Marvels Secret Wars by Hickman & Ribic |OT| Everything ends... Everything begins
- Thread starter Mudcrab
- Start date
- Status
crimsonspider89
Banned
The non Raft surivivors are the citizens. So everyone who died during an incursion is on Battleworld with there past memories gone except for the Spiders currently due to Spidey sense.
bengraven
Member
Well in the original SW Doom's powers were flawed because of his own ego. He couldn't let them remain dead because he kept thinking about them, for example. So it would make sense to think that he may have recreated them faithfully on accident...maybe because he was worried they would remember. So by ensuring they never remember, he may have put the means for them to remember in there.
Make sense?
TL
R - doom's powers are flawed and he may be ruined by his egoPhoncipleBone
Banned
TL
So Doom will be defeated in the same way he always has.
Manmademan
Member
Well in the original SW Doom's powers were flawed because of his own ego. He couldn't let them remain dead because he kept thinking about them, for example. So it would make sense to think that he may have recreated them faithfully on accident...maybe because he was worried they would remember. So by ensuring they never remember, he may have put the means for them to remember in there.
Make sense?
TL
I'm not on board with this. So far no one else seems to have the ability to spontaneously "remember" previous lives, only those six.
The original spider verse mini series conclusion finished up with that crew (minus gwen- but her series is still ongoing) given the ability to roam around the multiverse and traverse alternate realities at will, thanks to the "great web", which appears to be unaffected by the incursions. Wherever/whatever it is, it's "outside" the normal rules of space, time, and the multiverse. (The weaver put Newspaper spider man somewhere inaccessible, for instance- and his existence is some kind of strange time loop.).
It's far more likely that their survival has more to do with that, rather than doom just screwing himself over.
bengraven
Member
I'm just theorizing here man.
Manmademan
Member
aren't we all?
thechristoph
Sir!
I've only read Secret Wars #1 and #2 so far and I haven't been following much at all of what's lead up to this. Other than not really understanding why
, I'm pretty entertained so far. I think the map at the end of the second book was a really big help, and I get a kick out of the fact that the Far East is neither Far nor East.
The thing that confuses me about this big event things is that they have the core book that tells the main story, but the real stuff seems to happen in the tie-ins. Seems like a very expensive proposition. This is simultaneously a cool way for new readers to jump in but also very intimidating from a financial standpoint.
Doom is God and why 616 and Ultimate were merging to begin with
The thing that confuses me about this big event things is that they have the core book that tells the main story, but the real stuff seems to happen in the tie-ins. Seems like a very expensive proposition. This is simultaneously a cool way for new readers to jump in but also very intimidating from a financial standpoint.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Mudcrab's OP has a good summary of the events leading up to Secret Wars. I'd totally recommend reading Avengers and New Avengers though. I just got caught up this week and it was a really good run.
CloudyTuba
Member
Ultimate End 1 and Spider-Verse 1 spoilers---
Yeah Im really confused too. At first I assumed that it was 616 and 1610 crossing over, but...nobody seems right. Stark? And whats going on with Hulk? And, just... what? This isn't 616 as I know it. Who am I looking at here? Is this some warped Battleworld echo of 616, while the only real remaining 616ers are on the raft? I know there are multiple versions of characters across Battleworld but this is just messing with me. I guess Battlworld 616 only represents the compressed/changed version of 616, generalized versions of characters vaguely assembled from their history. So for instance a general representation of 616 Spider-Man exists in Battleworld while the true original version of 616 Spidey was on the raft.
I hope they dont spent too long keeping the "mystery" and just sort this shit out next issue because it's more annoying than mysterious. Get it sorted and then move on with the story.
All I know is that the universe is really fucked up right now, but I guess that's the point.
At least Spiderverse confirmed the leading theory, that everyone on battleworld only really has messed up memories of that universe after compression/recreation. Only raft riders remain unchanged.
Alcoremortis
Member
Hulk's been that way for his entire recent series. Back over the summer, Banner got brain damage and Tony decided to cure it with extremis. And then later, Banner, in a typical Banner move, decided to tinker with the extremis even more and make the Hulk a supergenius, largely because he was pissed off at Tony and wanted to pull a fast one on him.
However, supergenius Hulk then ended up in control and started calling himself Doc Green instead and that's the one we see in the 616 Manhattan.
So is Doc Green still gonna be Doc after the Wars, I know they
finally fixed the Betty is Red She Hulk business.
EDIT: Oh wait, I forgot they
hinted Green was turning back into regular Hulk.
Alcoremortis
Member
Okay, not sure if I should spoiler but:
the Extremis was slowly wearing off for Doc Green and he's been getting stupider by the day (not that anyone has really noticed yet). He has a cure for his declining intellect, but he's too terrified to use it because he thinks it'll make him into the Maestro. But at the same time, he's got a Flowers for Algernon thing going on and is also scared of going back to the Savage Hulk version of himself.
Basically, I have no idea. They could go either way with this one.
Manmademan
Member
No more hulks at all, with the exception of Banner, She-Hulk, and Lyra.
To me Ultimate End looks like a recreation of two universes(everyone we knew is already dead unless they made it on one of the two rafts) where Ultimate Tony accidentally removed the borders, which of course is against Doom's laws.
I'm a bit behind on the book but
I'm a bit behind on the book but
they were also setting it up so that he might become the Maestro and Marvel is teasing that he will be a big part of the new Marvel universe.
Alcoremortis
Member
I don't think they'll do this. What they might do is
bring the Maestro from 2099 into the 616 universe to keep him around as a Hulk villain. Because let's face it, there aren't many good Hulk villains. Him and potentially Gammon are really the only ones who really fuck up Banner's shit.
SHIELD works at the Wall specifically. And they have some big guns there. Like Kang.
(How does Kang work in an environment like Battleworld?)
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
What is this one going to be about?
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
The Night's Watch.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Correct.
BKatastrophe
Member
Sam Wilson Thor is second best Thor.
Behind Beta Ray Bill, of course
Behind Beta Ray Bill, of course
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Fucking, right! Bill is the GOAT.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
If you're reading Secret Wars without reading Avengers/New Avengers you're doing yourself a huge disservice.
BKatastrophe
Member
I had an argument with someone at my work about it (so glad I work with someone I can have an argument about that with.
He also dislikes Kyle Rayner with a passion, so we heavily disagree on some things.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Hates Beta Ray Bill and Kyle Rayner? Bah!
An old coworker of mine would be fun for those conversations too. But we saw eye to eye about Bill and Kyle.
Our only major disagreements were Man of Steel and Arrow S2. He loved Man of Steel and I hated it. And he didn't believe me early in Arrow S2 that Deathstroke would be the villain. He thought they'd just keep Slade for flashbacks. My argument was that you don't introduce Slade Wilson and not give us Deathstroke.
He was a bit upset that as I was right.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
literally
MHWilliams
Member
It's not explained, but they have confirmed that Strange is his 616 counterpart. No one else.
Why would they have something as important as the Raft, and then just throw those characters into books not related to Secret Wars at random? It's Hickman. Hickman has plans for everyone outside of the universal collapse. That's Doom, Strange, the Raft, the Cabal, the Maker, and Miles.
Instead, it's far easier to simply realize, especially when there's four and five different versions of major heroes running around, that pretty much everyone in Battleworld is a copy. And in Ultimate End, there's 616 heroes pulled from different eras, shit be all screwed up.
Gambit 1138
Banned
The watchers on the wall
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I was listening the The Comic Conspiracy podcast and they were discussing Secret Wars 001, as well as what led up to it. Listening to them talk about how it was stupid that none of the Incursion storyline (that they read - which I assume was a few issues) led up to Secret Wars.
It was so aggravating to listen to.
It was so aggravating to listen to.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
On another note considering
strange had people hunting down a copy of himself I wouldn't be surprised if we get a SW version of Doom who ends up working with the 616 heroes to defeat God Doom because God Doom wouldn't want any other version of himself running around either. Also it would fit into the normal Doom story of "who can really defeat Doom but himself?"
wonder if that version of Doom in the end will be the Doom seen in Ultron Forever?
But Doom, like Reed's dad, is almost unique in the multiverse. The Council of Reeds didn't kill all versions of Doom, but they sure as hell got a lot of them, like the Molecule Man said. And even if Doom happened upon realities with surviving instances of himself, I doubt Doom would save another version of himself, it'd detract from his status as singular God. I'm willing to bet that there is but one Doom on Battleworld.
Manmademan
Member
The maestro was brought into 616 as of the last issue of Spiderman 2099. Miguel screwed up big time.
Alcoremortis
Member
I think I quasi-remembered that but wasn't sure if it had actually happened or if I'd just thought it would be really cool.
And I disagree. I think that Miguel deserves a pat on the back for delivering such a top tier villain to the 616 folks.
So what happened to the other universes that survived an incursion? I thought that if u destroy one planet earth during an incursion then both universes live. So why is it down to 2 universes at the end?
Also does Doom want to help stop the incursions or prevent it? I thought killing molecule man would help stop it since the beyonders can't detonate them but apparently doom killing them is what started the incursions...?
And giving the many ways to destroy planets I was surprised that neither the ultimate universe or the marvel universe was able to detonate the other planet.
Man I'm so confused...
Also does Doom want to help stop the incursions or prevent it? I thought killing molecule man would help stop it since the beyonders can't detonate them but apparently doom killing them is what started the incursions...?
And giving the many ways to destroy planets I was surprised that neither the ultimate universe or the marvel universe was able to detonate the other planet.
Man I'm so confused...
bengraven
Member
And now her watch is over.
Well the 616 guys refused to do that shit again and the Ultimate guys were leaving that to Ultimate Reed who totally betrayed them to save his own skin by copying the plans for an arc that 616 Reed came up with.
Doom was looking to beat the Beyonders, that's it.
It's down to two universes at the end because they Beyonders killed off the physical manifestations of the multiverse. A universe could survive with their Earth destroyed, but due to the Beyonder's genocide against the comic abstracts and whatnot every universe was dying a slow death anyway. It's why the 616 Illuminati didn't just find another world, bring everyone on Earth there and blow the Earth up. Every time they tried a sun would explode and ruin their plans or something else would go horribly wrong that they couldn't fix. If the only problem was the incursions then there were real solutions they could have used, but it wasn't.
BKatastrophe
Member
For real, he's the only person at work that I can full on talk to about my interests because he also shares them. He's also just fun to talk to.
But yeah, his logic is that Odinson is the best Thor because he is Thor. And he dislikes Kyle because he wasn't technically "chosen" by the ring, he just happened to be there in an emergency. Weird logic on that one.
That's done by one of the guys who's also on The Geekbox, yeah? Because that podcast is also incredibly frustrating.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Ain't Kyle's fault that he was better than everyone else when he was the pinch hitter.
BKatastrophe
Member
Also the only GL to keep from being possessed by Parallax.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
- Status