It's good to see you so transparent with your defeatist approach. At least we know what angle you're coming from.
Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
- Thread starter Jigolo
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If they didn't think it matters for sales they would have come clean about it during the numerous opportunities presented where they did the opposite.
I have not heard anyone claim 'pre-order cancelled' or 'no-buy' or anything like this. The 'kerfuffle' is a discussion where NeoGAFians can discuss the graphics progression over the years since 'public conception' thats it.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Which I already addressed in a previous post. PR gonna PR re: downgrade confession. It's not gonna change people.
family_guy
Member
Keys were going for as low as $18 last year. At that price there wasn't a big enough reason not to preorder.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
What do you propose the solution is short of working your way up the chain at a AAA studio and making sure marketing and the dev teams make absolutely sure vertical slices are feasible for the final product, which is always years away from completion, optimizing etc?
Not with that attitude.
Come on Angry Joe. You know you ought to do this video.
They feed you too many paczkis over there?
Then delete the thread and gas all the people complaining. Just be honest about it.
It sounds defeatist because it is defeatist. We lost already. It would take a cataclysm for them to stop piling on the BS. That will probably happen eventually, just not today or tomorrow. There is no boycotting the game over an issue people are desensitized to and have come to expect, so there are no repercussions. It cannot be changed without extremity. My view all along has been that the industry will collapse in part due to this. They're killing themselves in the long run because the budgets will get so out of control that CG trailers will become gameplay (or something to that effect). How many years into development do we want to go? The Division will be at 2.5 years from when it was shown. One can only hope it'll keep its shape (it's been downgraded already though).
I have a very nice Collector's edition coming. But yeah if you go digital unless there is some awesome digital package ahead of time there really is no need to preorder. I do a lot of digital games but there are some I just want the physical set
pixel monkey
Banned
I think the PS4 version looks incredible (aside from some dodgy framerate 5 hours in). took this earlier:
If I could choose only one post to sum up this thread... this would be it. A GAF contributor posts a stunningly beautiful shot of his actual gameplay on the retail release of this massive, open world game (on the PS4 no less)... and it's ignored. Why? Because it doesn't suit the narrative.
I'd call it sad, but it's far worse than that... it's GAF.
plasmawave
Banned
Un-fucking-believable.
So the fault is with the deceived and not with the deceiver?
That sounds a lot like what a scam artist would say.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Again, how do you propose to make actual change towards this practice short of outrage on a message board? You're still buying this game I take it?
^Youtubers/people who write content for sites sometimes read message boards to see what people are interested in. If youtubers didn't matter they wouldn't have flown them all to Poland to check the game out and feed them deserts. It's not impossible for things to change or at least think twice about in the future so we don't get as much of it.
Some of us have seen sunsets before. Everything else other than the guy and the horse looks terrible compared to other recent games, even of a similar type like DA:I and compared to what they continually backed as being in-game footage.
There are nice moments in the game. And that guy streaming with 980 slis, the game looked great at times, mostly alright.
But it compares really poorly in other more normal setups and shots though.
Some of us have seen sunsets before. Everything else other than the guy and the horse looks terrible compared to other recent games, even of a similar type like DA:I and compared to what they continually backed as being in-game footage.
There are nice moments in the game. And that guy streaming with 980 slis, the game looked great at times, mostly alright.
But it compares really poorly in other more normal setups and shots though.
There's no endgame for this. It can only get worse, as devs can't really deliver better vertical slices. So either they're more conservative with their previews (lol) or it just gets progressively more deceptive.
That's it. There are no other conclusions. It'll always be "B-b-b-b-but the consumer wants to see more of the game", and that'll be the new fool's goalpost.
I think what is sad is that you have 6000+ posts to properly inform you what the core issues actually are for most people and you come in here in spite of that and misrepresent it. Questioning why people aren't responding to something that has little to do with their issues.
Continue to inform the uninformed. Spread the word about these practices like people are currently doing. Don't brush it off as mere complaining. Don't sit back and let a company, PR, or whoever run a train over consumers. If people, after absorbing all the facts, can still look forward to the product? Great! I have the game pre-loaded and ready to go come Monday evening. I like CDPR as a company. I would like them to respect me and my intelligence. It's only fair and the right thing to do by fans.
Ghostmaster
Member
This is some bullshit. While the hyperbole in this thread is insane in both directions(come on guys, Fable...really...really), the reason why most people are pissed off in this thread is that CDPR lied up to the very day of release and not because the game is not beautiful. And lie they did.
Confidence Man
Member
The narrative is that the PC version got downgraded to console port status, so I'd say it suits the narrative quite well.
pixel monkey
Banned
You can see it, appreciate it and still want more, like you saw and then imagined to be playing. Like maybe a step up from DA:I? Not down...not after they said... <world crumbles>
No.
There are half a dozen other threads for that. The downgrade talk doesn't spill into those, and the non-downgrade talk shouldn't spill into this one. That's why that was ignored.
This topic is about the downgrade. Even a company like CDPR are guilty of one, and it's becoming more and more pervasive of a problem in this industry where valuing honesty is a novelty. Feel free to decieve because if you get called on it someone, somewhere, will make excuses for you. "Well it doesn't look THAT bad". That's not the point, the point is that it doesn't look like what was shown to us.
CDPR made very clear that there was no downgrade. Leading up to the release a member of CDPR says that it isn't a downgrade because what they showed before wasn't actually the game. They didn't say that at the time and apparently that should just be okay.
Developers and publishers will keep pulling this, and become more and more audacious, if nobody says anything. The Witcher 3 could be, and by most accounts is, a fantastic game. Regarding the downgrade that is besides the point.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
The AAA space is dire right now, and the industry at that budget level volatile af, to the surprise of no one. We've got the wonderful new practice of betas released as RC (see MCC), early access up the wazoo in the pc space (which admittedly I do like for certain projects), and a potential shake up coming down the pipe with VR that may shift priorities for certain studios depending if that takes off. I'm not gonna say we're at or near another potential market burst, but it wouldn't surprise me either because it seems like development is rocky for many a studio right now, maybe with the exception of the orc labor force over at Ubi just due to sheer numbers thrown at projects. I recall reading a quote from some industry type saying "it's getting harder to impress people with graphics" and I think many studios probably feel they have to show something whiz bang wowee visually for that initial reveal to keep people hooked to a product all the way up to purchase. Or maybe this is just marketing 101 and these problems are just a lot more widely reported on now. Regardless, these devs still made something vast and unique for us to experience, and I'm not gonna be cursing under my breath as I play it tomorrow cause outrage. I'm gonna enjoy the fuck out of it.
You have yet to give a solid excuse why it would be ok to lie about a project like this. To have a video of a product that was fabricated playing on an OFFICIAL WEBSITE A DAY BEFORE RELEASE. I'm waiting.
Ghostmaster
Member
While some of the things you said are true, this practice of false trailers to build hype was started in earnest way back in 2005, with the infamous Killzone 2 trailer. So I would bet on marketing 101.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
I never said it was acceptable, just that it happens, and will likely continue to happen. Vertical slices ain't goin away man. Way it is.
How could I forget? Yeah that was pretty crazy what they were promising there. Haven't seen it in awhile, curious to see what the equivalent real time game in that genre is today. Shadow Fall? Lol
It does suit the narrative. You should read the thread. Lots of people have said the game still looks nice. I legitimately think it does. Character details and armor in particular have looked great for awhile now, to me. It's also an improvement on the whole even since the early vids.
But whatever. Watch_Dogs happens. "Shut up and enjoy the game, it still looks nice"
Aliens: Colonial Marines happens. "Shut up and enjoy this terrible game."
Dark Souls 2 happens. "Shut up and enjoy the game, it still looks... Well, it looks okay I guess."
The Witcher 3 happens. Etc. And in the past: Killzone, Halo 2.
I feel like you guys are painting a picture where the trailers were indicative of one thing, whereas the actual game looked like another thing entirely, and the two never converged.
I strongly doubt that's how this works. Vertical slices, yes, but it's not to say that CDPR, at that time, didn't think that they could hit that. It's not like they were saying "We know exactly what this game is going to look like in two years time, let's fool them all with this deliberately misleading trailer!" I bet there were painstakingly awful decisions made within the company that no one was happy about and constant gutting due to god knows what. I don't doubt that the same thing happened to Watch_Dogs, Dark Souls 2, and whatever else.
That said, I still do have a problem with how they handled it after the fact. Their PR was weak and they've done nothing but deflect. It's unfortunate and weird. This is why freaking the hell out over graphics is terrible. The devs didn't want to say anything earlier because they knew they'd be ripped to shreds by a vocal minority and it'd look bad before launch. So they did the worse thing and kept it close to their chest, which only invited more of it and made it more deserved. Meanwhile, they've got this apparently great game sitting there, and those devs are let down by the PR team. It's a fucking mess.
It's the reality of the situation. The game is what it is now. PR needs to improve, but to what end? What's really at stake here? Some people act like there's war crimes being committed, it's pretty outrageous. It was bad with Watch_Dogs and it's bad here too. The whole thing's unfortunate, yes, but you've got to have some priorities.
I strongly doubt that's how this works. Vertical slices, yes, but it's not to say that CDPR, at that time, didn't think that they could hit that. It's not like they were saying "We know exactly what this game is going to look like in two years time, let's fool them all with this deliberately misleading trailer!" I bet there were painstakingly awful decisions made within the company that no one was happy about and constant gutting due to god knows what. I don't doubt that the same thing happened to Watch_Dogs, Dark Souls 2, and whatever else.
That said, I still do have a problem with how they handled it after the fact. Their PR was weak and they've done nothing but deflect. It's unfortunate and weird. This is why freaking the hell out over graphics is terrible. The devs didn't want to say anything earlier because they knew they'd be ripped to shreds by a vocal minority and it'd look bad before launch. So they did the worse thing and kept it close to their chest, which only invited more of it and made it more deserved. Meanwhile, they've got this apparently great game sitting there, and those devs are let down by the PR team. It's a fucking mess.
It's the reality of the situation. The game is what it is now. PR needs to improve, but to what end? What's really at stake here? Some people act like there's war crimes being committed, it's pretty outrageous. It was bad with Watch_Dogs and it's bad here too. The whole thing's unfortunate, yes, but you've got to have some priorities.
Not bullshots! Running on big sli setups that overestimated what they could get away with, maybe.
They had it and then they didn't ... because it wasn't feasible for most people ... unsurprisingly given what it would have taken to run. It was a legit vertical slice or target render though, not bullshots - because it looked more like what could have been.
They had it and then they didn't ... because it wasn't feasible for most people ... unsurprisingly given what it would have taken to run. It was a legit vertical slice or target render though, not bullshots - because it looked more like what could have been.
SamusPrime
Banned
I agree completely. The issue is being shown/sold (in the pre-order case) one thing and receiving another without any heads up. Simply put, it's dishonest and playing your customer base for idiots, the same customers that keep your business profitable. Whether the end product is still fun is a different story in my eyes.
The arguments that as a consumer I'm supposed to know that the PS3 can't handle this or that in advance and therefore, for example, DS2 downgrade shouldn't have been a surprise is outrageous bullshit as well. What you advertise is what I want to buy, simple.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
This was my point, I mean cmon this is cdpr, a dev known for pushing things on PC. Of course their original vision was to push current hardware with some amazing assets and effects. Like you said, as development went on, and as things like budget considerations and current gen console spec limitations became more apparent the reality likely set in, resources needed to be allocated more towards parity and less towards the high end PC only stuff. It sucks and their PR should have been more transparent, but it is what it is. Maybe once it's out for awhile they'll come clean but I doubt it.
What? This is the downgrade thread. Whether the game still looks good was never the question. The question was if the game has been downgraded or not. That screenshot does nothing to disprove the downgrade so it has little to no relevance to the core subject of the thread. Downgrade talk doesn't make it's way into other threads, other talk doesn't make it's way into the downgrade thread.
Transparent? They flat out said PC would not be held back by consoles and that there would be no downgrade. They lied.
Ubisoft was brutalized for Watch Dogs, let's at least call it like it is.
So why are they still misleading on their site?
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
come on guys, the game hardly looks ugly. Lets play the damn game and judge its on its merits. Just like you would a lasting relationship with a woman lol
Ghostmaster
Member
There'd be some controversy, but I don't know. They'd probably gain a lot more respect for naming the "lowest common denominator"..... Just not more sales. They earn more keeping things close to the chest.
Let's at least hope there isn't a "SwordsOfDestinyTrailer=FALSE" in an ini somewhere, like there was for Watch_Dogs.
That setting didn't actually do anything. TheWorse mod fixes a lot of things and makes the game look arguably as good as the original E3 reveal, but the "consolesetting" ini entry was inconsequential.
I thought the consensus was that Sword of Destiny trailer was released post-downgrade
TheSpoiler
Member
Please don't.
I hate to be the one to say this, but that screen looks like ass to me compared to the original 2013 reveal (vision) trailer for a PC game. I know it's PS4, but I would not be satisfied with many of the issues in that image, given what my expectations of what the game would look like from the very beginning were. I think Far Cry 4 looks a lot better on my set up personally. As I've said before, this is the game that people were going to delay their entire new PC builds to be around. It looked that damn awesome.
McHuj
Member
This narrative that PC was held back by PS4 is laughable. The PC held the PC back.
Just look at the steam hardware survey. The April 2015 numbers show that ~61% of the master race play at less than (not at) 1080p and ~80% have about 2GB or less of VRAM. Most have a dual core setup and high end GPU's aren't that prolific either.
If CDPR wants to sell it's game to an actual market, that's who they'll target. The PS4 is irrelevant to this as it sits somewhere in the middle of all those specs.
I'm misremembering then. I mean whatever one isn't the pre-downgraded footage.
Well, I mean as long as there isn't stuff left in the game files to return the game to it's pre-downgrade status, like there was for Watch_Dogs.
That and the PC port being garbage was also a huge part of the backlash, IIRC. I couldn't get that game to go above 30 FPS, and it'd microstutter still.
It's not lying when it's PR
Big game companies are going to start adding a humble face to represent each game.
Games are people too.
They don't force you to play on Ultra (what you'd hope ultra was anyway).
Codiox
Member
I think the problem with watch dogs and now Witcher is that the development started way before the devs knew the specs of the current gen consoles. They had to make assumptions on what it could be, so before they do nothing, they targeted something. Then the consoles were released and they had to find a way to get it running the best way possible.
I think this will stop when we get a game were the development started in 2013/2014. Then we will get what we will see in first trailers.
Just my 2 cents...
I think this will stop when we get a game were the development started in 2013/2014. Then we will get what we will see in first trailers.
Just my 2 cents...
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
That's why PC games have this fancy doodad called video/graphics settings. It's not just one setting across the board.
In a world where PC games don't have settings like console games, this statement might have made sense.
Dictator93
Member
It is actually a rather powerful narrative given what we know what happened with other games in the past, the nature of building an equiv pc, and also from a variety of tech slides from GDC and otherwise about game dev on next gen consoles.
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