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[Shogun_of_Truth]

I'm currently playing Order of Ecclesia and you should too.

This is the game that caught my eye the most due to the art and character design looking very appealing, but I was discouraged by people complaining about its difficulty being hard for those new to the series.


Sounds like your enjoying it though. Might have to go with this one then.

 

[Easy_D]

Just a heads up: Aria of Sorrow is on the Wii U VC in Europe since last month (Get it Wii U owners, get iiiit. Also available in NA)

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Man, where is that email update? We hit a pretty big goal here. Give me secrets!

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Oh? What are the paypal pledges at?

Over 51k as of the latest update.

 

[kaioshade]

Just put down 300 for my pledge.

Its going to be a LONG wait. At least beta access will be nice.

 

[Pureauthor]

I bet whichever investor told Iga to prove there was demand for this game is also pretty happy right now.

 

[Jotamide]

I bet whichever investor told Iga to prove there was demand for this game is also pretty happy right now.

Plot twist: it ends up being Nicalis and the game becomes Vaporware.

 

[Mivey]

I bet whichever investor told Iga to prove there was demand for this game is also pretty happy right now.

Maybe they are afraid the additional stretch goals add to much risk to the project and pull out?

 

[Sciz]

Maybe they are afraid the additional stretch goals add to much risk to the project and pull out?

Nothing is going to show up in this campaign without having publisher approval first.

 

[Valkyri von Thanatos]

Plot twist: it ends up being Nicalis and the game becomes Vaporware.

Maybe they are afraid the additional stretch goals add to much risk to the project and pull out?

XO Why do you say such things? Good thing pulling out is practically impossible now.

 

[georly]

I bet whichever investor told Iga to prove there was demand for this game is also pretty happy right now.

I'd still say quantity of backers is more important than amount of money backed. Once this game is out of the kickstarting phase, it'll be a $30 downloadable title. The rabid fans are paying, on average, way more than that. Once this goes commercial, I wonder if the remaining sales can make up for the investor's '90%'

 

[Sciz]

I'd still say quantity of backers is more important than amount of money backed. Once this game is out of the kickstarting phase, it'll be a $30 downloadable title. The rabid fans are paying, on average, way more than that. Once this goes commercial, I wonder if the remaining sales can make up for the investor's '90%'

Assuming $30 digital pricing with a 30% storefront fee, it only has to move 215k copies to make up the publisher's $4.5M, across a global market and at least three systems. Not likely to be an issue.

 

[Eusis]

I'd still say quantity of backers is more important than amount of money backed. Once this game is out of the kickstarting phase, it'll be a $30 downloadable title. The rabid fans are paying, on average, way more than that. Once this goes commercial, I wonder if the remaining sales can make up for the investor's '90%'

Has that been confirmed? I suspect the $28 is the crazy bargain for taking a chance, and $60 actually will be the standard MSRP. Which can seem a bit high for this, but it's being backed by an unnamed publisher and will have a relatively large budget, so it really seems more like a new middle market title, on the opposite end from where the GBA and DS games were as middle market titles.

EDIT: Also MN9 will hit retail at $40 and this will be a much longer/bigger game probably regardless of budget.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

So, still not sure if I should back this, not having played IGA's past work.

Hype is getting to me though.

What GBA/DS Igavania game should a play to decide if this is something I'd like?

Figure I should give one a shot, and back this project if it impresses me.

Edit; thinking of buying Harmony of Dissonance off the Wii U Virtual Console. Is that a bad or good place to start?

Of all 7 Metroidvanias (one on ps1, three on gba and three on DS) I firmly believe the absolute worst one is Harmony of Dissonance. Everything from the level design, music and graphics I hate it.

If you want a good Metroidvania that's on WiiU VC you're better of with CV: Circle of the Moon. I love that game to bits.



Also: what the hell's taking so long for this update? It's been way more than 12 hours since we hit the last stretch goal. And this isn't the first day where pledges were coming in at break neck speed, they knew we were hitting this days ago. Fan gamer is dropping the ball here.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

GAF do you think that Bloodstained budget has exceeded Mirror of Fate one?

I would also like to know this.

I have no idea what the budget of Mirror of Fate was.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'd still say quantity of backers is more important than amount of money backed. Once this game is out of the kickstarting phase, it'll be a $30 downloadable title. The rabid fans are paying, on average, way more than that. Once this goes commercial, I wonder if the remaining sales can make up for the investor's '90%'

This game is likely to be a full-price retail $60 title. It's not going to debut at $30, not on PS4/Bone/PC, it's not a 3DS/Vita game after all.

I will admit, designing a 1/1 scale figure as a weapon IS tempting...

I'm imagining Miriam whacking the enemies with a figure of herself.

Do it.

 

[georly]

Assuming $30 digital pricing with a 30% storefront fee, it only has to move 215k copies to make up the publisher's $4.5M, across a global market and at least three systems. Not likely to be an issue.

I'd love to know metrics for other KS games after launch. What percent of total consumers came from KS vs post KS. Is KS 10% of lifetime sales? 50%? Does genre/developer legacy affect it? Etc etc.

If this one ends at something like 50k... are there going to be another 200k+ out there?

Has that been confirmed? I suspect the $28 is the crazy bargain for taking a chance, and $60 actually will be the standard MSRP. Which can seem a bit high for this, but it's being backed by an unnamed publisher and will have a relatively large budget, so it really seems more like a new middle market title, on the opposite end from where the GBA and DS games were as middle market titles.

EDIT: Also MN9 will hit retail at $40 and this will be a much longer/bigger game probably regardless of budget.

No, strictly guessing 30. 40 for MN9 seems overpriced, imo.

This game is likely to be a full-price retail $60 title. It's not going to debut at $30, not on PS4/Bone/PC, it's not a 3DS/Vita game after all.

Maybe? Hard to sell digital-only at 60 bucks on PS4/Bone, no? Is there precedent for that? Is the audience for this genre of game willing to pay that much? I can't think of a single 2d or 2.5d metroidvania that has sold for more than ~$40 since SotN. Feel free to correct me if i'm forgetting something.

I think final price is no more than $40, simply due to the stigma surrounding 2.5d and digital only games. Not saying the game isn't WORTH 60 (clearly it is to me, as I'm backing it at the 125 tier), but your average person browsing the psn or live marketplace will look at it and judge the book by its cover (aka, not AAA-looking) and refuse to drop 60 bucks on it.

 

[Charles Brandon]

No chance this is going for full price

 

[Dreamwriter]

No, strictly guessing 30. 40 for MN9 seems overpriced, imo.



Maybe? Hard to sell digital-only at 60 bucks on PS4/Bone, no? Is there precedent for that? Is the audience for this genre of game willing to pay that much? I can't think of a single 2d or 2.5d metroidvania that has sold for more than ~$40 since SotN. Feel free to correct me if i'm forgetting something.

I think final price is no more than $40, simply due to the stigma surrounding 2.5d and digital only games. Not saying the game isn't WORTH 60 (clearly it is to me, as I'm backing it at the 125 tier), but your average person browsing the psn or live marketplace will look at it and judge the book by its cover (aka, not AAA-looking) and refuse to drop 60 bucks on it.

How is $40 overpriced for a $5 million+ budget game? That's quite a bit higher budget than most $40 3DS games, not to mention there are a TON of $60 games on console digital download stores.

 

[DXLelouch153]

id make an exception for an IGAvania and pay $60

 

[wrowa]

Maybe? Hard to sell digital-only at 60 bucks on PS4/Bone, no?

But it's not digital-only.

 

[theSlacker]

Also: what the hell's taking so long for this update? It's been way more than 12 hours since we hit the last stretch goal. And this isn't the first day where pledges were coming in at break neck speed, they knew we were hitting this days ago. Fan gamer is dropping the ball here.

It's par for the course with this kickstarter. The design and everything is nice, but the page updates really slowly. What's the point of having all these goals if they don't update in real time?

 

[Istaerion]

It's par for the course with this kickstarter. The design and everything is nice, but the page updates really slowly. What's the point of having all these goals if they don't update in real time?

No idea if the post they made on Tumblr pertains to all updates or just "official" ones, but apparently they'll send out updates every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday from now on.

I'm hoping that's just for the grand scale updates rather than general maintenance as it's pretty ridiculous as is with how slow they've been approaching things. They got a bit better after the start, but now it's essentially as slow if not slower than the campaign launch.

 

[FlashbladeNeo]

Oh? What are the paypal pledges at?

I wonder if it'll be one giant castle, or if we'll get an inverted equivalent. If it's one castle, is that one bigger than sotn w/ normal and inverted combined counting as one big one?

Whatever it is I'm sure it's more than $10,000

Cant wait for the update.

Waiting for them to shine the light on the $3 mil.

Amazing if the 3mil SG ends up being one big troll

3,000,000 for transfer saves

 

[Game Guru]

Has that been confirmed? I suspect the $28 is the crazy bargain for taking a chance, and $60 actually will be the standard MSRP. Which can seem a bit high for this, but it's being backed by an unnamed publisher and will have a relatively large budget, so it really seems more like a new middle market title, on the opposite end from where the GBA and DS games were as middle market titles.

EDIT: Also MN9 will hit retail at $40 and this will be a much longer/bigger game probably regardless of budget.

Mighty No. 9 is $30 at retail. I can't see this game not also being $30 as both a digital game and a retail game.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Also: what the hell's taking so long for this update? It's been way more than 12 hours since we hit the last stretch goal. And this isn't the first day where pledges were coming in at break neck speed, they knew we were hitting this days ago. Fan gamer is dropping the ball here.

You made that post at 12:00 noon, that means the stretch goal was hit in the middle of the night on a holiday. So of course it didn't get updated immediately.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Those complaining about the slow updates... How about you take a seat back and relax and do something else instead of neurotically refreshing every hour and just growing more impatient? It's really not a big deal at all.

 

[georly]

How is $40 overpriced for a $5 million+ budget game? That's quite a bit higher budget than most $40 3DS games, not to mention there are a TON of $60 games on console digital download stores.

5 million is peanuts for a video game. It's really tough to sell a side-scrolling platformer/action game for a lot of money anymore. Also, what I'm asking is - are there any 60 dollar games on the digital download store that is *DOWNLOAD ONLY* and never had a retail release? (this point is kinda moot since I didn't realize this game isn't digital only)

But it's not digital-only.

My mistake. You're correct. Still don't think it'll be a 60 dollar game, but it's certainly possible, I guess. Even nintendo isn't making 60 dollar 2.5D sidescrolling games anymore. I just don't think that price point makes sense anymore, even though I totally think it's worth it.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Mighty No. 9 is $30 at retail. I can't see this game not also being $30 as both a digital game and a retail game.

Might No 9 only has what, 9 or 10 levels? That's quite a lot less content than a decent Metroidvania, particularly one that is going to be larger than any previous Igavania game ever made. And that fits Mighty No. 9's budget which was far lower than this game's budget. Bloodstained should definitely be more expensive than Mighty No. 9 based on the budget and amount of content.

 

[theSlacker]

Those complaining about the slow updates... How about you take a seat back and relax and do something else instead of neurotically refreshing every hour and just growing more impatient? It's really not a big deal at all.

Spoiler

no

 

[FlashbladeNeo]

Those complaining about the slow updates... How about you take a seat back and relax and do something else instead of neurotically refreshing every hour and just growing more impatient? It's really not a big deal at all.

Not complaining

I'm on the, can't wait to see what it is and the reaction side, not the "why isn't it updated yet" side.

 

[Toad.T]

Also, what I'm asking is - are there any 60 dollar games on the digital download store that is *DOWNLOAD ONLY* and never had a retail release? (this point is kinda moot since I didn't realize this game isn't digital only)

Some of the Bandai/Namco Anime license games in NA. (Like Pirate Warriors 1/2 and the Saint Seiya game.)

 

[Delusibeta]

I'd still say quantity of backers is more important than amount of money backed. Once this game is out of the kickstarting phase, it'll be a $30 downloadable title. The rabid fans are paying, on average, way more than that. Once this goes commercial, I wonder if the remaining sales can make up for the investor's '90%'

Historically, it largely depends on the size of the Kickstarter. As a general rule of thumb, the number of post-KS sales is proportional to the size of the Kickstarter.

Some quick and dirty post-KS estimates to illustrate, using Steam Spy's figures, assuming all backers activated their keys on Steam and assuming that everyone bought the game on Steam (so consider all of these underestimates):

Broken Age ~160k
Pillars of Eternity ~300k
Wasteland 2 ~350k.

As you can see, even with caveats that they're deliberate underestimates, they've all done pretty damn well post-KS.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

You made that post at 12:00 noon, that means the stretch goal was hit in the middle of the night on a holiday. So of course it didn't get updated immediately.

True, except this game is being developed in Japan. I know Fangamer is involved in some degree but Japan is leading this and midnight for us was noon for them and it was not a holiday.

Whatever the reason, they are taking too long.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

No idea if the post they made on Tumblr pertains to all updates or just "official" ones, but apparently they'll send out updates every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday from now on.

I'm hoping that's just for the grand scale updates rather than general maintenance as it's pretty ridiculous as is with how slow they've been approaching things. They got a bit better after the start, but now it's essentially as slow if not slower than the campaign launch.

It's 3pm where I'm at. The last goal was reached late last night so it's been at least closer to 16 hours. This is far slower than they ever were at the start of the campaign. And back then money was coming in so quickly I know keeping up with shit must've been difficult but now? They've been gathering $40-50k daily (a far cry from the $1,000,000 they got on the first day) and had time to prepare.

 

[Sciz]

I'd love to know metrics for other KS games after launch. What percent of total consumers came from KS vs post KS. Is KS 10% of lifetime sales? 50%? Does genre/developer legacy affect it? Etc etc.

If this one ends at something like 50k... are there going to be another 200k+ out there?

A few examples real quick:

Shovel Knight had 14,749 backers and had sold 300k copies as of early December.
Pillars of Eternity had 73,986 backers, and SteamSpy estimates it's moved around 360k copies.
Planetary Annihilation's gone from 44,162 backers to an SS estimate of 720k.

edit: beaten a bit, but you get the idea. The people are out there.

 

[georly]

Some of the Bandai/Namco Anime license games in NA. (Like Pirate Warriors 1/2 and the Saint Seiya game.)

But those all had physical releases in at least one region, no? I guess it doesn't matter since this game is getting a physical release anyway. I misunderstood and thought physical was only for kickstarter.

Historically, it largely depends on the size of the Kickstarter. As a general rule of thumb, the number of post-KS sales is proportional to the size of the Kickstarter.

Some quick and dirty post-KS estimates to illustrate, using Steam Spy's figures, assuming all backers activated their keys on Steam and assuming that everyone bought the game on Steam (so consider all of these underestimates):

Broken Age ~160k
Pillars of Eternity ~300k
Wasteland 2 ~350k.

As you can see, even with caveats that they're deliberate underestimates, they've all done pretty damn well post-KS.

Good to know. I'd love it if this game did as well as pillars or better. This game also has the benefit of being console-friendly (the genre traditionally came from consoles) and I imagine it will do really well on consoles. Some games, like broken age, are probably skewed more toward the PC crowd, despite also releasing on consoles.

A few examples real quick:

Shovel Knight had 14,749 backers and had sold 300k copies as of early December.
Pillars of Eternity had 73,986 backers, and SteamSpy estimates it's moved around 360k copies.
Planetary Annihilation's gone from 44,162 backers to an SS estimate of 720k.

edit: beaten a bit, but you get the idea. The people are out there.

Thanks! I think shovel knight is a bit of an outlier though, as it picked up a lot of steam AFTER the kickstarter. It had a relatively small campaign compared to how famous it has become. I think that's partly because of nintendo helping to promote the game (heck, they even streamed gameplay during the smash bros 3DS tournament at comiccon last year)

 

[Rymuth]

.

.

That was quite educating. Cheers to you both.

 

[Theonik]

How is $40 overpriced for a $5 million+ budget game? That's quite a bit higher budget than most $40 3DS games, not to mention there are a TON of $60 games on console digital download stores.

Because lol 2D. People have very weird expectations when it comes to the 'value' of a game. In a sense the attachment people have to the $60 pricetags is partially to blame as pretty much anything that isn't a $60m AAAA game doesn't feel justified to cost anywhere near as much.

Also people complained about handheld games too being too expensive. It's just an issue of perception, to play the devil's advocate, even in cases like this one where people know how much money the game 'costs' that doesn't really factor much into their value calculations.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Not complaining

I'm on the, can't wait to see what it is and the reaction side, not the "why isn't it updated yet" side.

Well, my post literally starts with "to those complaining"...

 

[Christian]

I love when history proves you correct. Harmony of Dissonance is sitting at a pretty 87 on MetaCritic. Almost 13 years ago, I wrote:

"Even though Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance suffers from some flaws, it's still more playable than a majority of the portable software currently on the market and worth a look for gamers starving for an action/RPG that'll provide around 10 hours of gameplay. People looking for the second coming of Alucard, though, will be in for a disappointment."

And gave the game a 5/10, five being average. Boy, did the small amount of people that read that website howl about it. Now, everyone recognizes it as an incredibly weak entry in the series.

 

[hawk2025]

I love when history proves you correct. Harmony of Dissonance is sitting at a pretty 87 on MetaCritic. Almost 13 years ago, I wrote:



And gave the game a 5/10, five being average. Boy, did the small amount of people that read that website howl about it. Now, everyone recognizes it as an incredibly weak entry in the series.

lol, I most certainly don't.

HoD is fantastic.

 

[FlashbladeNeo]

It's 3pm where I'm at. The last goal was reached late last night so it's been at least closer to 16 hours. This is far slower than they ever were at the start of the campaign. And back then money was coming in so quickly I know keeping up with shit must've been difficult but now? They've been gathering $40-50k daily (a far cry from the $1,000,000 they got on the first day) and had time to prepare.

Also, what do you do when you smash thru all the stretch goals.

You want to create more, but you need time to come up with ones that are fun, doable and won't impact the main game anymore than the first set.
It's not as simple as photoshopping in a "funded" and putting another set of goals if you thought everything you put into the preproduction of the game was already asking too much.

They obviously didn't think we would reach the basement so soon. We smashed thru the stretch goals so fast, that we didn't even need their mirror item to view the upcoming goals.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I love when history proves you correct. Harmony of Dissonance is sitting at a pretty 87 on MetaCritic. Almost 13 years ago, I wrote:

And gave the game a 5/10, five being average. Boy, did the small amount of people that read that website howl about it. Now, everyone recognizes it as an incredibly weak entry in the series.

I have no stake in the argument, here.

But I've been following this game since it was a tagged as a rumor with a link to a teaser site, and it's been filled with lots saying they really like HoD.

 

[ShogunDarius]

24 hour update $2,733,348 22:15 26/05 up $52,023 Total $593030

 

[Crocodile]

True, except this game is being developed in Japan. I know Fangamer is involved in some degree but Japan is leading this and midnight for us was noon for them and it was not a holiday.

Whatever the reason, they are taking too long.

Fangamer are the ones doing the Kickstarter updates so it runs on a PST schedule. They might have to check in with Japan but we know the entire "team" have weekly meetings (Ben Judd has been posting in the comments section saying as much) so I'm sure some things are planned in advance. Since this update is likely to be a big one and they have to get their graphic artists to work (wish they chose a format that was easier to update than the 8-bit castle and the achievement chart but whatever) things will take time. Specifcally, this was posted like 30 min ago on the tumblr:

We’re still checking everyone’s comments as we work behind the scenes on our next update, which should be ready tonight! Although we’ve been working these past few days, the rest of the business world has just gotten back from a 3-day weekend, so it takes a little time. Thanks for your patience!

So go do something productive and come back later

 

[Mak]

EGM gave Harmony of Dissonance a score of 9.5, 10, 9.5 with a Gold award.

"The perfect mix of action and exploration keeps you constantly coming back for more in hopes of opening up more the castle map and beefing up your character. It's so addictive that I couldn't put it down.

Boss Battles are way too easy, and the music took quite a hit from the incredible tunes of the last game. But on the whole, this is one superb game. If you're a fan of the Castlevania series (or side-scrollers in general) you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not picking up Harmony as soon as possible. It's one of the best GBA games so far."

"Circle of the Moon was a really good game, but Harmony of Dissonance is great. I haven't been this into a Castlevania since Symphony of the Night. That's saying a lot."

"Konami condensed everything that's so great about Symphony of the Night into a hand-held game"​

Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance on Wii U - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smW_oZJ3RfY
Japanese GBA trailer - https://youtu.be/zfbTtA94jPM

Gamespot interview with Igarashi - http://www.gamespot.com/articles/tgs-2002-castlevania-qanda/1100-2880807/

HoD was the first followup to SoTN by staff from SoTN and from Bloodlines on Game Boy Advance hardware. It's like a lite version of SoTN focusing on the action and exploring the huge map of the castle, and you can move very quickly by dashing with L or R. The 8 bit style soundtrack is reminiscent of the NES games with a good amount of bass if played on the right GBA hardware, and was downgraded to the GBC chip to get the graphics closer to the quality of SoTN on Playstation. It follows up as a sequel storywise to Castlevania 2 and I like how the castle is in a weird, chaotic state, that's even worse than SoTN, because of the status of Dracula in the game's plot.

If you prefer the linear Castlevania games like Rondo of Blood or the NES games, Harmony of Dissonance is a good Metroidvania to play because it focuses on whip wielding Belmont with limited magical abilities fighting a lot of bosses and enemies over a huge castle that you can traverse very fast.

The boss rush mode has a nice bonus character if you use the Konami code before the title screen.

Circle of the Moon has really good level design and feels more Metroid-like than the IGAvanias with the layout of the castle and the way you acquire abilities and tons of breakable walls, and even has a section where you freeze enemies to reach an area. The music is great arranging older Castlevania themes, but the graphics and animation take a hit.

I didn't finish Aria of Sorrow (3rd GBA game), but that and Dawn of Sorrow (DS) come close to SoTN.

*edit: In the Castlevania Chronicles interview with IGA, he mentioned staff from SoTN and Rondo were working on the next Castlevania, that I assumed was HoD, but it looks like it was just the chief programmer who had "Special Thanks" in Rondo. The director and planner were both from Bloodlines though.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Speaking of GBA Vania I just reached Drac in circle of the moon.
First form was an elaborate bluff to lower my guard for the shit kicking his final form is giving me, and by shit kicking I mean how do I avoid these incredibly damaging meteors outside blind luck?!

 

[Cheerilee]

The 8 bit style soundtrack is reminiscent of the NES games with a good amount of bass if played on the right GBA hardware,

Circle of the Moon spoiled everyone (and ruined things for everyone making GBA games, including themselves).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4fpRkdErU4

 

[Valkyri von Thanatos]

Definitely spoiling in terms of sound quality, but the music is just ripped from Rondo. I've started the game recently (like 5 days ago) and initially found the music to be pretty good. But the lack of variety in the number of tracks has definitely taken its toll. The music is still good, just as more and more time passes I get more and more appreciation for Symphony of the Night's OST.