The thing I'm not sure about, are Pats fans holding on to some alternate reconstruction of the events (which would have to include mind control) that doesn't conclude Tom Brady is a cheat and a liar, or are they just completely willing to excuse both acts? Those are really the only 2 options at this point......
AP: NFL finds it probable that Patriots deliberately deflated balls
- Thread starter chadskin
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Nah.
The Seahawks are going through a huge amount of scrutiny for drafting Frank Clark in the second round of the Draft. And they deserve every bit of it. Not just for drafting Clark in the first place (which I actually have no problem with in a vacuum, but the Hawks HAD to expect this kind of backlash given what has occurred in the last year regarding domestic abusers in the NFL), but also how they are currently handling the situation. As well as the message it sends to fans that the NFL in general doesn't really give a fuck about DV if it gets in the way of football shit.
The NFL does not give a shit about players and their crimes. As long as a player can still play no one in the NFL gives a damn what they have done.
prag16
Banned
Whether or not it's a criminal investigation is immaterial. The NFL makes the rules. He's not REQUIRED to give them his cell phone records. But since he did not cooperate with the investigation, there are consequences. This isn't that hard to understand.
The New England Patriots are a pretty cool guy who shot aleins and deflated a balls
If Tommy did it, I'd hope he'd have the decency to apologize and take his punishment with some level of integrity. I'd be pretty disappointed in him and upset that he didn't just own up to it from the get-go.
But I'm not willing to call him a cheat or a liar until we get a definitive answer from him.
I know, I agree. What I have a problem with mostly, is all the grandstanding, platitudes, and pretentiousness being displayed by the Hawks & the NFL right now.
Firstly, they brought this shit on themselves by saying they follow a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to employing domestic abusers, then followed that up by drafting one in the second round. Then, they followed that up by saying they did their "due diligence" on Clark's particular case, when everyone fucking knows that they did no such thing. Now, journalists are having a frenzy, going hard in the paint just to prove the Hawks to be liars. Which they are.
They could've avoided this mess by A) Not drafting Clark, or B) Just saying "We feel Clark deserves a second chance, and are willing to forgive his earlier transgressions." We still would've seen articles about how the Hawks & the NFL are DV enablers, but it wouldn't be as wild as it is right now. But because they pretended that they give a shit about DV more than they actually do, they're feeling this heat as a result.
EDIT: Point is, let's just get all the bullshit pretentions out the way, and have the NFL admit it doesn't really care.
Anyways, this is off-topic.
You wouldn't call him a cheat or a liar if he gave you a definitive answer anyways.
Acerac
Banned
As always, the best part of the debate are the clear sides that form. On one end, you have pats fans. On the other, you have nearly everyone else. Not to say there aren't exceptions to the rule, but geez, the fact that the lines are so clearly drawn in most circumstances is ridiculously telling.
Perhaps everyone is just jealous. I think that's likely it.
Perhaps everyone is just jealous. I think that's likely it.
I'm a Seahawks fan and I think they handled it poorly and I emailed the organization to express my disappointment and disgust.
Because I don't let sports loyalty warp reality.
If Goodell had the testicular fortitude, he would be punishing the entire Patriots organization, not just Tom. The cheating is systemic, and they've been caught twice.
All four titles are not only in doubt, but it hurts me even more that we didn't run the fucking football on the 1-yd line. The Patriots, all things considered, don't deserve THAT particular trophy.
Word.
All four titles are not only in doubt, but it hurts me even more that we didn't run the fucking football on the 1-yd line. The Patriots, all things considered, don't deserve THAT particular trophy.
Word.
Acerac
Banned
Buahahahaha
Until he admits he cheated, I won't believe it.
*Watches him withhold info*
Totally the behavior of a man with nothing to hide.
Honestly if it weren't for your name, I'd think your post was a parody. As is, I'm not sure what to think.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Im glad they didn't run it
...because you know me so well?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
it's just how I show it's something I see from someone else.
As in, not my words, or something like that.
If only Kraft kept Tebow, then we would have Jesus on our side!
timetokill
Banned
I love that Bruschi bascially incriminated Brady further on that ESPN bit. So fucking funny.
Patriots7
Member
(Today, 09:56 AM)
We're gonna see you in this very thread (or a new one) on Monday or Tuesday, saying how the NFL doesn't have the right to do this, and how you can't wait for Brady to appeal and win, and how everyone's out to get Tommy and the Patriots because we're all jealous of success.
I guarantee it.
If I learned anything from how ESPN is covering this, as well as how they ended up canning Bill Simmons, it's that ESPN is full of apologists and cronies.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Are you guys mad
Acerac
Banned
Gnashing my teeth and pulling out my hair as we speak.
Megalosaro
Banned
What... ESPN has been one of the Patriots harshest critics on the subject. They had no qualms leaking out stuff and condemning the patriots.
Teddy Bruschi, tho.
I am a Patriots fan. I am a TB12 fan. I've never denied either.
Again, I'm perfectly fine accepting he cheated and lied. I'll add to the derision and contempt against his actions. I just want to hear definitively what happened before I start jumping to conclusions.
Acerac
Banned
You want to hear it from Brady's mouth. He ain't gonna admit it, no matter how sure it is that he's guilty. I feel you understand this.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I think he might admit something.
Admit small amount of wrongdoing, say that mistakes were made and he regrets this happening. Accept the punishment and move on.
Fastest way this blows over.
ViperVisor
Member
In Baseball a hitter or pitcher gets a week or 2 for illegal manipulation of bat or ball.
But when that happens they don't usually compound the violation with denying any knowledge or hardly cooperating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corked_bat
Brady situation isn't a flagrant advantage on the field but it is a obvious premeditated system he was involved in to do and possible conspiracy to cover up after the fact.
But when that happens they don't usually compound the violation with denying any knowledge or hardly cooperating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corked_bat
Brady situation isn't a flagrant advantage on the field but it is a obvious premeditated system he was involved in to do and possible conspiracy to cover up after the fact.
Megalosaro
Banned
My gut reaction is he more probably-than-not was involved at least in some fashion and it would be preferable if he came out and admitted it or not lied. But I could see why he would. I have my own questions about the Wells Report (I read the entire thing Wednesday and Thursday) and I think a lot of those text messages are taken out of context. There are some odd and concerning things in there. Really, the report was a pretty fascinating read. Some assumptions Wells made were weird for sure though.
Even if something did happen though I just don't what the big deal is. I know that comment will get shit, but deflated balls is NOT a big deal. Fine worthy, sure. But look into your hearts and you'll see this is the same thing. The only advantage this gave Brady was personal comfort and perhaps a psychological benefit, that's it. Not a big fucking deal. I'm willing to take a two game suspension to make placate the public, anymore than that and I'll be pretty pissed. Punish him for whatever wrong doing and move the fuck on. People will find something else to hate the Patriots for eventually anyway. Just comes with the territory.
Am I disappointed in Brady? Maybe a little because of any potential lies he told. But I'm willing to forgive him.
Even if something did happen though I just don't what the big deal is. I know that comment will get shit, but deflated balls is NOT a big deal. Fine worthy, sure. But look into your hearts and you'll see this is the same thing. The only advantage this gave Brady was personal comfort and perhaps a psychological benefit, that's it. Not a big fucking deal. I'm willing to take a two game suspension to make placate the public, anymore than that and I'll be pretty pissed. Punish him for whatever wrong doing and move the fuck on. People will find something else to hate the Patriots for eventually anyway. Just comes with the territory.
Am I disappointed in Brady? Maybe a little because of any potential lies he told. But I'm willing to forgive him.
The big deal is the precedent that Tom and the Patriots have set: They have been caught cheating twice, and regardless of punishment, they will probably cheat again. The second offense that they find themselves under scrutiny for at the moment, sends the message to the league and its fans that they don't actually care about their perception & image, or the league's perception and image, and are going to cheat however and whenever they please. It doesn't matter whether or not it had a major impact on the games they played (besides, I'm sure that's a slippery slope that you don't want to actually get into). The fact that they've been caught cheating AGAIN after a Super Bowl run, after being caught cheating BEFORE following a previous Super Bowl run, is enough to be outraged about. Because the Patriots and their fans think they are above the law. Above reproach. Every time someone calls them out, they like to point to other teams who may or may not have cheated as an attempt to exonerate themselves of any wrongdoing.
If we're being completely honest, the Patriots have essentially proven that they don't care about their own legacy, while pretending to come off as innocent good guys. At least the Raiders have embraced being the heel. What makes this situation so bad, is that Tom & Co. are going out of their way to act like they are being persecuted for their fuck-ups.
That's why people are upset over all of this. Not because the cheating was actually meaningful... in fact, that makes it worse. If you don't have to cheat, why the fuck are you cheating?
Link
The Autumn Wind
This is also coming off the whole eligible-ineligible receiver incident, which while not technically cheating, surely went against the spirit of the rule, if not the letter of the rule.
Also, I'm a New York sports fan, so I regularly hate and criticize almost everything my teams do.
Also, I'm a New York sports fan, so I regularly hate and criticize almost everything my teams do.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
what were your thoughts on the patriots before all of this
Unknown Soldier
Member
Vicetrailia
Banned
Whelp, Brady must be punished now. Good luck.
Are you sure you aren't a Ravens fan?
People just mad that Bill knows the rulebook better than the refs or the league.
Doesn't having pass plays entirely designed to draw pass interference go against "the spirit of the rule"? Who gives a shit though, not illegal until the rule is changed.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Which it was. Almost immediately.
Ya that rule was, but I was referring to PI draw plays and the fact that PI is at the spot rather than 15 yd which I think it should be.
Link
The Autumn Wind
That's a tough one, because what would be stopping a CB from just tackling a wide receiver that has a step on him on downfield passes?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Have two degrees of PI.
have egregious PI like pulling down a receiver put the ball on the spot, or some form of it.
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
Yeah let's add judgement calls. Great idea!
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I think the PI call has an appropriate punishment, but that it absolutely needs to be reviewable.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Would make it a lot easier to see when players take a dive.
Make it kind of like a clear path foul in basketball. If you interfere with a receiver but the defense is behind the play, make it 15 or the spot, whichever is closer. If the receiver beats everyone on the defense and is interfered with, make it an automatic spot foul.
Still a judgment call, but at least there's some semblance of delineation beyond the severity of contact.
Still a judgment call, but at least there's some semblance of delineation beyond the severity of contact.
ViperVisor
Member
Pass interference is less than 1 a game on avg. And some end up being declined.
Only about 33% are key penalties of giving teams a new set of downs because it was 3rd or 4th down play.
This is something that is needed to cut down on the guessing refs seem to do at the goal line.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...-wish-nfl-to-research-adding-end-zone-cameras
Only about 33% are key penalties of giving teams a new set of downs because it was 3rd or 4th down play.
This is something that is needed to cut down on the guessing refs seem to do at the goal line.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...-wish-nfl-to-research-adding-end-zone-cameras
We're on the same page. No one would care about this infraction in the vast majority of cases. It's only because this is New England that this has become a story.
The difference for us is, I think that proves the infraction isn't important. We care about PEDs regardless of the situation; PSI manipulation? Not so much.
So because we don't pay attention to losing/non-Patriots teams when they cheat (which is untrue, considering what happened to the Falcons), means this infraction is meaningless?
Wat?
I am specifically talking about illegally manipulating footballs. As you pointed out, even something as benign as pumping in crowd noise or communicating via text messages were reported on. But no one cared that footballs were tampered with in the Vikings/Panthers game in November. It was a non story.
In other violations, we care no matter who committed the infraction. But with football tampering, we only care when it's the Patriots.
CaptainofIndustry
Member
Brady needs to be suspended for all of next year.
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