belichick/Brady will always be one of the greatest duos of all team, but this in addition to Spygate will always be the shadows over that legacy.
 
Cybit said:
They have the text messages from people receiving them; but not the ones from Brady because Brady refused to provide his phone to the investigators.
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Brady shouldn't give his phone to investigators. The NFLPA attorneys definitely coached him on that. These assistants are not in any Union (that I know of?), and so there's a lot more pressure on them to disclose that. The PA would definitely tell their members "absolutely not, do not give your phone to anybody." It's one thing if it's a criminal case or investigation, it's another thing if it's about footballs being 1 PSI below the league minimum.

I actually think the NFL won't be able to suspend Brady in a way that the NFLPA won't be able to reverse. The report, from the summaries I've seen (haven't read it, just seen the highlights), don't have enough on Brady for something that the NFLPA can't counter. Plenty for fans to draw their own conclusions, but not enough to give a sure suspension.

The team can be charged with tampering footballs, and get a $25k fine, because those two guys are employees of the team. Also, the team can suspend Brady w/ pay (similar to what Adrian Peterson got with Minnesota last year) BUt... it's tough for the league to stick Brady with a suspension when the report is so wishy washy and absent of actual evidence aside from (seemingly) these two guys joking about giving Brady beachballs and rugby balls (which are over inflated)...
 
Cybit said:
Page 13 and 14. He absolutely wanted them at illegal levels. Why else would you "deflate" them?

Page 17 is the more damning of Brady part, though. The only reason they can't get texts from Tom is because he refused to provide his phone. No amount of rationalizing gets you around that.
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If the balls were overinflated, or at the higher end of the spectrum, then your interpretation is wrong.

Who would Tom text? If they have the phones of two of the guys, who they imply are the deflators, why would they need Tom's phone to find damning evidence?
 
When interviewed, Brady claimed that, prior to the events surrounding the AFC Championship Game, he did not know McNally‟s name or anything about McNally‟s game-day responsibilities, including whether McNally had any responsibilities relating to game balls or the game officials. When asked specifically whether he had spoken with Jastremski about McNally on the night of the Jets game, he stated: “I didn‟t know who Jim McNally was so I find it hard to believe I could bring that up.” On this point, Brady‟s statement is inconsistent with Jastremski‟s statements that Brady knew McNally and made a comment about McNally during the Jets game when complaining about the game balls.
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Oops.
 
braves01 said:
I'm saying it seems like a de minimis violation that frustrated people are clinging to in order to rationalize how the Patriots continue to beat them year after year, instead of the obvious reasons like having better personnel. The taped practices seem like a much bigger deal than this.
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No, we know they're a well run organization and that's why they win. What we're trying to figure out is why they would continue to embarrass themselves by breaking little rules like this.
 
This is more crooked than the NBA betting scandals.

I honestly take solace in knowing that everyone will look back on there championships with doubt that they earned any of them.
 
John Jastremski‟s cell phone records reflect that he stayed in close contact with both McNally and Brady in the days following the AFC Championship Game. All three claimed during their interviews with us that their communications did not involve (or only briefly touched on) the deflation issues. The sequence, length and timing of the conversations and text message exchanges raise questions concerning the plausibility of these claims.
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Elsewhere, the report states they had to recover the text messages with forensic tools.
 
Liquidsnake said:
This is more crooked than the NBA betting scandals.

I honestly take solace in knowing that everyone will look back on there championships with doubt that they earned any of them.
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Given that they don't keep records and sometimes don't even measure the balls I'm thinking this is a rule no one (on any team) took too seriously and did nothing more than a feel check to see if they needed to be pumped up or not.
 
At this point, it doesn't even matter if Patriots fans admit the truth. Let them continue to be the delusional fools that they are portraying themselves to be, for the most part.

We all know the Patriots cheated again. We also know that the NFL won't do anything significant about it, if the timing is any indication. Which brings me to what I think the real issue is here: disproportionality. The Patriots have been caught cheating twice. If this were the NCAA, they would be sanctioned, have their championship titles voided in the offending seasons, have all draft picks from rounds 1-3 voided for two seasons, and the head coach & star player would be suspended for the year. And the case would've been wrapped up three months ago. Hell, if this were literally any other team getting caught, the NFL would've treated this case very differently.

But because it's the Patriots and Robert Kraft, absolutely nothing will come of any of this, which makes this an even bigger joke when discussing the ability of the NFL to govern itself. Here, we have a case of footballs being deflated intentionally, and we have more details and competency within the investigation than they had with the Ray Rice case, which involved a widely-circulated and publicly available video tape of a player hitting his wife. And yet, there will be have been more punishment levied at Rice than there ever will be of the league's favorite perpetual cheaters.

What a joke.
 
Report says that all balls were regulation at the start of the second half... where that Patriots trounced the Colts with 28 unanswered points. This seems like a non-issue to me.
 
cdyhybrid said:
Pats have a history of cheating. Donaghy only got caught once (partially because the NBA wasn't dumb enough to allow a cheater to continue being involved with the sport, unlike the NFL).
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I still think the NBA scandal put the integrity of the game in far more doubt than deflated footballs or filming sidelines.
 
skylenorman said:
Report says that all balls were regulation at the start of the second half... where that Patriots trounced the Colts with 28 unanswered points. This seems like a non-issue to me.
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They only deflated the balls against the Colts and not against the Ravens the week before, a game they won by three points after coming back from a 14 point deficit?

Sure, it made no difference.

Cheaters. Brady and Belichick. The whole organization.

Shameful, cheating disgraces to football. Ban them all and strip them of their ill-gotten glory relics!
 
Wait, joke Pats fans are still denying this happened?

Fuckin lol.

You all need to creep on the "yeah they cheated but it didn't affect the outcome" bandwagon real quick.
 
I don't think anyone is surprised that the Patriots cheated. You could tell from Brady's Lance Armstrong performance when he denied knowing anything.
 
Patriots7 said:
If the balls were overinflated, or at the higher end of the spectrum, then your interpretation is wrong.

Who would Tom text? If they have the phones of two of the guys, who they imply are the deflators, why would they need Tom's phone to find damning evidence?
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Except when they did check the balls in the Indianapolis game - they were underinflated, and as the giant Appendix proved, there is no scientific basis for having underwent that much "natural deflation". Basically BB's press conference was faulty science and/or complete lying.

The Albatross said:
Brady shouldn't give his phone to investigators. The NFLPA attorneys definitely coached him on that. These assistants are not in any Union (that I know of?), and so there's a lot more pressure on them to disclose that. The PA would definitely tell their members "absolutely not, do not give your phone to anybody." It's one thing if it's a criminal case or investigation, it's another thing if it's about footballs being 1 PSI below the league minimum.

I actually think the NFL won't be able to suspend Brady in a way that the NFLPA won't be able to reverse. The report, from the summaries I've seen (haven't read it, just seen the highlights), don't have enough on Brady for something that the NFLPA can't counter. Plenty for fans to draw their own conclusions, but not enough to give a sure suspension.

The team can be charged with tampering footballs, and get a $25k fine, because those two guys are employees of the team. Also, the team can suspend Brady w/ pay (similar to what Adrian Peterson got with Minnesota last year) BUt... it's tough for the league to stick Brady with a suspension when the report is so wishy washy and absent of actual evidence aside from (seemingly) these two guys joking about giving Brady beachballs and rugby balls (which are over inflated)...
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If Brady doesn't get hit hard; all hell will break loose. The NFLPA probably won't step in at this point. Remember, the NFLPA agreed under the CBA to let punishments be dealt with by Goodell. Goodell has complete free reign for punishment per the CBA when it comes to something like this.

That said, we sort of know Goodell is all about his cronies (see taping scandal, Ray Rice's initial punishment, etc) - so they aren't going to get touched beyond a fine for Brady.
 
Additional evidence of Brady‟s awareness includes a material increase in the frequency of telephone and text communications between Brady and Jastremski shortly after suspicions of ball tampering became public on January 19 suggests that Brady was closely monitoring Jastremski. After not communicating by telephone or text for more than six months (according to data retrieved from Jastremski‟s cell phone), Brady and Jastremski spoke twice by telephone on January 19 (calls lasting a total of 25 minutes and 2 seconds), twice on January 20 (calls lasting a total of 9 minutes and 55 seconds) and twice on January 21 (calls lasting a total of 20 minutes and 52 seconds) before Jastremski surrendered his cell phone to the Patriots later that day for forensic imaging. These calls included conversations relatively early during the mornings of January 19 (7:26 a.m. for 13 minutes and 4 seconds), January 20 (8:22 a.m. for 6 minutes and 21 seconds) and January 21 (7:38 a.m. for 13 minutes and 47 seconds). Brady also took the unprecedented step of inviting Jastremski to the QB room in Gillette Stadium on January 19 for the first and only time that Jastremski can recall during his twenty-year career with the Patriots
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Brady and Jastremski had no contact by cell phone between July 2014 and January 19, 2015, i.e. during the season and playoffs, then had multiple conversations over the course of multiple days after the AFCCG, yet Jastremski claims they just joked around a bit and discussed the preparations for the Super Bowl but barely, if ever, discussed the deflated Patriots balls story which had hit the media at that time. Uh-huh, sure.
 
Wow looks like what we all knew. All their championships are tainted in one way or another. I could care less about their titles now.
 
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