The Lamonster
Member
I've never backed a kickstarter before. If I pledge $100 will I definitely get the game on or before launch?
Koji Igarashi Kickstarts Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (2.5D, backdash, 2018)
- Thread starter PranooY
- Start date
I've never backed a kickstarter before. If I pledge $100 will I definitely get the game on or before launch?
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
What is your point? Can you somehow prove what sort of growth they would have had if they had better planned, clearer stretch goals? I'm definitely correct that the contributions have slowed down since the initial goal was met.
I hope you have something more constructive to say than drive-by meaningless posts.
If you're at the point where you're telling people to ignore you, you are perhaps not contributing productively to the discussion.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
You get some exclusive items. I guess that's kind of like stock options?
stan423321
Member
Kickstarter prohibits this sort of backer award.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Now I feel like playing some more Harmony of Despair on 360 just to celebrate.
I think the problem is they are already making a pretty big game since they have so much outside funding. The stretch goals in this case are more to give people something to feel like they are improving the game with changing the scope too much. They want this game done within 2 years so I doubt they will take on anything that will stretch development too much.
zeopower6
Member
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There's these
SiegfriedFM
Member
You have never ever been anywhere near a software project or indeed a project of any kind.
Is this your idea of programming?
10 Start Game
20 Activate Cheat Code
30 Run Game
END
People are pissed off that it's not 2d sprite work. The game is super fun to play but the art style is not the most inspired in the world.
The stretch goals don't represent the cost of the added features. They are just there to create an incentive for people to pledge or increase their pledge. Some projects may factor the cost into them but in this case I believe they are just a milestone.
Graphic style, basically. That and them announcing things people never asked, like a cartoon or something...
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
Or maybe some people have a hard time accepting different opinions even when presented with counter points and become defensive and resort to silly comments? Just maybe.
There were two pieces of concept art shown. People decided to forget about one of them, and are angry that the final product doesn't look like the other one.
People often post the first picture, whining that the game doesn't look like that, and ignorning the other ones. Also ignoring the very early footage we saw of the game, that was clearly not 2D either.
Backed at $28 when this launched. May raise it higher when we get some more concrete details. The biggest gripe I have with the campaign currently is the same as Durante's, the stretch goals are pretty non specific. However this is only the second day and apparently a lot of the staff is busy/sleep deprived so I'll hold out hope it improves.
I don't necessarily mind the gamification of the social media stuff and think it could actually be kind of a fun incentive if they could actually keep up with/ easily tabulate everything they're trying to track easily. One of the big issues most kickstarters run into is maintaining their funding rate. Typically it falls off after the first few days and it's largely through fan involvement, updates, new stretch goals that the devs keep interest high through a campaign. I feel like they were expecting a much lower funding rate though given how blindsided they seem to be.
Many kickstarters do give a pie chart cost breakdown for their costs and it'd be nice if they added one for Bloodstained. While I find them useful and it gives me confidence that the developers know what they're doing, it often just results in backers arguing over how "X Feature doesn't cost that much" as was made terribly evident in the Skullgirls Indiegogo campaign.
As has been said many times already, stretch goals don't directly equate to the cost of implementing the feature. Any stretch goal amount will typically exceed the amount it takes to add the feature and the remainder goes to misc dev costs, kickstarter fees, failed pledges, etc. I remember like half the Torment:Tides of Numenera stretch goals were "more reactivity" or some such. Really nebulous stuff, but I have faith they'll deliver on it because they have the experience and writing chops to handle it.
Often you'll get piddly little "cheat code" type features between more major stretch goals because trends have shown that if you place goals too far apart it will kill the funding rate so it's good to have smaller goals between them that won't eat up a lot of time or money developing.
And the reason no one's sending you $150,000 for gum is because we have no idea who you are or what you plan to do with the gum. Something I feel like a lot of people ignore regarding Kickstarter is if someone runs a kickstarter and then fails to deliver what most of their backers want they're unlikely to ever get money from crowdfunding again. And since most of them went to crowdfunding since they couldn't get their games greenlit by a traditional publisher it's pretty much over for them.
An unknown can start a kickstarter promising the moon then vanish into the night, but a high profile failure for someone like Iga is probably the end. There's a lot more riding on a project like this than a lot of people assume and it's not free money as some think.
I don't necessarily mind the gamification of the social media stuff and think it could actually be kind of a fun incentive if they could actually keep up with/ easily tabulate everything they're trying to track easily. One of the big issues most kickstarters run into is maintaining their funding rate. Typically it falls off after the first few days and it's largely through fan involvement, updates, new stretch goals that the devs keep interest high through a campaign. I feel like they were expecting a much lower funding rate though given how blindsided they seem to be.
Many kickstarters do give a pie chart cost breakdown for their costs and it'd be nice if they added one for Bloodstained. While I find them useful and it gives me confidence that the developers know what they're doing, it often just results in backers arguing over how "X Feature doesn't cost that much" as was made terribly evident in the Skullgirls Indiegogo campaign.
As has been said many times already, stretch goals don't directly equate to the cost of implementing the feature. Any stretch goal amount will typically exceed the amount it takes to add the feature and the remainder goes to misc dev costs, kickstarter fees, failed pledges, etc. I remember like half the Torment:Tides of Numenera stretch goals were "more reactivity" or some such. Really nebulous stuff, but I have faith they'll deliver on it because they have the experience and writing chops to handle it.
Often you'll get piddly little "cheat code" type features between more major stretch goals because trends have shown that if you place goals too far apart it will kill the funding rate so it's good to have smaller goals between them that won't eat up a lot of time or money developing.
And the reason no one's sending you $150,000 for gum is because we have no idea who you are or what you plan to do with the gum. Something I feel like a lot of people ignore regarding Kickstarter is if someone runs a kickstarter and then fails to deliver what most of their backers want they're unlikely to ever get money from crowdfunding again. And since most of them went to crowdfunding since they couldn't get their games greenlit by a traditional publisher it's pretty much over for them.
An unknown can start a kickstarter promising the moon then vanish into the night, but a high profile failure for someone like Iga is probably the end. There's a lot more riding on a project like this than a lot of people assume and it's not free money as some think.
Exactly what I wanted. Should be added to the OP (I couldn't find it on the first page).
Thanks a lot.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Fuck it, I upped my pledge to $100. 2017 is so far away though. 
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
I think you're right, so then the question is, what is the extra money going to? Is it not a fair assessment to say that - with the lack of clarity provided - there is a big possibility that this extra money will just be pocketed and no one will ever know?
Will do
There is no guarantee. From the campaigns that I contributed to in the past, all games with a digital key were given out on or before the launch date. There was one campaign with a physical copy that got held up in customs and I did not receive it until several weeks after release. That is my experience.
Maybe!
It all depends on the company making the game. A Study in Emerald was a board game kickstarter, part of the appeal to getting people to back it was that the game wouldn't be available in stores until almost a year after it was shipped to backers. But then they ended up giving a bunch of copies to an online retailer who turned out to be faster at fulfilling orders than the publisher so people were buying games online and getting them before the backers were. So who knows! Every kickstarter is different.
Also, sometimes the game doesn't even get made, but your money is still gone. This game seems like a pretty safe bet, though. You'll probably get a download code or something on time if it gets made. Or not.
zeopower6
Member
The description for the Kickstarter physical edition implies that they'll probably do another one that doesn't have exclusive content.
I agree in some of your points
Speedrun will prob be one hit to kill each enemy or something like that?
If this genre was massively profitable I don't think we'd have to be Kickstarting this game as Iga would still be at Konami churning them out. Whatever publisher is funding the game will know the final Kickstarter total. If anything making this game more profitable makes it far more likely that we'll get more games from Iga. So we can't really lose.
It won't be pocketed, it'll just be used to fund/facilitate various sources of game-play and marketing.
My worry is that the boring and non-descriptive stretch goals will hurt the campaign more than help down the road considering we're already seeing the slowdown occur. Things wouldn't be nearly as bad if the backer achievements were less padded as you'll get those unlocks, but after all the funding and hype we've generated... we just barely obtained the crystal lens and it seems all the "cool" stretch goals will be in the dungeon which calls for 30 backer achievements.
It's all fine and dandy to have a slow steady pace as I don't expect everything to be shown in the first two days, however, I don't believe the current stretch goals will invite continued support for very long with those on the fence.
Simply said, having the other goals locked behind community activity is a double-edged sword.
Yeah...you clearly don't know how designing and programming works. You don't just say "we need this as a cheat" and it magically works. Somebody has to implement that code.
What does it matter if it's pocketed? If a game sells more copies at retail the people who bought the game don't get more in return. The people who made the game get more money. Why does it being on Kickstarter have to change that?
Alright. Thank you.
Guess I'll wait abit before adding more to my pledge.
Yep there is always that chance. All the extra funding could also be reducing the amount that the publisher is putting in. Alternatively it is all going on top of the already promised amount and will be used to add more into the game. What I don't understand is whats the problem if they are just pocketing the money. Studios need to make a profit to survive so say my KS would need 500k to create and I end up making 700k. Am i required to put that back into the game or can I treat it like a normal profit from selling the game. It's a philosophical problem that probably everyone feels differently about. I think the company shouldn't be required to keep increasing the cost and scope of their game just because it did well. At a certain point I would prefer they lock the game down and anything over is just a buffer or early profits for use by the team.
eso76
Member
We don't know if it is fun, level design from what we have seen is dull, uninteresting. And the problem with the art style isn't not being sprite based. The game just looks bad and very cheap, like one of those early 2.5 games from the ps2 era.
That depends. If you go for a digital option, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't get your download code on launch day.
If you go for a physical copy like I have, then there's any number of reasons why your game could be delayed. As I'm in the UK, I'm having to get it shipped internationally, so there's a chance that it could arrive later than the official release date, but depending on when they actually ship the physical copies, I could potentially also get it earlier. There aren't really any guarantees.
Personally, I'm willing to risk not getting the game on day one if that means I get all the other bonuses that come with my tier, and a physical copy of the game. Plus I get a certain amount of satisfaction from knowing how much I've contributed to the kickstarter.
PfantzyPantz
Member
I wonder if they'll 'allow' fan art involving CV characters, especially with the comics considering I don't know what else you could make the comics about (ie pass off the torch fan art).
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
I agree with everything you said. My issue is that yes while a certain dev will most likely not fair well on a second kickstarter if he burned his backers, the consequences actually extend beyond his/her projects and onto other future kickstarters. As an example, look at MN9 which some people are already kind of disappointed in and find it underwhelming. How much did that kickstarter raise anyway? Some people are a little wary of this project because of the MN9. This is why more transparency/clarity needs to be applied or maybe even enforced during the planning phase of kickstarters (at least videogame projects) so that people keep contributing on potentially amazing games without having to worry about getting burned.
To give you an example, I was ready to give a big amount for this project considering the Iga style Castlevania games are some of my favorite games, but seeing how little planning has been demonstrated so far on this project, I lost all faith and will now wait for the final product before I give them any money.
TyrantGuardian
Member
Yes, I'm sure IGA will just take this money and use it to buy a Ferrari. Lmao.
I've played the full beta they put out so yes I do know that the game is fun. The game is cheap and probably isn't far off the budget of an early ps2 era game. The artstyle is not the greatest but it gets an undue amount of hate.
It's hilarious how unprepared they were for the speed of this kickstarter. Apparently they were going to write out specific details after the initial tour, since Iga's busy pimping the game. It really is a case of "they had no idea how much we wanted it" and they're trying to catch up.
They have suggested that is a much higher goal. It would basically require making a completely different game.
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
The problem with being pocketed is that this is a donation (or an investment) as many of you have said. I don't give money to red cross so that they pocket it. I want the donation to go and fulfill the purpose of the donation to the last cent. In this case it means improving the quality of the game which will have the positive effect of making more sales and profit (a lot more than the pocketed donations) when the game is released.
God, I'm excited for this, but I can't help but cringe every time I see that table of 'backer achievements'. It just feels kinda gross to hold hostage goals by asking for followers/retweets/likes/fan-art/etc.
That said, the grousing over the stretch goals is silly. It's actually pretty comforting to know they aren't over-promising or burying their campaign trail with shitloads of feature bloat far outside the developer's capacity to fulfill inside a reasonable amount of time. We've seen it happen time and time again and it's either sunken these things or stretched out their estimated release date by months if not years. It doesn't cost 250,000 dollars to add a speed run mode, and I don't think anyone is suggesting as such. Stretch goals are incentives in order to push the funding over, it's not a pre-calculated estimate to fund up to that feature specifically and only that feature.
That said, the grousing over the stretch goals is silly. It's actually pretty comforting to know they aren't over-promising or burying their campaign trail with shitloads of feature bloat far outside the developer's capacity to fulfill inside a reasonable amount of time. We've seen it happen time and time again and it's either sunken these things or stretched out their estimated release date by months if not years. It doesn't cost 250,000 dollars to add a speed run mode, and I don't think anyone is suggesting as such. Stretch goals are incentives in order to push the funding over, it's not a pre-calculated estimate to fund up to that feature specifically and only that feature.
theSlacker
Member
They may and they may not. When talking about the physical version in the stream last night they mentioned heavily how happy they were with the super limited run of physical ps4 Retro City Rampage copies and that is what they were going for with this. If that means the special kickstarter edition physical copy or any physical copy, I don't know. It is really making me hope that more kickstarters don't use fangamer though since the PS4 physical version of RCR was fucking bullshit, and it's example shouldn't be used as a blueprint to sell anything.
Anyway. First backer update just hit a little bit ago. I'm disappointed by the explanation they gave for the cheat codes that were unlocked. Seems more like the thing that would have gone with their 40 achievement incentive of "silly cheat codes" and not how codes would have worked in past games, like additional modes or spells. Will have to wait and see on them though.
Yup, the footage was shown before the funding ended.
Early PS2 was awesome anyway
Bring it on, I'm still super hyped for it and I'll triple dip (3DS, PC, and physical on WiiU <3).